Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Sabrblade wrote:That's just it though. She's not a new character. She's from an episode of Robots in Disguise 2015 that nobody really cared about. Yet, here she is getting the premium toy treatment from a Hasbro team who wasn't in charge back when she first debuted and disappeared never to be seen or heard from again until now.

That's kinda what I mean by "new". She's a one and done (though I forget that show was so long ago, relatively speaking.), she's not a Prime, a Wheeljack or a Starscream. Hell, she's not even a Xaaron (he was in the comics a LOT in the UK before Furman brought him Stateside.), and we're getting him too! This line has been a joy.

~ Grim

Just got notice that comic Grimlock is preparing to ship from Pulse

Opened up deluxe Hot Shot this weekend and what a disappointment. It just feels like a devolved, budget version of the original with a couple floppy ankle tilts added to satisfy the sweaty masses.

I feel like an ungrateful, petulant child for saying this, but I want them to stop re-visiting Unicron Trilogy characters. Outside of Cybertron Starscream (edit: and Armada Hot Shot), not one of these feels like a big enough improvement to justify the work required to make a new toy.

If they want to put out re-dos of stuff like Armada Scavenger or Sideswipe that were full-blown gimmick toys, ok, I get that. Do it. Re-doing a legit highlight of the Cybertron line like Hot Shot and not materially improving it almost 20 years later is embarrassing.

Anyway I don't have the energy to keep being negative, so here's an unexpected positive - that Kingdom Cyclonus alt mode looks really nice in Ferak colors now that I have it in hand. Good stuff.

ScottyP wrote:Opened up deluxe Hot Shot this weekend and what a disappointment. It just feels like a devolved, budget version of the original with a couple floppy ankle tilts added to satisfy the sweaty masses.

I feel like an ungrateful, petulant child for saying this, but I want them to stop re-visiting Unicron Trilogy characters. Outside of Cybertron Starscream (edit: and Armada Hot Shot), not one of these feels like a big enough improvement to justify the work required to make a new toy.

If they want to put out re-dos of stuff like Armada Scavenger or Sideswipe that were full-blown gimmick toys, ok, I get that. Do it. Re-doing a legit highlight of the Cybertron line like Hot Shot and not materially improving it almost 20 years later is embarrassing.

Anyway I don't have the energy to keep being negative, so here's an unexpected positive - that Kingdom Cyclonus alt mode looks really nice in Ferak colors now that I have it in hand. Good stuff.

While I'd add Armada Prime to you list, I share this sentiment. Doing redos of Unicron Trilogy toys was always going to be a mixed bag, because so much of the identity of those toys is tied to the gimmicks that it's difficult to make a gimmick-less version without diminishing the toy's fun. This is particularly notorious with Cybertron toys, because they're not as badly articulated as Armada and Energon, so it doesn't even feel like a trade off of dropping features to get articulation. I mean, it's the line right before Classics, and I can think of only two Classics toys you could "re do" nowadays and make it feel like an upgrade and not a downgrade.

This is why I'm of the opinion that they shouldn't re do ALL the Transmetals, for example. There's no way they'll do Optimus, Megatron or Cheetor better than the originals in any meaningful way. The only two real candidates there would be MAYBE Rampage and Depth Charge. Perhaps Tarantulas and Rattrap, but there'd be a big chance of them not being able to deliver with those two also.

Rtron wrote:
While I'd add Armada Prime to you list, I share this sentiment. Doing redos of Unicron Trilogy toys was always going to be a mixed bag, because so much of the identity of those toys is tied to the gimmicks that it's difficult to make a gimmick-less version without diminishing the toy's fun. This is particularly notorious with Cybertron toys, because they're not as badly articulated as Armada and Energon, so it doesn't even feel like a trade off of dropping features to get articulation. I mean, it's the line right before Classics, and I can think of only two Classics toys you could "re do" nowadays and make it feel like an upgrade and not a downgrade.

