Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[ZeroWolf]

IDW reference, in their unicron event, his army was basically as I said, beast wars characters with added spikes (like Primal and bw megs). As for story I meant what hasbro cooks up for the fiction on the toys (like why the Earthrise stuff comes with map pieces. The little blurb they put out once they announce a new toy line. The thing the cartoon will end up based on.)

[Seibertron]

I'd still love for unicron to be given his own army in the fiction (one that wasn't just Beast Wars characters with added spikes)

Is that an IDW reference or are you referring to the Universe (2003) storyline?

I think ZeroWolf is referring to the Japanese Beast Wars Neo Blendtrons Elphaorpha, Rartorata and Drancron.

Or not!

[ZeroWolf]

poor Blendtrons, had Unicron's IDW army just been more of them (plenty of chances to get creative with designs) I'd been quite happy with that.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Personally, I would not mind a commander Deathsaurus, it would mean a Commander Star Saber eventually. Besides, a giant death-chicken-kaiju would be awesome to see at Commander sizes!

[LinaNui]

I reckon the next commander class will be a con, but who? Plus I doubt you'll ever get that commander class Magnus, it'd throw his robot mode completely out of scale. Rodimus however, I can see him in part three. Would be a good thing to go along with Unicron. Ditto for Galvaltron, Cyclonus etc. All depends on where the story goes really L, but I'd be suprised if plans weren't altered when they learned unicron had been funded.

I'd still love for unicron to be given his own army in the fiction (one that wasn't just Beast Wars characters with added spikes) and a new Sideways to lead them

I am really hoping for a Commander class Tidal Wave to be next! We(I) need a new figure of him!

[JoeIsNotCool]

Commander class could be a good way to get a new Overlord too, but I don't know if they would

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Commander class could be a good way to get a new Overlord too, but I don't know if they would

A Commander Class Overlord would be good to see, yes. It'd make him scale properly fiction-wise with Legends God Ginrai, and allow for a better base mode than the Titans Return version has. I mean, the base mode on that one isn't horrible or anything, but it does utterly pale in comparison to the G1 toy's.

The problem with a Commander-class Star Saber is that you would then also need a Commander-class Victory Leo.

[Sabrblade]

The thing is, Overlord, Star Saber, Victory Leo, and Deathsaurus are all more or less Combiner-sized in Masterforce and Victory, so they would all have to be Commander class toys to get them that size.

Meanwhile, Galaxy Shuttle was even bigger, so he'd have to use the old sSupreme class of the Unicron Trilogy to be proper sized (Titan class is too big for him, unless he were a MP).

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

The thing is, Overlord, Star Saber, Victory Leo, and Deathsaurus are all more or less Combiner-sized in Masterforce and Victory, so they would all have to be Commander class toys to get them that size.

I suppose that's a fair point. Of course, we'd then be talking like 3 or 4 years to get them all if Hasbro does them. Unless maybe Victory Saber was done as a Titan.

[Sentinel_Primal]

I doubt Overlord's going to be a Commander, based on the fact that his TR figure is still on sale for $30 in a lot of places. Deathsaurus is a maybe because fans would like it, and kids would see him turning into a dragon and be intrigued. Star Saber is a bit trickier. I could see a POTP sized leader version of him and a POTP sized leader God Bomber like Victory Leo being retailed as leaders in the mainline, or being sold as a Commander box set. Or as a Vs pack, they could have all three as a Titan similar to the Constructicons and Predacons, with the extra budget being used to fill in gaps and add more weapons. It all depends on how Hasbro thinks kids would like them, and how they can try to make sure that the stock gets bought so it's not a situation of Overlord or some older Titans going on a deep discount and staying there for months

[Sabrblade]

Meanwhile, MP Star Saber currently works as a good stand in for a CHUG Star Saber since the MP scales much better with CHUG toys than with its fellow MPs, being the size of a Commander class or CW Combiner toy.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I doubt Overlord's going to be a Commander, based on the fact that his TR figure is still on sale for $30 in a lot of places. Deathsaurus is a maybe because fans would like it, and kids would see him turning into a dragon and be intrigued.

Fans would like a Commander-class Overlord too. TR/Legends Overlord is too small next to Legends Ginrai, and only does so much. Kids would be intrigued by a Commander-class Overlord too, both from the size and from the base mode. Because a Commander-class Overlord would be able to have a base mode more along the lines of this:

[Tuned Agent]

I apologize for the late response, and for dragging this discussion back up again.

