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RAR wrote:The Legends class and the Leader Class are BOTH IDW seekers you realise ?

That's debatable. The only similarly is in the chest.

LE0KING wrote:

RAR wrote:The Legends class and the Leader Class are BOTH IDW seekers you realise ?

That's debatable. The only similarly is in the chest.

There are more similarities than that.

Sorry, I was referring to the f22 raptor design. Which isn't the most popular, but I love it.

Yep that is what I was referring too - I think that the reason they removed the drop hinge from Jetfire's mould on the leader seekers is so as to give a visual impression of the wing split that design has.

I'm far from an IDW expert - but has there not been multiple "Seeker" designs from IDW since they got the licence depending on the artistic preferences. Those toys I mentioned are CLEARLY based on some of them.

Not only have their been multiple seeker designs; but every currently alive Seeker in IDW has a different design. Starscream has the CW Leader body (though it seems to have had a few artistic liberties taken with it recently), Thundercracker has an IDW-original one, Dirge also has an original design (which is Cybertronian), Acid Storm is the standard G1 design, and Skywarp... damn, I forgot Skywarp also has the G1 design right now. Some months back it was the WFC/FOC design.

And they've all previously had different bodies. The -ations design was the wings-down one which isn't used anymore; there's the MP-03 design they used for All Hail Megatron, there's the Raptor design they had during Costa, and then finally Starscream briefly had the WFC design in post-DOOP before switching to the Generations Armada body for Dark Cybertron before switching again to his current CW Leader for Combiner Wars onwards. Not to mention the zombie Coneheads and the pre-war Cybertronian designs; there've been a LOT of Seeker designs featured in IDW.

RAR wrote:Yep that is what I was referring too - I think that the reason they removed the drop hinge from Jetfire's mould on the leader seekers is so as to give a visual impression of the wing split that design has.

I'm far from an IDW expert - but has there not been multiple "Seeker" designs from IDW since they got the licence depending on the artistic preferences. Those toys I mentioned are CLEARLY based on some of them.

Yeah, I guess they are a bit of a mash up of the most popular designs. But they are still very obviously jetfire based, the arms and legs and no sholder pylons, and the jet is definitely not a raptor. That said, if they were voyager/deluxe scale, I'd buy them.

So...not to get to OT but...

In the world of comic books, the design especially of organic creatures (Superheros etc..) can change significantly from artist to artist and most people understand that to be "artistic license". Occasionally a character may get a new outfit, but they usually go back to what is deemed "classic"- whereas with Transformers, whenever a character appears with a new design, especially in the same series, because of their mechanical nature "I" assume they get a new body/new upgrade etc... Sometimes this is the case, and sometimes not.

In animation I get it's often done to sell toys, and always has an explanation (Even Starscream's drastically different appearance from Prime to RiD15 was given an explanation). But in IDW Transformers, for example when Starscream appears in 3 different bodies, in as many years, is this just "artistic license" , is he actually upgrading, or are we not supposed to ask those questions? .

o.supreme wrote:So...not to get to OT but...

In the world of comic books, the design especially of organic creatures (Superheros etc..) can change significantly from artist to artist and most people understand that to be "artistic license". Occasionally a character may get a new outfit, but they usually go back to what is deemed "classic"- whereas with Transformers, whenever a character appears with a new design, especially in the same series, because of their mechanical nature "I" assume they get a new body/new upgrade etc... Sometimes this is the case, and sometimes not.

In animation I get it's often done to sell toys, and always has an explanation (Even Starscream's drastically different appearance from Prime to RiD15 was given an explanation). But in IDW Transformers, for example when Starscream appears in 3 different bodies, in as many years, is this just "artistic license" , is he actually upgrading, or are we not supposed to ask those questions? .

I've often wondered this, it was especially bad in the tf ongoing, with the spotlights and all. They made a big deal about bumblebee growing up and getting a muscle car alt mode. Then he is suddenly a bug again. The Jets were the worst, ramjet died in his G1 body and his corpse was a modified raptor.

o.supreme wrote:In animation I get it's often done to sell toys, and always has an explanation (Even Starscream's drastically different appearance from Prime to RiD15 was given an explanation). But in IDW Transformers, for example when Starscream appears in 3 different bodies, in as many years, is this just "artistic license" , is he actually upgrading, or are we not supposed to ask those questions? .

Remember when Ironhide and Ratchet suddenly got heads and humanoid proportions in issue 3 of the original comic?

I think unless it's specifically stated that a character has changed body then we're "supposed" to accept it as artistic variation. But if you want to believe that Hot Rod et al suddenly decided to stop wearing their faces just when Don Figueroa started drawing the ongoing, then sure, who can stop you?

I generally accept artistic licence...within reason.

o.supreme wrote:In animation I get it's often done to sell toys, and always has an explanation (Even Starscream's drastically different appearance from Prime to RiD15 was given an explanation). But in IDW Transformers, for example when Starscream appears in 3 different bodies, in as many years, is this just "artistic license" , is he actually upgrading, or are we not supposed to ask those questions? .