This is why I'm of the opinion that they shouldn't re do ALL the Transmetals, for example. There's no way they'll do Optimus, Megatron or Cheetor better than the originals in any meaningful way. The only two real candidates there would be MAYBE Rampage and Depth Charge. Perhaps Tarantulas and Rattrap, but there'd be a big chance of them not being able to deliver with those two also.

Fair point on Prime. It was a wash for me - super mode articulation offset by a mailed-in base mode and no Mini-Con - but yeah, it wasn't bad at all. Tidal Wave is fine and does something new by being huge but I have a list of other issues with it.

I think we all (generally/collectively, not literally) remember the intrusive gimmicks of that era too often while not appreciating how well integrated they were in most cases. For every oddly proportioned Energon Combat or Mega Class like Prowl or Jetfire there's a real standout like Rodimus or Beachcomber.

I say all that and Hot Shot had a totally different problem of just feeling cheap. Dunno if that's from budget concerns or the designers not having passion for UT or some mix of those, but it's just off regardless. A lack of attention to detail is evident just by looking at the wing spoiler piece things being the wrong color. There's cartoon accuracy, toy accuracy, and then what Hot Shot does with "Legends Class toy only" accuracy. Especially weird is them being correct on some of the design material Mark showed off for it. Ah well, it still wouldn't fix the always shrugged shoulders, ankle tilt done by making a block cutout or his dopey, hollow gun.

Some of these characters are probably better served by "Missing Link" style engineering, those BW Transmetals included. Take the original, add some movement here and there, call it a day. Heck, Rampage might not even need that much. A reissue without flaking chrome carapace would be very satisfying, even if I personally need that for Shockaract more than Rampage

I wholeheartedly agree on wanting a more "Missing Link" approach for some of these characters that had more accurate original figures, with small changes like new headsculpts or extra steps in places like Transmetal Rattrap's backpack. However, that would also mean they'd come with a Missing Link price tag, which would not be viable in the current setup of the Studio Series / Legacy Generations lines. But yeah, that'd be my preferred approach with lines like Transmetals or Cybertron, which were already pretty show accurate and had a bunch of features integral to the toys' identity.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Rtron wrote:I wholeheartedly agree on wanting a more "Missing Link" approach for some of these characters that had more accurate original figures, with small changes like new headsculpts or extra steps in places like Transmetal Rattrap's backpack. However, that would also mean they'd come with a Missing Link price tag, which would not be viable in the current setup of the Studio Series / Legacy Generations lines. But yeah, that'd be my preferred approach with lines like Transmetals or Cybertron, which were already pretty show accurate and had a bunch of features integral to the toys' identity.

As far as Transmetal go, don't forget Dragon Megatron. I own both the original and the Legacy one. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are equally good IMO. So, if they made the update of Dragon Megatron this good, I don't see how they could fail the other Transmetals. Contrary to Armada, Transmetal was not gimmick heavy so their updates are easy enough to do.

Because Megatron was a Transmetal 2, and Transmetal 2s in general are less screen accurate than the original Transmetals, so there's a perceptible gain there when redoing them. They also rely less on material and surface finishes like translucent plastics, metallized plastics and chrome for their "good toy feel". The original Transmetals, however, are already super accurate, so there's not much to be gained there, and rely a lot on finishes that I'm not quite sure they'd be able to replicate on today's budget for a Generations line. So the only real difference would be articulation... An area which Beast Wars already does pretty well. So what I think is that with Transmetals you'd basically end up having smaller, less featured, less sturdy, chromeless versions of the old toys, where the only net positive is probably going to be ankle tilts and a new headsculpt.

In a in a past Q&A with Hasbro, they have said that if they were to do new versions of the transmetal figures, they would find a way to work around the lack of vacuum-metalized chrome paint, implying that it would be shiny metallic paint instead.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I see you point about Transmetal ONE.
Usually, is stingy on paint so I can see the issues about less chrome.

But imagine. T-Rex Megatron Transmetal WITHOUT GPS.
And leader sized.

