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[ZeroWolf]

I have a theory about Optimus Prime and its to do with the 35th Anniversary releases. See they knew from planning that the event would happen in the Siege line and what better way of celebrating then having cel shaded redeco of Prime and Megs, the two most important characters (aka the ones people will most likely know). Now they need a prime in the Siege line, and one at the Voyager price point. They couldn't do a full on earth mode as people would cry foul but they were hamstrung by the need to be as toon accurate to bot mode as possible (which meant looking like he turned into a earth truck) hence we got what we got.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

@ZeroWolf There's also the fact that PotP Optimus the year immediately before was also full-on Earth Mode G1 Optimus (including trailer), so SIEGE Prime had to be different.

@Gauntlet101010 There still has yet to be so much as a whisper of any Datsuns other than Smokescreen getting re-done in ER, and SIEGE Smokescreen was the most "off" of the SIEGE Datsuns by far as well as being a limited-access exclusive.
What was the point of SIEGE Prime? To have a new Voyager G1 cartoon Prime that didn't have Combiner Wars baggage, and to see if they could give him a Cybertronian mode (and I think the ginormous roof lights and transparent grille do a lot towards that end).
ER Prime is both an Earth Mode version and a more expensive "With extras" version. Sentinel_Primal makes a good point: SIEGE is the version you can get if you just want a Voyager G1 Optimus, ER is the version you can get if you want to pay $20 more for a box on wheels that unfolds into a field command post.

The only purchase ER is making me regret at all is PotP Starscream.

[o.supreme]

ER Prime is the first Prime I have purchased since CW, and only the 2nd one I've purchased since getting back into collecting. (Well I got TR PM Prime, but that was mostly because I wanted a Super Ginrai, which eventually came out...but I digress).

I only got CW Prime obviously because of the combining gimmick. To me ER Optimus Prime is the first honest-to-goodness Prime that calls to mind the image of the original, and you can take that all the way back to Classics 2006 (not counting MP, or of course any re-release of the original). It is also the first IMHO to not let its gimmick get in the way. You can easily see this toy could have been made without the AIR Lock system, but it is a nice little feature to be able to connect Prime's trailer to other bases and battle stations.

[Sabrblade]

My main issue with a lot of the Earthrise figures is that they're sporting Earth Modes when they haven't even arrived yet. Which I think is robbing a lot of us from more cybertronian modes to mesh with the Siege figures.

This. Right. Here.

I would've loved to keep up the Siege styled alts, especially seeing Cliffjumpers alt mode in Galaxies, I would have far preferred that alt mode to this one no matter how good the toy is (I'll find out soon).

I wish we could have kept going in that direction, it was a nice unity of futuristic "alien-esque" alt modes

I thought it was the story of the journey to Earth,

Yes. The journey, rather than the destination.

[Tuned Agent]

From a collector's perspective, I view Siege and Earthrise as two parts of the same (very G1 cartoon-centric) whole. I prefer Siege, but that's simply because Siege had more figures that interested me than ER does. But since G1 cartoon-centric isn't really my thing, many of the figures just don't interest me like they do for much of the rest of the fandom.

From a more cynical perspective, however, I can't help but get the feeling that much of Siege was little more than what Hasbro did with Bumblebee in TLK's toyline, only to a much larger scale. Release a "lesser" version first, then release a "better" version later after everyone has bought the first one.

Okay, first off, there's a qualifier on the TLK Bumblebee thing: The proper version obviously wasn't ready in time for the movie's release, but they couldn't very well not have a Bumblebee on the shelves when it came out. Would have been smarter to reuse the DotM mold rather than the AoE mold though.

I didn't realize Hasbro had put out a statement about that. Or are you just guessing? And if you are, why is your interpretation any more accurate than mine?

Also, I really don't see the SIEGE versions as "lesser" versions - except for SELECTS Smokescreen. I see them as different versions. Heck, since ER Megs' spear looks clunky compared to the SIEGE version's sword, I'd actually call the SIEGE version of Megs the superior one.

