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Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:27 am

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Deadput wrote:I've looked at the design a fair bit and it's just way different from the 2007 one.

If you had to look at it a fair bit to figure that out then it kind of proves my point. If the film really wanted to distance itself, then dont turn him into a camarro.

Any general audience wont care to compare, they'll just see that it connects because its a similar car to the one they remember.

Also, TLK didnt line up with anything and none of us called it a reboot. Bots can come to earth and leave, nothing is set in stone. If anything can be explained in a throwaway line like that then I really dont think this is a hill worth dying on. I dont get the fuss over wanting this to be a reboot when the creators have confirmed it is not.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:30 am

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Deadput wrote:Why should I care if Jazz is in the next film if ultimately he dies as an underdeveloped character in a movie that's already came out?

But wouldnt the idea be that in a prequel you can finally give him some development?
Also, it works both ways, we knew BB would survive this film and yet you still went and watched it. A good film maker and writer can make you care regardless if its a prequel or not.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:38 am

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Ah so this is going to go well I see.

I mean why stick with the continuity that people hate and don't want anymore?

It's going to stab them in the back if they continue to stick with it, then again I'm sure Lorenzo would prefer the franchise to die then ever acknowledge that "his" movies need a fresh start

It also doesn't explain why they cut out the Megatron cameo at all. (The frozen one in Hoover Dam)
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:42 am

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william-james88 wrote:If you had to look at it a fair bit to figure that out then it kind of proves my point. If the film really wanted to distance itself, then dont turn him into a camarro.

I didn't mean that as "I couldn't tell until I looked at it more" the design doesn't even share proportions, the only similarity between the two is the car hood chest and even then it looks more like the TFP character then the 2007 version.

His arms and legs are still the very round and smooth looks the rest of his designs in this film have, he doesn't have door wings in sight.

There are connections to the Bay films but they are so little and none of them explicitly mean this is a prequel for sure, but there are so many other parts of the movie that change the continuity pretty drastically like the ending.

Edit: I have a list of contradictions from the other movies that someone else wrote up

- Designs look different.
- Soundwave and Shockwave sounded different. Not sure how they would go from having legitimate voices to growling monsters in a span of 20ish years.
- Autobots did not arrive on the Earth because of the All Spark, instead, they arrive to regroup. It seems like Earth was just a random planet Optimus chose.
- No mention of Megatron which is strange as S7 mentions they want to catch the Transformers to do experiments on them. Wouldn't they have done experiments on Megatron already? Or wouldn't that have been a point of topic among the government officials?
- Bots did not learn English through the internet. However, this breaks down in the rest of the films too.
- Film implied Bumblebee has never been on Earth before so that throws the whole WWII **** out the window.
- Optimus and Autobots arrive to Earth in the 80's.
- Bumblebee doesn't have the door wings, even when he scans the Camaro. Basically, he doesn't look the same at all.
- Bee went from Skull faced Bee in WWII to cute faced Bee in this film to Skull faced Bee in '07.
- Protoforms aren't a thing anymore. Instead, they arrive in little pods.
- No motive for the Decepticons to get the All Spark to end the war. Instead, Shatter stated the war will end once they kill Prime (and his Autobots) and likely why they wanted to find Prime so badly.
- Bumblebee has an American accent in here and a British accent in '07 film.
- The pods don't seem like they're reusable so it's assumed the Bots don't have a method to leave the planet and arrive again in '07.
- The behind the scenes of the '07 film mentioned Megatron transforms into his protoform mode in the city battle. We see this same mode in the Cybertron flashback from Optimus meaning Cybertron modes and protoform modes are the same thing in the '07 fim. This would mean that when Prime and the Autobots arrived as protoforms in the first movie, they were also in their Cybertronian modes, which is of course different from their Cybertronian modes in this film. Also, we straight up see that Soundwave's Cybertronian mode is completely different in ROTF.
- Cybertron looks completely different.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby DedicatedGhostArt » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:00 am

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I think Travis Knight intended it as a reboot, but all the TF movie vets involved were like "oh no no no! Not our baby!" So Travis had to be more sneaky or something. Plus a full reboot so soon after TLK was probably too risky according to Paramount.

