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Sheesh, I cringe at the topics picked (no offense) but is it possible to get some top 5 categories that involve TF fiction, the cartoons, comics or TF characters themselves ? All the recent top 5 categories just seem to be personal glorification or denouncing of various figures. Switch it up, try something new, it wont hurt.

On topic I cant think of many molds that havent already been named. The botcon kup/movie crankcase/cybertron red alert mold comes to mind. What I find funny is that this issue seems to be isolated to only hasbro produced figures.

How about super fire convoy?

I still really like the movie Megatron figures especially that RotF tank mode. Any jet Transformer with the face visible underneath bugs me, almost as much as the fact most of those jet TFs have most of the torso and arms showing off in jet mode (again another reason why I love the movie Starscream Deluxe and leader figs)

Anyways, was it in Gobots where the red car guy (turbo?) had his head visible under the car mode actually in the cartoon? And Cy-Kill was always looking up talking in his bike mode (making his head looking really bendable). So did Scooter I think. Silly Gobots. So many reasons why Transformers trounced it.

Ya know when you go to your kitchen and you want to make a sandwich and you forgot you used all the peanut butter last time so you're just scraping the jar for any little bit of peanut butter? That's what this weeks top five really feels like. Just scraping the bottom of the jar.

Yeah, I gotta pick on RoTF Leader Megatron as well. He shouldn't be on this list, he was designed with his head showing, it was visible during the movie prior to the forest fight, it kinda reminded me of Daniel in the exo-suit after he transformed on Junkion.

Rated X wrote:Sheesh, I cringe at the topics picked (no offense) but is it possible to get some top 5 categories that involve TF fiction, the cartoons, comics or TF characters themselves ? All the recent top 5 categories just seem to be personal glorification or denouncing of various figures. Switch it up, try something new, it wont hurt.

On topic I cant think of many molds that havent already been named. The botcon kup/movie crankcase/cybertron red alert mold comes to mind. What I find funny is that this issue seems to be isolated to only hasbro produced figures.

Since Seibertron is big on galleries, I figured it made sense I make as much use of them as possible. Also, I personally see Toys to be the central aspect of the Transformers brand and what I am most knowledgeable of, and that is a definitive bias on my part. So I have asked some experts in the TF fiction to help out in fiction based lists. But yes, once this VHS topic is done (after the next list), I will give something related to the fiction, thanks for the encouragement

And on the note that the vhs issue is more present in Hasbro figures, I never noticed it, but you are totally right. The list which shows how a robot head can be well implemented in alt mode has half of them being Takara produced figures. I guess it stems from Takara starting out by having a greater emphasis on disguise and a perfect Alt Mode, in G1, and thus has kept that notion in their later lines. Like Beast Wars Neo, for instance, which was a bit too much about a perfect disguise at the risk of a shellformer.

Anyways, good catch!

omega666 wrote:Really? These? How about these...

Do you allow me to use this pic for another list?

Randomhero wrote: That's what this weeks top five really feels like. Just scraping the bottom of the jar.

There is a thread for list recommendations, please let us know what you would like to see in these lists http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/master-list-for-top-5-best-transformers-lists-first-post-always-updated--t103024.php

No Megabolt Megatron? His alt mode is literally a head, and while that's not in the spirit of the list to warrant inclusion, that's just too excellent not to bring up!

ScottyP wrote:No Megabolt Megatron? His alt mode is literally a head, and while that's not in the spirit of the list to warrant inclusion, that's just too excellent not to bring up!

I was going to say that, but now I'll just mock you for it instead.

It's already been stated in a reply, but I'm gonna second it. You can't count ROTF Megatron, because you could clearly see his head in the movie. The toy is accurate to the movie, including the panels that cover part of his face

Envisaged0ne wrote:It's already been stated in a reply, but I'm gonna second it. You can't count ROTF Megatron, because you could clearly see his head in the movie. The toy is accurate to the movie, including the panels that cover part of his face

Of course I can count him. It is a toy based on a terrible design filled with VHS. A lame design will stay lame and the toy brings that out even more. By your definition, no one should mess with G1 Ironhide because his first appearance in the fiction looks just like his toy. Or better yet, everyone should be ok with them because G1 Ironhide (and rathcet) are actually from another toyline which didnt need faces. But people still didnt like them. I don't see how this is any different.



