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Sabrblade wrote:Good luck, man.

For what it's worth, I read the whole thing without any booze (as I don't drink), so brace yourself for a long haul of frustration if you ain't got anything to ease up the read.

Thanks! Good thing I'm an avid Scotch drinker.

Though, I really don't think Megatronus physically looks that much like Megatron at all. I mean, gray deco and arm cannon aside.

Personally, I feel that (aside from his head) Alchemist looks more like a Megatron (Movie or Prime, specifically) than Megatronus does.

Sabrblade wrote:Though, I really don't think Megatronus physically looks that much like Megatron at all. I mean, gray deco and arm cannon aside.

I'm not sure you can cast the grey deco and arm cannon aside, when those are Megatron's defining features... Plus, Megatronus' helmet seems inspired by Bayverse Megatron.

Sabrblade wrote:Personally, I feel that (aside from his head) Alchemist looks more like a Megatron (Movie or Prime, specifically) than Megatronus does.

Respectfully disagree.

megatronus wrote:I'm not sure you can cast the grey deco and arm cannon aside, when those are Megatron's defining features...

I mean shape-wise.

And, there's a lot of gray TFs out there who can have their guns attached to their arms.

megatronus wrote:Plus, Megtronus' helmet seems inspired by Bayverse Megatron.

Looks more like just the Decepticon insignia to me, what with the horned helmet and the triangular face and cheeks.

The face is certainly un-Megatron-like.

Should I stock up on booze for a reading of this? I'm not much of a drinker, really, but if this is going to be as frustrating as I think it is, I might have to reconsider how much I like having a functioning liver.

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:Should I stock up on booze for a reading of this? I'm not much of a drinker, really, but if this is going to be as frustrating as I think it is, I might have to reconsider how much I like having a functioning liver.

Booze or ponies, or whatever smooths you over.

I really should've used ponies. I didn't use anything at all.

Don't know how I didn't see this post:

Melfice_Cyrum wrote:As far as the inconsistencies between the Covenant and the novels, I get the idea the novels are treated like an AU, since a lot of the stuff in Exodus straight up DOESN'T HAPPEN.

Erm, no, it's not that it "doesn't happen", it's just that a lot of it is glossed over due to only being able to fit so much into this book.

Melfice_Cyrum wrote:And while Exiles gets some better treatment, a lot of the events are either only given barest mention, or again, straight up don't happen.

Again, there's only so much that could have been fit into this book, so a lot of it had to be summarized instead of thoroughly elaborated on down to the last minute detail.

Melfice_Cyrum wrote:Having never read the novels and armed with only tfwiki's summary, I admit I'm more biased towards the Covenant in terms of validity.

The Covenant based its info on many sources, including the novels.

It contradicts the video games and Prime cartoon as well, so does that make the games and show into AUs as well?

Melfice_Cyrum wrote:Also, I feel like I'm one of the only people NOT bothered by how Solus was handled. I mean, I honestly don't see how it's so bad that she was killed. We already knew she'd been killed by Megatronus. That the details are obscured and incorrect was easily chalked up to the Cataclysm scrambling everyone's brains. In fact, I find it amusing that the modern Cybertronians think of The Fallen as this dark, evil character, when he was in fact anything BUT evil.

It's not the simple fact that she was killed, but HOW she was killed, as well as just how she was portrayed overall. She went from being her own character to being reduced to just "The Chick". She was made out to be the love interest of about half of the Primes, all at once, and gradually had any and all traces of her dignity stripped away with each page.

The book itself even openly offends those readers of the female gender by stating that Cybertronians of this continuity have no concept of gender, and that those who are identified as "female" are only done so for the convenience of us humans, because those Cybertronians that we see as female are "different" from the "regular" and "right" kind of Cybertronians (because Solus Prime was "different" from the other 12). Yes, the book strongly suggests that a Cybertronian who is considered a "female" is of an irregular variety to the norm, as though it is "wrong" for a Cybertronian to be female.

And, I repeat from an earlier post, it was a WOMAN who wrote this book.

And this woman wouldn't happen to be Stephenie Meyer, now would it?

But in all seriousness, Solus got a really raw deal. It's almost insane how no one writing this found a problem with that.

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:And this woman wouldn't happen to be Stephenie Meyer, now would it?

Justina Robson

Though, looking back at what the book really said, and comparing it to my previous post, I seem to have made some goofs in regards to what it said about female Cybertronians. I was going by memory and the book really doesn't say that it's "abnormal" to be the kind of Cybertronian that Solus was (i.e. - female), but rather, it says that Cybertronians of the same variety as Solus (females) are at a 1:12 ratio with the other kind of Cybertronians (males) instead of a more preferable (by humans) 1:1 ratio.