Anyway, prequel, reboot, I don't care. I'm just scared rn that this won't do well enough, and the franchise will be toast. Even our cartoons and new comics are just the same old rehashes of old stories and characters, and even though I wanted the movies to be G1, I want NEW CARTOONS to at LEAST give something else interesting for the brand to hobble on until hopefully a new movie franchise by all new creators (and even oversee-ers) comes about to peak curiosity after some old wounds heal.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:06 am

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SillyMcGilly wrote:I think Travis Knight intended it as a reboot, but all the TF movie vets involved were like "oh no no no! Not our baby!" So Travis had to be more sneaky or something. Plus a full reboot so soon after TLK was probably too risky according to Paramount.

Anyway, prequel, reboot, I don't care. I'm just scared rn that this won't do well enough, and the franchise will be toast. Even our cartoons and new comics are just the same old rehashes of old stories and characters, and even though I wanted the movies to be G1, I want NEW CARTOONS to at LEAST give something else interesting for the brand to hobble on until hopefully a new movie franchise by all new creators (and even oversee-ers) comes about to peak curiosity after some old wounds heal.


As it appears here that while the film isn't done making money or anything it's not looking good.

http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/12/23/tran ... -in-379582

So Bumblebee loses to the lamest well known super hero. (I mean if Aquaman is a really good movie then that's fine and all, I just think Aquaman as a character is sort of lame, as in the dorkish way not that Aquaman is a bad character)

I'm sure Hasbro and Paramount will take the wrong lesson from here and find a way to screw it up even more.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby 15ngcs1 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:15 am

Deadput wrote:
SillyMcGilly wrote:I think Travis Knight intended it as a reboot, but all the TF movie vets involved were like "oh no no no! Not our baby!" So Travis had to be more sneaky or something. Plus a full reboot so soon after TLK was probably too risky according to Paramount.

Anyway, prequel, reboot, I don't care. I'm just scared rn that this won't do well enough, and the franchise will be toast. Even our cartoons and new comics are just the same old rehashes of old stories and characters, and even though I wanted the movies to be G1, I want NEW CARTOONS to at LEAST give something else interesting for the brand to hobble on until hopefully a new movie franchise by all new creators (and even oversee-ers) comes about to peak curiosity after some old wounds heal.


As it appears here that while the film isn't done making money or anything it's not looking good.

http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/12/23/tran ... -in-379582

So Bumblebee loses to the lamest well known super hero. (I mean if Aquaman is a really good movie then that's fine and all, I just think Aquaman as a character is sort of lame, as in the dorkish way not that Aquaman is a bad character)

I'm sure Hasbro and Paramount will take the wrong lesson from here and find a way to screw it up even more.


Now we just need to look at the total gross. Word of mouth can help a lot like it did for The Greatest Showman last year. Losing to Aquaman is obvious, just see how many movie theatres were showing Aquaman compared to showing Bumblebee. Bumblebee has better critical acclaim than Aquaman. Word of mouth can really help bring up the total gross of Bumblebee. Plus having critical acclaim is already a big win for the Transformers franchise. Sometimes you've got to look on the bright side.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:22 am

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15ngcs1 wrote:Now we just need to look at the total gross. Word of mouth can help a lot like it did for The Greatest Showman last year. Losing to Aquaman is obvious, just see how many movie theatres were showing Aquaman compared to showing Bumblebee. Bumblebee has better critical acclaim than Aquaman. Word of mouth can really help bring up the total gross of Bumblebee. Plus having critical acclaim is already a big win for the Transformers franchise. Sometimes you've got to look on the bright side.


While I do agree that good word of mouth will help, I don't think it will do amazing either, not a bomb/flop but barely meeting expectations.

15ngcs1 wrote:Sometimes you've got to look on the bright side.


That has never helped me once, not for life and not in regards as a fan of a franchise like this or Star Wars, Mass Effect, Halo, etc
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby DedicatedGhostArt » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:32 am

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If Bumblebee does poorly, it will truly be our darkest hour in this franchise.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:32 am

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SillyMcGilly wrote:If Bumblebee does poorly, it will truly be our darkest hour in this franchise.

You mean darker than that time in the 90's when there was NOTHING Transformers related?