From a collector's perspective, I view Siege and Earthrise as two parts of the same (very G1 cartoon-centric) whole. I prefer Siege, but that's simply because Siege had more figures that interested me than ER does. But since G1 cartoon-centric isn't really my thing, many of the figures just don't interest me like they do for much of the rest of the fandom.

From a more cynical perspective, however, I can't help but get the feeling that much of Siege was little more than what Hasbro did with Bumblebee in TLK's toyline, only to a much larger scale. Release a "lesser" version first, then release a "better" version later after everyone has bought the first one.

Okay, first off, there's a qualifier on the TLK Bumblebee thing: The proper version obviously wasn't ready in time for the movie's release, but they couldn't very well not have a Bumblebee on the shelves when it came out. Would have been smarter to reuse the DotM mold rather than the AoE mold though.

I didn't realize Hasbro had put out a statement about that. Or are you just guessing? And if you are, why is your interpretation any more accurate than mine?

I'm making an educated guess based on things that have happened before, AoE and TLK seeming to have lower investment in their toylines than the first three movies, the fact that toys take time to develop and the movie kinda set an inflexible deadline for having product on the shelves, and the fact that Bumblebee is a staple character that they couldn't not have a toy of in stores when the movie came out.

And at the end of the day, it's just a guess. You have your opinion, and I have mine. That doesn't mean either one of us right.

Also, Hasbro isn't Electronic Arts.

Thankfully. Even so, Hasbro is still a multi-billion dollar company that knows how much kids love Bee, and have recently woken up to the fact that a large portion of the fanbase is hungry for G1 cartoon-accurate updates. Why not milk it as much as they can?

But Siege and ER molds for Optimus, Megatron, and the datsuns... don't. They're pretty much the same, the ER molds are just that much more G1-accurate in both modes.

1. For the umpteenth bloody time, Smokescreen is the only confirmed ER Datsun so far. And Smokescreen's SIEGE version was A. extra-off compared to Prowl and Bluestreak and B. not as accessible.

Yes, technically Smokescreen is the only one confirmed yet. But if we're honest with ourselves, there's a better chance of a new Animated Prowl being made and it being redecoed into Bluestreak and Smokescreen than the other two datsun bros not being made from the ER mold. The same thing can be said for the seekers, Starscream is the only specific one that has been confirmed.

2a. Optimus tries to be different with the giant roof lights that no Earth truck I've ever seen has, and the see-through grille, and I think it works.
2b. There's only so much you can do with G1 Optimus while sticking to the cartoon robot mode.

That's my point though. If Hasbro had truly intended Siege Optimus to represent a "different" look/design for the character, even if just for the alt mode, they easily could have done more to make him different that a few aesthetic changes to his G1 truck mode. They did it with the Siege seekers, why couldn't they have done it with others?

3. You're counting MEGATRON in the "That much more G1-accurate"?

He doesn't have battle damage splatter and his shins, pelvis and headsculpt are all more G1 accurate, so yes, by definition he is "that much more G1-accurate".

And yes, ER Prime got a trailer, but I'm talking about the base figure. And the trailer doesn't necessarily give a reason for Siege Prime's existence. Siege Prime easily could have gotten the trailer treatment had he been leader class,

No, he couldn't have. Because they had just done a G1 cartoon Optimus Prime with trailer at the Leader-class price point in Power of the Primes. Did you completely overlook that? Thanks to PotP, the Warden-obligatory Leader Optimus in SIEGE had to be something different. But they still wanted a more G1 Optimus in there (As far as Generations goes, Optimus is the new Bumblebee).
Also IMO it's less "the trailer justifies SIEGE Prime's existence" and more "The trailer justifies Earthrise Prime's existence".

No, I didn't overlook that, it's just not relevant anymore. ER Optimus is no less different from PotP Optimus than Siege Starscream is from PotP Starscream, than ER Smokescreen is from Siege Smokescreen, or than ER Megatron is from Siege Megatron. Your point would have made sense a couple years ago, but not now. I will agree that they couldn't really have done that in Siege, but that's because they needed a reuse for the Ultra Magnus mold.

and they easily could have just released a version of ER Prime without the trailer.

But then they wouldn't have had a G1 Optimus at the Voyager price point in SIEGE.

I meant in Siege. The Siege and ER molds share parts, and given how retools are done today it's entirely possible that they were designed at the same time.

At the end of the day, these are just our opinions. We don't have to agree. At least the toys are good, no matter how redundant.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

But Siege and ER molds for Optimus, Megatron, and the datsuns... don't. They're pretty much the same, the ER molds are just that much more G1-accurate in both modes.

1. For the umpteenth bloody time, Smokescreen is the only confirmed ER Datsun so far. And Smokescreen's SIEGE version was A. extra-off compared to Prowl and Bluestreak and B. not as accessible.

