Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

News Credits: 55 · by **o.supreme** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:16 am

Well all this talk has inspired me to get a postal scale. Imlomg overdue for one as it will assist in weighing this sold on eBay, but I can also go coocoo weighing all my TFs just to see

News Credits: 18 · by **blackeyedprime** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:02 am

o.supreme wrote:Well all this talk has inspired me to get a postal scale. Imlomg overdue for one as it will assist in weighing this sold on eBay, but I can also go coocoo weighing all my TFs just to see

Then you can decide whether to be a flat earther or not... Sorry I meant Massist :p

News Credits: 23 · by **aronjlove** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:40 am

We've had this argument before in the Earthrise thread as this is not the first time I've weighed figures. Previously we were discussing Leader class. Now for the Deluxes. Here's Cliffjumper versus a couple of Netflix repaints. All figures include their accessories, Cliffjumper has his skis and booster on in ski mode.

by **Windsweeper** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:46 pm

Definitely bought on sight though I wish his eyes were blue.

News Credits: 55 · by **o.supreme** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:27 pm

So cliff does weigh less than other deluxes. So it's not the amount of plastic in his case, people genuinely are getting less for their money with "Deluxe" Cliffjumper.

News Credits: 4498 · by **william-james88** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:43 pm

o.supreme wrote:So cliff does weigh less than other deluxes. So it's not the amount of plastic in his case, people genuinely are getting less for their money with "Deluxe" Cliffjumper.

If you only value the amount of plastic used, then all earthrise toys are rip offs compared to ultra class cyberverse toys which are the same price.

In the end, this whole discussion looks really ridiculous and dumb.

ZeroWolf wrote:Isn't Cliffjumper more complex then those whose size he relates to though? All the reports I've read that while not 'Deluxe' height he feels more like a deluxe in hand.

He's almost as complex as the original MP Bumblebee, which is pretty awesome.

by **Jeddostotle7** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:50 pm

o.supreme wrote:So cliff does weigh less than other deluxes. So it's not the amount of plastic in his case, people genuinely are getting less for their money with "Deluxe" Cliffjumper.

People have been focusing a bit too much on plastic mass. It is a part of it, but only a part. There's also parts count and engineering complexity, among other things, and in those two aspects Cliffjumper definitely far surpasses a Legends class figure, and possibly even other Earthrise and Siege deluxes.

News Credits: 23 · by **aronjlove** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:53 pm

o.supreme wrote:So cliff does weigh less than other deluxes. So it's not the amount of plastic in his case, people genuinely are getting less for their money with "Deluxe" Cliffjumper.

I guess if your goal is how much plastic you are getting? If that's the case, buy a bunch of Impactors, heaviest deluxe yet. But there is no way CJ is gonna sell for ten bucks these days. Spy Patrol is ten bucks and two cassettes barely weigh anything. Micromasters are also ten bucks and the Decepticon Air Strike Patrol weighs a bit more than the cassettes. For reference, PotP Tailgate is also present and comes in between the cassettes and CJ.

News Credits: 55 · by **o.supreme** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:31 pm

Just for the record I've not taken sides yet, just pointing out data observations. But many of you seem to be good at critisizing what factors should not be used to determine price & size class, but not offering suggestions of what should be used.

News Credits: 23 · by **aronjlove** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:47 pm

o.supreme wrote:Just for the record I've not taken sides yet, just pointing out data observations. But many of you seem to be good at critisizing what factors should not be used to determine price & size class, but not offering suggestions of what should be used.

I mean, these are transformers and the package usually has how many steps it takes to transform in big numbers. Because of that, I've honestly always thought that complexity was the price-determining factor. The simpler a figure the easier it is to make therefore it can be smaller and cost less. The more complicated it gets the pricier it gets. ER Cliffjumper is 18 steps, Siege Sidewswipe is 16, and ER Hoist is 20. Voyagers seem to be 25 steps or more.

News Credits: 55 · by **o.supreme** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:06 pm

Thanks for the suggestion. It's the positivity I appreciate. There is of course a counterpoint, but I'll not share it today (someone else may) because I appreciate the effort and optimism.

News Credits: 23 · by **aronjlove** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:08 pm

o.supreme wrote:Thanks for the suggestion. It's the positivity I appreciate. There is of course a counterpoint, but I'll not share it today (someone else may) because I appreciate the effort and optimism.