Yeah, okay ...
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby DedicatedGhostArt » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:04 am

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Burn wrote:
SillyMcGilly wrote:If Bumblebee does poorly, it will truly be our darkest hour in this franchise.

You mean darker than that time in the 90's when there was NOTHING Transformers related?

Yeah, okay ...

Well, it was more of a pause of innactivity before Beast Wars, but.. I guess technically?

But since the movies, a whole lot of the brand split into Paramount. If Paramount fails..

Let me put it like this: The bigger they are, the harder they fall. When you take into consideration how many people now are into the brand because of the movies and not the shows or toys first and foremost, and how the movies are now what sort of drive the brand's visibility to be able to make so many successful toy lines, they would lose a HUGE chunk of audience if the movies suddenly stopped. And I'm afraid that so far it seems brilliantly made Transformers shows like Animated and Prime are kind of a lost art.

Everything now is about WINDBLADE and BAMBLEBEE and it all looks the same. So if the movies went under and the shows don't improve, we could very well end up in a worse spot than at least before 2007 when creativity and risk taking was the norm instead of MOOR OF THE SAME CAST UNTIL WE DIE. After so long of non-G1 movies it feels right for them to now be so G1, but the cartoons all look the SAME. I want Cliffjumper and Mirage as main characters again without dying immediately! Ffs..
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Ironhidensh » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:03 am

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I'm starting to look at this not as a reboot or prequel, but as a nice solid retcon.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:41 am

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Ironhidensh wrote:I'm starting to look at this not as a reboot or prequel, but as a nice solid retcon.

Yeah, that sounds exactly like what it is. And I am hapy for it, because the TLK retcon was dumber than a bag of bricks.

Anyways, just so we have all the facts in this thread too, here are the 2 articles where Travis Knight confirms that the film adheres to the Bay continuity.

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... gns/42633/

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... rse/42639/

That later one specifically says that Megatron is on earth during the events of Bumblebee. Also, about that bit, the decepticons only figured out where Bee was due to a power surge. If Megatron is under ice and not active, then it makes sense that he would not be noticed. But I dont think anyone cared enough aout that part as long as he wasnt in the film.

And lest we forget Bumblebee is a Bay film (literally, Bay's company produced it)
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:16 am

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Also someone mentioned the humans contacting shatter and Dropkick and saying its first contact...well its hard to contact someone frozen in ice isn't it ;) I don't see as a contradiction at all. As for why they didn't sense all spark or megs...they only found them in the first movie because Frenzy told them exactly where to look. There is a line about the dam blocking radiation afterall.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:34 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:Also someone mentioned the humans contacting shatter and Dropkick and saying its first contact...well its hard to contact someone frozen in ice isn't it ;) I don't see as a contradiction at all. As for why they didn't sense all spark or megs...they only found them in the first movie because Frenzy told them exactly where to look. There is a line about the dam blocking radiation afterall.


Yeah to block the signals from the outside, but Shatter and Dropkick were in the Dam not to mention they were given access to everything Sector 7 had (and created the internet out of it) there is literally no reason neither of the two wouldn't have at least found something.


william-james88 wrote:Yeah, that sounds exactly like what it is. And I am hapy for it, because the TLK retcon was dumber than a bag of bricks.

Anyways, just so we have all the facts in this thread too, here are the 2 articles where Travis Knight confirms that the film adheres to the Bay continuity.

That later one specifically says that Megatron is on earth during the events of Bumblebee. Also, about that bit, the decepticons only figured out where Bee was due to a power surge. If Megatron is under ice and not active, then it makes sense that he would not be noticed. But I dont think anyone cared enough aout that part as long as he wasnt in the film.

And lest we forget Bumblebee is a Bay film (literally, Bay's company produced it)


I have read the articles, all I have seen is that they say the movie is a prequel, nothing about the film never being a reboot.

I know it's a "prequel" for now but that doesn't mean Paramount/Hasbro can announce in a few months that the film is a reboot.

Sector 7 found the Allspark in 1913, and Megatron and transferred to where Hoover Dam would be in the 1930s (This is in the film and not expanded material) so they had them both at this time.