I guess I should clarify what I mean when I say "lesser". I don't mean that they're less quality toys or have less effort put into them, I mean that they're less G1-accurate just enough to get fans interested when a dead-on accurate version is made.

I understand your point about the Siege figures being "different" versions, and I can whole-heartedly agree with that for the seekers. The Siege and ER seeker molds try to be different from each other. But Siege and ER molds for Optimus, Megatron, and the datsuns... don't. They're pretty much the same, the ER molds are just that much more G1-accurate in both modes.

And yes, ER Prime got a trailer, but I'm talking about the base figure. And the trailer doesn't necessarily give a reason for Siege Prime's existence. Siege Prime easily could have gotten the trailer treatment had he been leader class, and they easily could have just released a version of ER Prime without the trailer.

Food for thought: If the Siege and ER versions of these figures were released at the same time, would you buy both? Why or why not?

[Jeddostotle7]

From a collector's perspective, I view Siege and Earthrise as two parts of the same (very G1 cartoon-centric) whole. I prefer Siege, but that's simply because Siege had more figures that interested me than ER does. But since G1 cartoon-centric isn't really my thing, many of the figures just don't interest me like they do for much of the rest of the fandom.

From a more cynical perspective, however, I can't help but get the feeling that much of Siege was little more than what Hasbro did with Bumblebee in TLK's toyline, only to a much larger scale. Release a "lesser" version first, then release a "better" version later after everyone has bought the first one.

Okay, first off, there's a qualifier on the TLK Bumblebee thing: The proper version obviously wasn't ready in time for the movie's release, but they couldn't very well not have a Bumblebee on the shelves when it came out. Would have been smarter to reuse the DotM mold rather than the AoE mold though.

I didn't realize Hasbro had put out a statement about that. Or are you just guessing? And if you are, why is your interpretation any more accurate than mine?

Also, I really don't see the SIEGE versions as "lesser" versions - except for SELECTS Smokescreen. I see them as different versions. Heck, since ER Megs' spear looks clunky compared to the SIEGE version's sword, I'd actually call the SIEGE version of Megs the superior one.

I guess I should clarify what I mean when I say "lesser". I don't mean that they're less quality toys or have less effort put into them, I mean that they're less G1-accurate just enough to get fans interested when a dead-on accurate version is made.

I understand your point about the Siege figures being "different" versions, and I can whole-heartedly agree with that for the seekers. The Siege and ER seeker molds try to be different from each other. But Siege and ER molds for Optimus, Megatron, and the datsuns... don't. They're pretty much the same, the ER molds are just that much more G1-accurate in both modes.

And yes, ER Prime got a trailer, but I'm talking about the base figure. And the trailer doesn't necessarily give a reason for Siege Prime's existence. Siege Prime easily could have gotten the trailer treatment had he been leader class, and they easily could have just released a version of ER Prime without the trailer.

Food for thought: If the Siege and ER versions of these figures were released at the same time, would you buy both? Why or why not?

Honestly, I think it might be as simple as they needed an Optimus that year, and they knew they'd be doing a Leader-class very Earth-y one with a trailer soon enough, that they might as well put one in Voyager class, and use the "Cybertronian form" thing partially as an excuse for why his kibble doesn't clean up as well due to the lesser parts/engineering budget of Voyager class. They certainly couldn't have done Earth-form Earthrise Optimus in Voyager class without it getting more kibbly.

[ZeroWolf]

I also think it was to have a voyager class Prime on shelves to face off against Megs, with the leader Class slots going to Ultra Magnus and Shockwave. They'd clearly planned UM to be retooled into Galaxy Upgrade OP.

There's also another simple fact. It's not just collectors who are buying these figures. A parent buying their kid an Optimus isn't going to care about its looks, but a voyager class price is easier on the wallet (the kid will have to either save up or wait till events to get the leader Class version)

End of the day, are people really complaining that they bought the Siege figures? Haven't people had fun with the figures?