News Credits: 4498 · by **william-james88** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:17 pm

o.supreme wrote:Just for the record I've not taken sides yet, just pointing out data observations. But many of you seem to be good at critisizing what factors should not be used to determine price & size class, but not offering suggestions of what should be used.

That's because it's about the cost it takes to get a toy made. It always was, that's simple economics. The biggest cost is human labour and molding. The more parts and complexity means the more human labour is spent on assembly, and all transformers are still assembled by hand. Factories also charge per paint app. So the more parts and the more paint means more steps to get the product made and thus the higher the cost.

Why does this even need to be said?

News Credits: 55 · by **o.supreme** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:32 am

Because one can counter with examples of toys that are less complex, would require less labor time to assemble and yet still cost more money at retail. That's what I'm getting at, Every point has a counter point example of something that bucks the trend. Basically, if someone says that they shouldn't be paying $20 for ER Cliffjumper, the fans shouldn't jump all over them. It's an opinion that can have arguments to both support and counter it. If someone wants to say that there hasn't been a true Leader Class toy in the Generation line since TR they are both right and wrong at the same time. It's just frustrating is all when fans talk about this supposed standard, when in reality it is a sliding scale.

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:53 am

I think it depends on how the person presents their opinion and then how much a fan is able to compromise on what they believe is acceptable as a size class. In my case, I can accept that Cliffjumper is sold as a deluxe because of the additional weapons he comes with and people's testimonials about how he feels and transforms.

News Credits: 23 · by **aronjlove** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:10 pm

I know I'm a lil defensive of Cliffjumper so I hope I haven't offended anyone. I just can't help but feel if there was a way to test drive a figure before buying, people would have their doubts put to rest once he is in hand. Yes, he is small, but he can do everything a deluxe can do. He has knees and elbows, arms and wrists that swivel, a waist swivel, ankle tilts. His big clown feet give him a great platform for balancing. Cliffjumper is really fun and I'd hate for anyone to miss out on the fun.

News Credits: 18 · by **blackeyedprime** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:32 pm

More opportunities to get cliff at a discount than hubcap, likely the same for bee selects repaints too. Its not as though hasbro doesn't have a million different transformers skus out there that they couldn't have kept legends sized figures/lower price point for wfcs minibots. Its kind of nice being able to pass on some selects stuff with the amount of exclusives wfc has/is going to have.

News Credits: 1641 · by **D-Maximal_Primal** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:54 pm

Hubcap looks a lot better than i thought he would! I plan to get him, he will go to the Wreckers shelf

News Credits: 4498 · by **william-james88** » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:50 pm

When Transformers Siege Brunt was first revealed, it was pretty clear the robot mode design was taken directly from the Centurion design from the IDW Stormbringer comic. So that seemed not only like an obvious redeco but also like the character this design was intended for. But we never got an IDW Centurion ... until now... maybe. I say maybe because while this looks like grey plastic, there have been customs of this same character done already so we never know until an official release. But hey, this looks the part for sure.

You can compare below with a shot from the comic. This was posted on Instagram along with the notion of it being for the Generations Selects line.

News Credits: 18 · by **blackeyedprime** » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:59 pm

Needs some more silver on it. Might be nice to get a tetra jet repaint as a viper too. With the x overs going crazy and rapidly expanding it might happen too.

News Credits: 42 · by **TF-fan kev777** » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:46 pm

What I find interesting about this potential leak is that you don't see the part of Brunt that was recently just revealed to be given to Selects Hubcap. :-?

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:22 pm

This was the repaint I was expecting of Brunt from the toys reveal, though I see social media is on the fence with this being real or a custom.

News Credits: 174 · by **Hellscream9999** » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:30 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:This was the repaint I was expecting of Brunt from the toys reveal, though I see social media is on the fence with this being real or a custom.

With our luck, it will be official and the only "new" reveal for the fans friday coming up :lol:

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:35 pm

Hellscream9999 wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:This was the repaint I was expecting of Brunt from the toys reveal, though I see social media is on the fence with this being real or a custom.

With our luck, it will be official and the only "new" reveal for the fans friday coming up

Quite possibly unless they're going to do a double whammy and reveal this and Hubcap

News Credits: 83 · by **Jtprime17** » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:01 pm

For those who care here’s a bill of lading for Selects Exhaust in the U.S.

https://panjiva.com/An-Deringer-173-W-Ihd-Vdr/68968274

E86225L00 24 PCS TRA GEN SELECTS DELUXE EXHAUST