It's at the very least a plot hole, or maybe Shatter and Dropkick are idiots and that's saying a lot considering every other Decepticon in the movies aside maybe Barricade are even more stupid.

Sure hope the next couple movies can explain why everyone suddenly changed aesthetic so drastically and why all the Decepticons got brain damage. (Seriously despite doing "nothing" in both films Shockwave somehow is more competent standing around and saying one order compared to whatever the hell he even did in DOTM)


If they use the next films to make them go tie themselves to that convoluted and hate continuity then that's just going to kill the franchise and cause more bombs/flops which leads to Hasbro losing more money which leads to budget cuts which hurts the franchise and gets the fans pissed because the quality of toys and media go down which leads to even less profit.

I do love the Bay films but it's been 10 years, 5 movies and I don't want to go back to that formula because it doesn't work anymore and I'm bored of it.


Using the film to retcon the hell out of everything and then use the next films to retcon even more is probably the most idiotic and convoluted thing they could do and will ultimately hurt the films because you restrict creativity (Like how Travis couldn't do that Cybertron Megatron scene) and what you can do with the stories such as you can't use the Matrix, you can't use Megatron on Earth because he's frozen till 2007, anyone who shows up on Earth that isn't the characters from the Bay films are obviously going to die because where the heck were they that whole time otherwise? How did Optimus leave Earth in the first place and why leave only to come back 20 years later for a completely unrelated goal? What happened to establishing a base in Bumblebee? If there was a base and those 7 other Autobots on Earth where were they during their operations in Nest?

So many questions, why can't anyone actually check your previous films first to check the details so you know your not contradicting things!
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:49 am

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I don't know, it seems very easy to say that s7 kept things from them ;) I mean you always keep aces up your sleeve. Also the asethic isn't a big deal as it's a way to sell more toys :lol: jokes aside, this movies status has already been decided. Let's just see what happens. You're also over-egging the impact the movies have as Paramount pays hasbro for the license, Bumblebee flops will hurt paramount more than hasbro. The toyline will be unaffected...if you want to worry about anything, watch the price of oil as that will cause mors disruptions.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:55 am

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And for all we know, that lab that S7 let Shatter and Dropkick into could have been closer to the dam's exterior while Megatron and the AllSpark were both much deeper within the very heart of the dam, keeping them both well hidden and masked from the two Decepticons' scanners.

Besides, the two were specifically searching for Autobot energy signatures, not those of their own kind.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:56 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:I don't know, it seems very easy to say that s7 kept things from them ;) I mean you always keep aces up your sleeve. Also the asethic isn't a big deal as it's a way to sell more toys :lol: jokes aside, this movies status has already been decided. Let's just see what happens. You're also over-egging the impact the movies have as Paramount pays hasbro for the license, Bumblebee flops will hurt paramount more than hasbro. The toyline will be unaffected...if you want to worry about anything, watch the price of oil as that will cause mors disruptions.

I'm just really worried about Hasbro/Paramount passing up a good opportunity to start fresh, when I get worried I get panicky and that effects my posts.

Hollywood has rebooted super hero movies like Batman and Spiderman when their not doing well and it was for the better most of the time (When it wasn't they rebooted it again, not try to salvage it)

Like wouldn't it make everyone (not literally but a grand majority) happy if they started fresh?

Hell G1 didn't last as long as the Bayverse has back in the 80's so it's sort of the longest non stop running part of the brand.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:58 am

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Sabrblade wrote:Besides, the two were specifically searching for Autobot energy signatures, not those of their own kind.

What would the difference even be, their the same species right?

A smart person would be looking for any abnormal signals, not just one specific one.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:06 am

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Deadput wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Besides, the two were specifically searching for Autobot energy signatures, not those of their own kind.

What would the difference even be, their the same species right?

A smart person would be looking for any abnormal signals, not just one specific one.
Countless previous series have shown the differing factions to have their own respectively unique energy signatures. Beast Wars showed Predacon technology programmed to target Maximal energy signatures, and Beast Machines especially made use of this as the Vehicons would detect Maximal energy signatures whenever the Maximals would enter robot mode, hence Rattrap eventually creating scrambled field generators to mask their energy signatures in robot mode.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:14 am

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
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Sabrblade wrote:
Deadput wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Besides, the two were specifically searching for Autobot energy signatures, not those of their own kind.