[Gauntlet101010]

End of the day, are people really complaining that they bought the Siege figures?

Well ... I guess I kinda am, yeah.

It really depends on why you bought Siege Prime. For me, I heard how great it was. And I figured that it would be this trilogy's Prime and that it would be the closest to what I actually wanted that I could get.

And, well ... right on one count wrong on the other. It's pretty great. But it's not quite what I really want and I have to really focus on ER's faults (and my own shelf space) on why I shouldn't get him.

So Siege OP represents buyers remorse, even if he's a great figure all on his own.

I personally think they should have made the alt. mode very different if they were gonna do Prime. Or just not do Prime at all.

Edit:
TBH, I sort of feel the same way about Netflix's Ultra Magnus. Of course pictures haven't come out yet, but if there's any toy that could improve with a new deco it's that guy.

[william-james88]

So Siege OP represents buyers remorse, even if he's a great figure all on his own.

I personally think they should have made the alt. mode very different if they were gonna do Prime. Or just not do Prime at all.

They have to do Prime, not a series will go by without a Prime on the shelves.

Anyways, I have 0 buyer's remorse for Siege Prime. I actually think he has a better looking robot mode than Earthrise Prime and he is the definitive Prime in my collection.

[sol magnus]

My main issue with a lot of the Earthrise figures is that they're sporting Earth Modes when they haven't even arrived yet. Which I think is robbing a lot of us from more cybertronian modes to mesh with the Siege figures.

This. Right. Here.

I would've loved to keep up the Siege styled alts, especially seeing Cliffjumpers alt mode in Galaxies, I would have far preferred that alt mode to this one no matter how good the toy is (I'll find out soon).

I wish we could have kept going in that direction, it was a nice unity of futuristic "alien-esque" alt modes

I thought it was the story of the journey to Earth,

Yes. The journey, rather than the destination.

Then maybe you all should blame Hasbro for the way they worded their storyline, because the packaging clearly has them on Earth. If they weren't going to get Earth modes, they could could have called it Earthtrip or Spacevoyage and continued the Cybertron alt-modes.

But they didn't.

I've already said I would have loved them to continue on making Pre-Earth modes, it's largely why I bought into Siege in the first place, but they decided to give us a year of that and a year of this. Maybe next year we get more Cybertonic alternate/futuristic modes, maybe it'll be a mix. We shall see.

[Evil Eye]

Honestly, with a few exceptions, most of the Siege vehicles can pass as slightly exotic Earth modes. I always liked the idea of the Transformers arriving on Earth in the future, where technology has advanced considerably and human weapons are actually dangerous to them, hence the need for disguise, and Siege fits right in with that.

The only real exceptions to that rule are the Tetrajets (who are too iconic as the Cybertronian Seeker design to pass as future Earth jets), Shockwave (who is fine anyway, as Shockwave almost never has an Earth mode even when he's on Earth) and Soundwave (whose alt mode, cool as it is, is a bit too abstract to work as an Earth vehicle).

[ZeroWolf]

Honestly, with a few exceptions, most of the Siege vehicles can pass as slightly exotic Earth modes. I always liked the idea of the Transformers arriving on Earth in the future, where technology has advanced considerably and human weapons are actually dangerous to them, hence the need for disguise, and Siege fits right in with that.

The only real exceptions to that rule are the Tetrajets (who are too iconic as the Cybertronian Seeker design to pass as future Earth jets), Shockwave (who is fine anyway, as Shockwave almost never has an Earth mode even when he's on Earth) and Soundwave (whose alt mode, cool as it is, is a bit too abstract to work as an Earth vehicle).

Thats why I've always wanted to do a Mobile Suit Gundam vs Transformers fan fic of some kind, where the Transformers brought their war to earth then left again, and from the debris, humanity learned mobile suit technology to rebuild and rearm. Then the tfs encounter earth again... And well, you can guess what would happen next.