A toy shouldnt be forgiven because there is a reason for it being poorly designed, that makes it far too easy to forgive hasbro and the movie designers, who collaborate on this stuff. Why cant his inclusion on the list symbolize my disaproval of the design it is based on? My reason for disliking it remains the same and we are all still stuck with a VHS filled toy.

Since technically every toy is based on a design, it is far more objective and fair for me to instead look at a finished product and see if I think it looks good or not. For instance, do you think these look good or bad? (I will provide my answers for now)


Transformers G1 1985 Omega Supreme Gallery

looks fine


Transformers Cybertron Starscream Gallery

looks fine



looks bad


Anyone is free to reply with their own top 5 list.

Sure, you can see his head, but its at least in the cab. I'd rank RID Supermode Prime's cranium or Hot Spot (the new one) over Cyb Prime. At keast Host Spot's Defensor head sorta flips over itself...

For me this list begins and almost ends with Energon Ironhide. I hate that toy design.

I hope the good list includes G1 Jetfire and Generations Scourge. Scourge was literally designed to include that as a feature.

And to whoever mentioned Omega Supreme, dude's head is literally a turret. If anything it's more like an alt mode part being visible in robot mode than the other way around. Guy doesn't even have a face at all.

Optimum Supreme wrote:For me this list begins and almost ends with Energon Ironhide. I hate that toy design.

I hope the good list includes G1 Jetfire and Generations Scourge. Scourge was literally designed to include that as a feature.

And to whoever mentioned Omega Supreme, dude's head is literally a turret. If anything it's more like an alt mode part being visible in robot mode than the other way around. Guy doesn't even have a face at all.

Oh man, I cant wait till 2 weeks.

Anyways, yeah my thoughts on Omega Supreme are the same. I also find it similar to my thoughts on Swoop designs. I see it more as a pterodon crest in robot mode and less as a robot head in beast mode. It's a fine line but I find it interesting to discuss.

I personally don't find the FOC seekers heads visible at all. Sure they kind of stick out when viewing them directly from above but it's not as obvious as you're making it out to be that those black cubes are their robot heads.

Also can we really count a head that's on the bottom of a car since nobody's going to be displaying their cars upside down.

G1 Jetfire, using the Bandai Macross VF-1 mold should be on this list. His head was in plain view on the belly of the plane as a "turret".

Optimum Supreme wrote:I hope the good list includes G1 Jetfire and Generations Scourge. Scourge was literally designed to include that as a feature.

G1 Jetfire may be a bit of an odd duck in that his toy design is so obviously completely divorced from Skyfire's cartoon model... But I was actually thinking of that toy myself earlier after reading this list of an example of what would be a good visible head!

It was quite accurate to the animation of the show that toy actually came from, and it was even featured prominently on at least one occasion in that show. (When Hikaru/Rick was rescuing Misa/Lisa from Alaska Base, while his Valkyrie was in fighter mode he used the lasers on the sides of the head to blow a hole in a wall.)

On the original toy, which was the one used to make G1 Jetfire, it was maybe a little too prominent... But it was forgivable as an 80's toy design. (And heck, over all it is still a great toy that holds up today!)



On a more modern take of a toy of this design, they got it perfect! The head is still there, and still clearly visible, but is a bit more subtle about being so:



And it can still be pulled down and rotated if you need to use it as a laser turret!



I can understand why... I mean, it would have been too expensive. And it would have not been a child safe toy... And it wouldn't have appealed as much to Skyfire fans... But part of me thinks it is a shame we couldn't have gotten that toy as a modern Jetfire. (I've seen a few great fan repaints out there, though!)

Edit:

Boxkicker wrote:G1 Jetfire, using the Bandai Macross VF-1 mold should be on this list. His head was in plain view on the belly of the plane as a "turret".

Ha ha. Your post must have been made while I was taking my sweet-arse time writing why he was an example of a good visible head. I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

I understand your reasoning, but most people consider bad v.h.s. as sloppy transformations where the head is clearly visible in the alt mode, when it shouldn't be. Where it ruins the aesthetic look of the vehicle, because you can see blatant robot parts. For ROTF megatron, it was intentional, and I personally don't mind the visual they were going for. I, personally, don't count it, because it wasn't just sloppy, lazy transformation that kept the head visible. It achieved the look they were going for. But again, that's just my opinion

I thought that Ironhide's visible head was intentional. In one episode of Transformers: Energon, Ironhide was shooting at a cloaked Starscream and his entire head was visibly shown atop his vehicle mode.

