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[Sentinel_Primal]

This. So much this. Good post Skritz, you said it better than I could ever have

Thank you. I wish I was this eloquent IRL!

By the way, even as a diehard Beast Wars fan I don't think I'd ever want a Beast Wars line that is just rehash and updates. Especially not for a BW-inspired line, since the original line had some crazy shakeup ever year with Transmetal, Fuzor and Transmetal 2. All with distinct esthetic. While I understand you'd obviously need a Beast Wars line to have Beast Wars characters to me it would be a waste of time, money and plastic to just redo everything 1:1. For the main cast? Oh sure, I could see that happening and in fact Generations already did it for Rhinox, Rattrap, Waspinator and Optimal Optimus.

However for a new Beast Wars line I'd welcome either completely new design or radical redesign of G1 characters with beast modes, be they completely organic beast modes or something like Transmetals, the latter of which would fit very well with the existing animal and monster-bots of the current Generations line. I'm not against figures of pre-existing characters with a new spin, especially not if its a good figure. That said, there are so many cool animals in real life that a hypothetical new Beast Wars line could sell itself purely on the crazy experimentation Hasbro could do (Crab Ironhide, anyone?) with about a quarter of the line being show characters. There is endless variety in animals and Hasbro's engineering has gone a very, very long way to make this possible and great-looking. An example of that would be TR Mindwipe.

So no, I don't think a 'New Beast Wars' line need to completely rehash the old toyline simply because there is a whole trilogy worth of unique and amazing designs they could do, double so if they bring in crazier and weirder ideas like Fuzor (who have endless potential) or maybe even Beast triple-changers.

Right now, IMO, the only Beast Wars guy who badly need an update is Megatron, especially his Dragon form since we got Optimal Optimus. Hell, that's another idea: organic mythical animals as a subline! Griffin transformers. Chimera transformers! Hydras and cerberus. Seriously, there is a ton of potential for a BW line without needing to redo the actual toyline.

The idea of a beast triple changer just reminded me of the Mutant faction where they were beasts with no robot mode and two beast modes And you're on fire with the good points tonight/day/pick your timezone

[Skritz]

In any case: Siege is doing okay for now, I just hope it has enough interesting characters/retools as well as figures too-good-to-pass-up down the line. It does seem like a line which take what was good of Titans Return and is amping it up, especially without the so-called 'forced gimmicks' (for the most part). Mind you, I liked Titan Masters.

Now we just need those damn Autobot Targetmasters.

[Wolfman Jake]

I know everyone is excited to get an actual mainline, Hasbro/Takara release of Impactor with the new Siege line. However, I'm interested in seeing this new take on Mirage that Impactor will be paired with. The Classics version is still pretty good, but he does have a very exaggerated "V" shaped torso and tiny waistline. The Combiner Wars version looks better in terms of proportion, but isn't very on model, especially with the front nose of the F1 race car ending up on the robot mode back instead of on the front of the torso. Will Siege Mirage be the best of both worlds for his previous "Generations" incarnations?

Now we just need those damn Autobot Targetmasters.

I'm still counting on Takara to do them as Legends EX releases sometime in the not too distant future. Maybe once "Big Powered" is released early next year, we'll get hints of what the next LG-EX offering will be.

[william-james88]

FYI, the beast wars mutants did have robot modes, they were just relegated to a third mode where there wasnt much change.

[Wireless_Phantom]

Warden promised at SDCC that he's going to prove he's a Beast Wars and Armada fan in the coming years so we'll have to see what happens by the end of WfC.

Also I wonder if it's possible Barricade would be based on Wheeljack or Tracks, losers from the previous fan poll and definitely not happening in Siege, so they can turn around and make them later in the trilogy with ready-made molds.

Emerje

Oh boy now that's what I'm talking about! I would really love to see Armada get some love!

[Sabrblade]

FYI, the beast wars mutants did have robot modes, they were just relegated to a third mode where there wasnt much change.

Exposing their hidden robot mode heads/faces in one of their beast modes is not the same as their having actual robot modes. The whole point of the Mutants was that they lost their ability to transform into robot mode.

[Skritz]

Warden promised at SDCC that he's going to prove he's a Beast Wars and Armada fan in the coming years so we'll have to see what happens by the end of WfC.

Also I wonder if it's possible Barricade would be based on Wheeljack or Tracks, losers from the previous fan poll and definitely not happening in Siege, so they can turn around and make them later in the trilogy with ready-made molds.