Maybe that could be a theme for a future generations trilogy, going back to the Classics design philosophy, same characters updated alt modes. Or go completely insane and do a line where it's movie alt modes but G1ish bot mode

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

From a collector's perspective, I view Siege and Earthrise as two parts of the same (very G1 cartoon-centric) whole. I prefer Siege, but that's simply because Siege had more figures that interested me than ER does. But since G1 cartoon-centric isn't really my thing, many of the figures just don't interest me like they do for much of the rest of the fandom.

From a more cynical perspective, however, I can't help but get the feeling that much of Siege was little more than what Hasbro did with Bumblebee in TLK's toyline, only to a much larger scale. Release a "lesser" version first, then release a "better" version later after everyone has bought the first one.

Okay, first off, there's a qualifier on the TLK Bumblebee thing: The proper version obviously wasn't ready in time for the movie's release, but they couldn't very well not have a Bumblebee on the shelves when it came out. Would have been smarter to reuse the DotM mold rather than the AoE mold though.

I didn't realize Hasbro had put out a statement about that. Or are you just guessing? And if you are, why is your interpretation any more accurate than mine?

I'm making an educated guess based on things that have happened before, AoE and TLK seeming to have lower investment in their toylines than the first three movies, the fact that toys take time to develop and the movie kinda set an inflexible deadline for having product on the shelves, and the fact that Bumblebee is a staple character that they couldn't not have a toy of in stores when the movie came out.
Also, Hasbro isn't Electronic Arts.

Also, I really don't see the SIEGE versions as "lesser" versions - except for SELECTS Smokescreen. I see them as different versions. Heck, since ER Megs' spear looks clunky compared to the SIEGE version's sword, I'd actually call the SIEGE version of Megs the superior one.

I guess I should clarify what I mean when I say "lesser". I don't mean that they're less quality toys or have less effort put into them, I mean that they're less G1-accurate just enough to get fans interested when a dead-on accurate version is made.

I know that that's what you meant,and I don't agree with you.

But Siege and ER molds for Optimus, Megatron, and the datsuns... don't. They're pretty much the same, the ER molds are just that much more G1-accurate in both modes.

1. For the umpteenth bloody time, Smokescreen is the only confirmed ER Datsun so far. And Smokescreen's SIEGE version was A. extra-off compared to Prowl and Bluestreak and B. not as accessible.
2a. Optimus tries to be different with the giant roof lights that no Earth truck I've ever seen has, and the see-through grille, and I think it works.
2b. There's only so much you can do with G1 Optimus while sticking to the cartoon robot mode.
3. You're counting MEGATRON in the "That much more G1-accurate"?
Aside from the silver that the production version may not actually have, he's not really any more G1 accurate in EITHER mode. Robot mode is about the same and he's minus the red accents, his spear is less G1-accurate than the SIEGE version's sword (which is based on one that came with some versions of Megatron's G1 toy), and the altmode is still completely wrong. Megatron is the one where I specifically identified the SIEGE version as being the superior one.

And yes, ER Prime got a trailer, but I'm talking about the base figure. And the trailer doesn't necessarily give a reason for Siege Prime's existence. Siege Prime easily could have gotten the trailer treatment had he been leader class,

No, he couldn't have. Because they had just done a G1 cartoon Optimus Prime with trailer at the Leader-class price point in Power of the Primes. Did you completely overlook that? Thanks to PotP, the Warden-obligatory Leader Optimus in SIEGE had to be something different. But they still wanted a more G1 Optimus in there (As far as Generations goes, Optimus is the new Bumblebee).
Also IMO it's less "the trailer justifies SIEGE Prime's existence" and more "The trailer justifies Earthrise Prime's existence".

and they easily could have just released a version of ER Prime without the trailer.