OptimalOptimus2 wrote:I thought that Ironhide's visible head was intentional. In one episode of Transformers: Energon, Ironhide was shooting at a cloaked Starscream and his entire head was visibly shown atop his vehicle mode.

Intentional doesn't make it any better, in fact it just screams "We can't be bothered to make it remotely decent".

The Beast Machines Vehicons... I can only think of three examples where the same head is used in both modes:

Tank Drone and Generations Tankor


Motorcycle Drone


But this one does suffer from VHS because the vehicle mode uses a different head:

Thrust


My honorable mention

Figures with the head inside the cabin, cockpit etc. (RiD X-Brawn, Armada Sideswipe, RotF Breakaway) would fall under "Transformers who pilot themselves" and is a separate Top 5 list IIRC.

May I take this moment to point out that I always pictured a giant, pigtailed trucker behind the wheel of G2 Optimus Prime?


(You really can't see it in any of the photos..)

OptimalOptimus2 wrote:I thought that Ironhide's visible head was intentional. In one episode of Transformers: Energon, Ironhide was shooting at a cloaked Starscream and his entire head was visibly shown atop his vehicle mode.

Sure, that is why I believe the VHS topic would begin and end with toys and their design rather than explain why it is ok for one and not for the other. It can get more complicated that way and arguments end up being void. For example, I couldn't fault any Cybertron toy for being bad since someone would say it looks just like the show (when in reality that show is just a hair from being a stop motion show using the toys).






So it's best to say if we think an exposed head works or not, which is what you awesome people have been doing, so thanks! And thanks for getting back to me Envisaged0ne, I greatly value your input and it will help give a more rounded take on VHS to anyone who stumbles upon this list and it's comments in the years to come.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Figures with the head inside the cabin, cockpit etc. (RiD X-Brawn, Armada Sideswipe, RotF Breakaway) would fall under "Transformers who pilot themselves" and is a separate Top 5 list IIRC.

Figures who pilot themselves in that way would be a good list! I'd say, though, that to be a good figure of that type, the head has to be upside up inside the cabin. (Sorry, Universe Inferno mold!)

Va'al wrote:May I take this moment to point out that I always pictured a giant, pigtailed trucker behind the wheel of G2 Optimus Prime?

Sorry, I fear I don't quite follow you there. What giant pigtailed trucker are you seeing, exactly?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Figures with the head inside the cabin, cockpit etc. (RiD X-Brawn, Armada Sideswipe, RotF Breakaway) would fall under "Transformers who pilot themselves" and is a separate Top 5 list IIRC.

Yup! Well its more that it falls into well implemented VHS (if it is well implemented turns out there werent enough good ones for a list of their own), just as there were well implemented Shellformers. What I am trying to show is that VHS and Shellforming (and retools and redecos) are simply words to describe and categorize Transformer toys after all the years of their existence, and not necessarily negative. So I give good and bad and encourage you all to participate

Yotsuyasan wrote:

Va'al wrote:May I take this moment to point out that I always pictured a giant, pigtailed trucker behind the wheel of G2 Optimus Prime?

Sorry, I fear I don't quite follow you there. What giant pigtailed trucker are you seeing, exactly?

You need to look at the truck from the low front. The upside down robot head always gave me the idea of a pigtailed driver. I do not expect anyone else to see it.

Va'al wrote:You need to look at the truck from the low front. The upside down robot head always gave me the idea of a pigtailed driver. I do not expect anyone else to see it.

Ah. I was wondering if it was something to do with his in-cabin head, but you threw me off when very specifically stating that you had this problem with G2 Prime. That got me thinking it was something unique to that version of the toy, so I kept trying to figure out, "What does a trailer-mounted sound box have to do with visible heads and pig tailed truckers? And why wouldn't my G1 Prime or my Pepsi Prime have the same issue?

(Well, I guess my G1 Prime wouldn't, since he has a third party Matrix chamber in his chest. But my Pepsi Prime would still be rocking your pig tails!)