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Amazing point Yotsuyasan! I feel the same way. Also, if we can't give Megs any sh!t, than we cant count Thunderblast for being a lazy design either or any other TF that happens to look like what he looks like in his/her fiction. Lazy designs are lazy. Though I am glad they all get some love and can be appreciated in their own way since every TF needs some.

But here is the best part: if we can't count Megatron, than we can't count one of the worst ones ever, Energon Ironhide






Although BM Sivlerbolt is beyond forgiveness since nowhere in his design was his robot head ever between his legs. I dont even know if the toy or animation model came first or what the relationship was since those toys are so different from the show model to the toy.

You know what the sad part is about Energon Ironhide? Except for the visible head, there really isn't anything majorly wrong with him. Nice, chunky alt mode with nice paint and detailing. The transformation's great, simple but not insultingly so. There's fairly good articulation and some hidden gems, like the blaster can peg into the screw hole on the underside of the arms, and a molded interior, even! The superlinx modes aren't too bad, either. Hell, the 'shirt' mode's one of the best of the line!

If it had a sliding flap, or if the head turned around... one tiny thing.

Flashwave wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:How about a VHS of a different order? Everybody's been mentioning Combiner Heads, especially CW Hot Spot's. I'll up them one with this:


RiD 2001 Railspike

This toy doesn't even attempt to hide Rail Racer's head, having it stare at Railspike's crotch instead.

I guess In my head I wrote that off as being more or less like how some transformers have their beast mode had on their chest. But yeah, contrasting that against the cleverly-disguised head of CW Defensor shows that the designs are still evolving.

munkimus prime wrote:Also does Skylinx count?. But I think he has one of the better cases of VHS since you can't actually tell that the cockpit is his robots head.

That's basically what I meant with Defensor, the head's right there but you can't tell it's a head.

Still not fond of Defensor's head. I guess it's "hidden", but I really feel like it's in the way ofg the ladder boom, but eh.

For Sky Lynx, I think he falls under the same category as the Vehicon drones: The head is there, but it does something. Unliek Movie Megs, who's head is sorta hood ornement

I wasn't fond of Defensor's head until after a few minutes of messing with him combined that his head could open up for the bucket in his truck mode.

I personally like the intuitive design of Defensor. The fold up head in a ladder is quite interesting and I like that direction they took. Also, Sky Lynx should not count since his head is his shuttle mode cockpit.

Railbomb wrote:

Flashwave wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:How about a VHS of a different order? Everybody's been mentioning Combiner Heads, especially CW Hot Spot's. I'll up them one with this:


RiD 2001 Railspike

This toy doesn't even attempt to hide Rail Racer's head, having it stare at Railspike's crotch instead.

I guess In my head I wrote that off as being more or less like how some transformers have their beast mode had on their chest. But yeah, contrasting that against the cleverly-disguised head of CW Defensor shows that the designs are still evolving.

munkimus prime wrote:Also does Skylinx count?. But I think he has one of the better cases of VHS since you can't actually tell that the cockpit is his robots head.

That's basically what I meant with Defensor, the head's right there but you can't tell it's a head.

Still not fond of Defensor's head. I guess it's "hidden", but I really feel like it's in the way ofg the ladder boom, but eh.

For Sky Lynx, I think he falls under the same category as the Vehicon drones: The head is there, but it does something. Unliek Movie Megs, who's head is sorta hood ornement

I wasn't fond of Defensor's head until after a few minutes of messing with him combined that his head could open up for the bucket in his truck mode.

I was impressed by that. How many transformers have their heads actually transform rather than just try to hide them (or leave them out in the open)?

Nemesis Primal wrote:
I was impressed by that. How many transformers have their heads actually transform rather than just try to hide them (or leave them out in the open)?

Cyberton Unicron does that too. His head flips and becomes a dish/laser.

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:
I was impressed by that. How many transformers have their heads actually transform rather than just try to hide them (or leave them out in the open)?