But then they wouldn't have had a G1 Optimus at the Voyager price point in SIEGE.

Food for thought: If the Siege and ER versions of these figures were released at the same time, would you buy both? Why or why not?

Seekers? Yes. Optimus? Yes. Smokescreen? No, because unlike with Prowl and Bluestreak there's the factor of the racing add-ons to his car mode so I'd only get the Earthrise (especially since that's also pretty sure not to be an exclusive). Megatron? No. I'd only get the SIEGE version.

[Wolfman Jake]

What I think a lot of adult collectors don't appreciate with the Siege and Earthrise Smokescreen situation is that the "Generations Selects" line that we love so much isn't very accessible to kids buying these toys, especially on a casual basis. Siege Smokescreen was an online only offering with a pre-order window to match production to demand and minimize waste. That's very different than a mainline, mass market release, which is what Earthrise Smokescreen is. We already got Prowl in Siege and Bluestreak was available as a Walmart exclusive for months last year. You can STILL find him in some areas. If you're only buying what you can physically get in a brick and mortar store, then Earthrise Smokescreen isn't really a repeat, but a fulfillment of the Datsun Autobot trio that started in Siege.

With that said, I totally do want an Earthrise Prowl and Bluestreak based off the new Smokescreen mold, but I understand if those will be relegated to "Generations Selects" or some other exclusive outlet this time.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

And for those of us who didn't get SELECTS Smokescreen, he's now hard to find.

[Sabrblade]

And for those of us who didn't get SELECTS Smokescreen, he's now hard to find.

He's still in stock at Action Robo.

[sol magnus]

What I think a lot of adult collectors don't appreciate with the Siege and Earthrise Smokescreen situation is that the "Generations Selects" line that we love so much isn't very accessible to kids buying these toys, especially on a casual basis. Siege Smokescreen was an online only offering with a pre-order window to match production to demand and minimize waste. That's very different than a mainline, mass market release, which is what Earthrise Smokescreen is. We already got Prowl in Siege and Bluestreak was available as a Walmart exclusive for months last year. You can STILL find him in some areas. If you're only buying what you can physically get in a brick and mortar store, then Earthrise Smokescreen isn't really a repeat, but a fulfillment of the Datsun Autobot trio that started in Siege.

With that said, I totally do want an Earthrise Prowl and Bluestreak based off the new Smokescreen mold, but I understand if those will be relegated to "Generations Selects" or some other exclusive outlet this time.

The logic is sound.

[Jeddostotle7]

With that said, I totally do want an Earthrise Prowl and Bluestreak based off the new Smokescreen mold, but I understand if those will be relegated to "Generations Selects" or some other exclusive outlet this time.

Honestly, same. As much as Earthrise Smokescreen would probably work well with Siege Prowl and Bluestreak, I do want a Prowl and Bluestreak from the Earthrise Smokescreen mold (preferably with a retooled front end/chest and rear end/feet to remove the racing elements). I think it just looks better than the Siege Datsun mold proportionally.

[Sentinel_Primal]

With that said, I totally do want an Earthrise Prowl and Bluestreak based off the new Smokescreen mold, but I understand if those will be relegated to "Generations Selects" or some other exclusive outlet this time.

Honestly, same. As much as Earthrise Smokescreen would probably work well with Siege Prowl and Bluestreak, I do want a Prowl and Bluestreak from the Earthrise Smokescreen mold (preferably with a retooled front end/chest and rear end/feet to remove the racing elements). I think it just looks better than the Siege Datsun mold proportionally.

If they do a significantly retooled Prowl from this mold and use that as the basis for a blue sided Bluestreak, then I'd be interested, but I'd rather they be SELECTS rather than mainline. As it stands, Siege Bluestreak and Smokescreen work well enough imo.

[Jeddostotle7]

With that said, I totally do want an Earthrise Prowl and Bluestreak based off the new Smokescreen mold, but I understand if those will be relegated to "Generations Selects" or some other exclusive outlet this time.