Yes, technically Smokescreen is the only one confirmed yet. But if we're honest with ourselves, there's a better chance of a new Animated Prowl being made and it being redecoed into Bluestreak and Smokescreen than the other two datsun bros not being made from the ER mold. The same thing can be said for the seekers, Starscream is the only specific one that has been confirmed.

Except it's not exactly the same. The Coneheads all had appearances on Sky Lynx's boxart and Thrust is outright named in a listing. There have been no such hints of the other Datsuns. That's why in another post I said there hasn't been so much as a whisper of them.

2a. Optimus tries to be different with the giant roof lights that no Earth truck I've ever seen has, and the see-through grille, and I think it works.
2b. There's only so much you can do with G1 Optimus while sticking to the cartoon robot mode.

That's my point though. If Hasbro had truly intended Siege Optimus to represent a "different" look/design for the character, even if just for the alt mode, they easily could have done more to make him different that a few aesthetic changes to his G1 truck mode. They did it with the Siege seekers, why couldn't they have done it with others?

Because they were shackled by the cartoon robot modes. Optimus' robot mode is too boxy and too simple to be able to do too much else with his truck mode; there's not a lot to him that could have been repurposed like they did with the Seekers' ducts and wings.

3. You're counting MEGATRON in the "That much more G1-accurate"?

He doesn't have battle damage splatter and his shins, pelvis and headsculpt are all more G1 accurate, so yes, by definition he is "that much more G1-accurate".

1. IMO battle damage doesn't count. 2. The shins are still tank bits rather than Bakelite-grip Walther handle, so not really. They're slightly more accurate at the front, but it's not enough to make a real difference. 3. The pelvis differences are trivial. 4. SIEGE Megatron's headsculpt is equally G1-accurate. Megatron's head in the cartoon is a bloody mess, because it's actually based on a misinterpretation of his toy's head as seen in the packaging art (the same thing that turned Hound's rifle into a small pistol); this results in a lot of inconsistency in how it's drawn. Whether the outer helmet's cheeks are angled in and by how much perpetually fluctuates from episode to episode and shot to shot (even in the damn movie!), same for whether it's drawn with the toy-accurate ridges on the back (which the SIEGE head has), the exact shape of it constantly changes... So there's a fair bit of wiggle room as far as the accuracy of Megs' stupid noggin. I personally favor the SIEGE head more, since it has that extra touch of toy detail.

And yes, ER Prime got a trailer, but I'm talking about the base figure. And the trailer doesn't necessarily give a reason for Siege Prime's existence. Siege Prime easily could have gotten the trailer treatment had he been leader class,

No, he couldn't have. Because they had just done a G1 cartoon Optimus Prime with trailer at the Leader-class price point in Power of the Primes. Did you completely overlook that? Thanks to PotP, the Warden-obligatory Leader Optimus in SIEGE had to be something different. But they still wanted a more G1 Optimus in there (As far as Generations goes, Optimus is the new Bumblebee).
Also IMO it's less "the trailer justifies SIEGE Prime's existence" and more "The trailer justifies Earthrise Prime's existence".

No, I didn't overlook that, it's just not relevant anymore. ER Optimus is no less different from PotP Optimus than Siege Starscream is from PotP Starscream

Whuh? ER Optimus is G1 cartoon Earth Mode Optimus, both cab and trailer. That gives him decidedly more in common with the PotP Evolution figure than SIEGE Starscream - who is a Tetrajet - has with PotP Starscream (an Earth jet). Or did you mean to say ER Starscream?
Because they couldn't have done another Voyager Earth mode Starscream immediately after PotP any more than they could have done another Leader G1 Optimus cab and trailer immediately after PotP.

Your point would have made sense a couple years ago, but not now.

How does my point that they couldn't have done another Leader cab-and-trailer G1 cartoon Optimus immediately after PotP, that the Optimus toys in SIEGE had to be different from the immediately-preceding Optimus, not make sense?

[Stargrave]

Random Earthrise ramblings:

Cliffjumper, you are so small. I had no idea. Really, just so small.

Wheeljack’s paint job is sublime. I can’t even read that small. It’s like MP quality. But, gorilla arms. Really, just too big.

Prime’s hands are really well engineered. How they maintain the 5mm grip with an opening finger mechanism is so clever.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Wheeljack's arms don't bug me, but I'm used to his G1 toy.

[Ultra Markus]

I doubt Overlord's going to be a Commander, based on the fact that his TR figure is still on sale for $30 in a lot of places. Deathsaurus is a maybe because fans would like it, and kids would see him turning into a dragon and be intrigued.