What would the difference even be, their the same species right?

A smart person would be looking for any abnormal signals, not just one specific one.
Countless previous series have shown the differing factions to have their own respectively unique energy signatures. Beast Wars showed Predacon technology programmed to target Maximal energy signatures, and Beast Machines especially made use of this as the Vehicons would detect Maximal energy signatures whenever the Maximals would enter robot mode, hence Rattrap eventually creating scrambled field generators to mask their energy signatures in robot mode.


I guess I just overthink things, continuity errors and retcons is a thing that just bugs me.

Unless it's correcting/fixing or adding something to it I find the concept of "retcons" to be absolutely lazy as a writing thing.

I feel like when writers are trying to add/create something that expands a franchise that they should be doing their "homework" to make sure that it doesn't cause any issues, hell the Transformers movies have their own easy to read section on the Tfwiki that can help people with this stuff.
Va'al wrote:
Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?

Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.


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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:18 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Deadput wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:I don't know, it seems very easy to say that s7 kept things from them ;) I mean you always keep aces up your sleeve. Also the asethic isn't a big deal as it's a way to sell more toys :lol: jokes aside, this movies status has already been decided. Let's just see what happens. You're also over-egging the impact the movies have as Paramount pays hasbro for the license, Bumblebee flops will hurt paramount more than hasbro. The toyline will be unaffected...if you want to worry about anything, watch the price of oil as that will cause mors disruptions.

I'm just really worried about Hasbro/Paramount passing up a good opportunity to start fresh, when I get worried I get panicky and that effects my posts.

Hollywood has rebooted super hero movies like Batman and Spiderman when their not doing well and it was for the better most of the time (When it wasn't they rebooted it again, not try to salvage it)

Like wouldn't it make everyone (not literally but a grand majority) happy if they started fresh?

Hell G1 didn't last as long as the Bayverse has back in the 80's so it's sort of the longest non stop running part of the brand.

Depends on your view point of G1 continuity, toyline in America folded about 1989 but elsewhere kept on going till G2 launched. Even then G1 molds were regularly used in Japan (for other shows and then in BWII and Car Robots)

In terms of Fiction, things kept getting added on to G1, like BW and BM, and in the case of Japan...there was that attempt to squash everything into G1, but that went as well as you would expect.

So yeah, G1 has had a variable life :lol: then you could argue it never went away and has always been with us in one form or another (be it toys, reissues, non-tf mold usage, comics, cartoons, cartoon re-runs etc)
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:24 am

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
Weapon: Fusion Blaster Cannon
ZeroWolf wrote:Depends on your view point of G1 continuity, toyline in America folded about 1989 but elsewhere kept on going till G2 launched. Even then G1 molds were regularly used in Japan (for other shows and then in BWII and Car Robots)

In terms of Fiction, things kept getting added on to G1, like BW and BM, and in the case of Japan...there was that attempt to squash everything into G1, but that went as well as you would expect.

So yeah, G1 has had a variable life :lol: then you could argue it never went away and has always been with us in one form or another (be it toys, reissues, non-tf mold usage, comics, cartoons, cartoon re-runs etc)


That's the thing, G1 technically never went away but it's never really been around in those few years either.

I mostly meant that while G1 is the continuity with the most years, it's also taken breaks which I can't say the same for the Bay films which has taken up 10/11 years in a row.

1984-1989 is only 5/6 years, sure it continued in Japan but that's them and a small section of the Earth and Transformers audience

I mean Sunbow G1 hasn't ever really returned or anything which I'm surprised that nobody has tried to make a continuation to what I can say was one of my personal most annoying cliffhangers since the Decepticons are still around at the end planning their next big scheme, like not even a comic from Funpub or something.
Va'al wrote:
Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?

Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.


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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:30 am

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
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There was a 1990 line.

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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:35 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Europe got the toyline extended as well ;) we even got new molds that USA wouldn't get till G2, and molds that were exclusive to Japan at that point... And to top it off, we got the rescue force, exclusive retools of the breastforce :lol: just missing two members and the breast partners.
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