Starscream's bodies were specifically to sell the new toys (Gen. Armada and CW Leader), and the explanation was provided in-story. It's actually one of the new body excuses that works out the best because Starscream's narcissistic as heck, so I can kind of imagine him doing this anyway.

Most other new bodies are the result of scanning a new alt-mode (ie when Optimus, Prowl, Arcee etc. looked different when they went to Earth following Dark Cybertron due to their new Earthen alt-modes; or indeed when everyone had a new body post-DOOP due to having Cybertronian modes now instead of Earthen). The only time I can think of where it wasn't the result of a new toy or alt-mode would be Drift and Ratchet re-appearing in Dying of the Light, though it's rather easy to imagine they simply got an upgrade or two along the way. They were in space for an awfully long time alone,
presumably fighting Decepticons; not hard to imagine they'd change up their bodies a bit to adapt.

Sigma Magnus wrote:I generally accept artistic licence...within reason.

Exactly. I mean Hot Rod has had all sorts of different looks in IDW, but just one body (that I am aware of). But characters like the Seekers, and especially Starscream seem to change quite often . I guess it would be more akin to Spider-Man being drawn by Ditko in one issue, Romita in another, then McFarlane in another. If he was in his classic, Red/Blue costume all with some variation, that would be fine. But if you read one issue and he had red/blue, then in the next issue he had his black costume, then in the next his scarlet-spider outfit, with no explanation, people would ask questions for sure.

o.supreme wrote:

Sigma Magnus wrote:I generally accept artistic licence...within reason.

Exactly. I mean Hot Rod has had all sorts of different looks in IDW, but just one body (that I am aware of). But characters like the Seekers, and especially Starscream seem to change quite often . I guess it would be more akin to Spider-Man being drawn by Ditko in one issue, Romita in another, then McFarlane in another. If he was in his classic, Red/Blue costume all with some variation, that would be fine. But if you read one issue and he had red/blue, then in the next issue he had his black costume, then in the next his scarlet-spider outfit, with no explanation, people would ask questions for sure.

Hot Rod/imus has rather clearly switched bodies and alt-modes in IDW, though. His original Cybertronian design from his Spotlight and -ations debut, his Earthen alt-mode body he took on shortly after; the other Earthen alt-mode body he took on at the start of the Costa era and finally the Cybertronian alt-mode body he's had since MTMTE #1. They don't explicitly state it, but you can kind of tell just by looking at him and realising that all of these bodies (well, his first two aren't too different) are drastically different and each have their own different alt-mode. This isn't simply a different artist drawing him differently or applying different details; all his bodies have very distinct differences.

It is remarkable how similar Beast Hunters Wheeljack looks so much like one of the Rodimus Comic designs.

Incidentally I can't speak for anyone else but when I was making "Seeker" wish lists I was referring to my desires for the follow on 2018 toyline & not to Titanmaster compatible 2017 toys.

I do have desires for the 2017-18 line that are specifically Titanmaster related - that would usually be ones that were previously Headmasters like Horribull (possibly somewhat based on Skullsmasher) or Fangry (as a Deluxe derived from Twinferno).

I'm OK with the other Targetmasters and Powermasters getting what ever the 2018 gimmic is as part of them so long as it's involving a small figure of some sort. and I'd be OK also with Getaway getting a new toy too - -even if it means they are creating Getaway and Breakaway as separate individuals.

I'd also be fine with Jazz/Stepper being in the 2018 line too.

I would also raise this question what about Inferno or Grapple are they popular enough to warrant a Leader Class toy ? Or would you be worried Hasbro might see it as an excuse to milk them and also make Artfire and Hauler out of them at one point.

RAR wrote:It is remarkable how similar Beast Hunters Wheeljack looks so much like one of the Rodimus Comic designs.

Incidentally I can't speak for anyone else but when I was making "Seeker" wish lists I was referring to my desires for the follow on 2018 toyline & not to Titanmaster compatible 2017 toys.

I do have desires for the 2017-18 line that are specifically Titanmaster related - that would usually be ones that were previously Headmasters like Horribull (possibly somewhat based on Skullsmasher) or Fangry (as a Deluxe derived from Twinferno).

I'm OK with the other Targetmasters and Powermasters getting what ever the 2018 gimmic is as part of them so long as it's involving a small figure of some sort. and I'd be OK also with Getaway getting a new toy too - -even if it means they are creating Getaway and Breakaway as separate individuals.

I'd also be fine with Jazz/Stepper being in the 2018 line too.

I would also raise this question what about Inferno or Grapple are they popular enough to warrant a Leader Class toy ? Or would you be worried Hasbro might see it as an excuse to milk them and also make Artfire and Hauler out of them at one point.

Yeah, as long as they aren't so G1 that they don't fit in with the rest of my chug collection, (looking at you fastlane) I'm good with them doing the random obscure characters. It's better than getting our 70th optimus.
As for grapple and inferno, they have decent figures, so I'd rather have someone new (velocity or the like) or really outdated toy redone.
That is if they don't give us an IDW line.(which they wont...)