BUT, it does still say that Solus was probably the way she was (a female) because it was a necessity for her in operating her Creation Lathe. And that, combined with her corpse being melted into what is essentially Primus's babymaker, implies that Cybertronians who are "females" are that way for "reproductive" purposes only, rather than being "female" just because (even if the concept of Cybertronian reproduction between a male and female is never actually touched up in this book, but the connotation still remains). And that is still offensive towards females.

It's just, why a 1:12 ratio? Why couldn't the Primes just be sexless, genderless beings that defied all notions of what it means to have sex and gender? Maybe it's because that's a bit too deep, but it would make much more sense for Alpha Trion to be all "the Primes cannot be boiled down to 'he' or 'she' and the pronouns we use for them are untranslatable but I will make do with what I got." or something like that.

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:It's just, why a 1:12 ratio? Why couldn't the Primes just be sexless, genderless beings that defied all notions of what it means to have sex and gender? Maybe it's because that's a bit too deep, but it would make much more sense for Alpha Trion to be all "the Primes cannot be boiled down to 'he' or 'she' and the pronouns we use for them are untranslatable but I will make do with what I got." or something like that.

Actually, that's exactly what Alpha Trion/the book says...

megatronus wrote:

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:It's just, why a 1:12 ratio? Why couldn't the Primes just be sexless, genderless beings that defied all notions of what it means to have sex and gender? Maybe it's because that's a bit too deep, but it would make much more sense for Alpha Trion to be all "the Primes cannot be boiled down to 'he' or 'she' and the pronouns we use for them are untranslatable but I will make do with what I got." or something like that.

Actually, that's exactly what Alpha Trion/the book says...

But he still does note that there are two distinct "kinds" of Cybertronians (even if they have no bioligical concept of gender/sex) that reflect what we as humans perceive as akin to gender, and that the ratio between these two "kinds" is 1:12.

Sabrblade wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:It's just, why a 1:12 ratio? Why couldn't the Primes just be sexless, genderless beings that defied all notions of what it means to have sex and gender? Maybe it's because that's a bit too deep, but it would make much more sense for Alpha Trion to be all "the Primes cannot be boiled down to 'he' or 'she' and the pronouns we use for them are untranslatable but I will make do with what I got." or something like that.

Actually, that's exactly what Alpha Trion/the book says...

But he still does note that there are two distinct "kinds" of Cybertronians (even if they have no bioligical concept of gender/sex) that reflect what we as humans perceive as akin to gender, and that the ratio between these two "kinds" is 1:12.

Yup. He does say that. I'm not sure why you start with a "but" because what we're saying isn't contradictory.

Just got the book today on this merriest of Christmases. I'm honestly a bit overwhelmed and even nervous (I like my canon the way it is, thank you very much), but I got it for a good reason.

Instead of a few grains of salt I'll be taking Lot's wife with me on this journey.

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:Just got the book today on this merriest of Christmases. I'm honestly a bit overwhelmed and even nervous (I like my canon the way it is, thank you very much), but I got it for a good reason.

Instead of a few grains of salt I'll be taking Lot's wife with me on this journey.

Love the biblical reference!

megatronus wrote:

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:Just got the book today on this merriest of Christmases. I'm honestly a bit overwhelmed and even nervous (I like my canon the way it is, thank you very much), but I got it for a good reason.

Instead of a few grains of salt I'll be taking Lot's wife with me on this journey.

Love the biblical reference!

Fitting for how this book is essentially a bible of sorts.

Got this for Christmas. I wish I could read it right now, but I'm busy with my PS4. Also, I had no idea the book's story extended all the way to the end of Prime.

SlyTF1 wrote:Got this for Christmas. I wish I could read it right now, but I'm busy with my PS4. Also, I had no idea the book's story extended all the way to the end of Prime.

Yep.

And since it only goes as far as "Predacons Rising", it doesn't cover the Beast Hunters comic series that starred the Dinobots.

I'm glad you liked the reference!

Now, onto the book. I haven't gotten far, mostly because of the way it's written--it's not all that good. Sometimes it feels clunky, other times it feels like a first draft. Sabrbalde covered a lot of stuff that was painfully stupid, so I'll try and give it a shot.

The entire Solus Prime thing to me is still very unfair. I'm not a psycho-feminist that sees TEH MENZ oppressing TEH WIMINZ everywhere, but that was impossible to ignore. Imagine this, for the MLP fans in the room. No, don't click the back button, this has a point. Imagine that Equestia's creation myth was this: A single deity creates 12 mares and 1 stallion. Each mare has something neat to contribute to the ponies, and the stallion himself is an Apollo-like being of the arts.

So what does Apollo Stallion contribute? Art? Reason? Logic? Nope. He only gives Equestria stallions.

Tell me, boys. Does that sound fair to you?