My Megatron's waist is still intact, somehow, despite me opening the whole thing then putting it back together as I little child, back in 1999 or 2000 I think. I did that because one day his hips just came apart spontaneously. I still don't know what happened, nothing was broken, his legs just fell off. Managed to fix it by just opening the toy up and putting them in place, never came loose again. Once the waist inevitably breaks, I'll see if I can design a 3D printed replacement.

Sabrblade wrote:In a in a past Q&A with Hasbro, they have said that if they were to do new versions of the transmetal figures, they would find a way to work around the lack of vacuum-metalized chrome paint, implying that it would be shiny metallic paint instead.

Well, see, this stuff is subjective, but I personally would consider losing the chrome for ankle tilts and a headsculpt a downgrade.

Rtron wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Rtron wrote:I wholeheartedly agree on wanting a more "Missing Link" approach for some of these characters that had more accurate original figures, with small changes like new headsculpts or extra steps in places like Transmetal Rattrap's backpack. However, that would also mean they'd come with a Missing Link price tag, which would not be viable in the current setup of the Studio Series / Legacy Generations lines. But yeah, that'd be my preferred approach with lines like Transmetals or Cybertron, which were already pretty show accurate and had a bunch of features integral to the toys' identity.

As far as Transmetal go, don't forget Dragon Megatron. I own both the original and the Legacy one. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are equally good IMO. So, if they made the update of Dragon Megatron this good, I don't see how they could fail the other Transmetals. Contrary to Armada, Transmetal was not gimmick heavy so their updates are easy enough to do.

Because Megatron was a Transmetal 2, and Transmetal 2s in general are less screen accurate than the original Transmetals, so there's a perceptible gain there when redoing them. They also rely less on material and surface finishes like translucent plastics, metallized plastics and chrome for their "good toy feel". The original Transmetals, however, are already super accurate, so there's not much to be gained there, and rely a lot on finishes that I'm not quite sure they'd be able to replicate on today's budget for a Generations line. So the only real difference would be articulation... An area which Beast Wars already does pretty well. So what I think is that with Transmetals you'd basically end up having smaller, less featured, less sturdy, chromeless versions of the old toys, where the only net positive is probably going to be ankle tilts and a new headsculpt.

The only Transmetal I really want, is one they will never do: IDW Sins of the Wreckers, Tarantulas. He is pretty much just regular Transmetal Tarantulas, but a few minor changes. It would be awesome if they actually used fur around his neck/shoulders in robot mode.

I've never really been a fan of the vac metal finishes, they scratch too easily and wear out too fast. So I'm gonna say something probably unpopular, but, I am fine if, most, Transmetal remakes don't have it.

Also I would like a Transmetal 2 Cheetor. Both modes on that were nice. So brutal and sweet looking.

Hero Alpha wrote:

Rtron wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Rtron wrote:I wholeheartedly agree on wanting a more "Missing Link" approach for some of these characters that had more accurate original figures, with small changes like new headsculpts or extra steps in places like Transmetal Rattrap's backpack. However, that would also mean they'd come with a Missing Link price tag, which would not be viable in the current setup of the Studio Series / Legacy Generations lines. But yeah, that'd be my preferred approach with lines like Transmetals or Cybertron, which were already pretty show accurate and had a bunch of features integral to the toys' identity.

As far as Transmetal go, don't forget Dragon Megatron. I own both the original and the Legacy one. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are equally good IMO. So, if they made the update of Dragon Megatron this good, I don't see how they could fail the other Transmetals. Contrary to Armada, Transmetal was not gimmick heavy so their updates are easy enough to do.

Because Megatron was a Transmetal 2, and Transmetal 2s in general are less screen accurate than the original Transmetals, so there's a perceptible gain there when redoing them. They also rely less on material and surface finishes like translucent plastics, metallized plastics and chrome for their "good toy feel". The original Transmetals, however, are already super accurate, so there's not much to be gained there, and rely a lot on finishes that I'm not quite sure they'd be able to replicate on today's budget for a Generations line. So the only real difference would be articulation... An area which Beast Wars already does pretty well. So what I think is that with Transmetals you'd basically end up having smaller, less featured, less sturdy, chromeless versions of the old toys, where the only net positive is probably going to be ankle tilts and a new headsculpt.