Cyberton Unicron does that too. His head flips and becomes a dish/laser.

Technically, it's his collar that becomes the dish/laser, and his head kinda hides behind it.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Railbomb wrote:

Flashwave wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:How about a VHS of a different order? Everybody's been mentioning Combiner Heads, especially CW Hot Spot's. I'll up them one with this:


RiD 2001 Railspike

This toy doesn't even attempt to hide Rail Racer's head, having it stare at Railspike's crotch instead.

I guess In my head I wrote that off as being more or less like how some transformers have their beast mode had on their chest. But yeah, contrasting that against the cleverly-disguised head of CW Defensor shows that the designs are still evolving.

munkimus prime wrote:Also does Skylinx count?. But I think he has one of the better cases of VHS since you can't actually tell that the cockpit is his robots head.

That's basically what I meant with Defensor, the head's right there but you can't tell it's a head.

Still not fond of Defensor's head. I guess it's "hidden", but I really feel like it's in the way ofg the ladder boom, but eh.

For Sky Lynx, I think he falls under the same category as the Vehicon drones: The head is there, but it does something. Unliek Movie Megs, who's head is sorta hood ornement

I wasn't fond of Defensor's head until after a few minutes of messing with him combined that his head could open up for the bucket in his truck mode.

I was impressed by that. How many transformers have their heads actually transform rather than just try to hide them (or leave them out in the open)?

Defensor

Ok i still cant see why galaxy force/cybertron optimus is this praised figure. Dont get me wrong its not a bad figure but its no way the be all end all of transformers. Prime himself has had better figures than that

Megatron Wolf wrote:Ok i still cant see why galaxy force/cybertron optimus is this praised figure. Dont get me wrong its not a bad figure but its no way the be all end all of transformers. Prime himself has had better figures than that

I am actually working on a top 10 Prime list (with other collaborators), and this guy is still coming pretty high up especially in terms of being an homage and original at the same time. Which primes aside from the MP would you place above him?

Well, Energon Ironhide is a good mold aside from the head out in vehicle. In my opinion anyways.

RiddlerJ wrote:Yeah, on a mode that's cybertronian, I don't fret about a visible head. In those cases, the alt mode isn't a disguise, it's just a mode to get around, or fight, or perform some other purpose.

If anything, cockpits or passenger areas on cybertronian forms make less sense. Who are they for? Maybe after they met humanoids, it might make sense to install one but I don't think too many Decepticons would feel the need for one.

This is a fair point. And in point of fact I think it was on the minds of the movie designers too: Why would alien vehicle modes have gratuitous human-scale cockpits/windshields? These are noticeably absent on all Cybertronian altmodes seen onscreen. Working from there, I think this is the actual reason for Megatron's partially-exposed head on his Movie 1 and ROTF bodies: Not "to stick it to the man" (like Will suggested for some reason) but because with the usual "Gratuitous cockpit" convention discarded (eliminating the "See via windshield" method), that's how the movieverse designers decided that Transformers should see to navigate in their Cybertronian altmodes. I don't know that you can really call that lazy.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:In my humble opinion:

1) Having the head designed as part of the vehicle mode should not count. The movie Megs designs are quite cool, especially since he can see everything he demolishes with his own optics. Plus, on the argument of what is the point of transformation, isn't it easier for us to get around on skates or jetpacks? that is the role of his altmode to me.

Yes, particularly in the case of Cybertronian altmodes. Barring a few special cases, every time fiction has tried to pass Cybertronian altmodes off as disguises it's felt super clunky and awkward.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:In my humble opinion:

1) Having the head designed as part of the vehicle mode should not count. The movie Megs designs are quite cool, especially since he can see everything he demolishes with his own optics. Plus, on the argument of what is the point of transformation, isn't it easier for us to get around on skates or jetpacks? that is the role of his altmode to me.

Yes, particularly in the case of Cybertronian altmodes. Barring a few special cases, every time fiction has tried to pass Cybertronian altmodes off as disguises it's felt super clunky and awkward.