And they are browbeating the ever living hell out of us with Megatron's redemption, but I'm not buying what they're selling. Maybe it's because the whole thing was so shoddily done in PR that the idea of Megatron giving up everything he has ever done is preposterous. It would be more in character for him to possibly be driven even more insane from the torture. Sorry Hasbro, but it just didn't work.

OPTIMUS IS THE THIRTEENTH ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I'm sorry, did I just wander into FanFiction Land? Because I think I might have. Look, fanfiction isn't bad, I promise you it isn't, but that entire concept is so ludicrously fanfiction-y that I aged 3 years. It's just painfully dumb.

You could make a drinking game out of all the retcons and mind bogglingly stupid moments in this book. I wanted something much more substantial, maybe a complete caste list from highest to lowest, some maps of cities and of Cybertron itself, maybe even months of the Cybertronian calendar. But perhaps I'm asking too much.

Even so, It still had some cool moments and ideas that I did like, even if they were a little bit out there.

Do I recommend this? I say borrow it from a friend and then give it back to them when you're done. Or wait until it's cheaper. What I DO recommend? Make your own canon. Chances are it won't be filled with retcons and hole that get bigger and bigger.

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:And they are browbeating the ever living hell out of us with Megatron's redemption, but I'm not buying what they're selling. Maybe it's because the whole thing was so shoddily done in PR that the idea of Megatron giving up everything he has ever done is so not him. It would be more in character for him to possibly be driven even more insane from the torture. Sorry Hasbro, but it just didn't work.

But even before it occurred near the end of Predacons Rising, there were obvious signs throughout the entirety of the movie that Megatron was basically done with the war and any attempts of his to get back in the game kept being in vain to the point that it only made sense for him to just stop trying and concede defeat.

First he's awoken from his peaceful slumber by Unicron, a slumber that he himself made no attempts to awaken from since he was finally at peace.

Then he learns of Cybertron's restoration, which makes him realize that he truly has lost and feels no reason to go on lest he just ends up wrecking what he had hoped to create.

Then he sees Unicron's possession of his body as a possible chance of hope for him to have his glory back, but then Unicron shoots down that hope by declaring no mutuality between them as Megatron will only serve as Unicron's puppet.

Then Megatron learns that Unicron wishes to destroy Cybertron, an act that appalls Megatron and puts him in the same mindset as the Autobots.

Then Megatron attempts to defy Unicron at various points, such as tricking him into being attacked by Predaking, which only results in Megatron being tortured.

Then Megatron also mocks Unicron at each time that Unicron is humbled or humiliated by the Autobots, an act that indirectly has him rooting for those he once considered his enemies.

Finally, after all this, Megatron is called out to by Optimus asking for him to help them stop their common foe, and while Megatron cannot answer due to his enduring "eternal suffering" by Unicron, he can still hear Optimus, and what he hears are not ill feelings of old harbored from millennia of hate and conflict, but pleas of teamwork and cooperation. Even if the current circumstances called for as drastic measures as old enemies working together for once, Optimus' pleas were sincere rather than begrudging, and Megatron could hear them and likely wished to answer them with sincerity of his own if he could (or even to cry out to Optimus to help Megatron himself).

After so much, it's no wonder that Megatron came out broken and awoken to a reality that his vanity once clouded.

I SAID I'M NOT BUYING IT. STOP CALLING THIS NUMBER AND TAKE ME OFF THE MAILING LIST.

Okay, I will give it credit--a Megatron that is willing to put everything behind him and start fresh is indeed something new. I may not like it, but it is an interesting concept.

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:Okay, I will give it credit--a Megatron that is willing to put everything behind him and start fresh is indeed something new. I may not like it, but it is an interesting concept.

Just like Starscream.

I think it's cool that this show (despite its flaws) attempted to mature its two main baddies and see the error of their ways (Screamer grew to accept his role as Megatron #2 guy, and Megs realized that he had become the very thing he originally hated so much).

Started really reading it today. I REALLY like Megatronus. He's probably my favorite TF ever, as of now.

SlyTF1 wrote:Started really reading it today. I REALLY like Megatronus. He's probably my favorite TF ever, as of now.

Well, if you like guys who are pure evil and completely irredeemable masterminds of their own being... too bad.

As somebody who hasn't got a clue about what half of you are moaning about, I found the Convenant of Primus to be an interesting history of the civilization of the Transformers. I was fascinated by the concept of the 'Thirteen' and how Cybertron's history has been divided into ages with their own unique features because of what happened during that time.

For someone who, like me, hasn't really bothered with Transformer literature before, it was a really enjoyable read. It felt and read like the Transformer equivalent to Tolkien's the Silmarillion in terms of scope, grandeur and sheer drama of the storytelling.