The only Transmetal I really want, is one they will never do: IDW Sins of the Wreckers, Tarantulas. He is pretty much just regular Transmetal Tarantulas, but a few minor changes. It would be awesome if they actually used fur around his neck/shoulders in robot mode.

I've never really been a fan of the vac metal finishes, they scratch too easily and wear out too fast. So I'm gonna say something probably unpopular, but, I am fine if, most, Transmetal remakes don't have it.

Also I would like a Transmetal 2 Cheetor. Both modes on that were nice. So brutal and sweet looking.

IF the Transformers budget was still what it used to be, maybe they could do an IDW Tarantulas with FLOCKED spider parts. It'd be insane. The one beast guy I really want from IDW1 is Tidal Wave, though.

I get why some people dislike the chrome, but in the case of Transmetals I think it's just to big a part of their look, both as toys and characters. But hey, I won't mind so much any re do's lacking it if there's reissues or something of the originals too.

Rtron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:In a in a past Q&A with Hasbro, they have said that if they were to do new versions of the transmetal figures, they would find a way to work around the lack of vacuum-metalized chrome paint, implying that it would be shiny metallic paint instead.

Well, see, this stuff is subjective, but I personally would consider losing the chrome for ankle tilts and a headsculpt a downgrade.

Shininess can still achieved without delicate flaking chrome.

Just taking a cursory look at some auctions on eBay...

Sabrblade wrote:

Rtron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:In a in a past Q&A with Hasbro, they have said that if they were to do new versions of the transmetal figures, they would find a way to work around the lack of vacuum-metalized chrome paint, implying that it would be shiny metallic paint instead.

Well, see, this stuff is subjective, but I personally would consider losing the chrome for ankle tilts and a headsculpt a downgrade.

Shininess can still achieved without delicate flaking chrome.

Just taking a cursory look at some auctions on eBay...

I could also show you some pretty much pristine examples from my childhood toybox. I get some people don't like the chrome, I personally like it and wouldn't trade it for some extra articulation, given how accurate most Transmetals are. My point is that there's lines with which Generations is not automatically a clear cut upgrade the way it is with G1 or original Beast Wars. Unicron Trilogy is definitely one where it's not really an upgrade, but a trade off, and one that can feel like a downgrade, and Transmetals 1 would also be one of those if they ever attempted it.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Years ago, I bought that big Beast Machine vehicon jet, brand new and sealed.
It was autumn inside that box.

Somehow, most copies of the Cyclonus version of the toy, which came out only two years later, seem to be miraculously immune to the chrome flaking. Not sure about the 2005 Japanese Jetstorm, though.

ScottyP wrote:If they want to put out re-dos of stuff like Armada Scavenger or Sideswipe that were full-blown gimmick toys, ok, I get that. Do it. Re-doing a legit highlight of the Cybertron line like Hot Shot and not materially improving it almost 20 years later is embarrassing.

CTRL F
Search for : Hot Shot
Replace with : Vector Prime

No joke, Vector Prime is a highlight of not just the Cybertron line but the brand as a whole. Such an intricate design and a toy with such magestic presence.

Only to be shrunken down and have his uniqueness removed by sharing a mold and not even bothering with enough retooling to hide vestigial bits.

As for something positive, I chose to mess around with Legacy Magmatron again today. What a well done toy. TF toy of the year so far for me and by a significant margin.

Rtron wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Rtron wrote:I wholeheartedly agree on wanting a more "Missing Link" approach for some of these characters that had more accurate original figures, with small changes like new headsculpts or extra steps in places like Transmetal Rattrap's backpack. However, that would also mean they'd come with a Missing Link price tag, which would not be viable in the current setup of the Studio Series / Legacy Generations lines. But yeah, that'd be my preferred approach with lines like Transmetals or Cybertron, which were already pretty show accurate and had a bunch of features integral to the toys' identity.