Know what I find kinda ironic?

Of all G1 Optimi to get a completely accurate Voyager toy first; we don't get the IDW one, we don't get the War Within one, we don't get the actual iconic Sunbow design... we get Ginrai and Laser Prime. Priorities

Kurona wrote:Know what I find kinda ironic?

Of all G1 Optimi to get a completely accurate Voyager toy first; we don't get the IDW one, we don't get the War Within one, we don't get the actual iconic Sunbow design... we get Ginrai and Laser Prime. Priorities

Though as with the Seekers there are really good (in robot mode at least) Optimi in the Robotmasters, Hybrid, Legends, Classic Deluxe, Masterpiece, smaller Masterpiece...and it's not like the Classics Voyager mold is a hot mess or anything. There's just that little lapse in the middle scale.

Diem wrote:

Kurona wrote:Know what I find kinda ironic?

Of all G1 Optimi to get a completely accurate Voyager toy first; we don't get the IDW one, we don't get the War Within one, we don't get the actual iconic Sunbow design... we get Ginrai and Laser Prime. Priorities

Though as with the Seekers there are really good (in robot mode at least) Optimi in the Robotmasters, Hybrid, Legends, Classic Deluxe, Masterpiece, smaller Masterpiece...and it's not like the Classics Voyager mold is a hot mess or anything. There's just that little lapse in the middle scale.

Very true, and I do love my Classics Optimus - and, honestly, I kind of love the look of TR Optimus too - though I don't think it's a particular stretch to say that G1 Optimus is one of if not the most iconic design of the entire franchise, so it'd be nice to have him leading the CHUG dudes. Still, I'll live.

With all this talk of bodie changes vs artistic license, there's one more point to consider: Erroneous bodies.

Take this Bumblebee collage, for example:



Officially, in-fiction, there are only supposed to be two body forms in all of these.

The first two pics are the same body, just drawn differently by different artists, so it's artistic license.

But the third is Bee's G1 body, which he wasn't supposed to be in since that comic took place at a time when he was in the body represented by the first two pics, so it's an erroneous body on part of the artist, and considered a continuity error that we the readers must pretend is instead the same body as seen in the first two pics.

The fourth, fifth, seventh, eighth, and ninth ones are all the same body, which is a new body that Bee upgraded into at the end of his Costa Era mini-series, and which he continued to have all the way up to the end of Chaos. Like with the visual differences of the first two pics, the differences between these five pics are chocked up to artistic license.

The sixth pic is the same body as in the first two, with artistic license involved. However, the issue this particular pic comes from took place at a point when Bee is supposed to be in his new body represented by Pics 4-5 and 7-9, making this one be yet another continuity erroneous body that we have to pretend is instead the upgraded body.

Really puts AKOM giving Optimus a white backpack into perspective.

Sabrblade wrote:The sixth pic is the same body as in the first two, with artistic license involved. However, the issue this particular pic comes from took place at a point when Bee is supposed to be in his new body represented by Pics 4-5 and 7-9, making this one be yet another continuity erroneous body that we have to pretend is instead the upgraded body.

Great post man, you can tell some work went into that.
Yeah B suddenly having his old body back really threw me on my first read through. I was like didn't we just have this whole coming of age thing and now it's just gone?
Part of it was IDW's fault for not communicating with their artists better, and for using so many in such a short time, and another is on the artists for not researching the comics they were drawing.

LE0KING wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The sixth pic is the same body as in the first two, with artistic license involved. However, the issue this particular pic comes from took place at a point when Bee is supposed to be in his new body represented by Pics 4-5 and 7-9, making this one be yet another continuity erroneous body that we have to pretend is instead the upgraded body.

Great post man, you can tell some work went into that.

Thanks, but, the collage isn't mine. It's from the Wiki.

Ok, anybody ever wonder why some stores don't restock the Titan Master figures? I know I do, and I may know why...

They keep putting the RiD 2015 Legions on their pegs!

Good grief, this is AoE Power Battlers vs. Deluxe Class all over again! Yeah, I did put the Legions on their proper pegs, leaving the Titan Master ones empty. Maybe they'll get the hint next time...

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Ok, anybody ever wonder why some stores don't restock the Titan Master figures? I know I do, and I may know why...

They keep putting the RiD 2015 Legions on their pegs!

Good grief, this is AoE Power Battlers vs. Deluxe Class all over again! Yeah, I did put the Legions on their proper pegs, leaving the Titan Master ones empty. Maybe they'll get the hint next time...

I have the opposite problem. Swimming in tms. Haven't seen a legion in months.

LE0KING wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Ok, anybody ever wonder why some stores don't restock the Titan Master figures? I know I do, and I may know why...

They keep putting the RiD 2015 Legions on their pegs!

Good grief, this is AoE Power Battlers vs. Deluxe Class all over again! Yeah, I did put the Legions on their proper pegs, leaving the Titan Master ones empty. Maybe they'll get the hint next time...

I have the opposite problem. Swimming in tms. Haven't seen a legion in months.

same here