Dear goodness, you just quoted me from over 3 years ago, I was trying to remember when I said this

I think Fall of Cybertron did the best with the Cybertronian modes. The rest, just not as good

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

RiddlerJ wrote:Yeah, on a mode that's cybertronian, I don't fret about a visible head. In those cases, the alt mode isn't a disguise, it's just a mode to get around, or fight, or perform some other purpose.

If anything, cockpits or passenger areas on cybertronian forms make less sense. Who are they for? Maybe after they met humanoids, it might make sense to install one but I don't think too many Decepticons would feel the need for one.

This is a fair point. And in point of fact I think it was on the minds of the movie designers too: Why would alien vehicle modes have gratuitous human-scale cockpits/windshields? These are noticeably absent on all Cybertronian altmodes seen onscreen. Working from there, I think this is the actual reason for Megatron's partially-exposed head on his Movie 1 and ROTF bodies: Not "to stick it to the man" (like Will suggested for some reason) but because with the usual "Gratuitous cockpit" convention discarded (eliminating the "See via windshield" method), that's how the movieverse designers decided that Transformers should see to navigate in their Cybertronian altmodes. I don't know that you can really call that lazy.

It may be the way they decided Megatron should see, but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone on Cybertron did it that way. Other than Megatron and maybe Soundwave (we never see him transform in RotF, so I'm not 100% convinced that wasn't meant to be one of the weirdly-shaped robot modes that so many bots from that movie wound up with), we don't really see any Cybertronian vehicle modes.

And the toyline's no help on this: Shockwave and The Fallen both have their heads (or at least faces) hidden in vehicle mode, but neither of them transformed at all in the movies themselves, so I dunno if those were designed for the movies and then just didn't get used, or if Hasbro made them up themselves. Ravage, meanwhile, has toys where his face (or at least his eye) is exposed in vehicle mode, but in the movie he only seems to have his cat mode and the ball Soundwave ejected him in, which may of may not have been something he was inside rather than being him.

Well... Hum...

This should be at the #1 spot.
Star Convoy's base mode. Impossible to be more in-your-face than this. sure, that head could be hidden, but having it this way is the OFFICIAL way.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

RiddlerJ wrote:Yeah, on a mode that's cybertronian, I don't fret about a visible head. In those cases, the alt mode isn't a disguise, it's just a mode to get around, or fight, or perform some other purpose.

If anything, cockpits or passenger areas on cybertronian forms make less sense. Who are they for? Maybe after they met humanoids, it might make sense to install one but I don't think too many Decepticons would feel the need for one.

This is a fair point. And in point of fact I think it was on the minds of the movie designers too: Why would alien vehicle modes have gratuitous human-scale cockpits/windshields? These are noticeably absent on all Cybertronian altmodes seen onscreen. Working from there, I think this is the actual reason for Megatron's partially-exposed head on his Movie 1 and ROTF bodies: Not "to stick it to the man" (like Will suggested for some reason) but because with the usual "Gratuitous cockpit" convention discarded (eliminating the "See via windshield" method), that's how the movieverse designers decided that Transformers should see to navigate in their Cybertronian altmodes. I don't know that you can really call that lazy.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:In my humble opinion:

I agree with this. Which just makes it even more idiotic that Prime in the Bumblebee movie has chest windows already on Cybertron (already looking like the earth truck). Because instead of putting the logic and thought into these things that the previous movies had, the designers here just went "HUUUH G1 RULLLEEEZZ!!!" with it all...

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well... Hum...

This should be at the #1 spot.
Star Convoy's base mode. Impossible to be more in-your-face than this. sure, that head could be hidden, but having it this way is the OFFICIAL way.

Not hugely worse than most Transformer base modes though. Metroplex at least hides his head away like a turtle but it's still a base mode formed as if I was sitting uncomfortably on the floor with my legs spread out, wearing cargo pants with the pockets all turned inside out...