As far as Transmetal go, don't forget Dragon Megatron. I own both the original and the Legacy one. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are equally good IMO. So, if they made the update of Dragon Megatron this good, I don't see how they could fail the other Transmetals. Contrary to Armada, Transmetal was not gimmick heavy so their updates are easy enough to do.

Because Megatron was a Transmetal 2, and Transmetal 2s in general are less screen accurate than the original Transmetals, so there's a perceptible gain there when redoing them. They also rely less on material and surface finishes like translucent plastics, metallized plastics and chrome for their "good toy feel". The original Transmetals, however, are already super accurate, so there's not much to be gained there, and rely a lot on finishes that I'm not quite sure they'd be able to replicate on today's budget for a Generations line. So the only real difference would be articulation... An area which Beast Wars already does pretty well. So what I think is that with Transmetals you'd basically end up having smaller, less featured, less sturdy, chromeless versions of the old toys, where the only net positive is probably going to be ankle tilts and a new headsculpt.

Regarding Transmetals holding up, I’m currently writing top 5 lists for beast wars characters now that ROTB gave us a bunch more toys and when it comes to Cheetor, his Transmetal toy still comes up best when looking at the overall package/value

Just got my "item shipping soon" notif for Lockdown and Cannonball from Pulse.

william-james88 wrote:

Rtron wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Rtron wrote:I wholeheartedly agree on wanting a more "Missing Link" approach for some of these characters that had more accurate original figures, with small changes like new headsculpts or extra steps in places like Transmetal Rattrap's backpack. However, that would also mean they'd come with a Missing Link price tag, which would not be viable in the current setup of the Studio Series / Legacy Generations lines. But yeah, that'd be my preferred approach with lines like Transmetals or Cybertron, which were already pretty show accurate and had a bunch of features integral to the toys' identity.

As far as Transmetal go, don't forget Dragon Megatron. I own both the original and the Legacy one. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are equally good IMO. So, if they made the update of Dragon Megatron this good, I don't see how they could fail the other Transmetals. Contrary to Armada, Transmetal was not gimmick heavy so their updates are easy enough to do.

Because Megatron was a Transmetal 2, and Transmetal 2s in general are less screen accurate than the original Transmetals, so there's a perceptible gain there when redoing them. They also rely less on material and surface finishes like translucent plastics, metallized plastics and chrome for their "good toy feel". The original Transmetals, however, are already super accurate, so there's not much to be gained there, and rely a lot on finishes that I'm not quite sure they'd be able to replicate on today's budget for a Generations line. So the only real difference would be articulation... An area which Beast Wars already does pretty well. So what I think is that with Transmetals you'd basically end up having smaller, less featured, less sturdy, chromeless versions of the old toys, where the only net positive is probably going to be ankle tilts and a new headsculpt.

Regarding Transmetals holding up, I’m currently writing top 5 lists for beast wars characters now that ROTB gave us a bunch more toys and when it comes to Cheetor, his Transmetal toy still comes up best when looking at the overall package/value

I agree with that sentiment, TM Cheetor is a legit highlight

I'd be fine if they skipped TM Cheetor and went right to TM2. The articulation was lacking and the transformation was simple and boring on TM2 Cheetor, it would be an easy win for them.

Emerje

This might be common knowledge already, but apparently the upcoming Leader Soundwave will be a straight rerelease of the Netflix figure, with only toy colors Rumble added and the bird switched from Laserbeak to Buzzsaw, who will sport a yellow deco. My guess is this is for those who missed out on the Netflix figure as well as for newer collectors.

Rodimus Prime wrote:This might be common knowledge already, but apparently the upcoming Leader Soundwave will be a straight rerelease of the Netflix figure, with only toy colors Rumble added and the bird switched from Laserbeak to Buzzsaw, who will sport a yellow deco. My guess is this is for those who missed out on the Netflix figure as well as for newer collectors.

It was revealed and put up for preorder after the last stream.

Also, SDCC revealed Dinoking, he looks fantastic!

Rodimus Prime wrote:This might be common knowledge already,

Since June 13.