Honestly, same. As much as Earthrise Smokescreen would probably work well with Siege Prowl and Bluestreak, I do want a Prowl and Bluestreak from the Earthrise Smokescreen mold (preferably with a retooled front end/chest and rear end/feet to remove the racing elements). I think it just looks better than the Siege Datsun mold proportionally.

If they do a significantly retooled Prowl from this mold and use that as the basis for a blue sided Bluestreak, then I'd be interested, but I'd rather they be SELECTS rather than mainline. As it stands, Siege Bluestreak and Smokescreen work well enough imo.

Yeah, they do, I just like consistency between my Datsun Bros aside from the character-specific elements like the lightbar or airdam/spoiler. Especially when, as I mentioned, the proportions on the newer mold are better IMO.

[JoeIsNotCool]

New to this thread, haven't really kept up with WFC aside from news posts. Not sure if this has been asked already, but what characters are people hoping for in this line?

Personally, I'm hoping for a micromaster Blackout (purely to get a cool picture of the 07 SS with their G1 counterparts), a new Sandstorm, maybe a G1 styled Lockdown or something, and maybe Warpath. Curious as to what other people are looking/hoping for!

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

There's actually a separate thread for "What WFC Trilogy figures do you want to see?"

I'm hoping for the remaining Minibots, a Leader Rodimus Prime that works like the original toy, a new Wreck-Gar, Sandstorm, perhaps a Cyclonus, a Commander-class Ultra Magnus (so that he can have a fully-functional G1 trailer)...

[ZeroWolf]

I reckon the next commander class will be a con, but who? Plus I doubt you'll ever get that commander class Magnus, it'd throw his robot mode completely out of scale. Rodimus however, I can see him in part three. Would be a good thing to go along with Unicron. Ditto for Galvaltron, Cyclonus etc. All depends on where the story goes really L, but I'd be suprised if plans weren't altered when they learned unicron had been funded.

I'd still love for unicron to be given his own army in the fiction (one that wasn't just Beast Wars characters with added spikes) and a new Sideways to lead them

[JoeIsNotCool]

I reckon the next commander class will be a con, but who? Plus I doubt you'll ever get that commander class Magnus, it'd throw his robot mode completely out of scale. Rodimus however, I can see him in part three. Would be a good thing to go along with Unicron. Ditto for Galvaltron, Cyclonus etc. All depends on where the story goes really L, but I'd be suprised if plans weren't altered when they learned unicron had been funded.

I'd still love for unicron to be given his own army in the fiction (one that wasn't just Beast Wars characters with added spikes) and a new Sideways to lead them

Maybe a commander Deathsaurus? (I hope I spelt that right)

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Commander would be too big for Deathy. Also, asking if you spelt his name right.. Now there's a loaded question

I reckon the next commander class will be a con, but who? Plus I doubt you'll ever get that commander class Magnus, it'd throw his robot mode completely out of scale.

Hey, they did it in the MP line (which also cares about scale) didn't they? And Commander Class is really the only way to get a trailer for him that can carry 4 Deluxes, especially a G1-accurate trailer.

Rodimus however, I can see him in part three. Would be a good thing to go along with Unicron. Ditto for Galvaltron, Cyclonus etc.

IMO we're covered as far as Galvatron goes, but maybe they'd reissue him with tweaks.

All depends on where the story goes really

Eh, aside from stuff like the Netflix redecoes, I'm fairly sure the story has no real bearing on these toys. For one thing, the story they're really being made to go with is the G1 cartoon. For another, the new fiction is being made to go with the toys, not the other way 'round. As the original cartoon was, as Beast Wars was, as RiD (2001) was, as the Unicron Trilogy was, as certain elements of Animated were...

I'd still love for unicron to be given his own army in the fiction (one that wasn't just Beast Wars characters with added spikes)

Is that an IDW reference or are you referring to the Universe (2003) storyline?