Fans would like a Commander-class Overlord too. TR/Legends Overlord is too small next to Legends Ginrai, and only does so much. Kids would be intrigued by a Commander-class Overlord too, both from the size and from the base mode. Because a Commander-class Overlord would be able to have a base mode more along the lines of this:

i wonder if the earthrise skylinx mold would be used for overlord seeing how they have similar looking base modes

[Rodimus Prime]

Deathsaurus would be a better candidate for a Sky Lynx retool, I think. They'd have to fuse the bird and the lynx together, but it can be done. Turning a bird and a lynx into a jet and a tank? It would be a stretch. Not impossible, but a stretch. FWIW, I like the leader Overlord we got, he looks good on a shelf, even if he's somewhat simple. I wish we would have gotten a proper Giga and Mega with him, though.

[ZeroWolf]

I really hope we don't have yet another sky Lynx retooled into a deathsarus...

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Deathsaurus would be a better candidate for a Sky Lynx retool, I think. They'd have to fuse the bird and the lynx together, but it can be done. Turning a bird and a lynx into a jet and a tank? It would be a stretch. Not impossible, but a stretch.

Frankly, I think turning Sky Lynx's "toothed sauropod" robot mode (the separate components of which are just as much space shuttle and shuttle crawler as they are bird and lynx, if not moreso) into Deathsaurus' bipedal psychotic mutant chicken mode, is more of a stretch. Here's why Overlord makes more sense to me:

* Overlord is made of two separate components, a flying vehicle and a tracked ground vehicle, just like Sky Lynx. Granted, his combined robot mode is a humanoid rather than a toothy saurian. But still.
* Having the SR-71-esque Megajet as an alternate tooling of the shuttle bird wouldn't be that huge a stretch. The Gigatank as the alternate tooling of the carrier-crawler would be more work, but it could be done. It'd basically be like how TR Overlord and Sky Shadow are mold-mates, but with the lower half being the more divergent.
* As others have pointed out, the base mode (which is something Deathy didn't have and would probably be harder to give) is kinda-sorta similar to Overlord's as it is.
* Sky Lynx's robot modes are just as much vehicle as they are animal (and Overlord's robot mode is likewise made up of vehicle bits). But Deathsaurus' beast mode? Is purely a robotic beast, just like the Dinobots' beast modes.
* Sky Lynx's unfurled wings don't really match Deathsaurus' wings.

TLDR: Turning a flying vehicle and a tracked vehicle that combine into a winged sauropod robot with evident vehicle bits, into a semi-similar flying vehicle and different tracked vehicle that combine into a humanoid robot with evident vehicle bits, seems less of a stretch than turning that same shuttle-crawler sauropod into a bipedal chicken-dino kaiju with no vehicle bits and completely different wings and also has a humanoid robot mode it directly transforms to.

FWIW, I like the leader Overlord we got, he looks good on a shelf, even if he's somewhat simple. I wish we would have gotten a proper Giga and Mega with him, though.

He looks good, but his Gigatank component pales next to the original and Legends God Ginrai can just sit on him

[Glarryg]

I really hope we don't have yet another sky Lynx retooled into a deathsarus...

I second this. "Dezarus" was the weak link of the updated Liokaiser, in my opinion.

Glarryg

[Rodimus Prime]

Deathsaurus would be a better candidate for a Sky Lynx retool, I think. They'd have to fuse the bird and the lynx together, but it can be done. Turning a bird and a lynx into a jet and a tank? It would be a stretch. Not impossible, but a stretch.

Frankly, I think turning Sky Lynx's "toothed sauropod" robot mode (the separate components of which are just as much space shuttle and shuttle crawler as they are bird and lynx, if not moreso) into Deathsaurus' bipedal psychotic mutant chicken mode, is more of a stretch. Here's why Overlord makes more sense to me:

* Overlord is made of two separate components, a flying vehicle and a tracked ground vehicle, just like Sky Lynx. Granted, his combined robot mode is a humanoid rather than a toothy saurian. But still.
* Having the SR-71-esque Megajet as an alternate tooling of the shuttle bird wouldn't be that huge a stretch. The Gigatank as the alternate tooling of the carrier-crawler would be more work, but it could be done. It'd basically be like how TR Overlord and Sky Shadow are mold-mates, but with the lower half being the more divergent.
* As others have pointed out, the base mode (which is something Deathy didn't have and would probably be harder to give) is kinda-sorta similar to Overlord's as it is.
* Sky Lynx's robot modes are just as much vehicle as they are animal (and Overlord's robot mode is likewise made up of vehicle bits). But Deathsaurus' beast mode? Is purely a robotic beast, just like the Dinobots' beast modes.
* Sky Lynx's unfurled wings don't really match Deathsaurus' wings.