Emerje

Oh boy now that's what I'm talking about! I would really love to see Armada get some love!

Personally I'd love to see Mini-Con redone as modern Micromasters. I never got to experience Mini-Con as I wasn't buying toys when Armada came out and missed out on the little buggers.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

TL;DR: Stop remaking the same 1/6th of the G1 toyline over again and stick to characters who haven't been updated yet, and stop making Generations only actually about one Generation.

To be fair "Only actually about one Generation" is kinda how it started . It started out as "Universe: Classics 2.0 with a new cool-sounding label put on it". But I do see your points about Beast Wars. I think in some cases, reissues would probably suffice - why make a new mold when the old is perfectly good as-is? - but new toys wouldn't go amiss either. Like you said, it would be good to see some Season 1 characters getting newer, more show-accurate toys (Esp. Blackarachnia) and characters who were only properly realized as Takara exclusives get more accessible figures. OTOH I wouldn't expect them in the WFC trilogy - at least not Siege - given the main inspiration being G1's Great War in the years before MTMTE.

My point is that if they start doing the same characters over and over they will lose collectors like me (or older) if they release an Optimus/Megatron/Starscream/Bumblebee/Ironhide every single line after Siege. There is no point for collectors to constantly buy the same character barring, maybe, the new one being such a massive improvement.

I'm okay with a decent chunk of the remakes of the same G1 characters we've had or are getting in Siege, because I think they ARE improvements or fill a niche for a version of that character. I do worry about the stagnation a bit, and I think part of the problem might be the "These are the big names so the retailers like them" factor (which I think the movieverse has contributed to). And let's not forget that there have been some strides on untouched characters. Freakin' Scoops got an update in T30, ARCEE finally got a proper toy in T30 after being deprived for years. PotP gave us ELITA FREAKING ONE, Moonracer, and Firestar in official Hasbro toy form at long last, and Chromia is following up in Siege.

Partial (because I've sunk so much time into typing this as-is) list of rehashes I think are justified:
Combiner Wars Optimus: Bigger than Classics Optimus (that on its own is a major improvement), carries the G1 look a bit better, and can homage the episode "Masquerade".
Titans Return Bumblebee: FINALLY a new toy of G1 Bumblebee that's the proper size for a minibot in CHUG.
Siege Optimus: Has the same size improvement over the first CHUG Voyager Prime that CW Optimus had, but without the baggage from being a combiner torso and is just purely focused on being a good Optimus Prime.
Siege Starscream: Voyager Starscream without the combiner baggage. I would still like to see the Classics Seeker mold upsized to Voyager because of how clean it is, but this isn't bad.
Siege Ironhide: Universe Ironhide was an SUV and a shrimp, and Combiner Wars Ironhide was just Ironhide's head on a recolored Offroad body. Siege Ironhide is an improvement in size and altmode. And also, Ironhide has only had the Universe and CW toys.
Siege Hound: Universe Hound was maybe a bit small, and he was also short on weapons because of coming with Ravage. CW Hound is just a headswapped redeco.
Siege Soundwave: Yeah, we just had Soundwave and a bunch of his midgets, but a Voyager one with "Micromaster" cassettes works better for cartoon scaling purposes.
Siege Ultra Magnus: Classics Magnus was just the cab robot (and it's the undersize Classics Optimus mold at that), Combiner Wars Magnus had a permanently-integrated cab and can only carry 2 Deluxes.
Siege Sideswipe: Universe Sideswipe is rarespensive on eBay now grr.

Remakes we could have done without:
The oversize Megatron and Seekers we got in Combiner Wars as Leader-class filler.

FYI, the beast wars mutants did have robot modes, they were just relegated to a third mode where there wasnt much change.

Exposing their hidden robot mode heads/faces in one of their beast modes is not the same as their having actual robot modes. The whole point of the Mutants was that they lost their ability to transform into robot mode.

No, the point of the Mutants was Hasbro trying to recoup the already-sunk development costs on what would have been the last round of the now-canceled Animorphs Transformers

[Wireless_Phantom]

This. So much this. Good post Skritz, you said it better than I could ever have

Thank you. I wish I was this eloquent IRL!