TLDR: Turning a flying vehicle and a tracked vehicle that combine into a winged sauropod robot with evident vehicle bits, into a semi-similar flying vehicle and different tracked vehicle that combine into a humanoid robot with evident vehicle bits, seems less of a stretch than turning that same shuttle-crawler sauropod into a bipedal chicken-dino kaiju with no vehicle bits and completely different wings and also has a humanoid robot mode it directly transforms to.

FWIW, I like the leader Overlord we got, he looks good on a shelf, even if he's somewhat simple. I wish we would have gotten a proper Giga and Mega with him, though.

He looks good, but his Gigatank component pales next to the original and Legends God Ginrai can just sit on him

I agree with your assessment on how we could get Overlord from Sky Lynx. Those were my thoughts as well. And a commander class Overlord would go better with TR PM Prime. TR Overlord scales well with the original PM Prime without Godbomber.

[Emerje]

Wow, Hoist is a giant among Deluxes. I had seen him in pics next to Wheeljack and just assumed WJ was a short figure (I mean shorter than he really is). How does Hoist compare to Ironhide and his mold mates? Same? Taller? Shows a lot of promise for other tall characters that may not be worthy of a Voyager like a lot of post-movie characters.

BTW, we're long overdue for a proper Leader Grimlock that's just a big figure in a box. No base parts or playset parts or transforming throne or whatever. Just a big scale accurate robot that turns into an even bigger t-rex, a gun, a RED sword (sorry, Zelda) and maybe a crown. Also should have a mostly G1 toy/cartoon transformation with a few adjustments, no need for doing something radically different like with Optimus.

Emerje

[Rodimus Prime]

Honestly, I was hoping Grimlock and Hot Rod/Rodimus were going to get a break in this line, but the figures we got in PoTP for both characters were underwhelming, so maybe it wouldn't hurt to get them in WFC. A leader Grimlock, voyagers for Snarl and Sludge, and deluxe for Slag and Swoop. But the 4 other Dinos got treated well in PoTP, so I doubt we'll get figures for them. Having said that, I would like WFC to focus on characters that have never gotten proper figures, or haven't gotten any since the 80s. (Firecons!!!)

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Honestly, I was hoping Grimlock and Hot Rod/Rodimus were going to get a break in this line, but the figures we got in PoTP for both characters were underwhelming, so maybe it wouldn't hurt to get them in WFC. A leader Grimlock, voyagers for Snarl and Sludge, and deluxe for Slag and Swoop. But the 4 other Dinos got treated well in PoTP, so I doubt we'll get figures for them. Having said that, I would like WFC to focus on characters that have never gotten proper figures, or haven't gotten any since the 80s. (Firecons!!!)

I don't find PotP Grimlock underwhelming at all. He's magnificently G1-accurate in robot and dino modes. I can see people finding the torso mode lacking (although I don't), but the robot and dino modes are delightfully articulated - and aside from the minor changes for the combined mode, replicate the G1 figure's detailing pretty much greeble-for-greeble. The transformation is also very close; the most notable differences are his tail forming the back of his robot mode lower legs (both to economize on mass and make the robot mode a bit neater) and the robot torso splitting in half for its upward migration.
Size-wise, he's fairly good. Comes up short next to CW Optimus, admittedly, but he undoubtedly scales just fine against SIEGE and Earthrise Optimus. So unless most of the extra mass was made up of accessories (which are the one area I find PotP Grimlock really does fall short), a Leader would make him way too big.

As for Rodimus Prime, I never found the PotP Leader underwhelming. I find him cool on his own, he finally gives us a Rodimus Prime in scale with the G1 Galvatron toy, and among CHUG figures he makes for a decent powered-up rebuild version. But he is out of scale with them as far as a normal Rodimus Prime goes; that and the battle station are why I want a Leader Roddy in WFC.

Saying we haven't had the Firecons since the '80s isn't quite accurate. Flamefeather and Sparkstalker had G2 versions in Europe, so as far as the Firecons as themselves that puts the date in the '90s. As far as homage versions go, there was a BotCon G2 Cindersaur in 2010 to sorta-complete the G2 Firecon set, a Cindersaur redeco of Prime Rippersnapper, Bot Shots Cindersaur, and most recently the Cindersaur headswap redeco of PotP Slash.
The Firecons, especially Cindersaur, are definitely on HasTak's radar. So proper versions could still happen.