By the way, even as a diehard Beast Wars fan I don't think I'd ever want a Beast Wars line that is just rehash and updates. Especially not for a BW-inspired line, since the original line had some crazy shakeup ever year with Transmetal, Fuzor and Transmetal 2. All with distinct esthetic. While I understand you'd obviously need a Beast Wars line to have Beast Wars characters to me it would be a waste of time, money and plastic to just redo everything 1:1. For the main cast? Oh sure, I could see that happening and in fact Generations already did it for Rhinox, Rattrap, Waspinator and Optimal Optimus.

However for a new Beast Wars line I'd welcome either completely new design or radical redesign of G1 characters with beast modes, be they completely organic beast modes or something like Transmetals, the latter of which would fit very well with the existing animal and monster-bots of the current Generations line. I'm not against figures of pre-existing characters with a new spin, especially not if its a good figure. That said, there are so many cool animals in real life that a hypothetical new Beast Wars line could sell itself purely on the crazy experimentation Hasbro could do (Crab Ironhide, anyone?) with about a quarter of the line being show characters. There is endless variety in animals and Hasbro's engineering has gone a very, very long way to make this possible and great-looking. An example of that would be TR Mindwipe.

So no, I don't think a 'New Beast Wars' line need to completely rehash the old toyline simply because there is a whole trilogy worth of unique and amazing designs they could do, double so if they bring in crazier and weirder ideas like Fuzor (who have endless potential) or maybe even Beast triple-changers.

Right now, IMO, the only Beast Wars guy who badly need an update is Megatron, especially his Dragon form since we got Optimal Optimus. Hell, that's another idea: organic mythical animals as a subline! Griffin transformers. Chimera transformers! Hydras and cerberus. Seriously, there is a ton of potential for a BW line without needing to redo the actual toyline.

Here's an idea:Transformers that turn into animals who can combine into mythical creatures

[ZeroWolf]

This. So much this. Good post Skritz, you said it better than I could ever have

Thank you. I wish I was this eloquent IRL!

By the way, even as a diehard Beast Wars fan I don't think I'd ever want a Beast Wars line that is just rehash and updates. Especially not for a BW-inspired line, since the original line had some crazy shakeup ever year with Transmetal, Fuzor and Transmetal 2. All with distinct esthetic. While I understand you'd obviously need a Beast Wars line to have Beast Wars characters to me it would be a waste of time, money and plastic to just redo everything 1:1. For the main cast? Oh sure, I could see that happening and in fact Generations already did it for Rhinox, Rattrap, Waspinator and Optimal Optimus.

However for a new Beast Wars line I'd welcome either completely new design or radical redesign of G1 characters with beast modes, be they completely organic beast modes or something like Transmetals, the latter of which would fit very well with the existing animal and monster-bots of the current Generations line. I'm not against figures of pre-existing characters with a new spin, especially not if its a good figure. That said, there are so many cool animals in real life that a hypothetical new Beast Wars line could sell itself purely on the crazy experimentation Hasbro could do (Crab Ironhide, anyone?) with about a quarter of the line being show characters. There is endless variety in animals and Hasbro's engineering has gone a very, very long way to make this possible and great-looking. An example of that would be TR Mindwipe.

So no, I don't think a 'New Beast Wars' line need to completely rehash the old toyline simply because there is a whole trilogy worth of unique and amazing designs they could do, double so if they bring in crazier and weirder ideas like Fuzor (who have endless potential) or maybe even Beast triple-changers.

Right now, IMO, the only Beast Wars guy who badly need an update is Megatron, especially his Dragon form since we got Optimal Optimus. Hell, that's another idea: organic mythical animals as a subline! Griffin transformers. Chimera transformers! Hydras and cerberus. Seriously, there is a ton of potential for a BW line without needing to redo the actual toyline.

Here's an idea:Transformers that turn into animals who can combine into mythical creatures

That I like. I'm all for new BW inspired toys (so new characters with new animals to turn into), though I'm also down for just new characters in general, we need more.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

That I like. I'm all for new BW inspired toys (so new characters with new animals to turn into), though I'm also down for just new characters in general, we need more.

I argee, with the addition that they aren't transplants from other continuities like Barricade is. It's like the G1-verse is afraid to change too drastically, while the Movie and other lines introduce new characters left and right. I wonder why.

[starrhero]

That I like. I'm all for new BW inspired toys (so new characters with new animals to turn into), though I'm also down for just new characters in general, we need more.

I argee, with the addition that they aren't transplants from other continuities like Barricade is. It's like the G1-verse is afraid to change too drastically, while the Movie and other lines introduce new characters left and right. I wonder why.

I mean, there are still new characters being added to the Generation 1 era of the franchise. Earth Wars added in Sentius Magnus & Sentinus Malus, two entirely new characters added into the franchise through Earth Wars. Why not make toys of these two, & continue to add new characters slowly but surely?





Who knows? Maybe we'll start getting new G1 characters other than the occasional oddballs randomly thrown in every once & a while.

[Wolfman Jake]

That I like. I'm all for new BW inspired toys (so new characters with new animals to turn into), though I'm also down for just new characters in general, we need more.

I argee, with the addition that they aren't transplants from other continuities like Barricade is. It's like the G1-verse is afraid to change too drastically, while the Movie and other lines introduce new characters left and right. I wonder why.

Drift/Deadlock, Windblade, Nautica, Pyra Magna, Stormclash, Skyburst, Dustup, Jumpstream, Rust Dust, Nickel, Velocity, Aileron, (and so many others), all say, "Hi!"

[ZeroWolf]

Not to be picky but some of them haven't got toys and unless they can get into Cyberverse, they never will. One of the many reasons I'll miss IDW, original characters but I want the team at hasbro to make new characters just like when they did beast wars. Thank you for remembering IDW though

[Amelie]

I think it says a lot about where the fandom is now when non-MTMTE (G1 cartoon episode 1) characters are being so excitedly talked about. Rewind this conversation even 10 years or so and people would have been losing their minds over Hasbro trying to give us good representations of toys that some fans had been wanting since 1984.

Its actually nice to see a fandom excited about new things, different things and expanding a 'historical' setting as G1 has been.

[Cyberpath]

I have no problem with the subject matter of recent lines. Not only are we getting new versions of the core characters (till they get it right) -- we also get obscure characters like Cog, Brunt, Reflector, Counterpunch, clones, Targetmasters, Microbots and Flywheels. The latter which looks perfect, as much as a CHUG can get.

Perhaps when the '84-87 well is dry they will move on to redo later toy lines. But companies always go back to their signature products.


Anyways, since I have Flywheels on preorder and paid I was thinking about getting Battletrap (who is still in-stock) but I dunno, not really feelin' it. I don't like that he's composed of two Transformers, it kind of hurts the robot mode and the Duocon concept. And you probably can't mix them into Battlewheels & Flytrap (wow, that's a terrible name.)

[mordhelm]

I have no problem with the subject matter of recent lines. Not only are we getting new versions of the core characters (till they get it right) -- we also get obscure characters like Cog, Brunt, Reflector, Counterpunch, clones, Targetmasters, Microbots and Flywheels. The latter which looks perfect, as much as a CHUG can get.

Perhaps when the '84-87 well is dry they will move on to redo later toy lines. But companies always go back to their signature products.


Anyways, since I have Flywheels on preorder and paid I was thinking about getting Battletrap (who is still in-stock) but I dunno, not really feelin' it. I don't like that he's composed of two Transformers, it kind of hurts the robot mode and the Duocon concept. And you probably can't mix them into Battlewheels & Flytrap (wow, that's a terrible name.)

Warden explicitly stated they are compatible. So you will be able to make Battletread and Skytrap.

[Emerje]

And you probably can't mix them into Battlewheels & Flytrap (wow, that's a terrible name.)

Unless there was a misunderstanding somewhere, we were told that the two are compatible and this is possible. Also if you don't like Battleslah and Roadtrap you can transform the vehicles into Battletrap by bypassing the smaller bot modes. But they are a really good set of figures and easily one of the best things to come out of PotP.

Emerje

[Skritz]

Unpopular opinion time: the thing with 'new characters' circa the height of IDW is that they weren't made the way older new characters were made, which to me affect their viability for use in the overall brand and yes we need to think of it in term of brand because I hold no illusion over what Transformers is. Anyway: these weren't designed to sell a toy, a cool design or a gimmick as back in the day but rather most of them were designed to be the comic book author's pet character, like Rung. Nor were they designed to be a new character because the show was mostly new characters which needed to fit a certain role/archetype and the character organically evolved in the show to expand beyond that original role (see: everyone in Beast Wars). That and toy/show characters tend to be written by different people.

This is markedly different from the bad self-insert and 'statement characters' of late IDW. In the older days, characters were designed as a loose archetype and evolved organically from there...or langquished in obscurity until someone picked them up decades later.

[ThunderThruster]

Hell, that's another idea: organic mythical animals as a subline! Griffin transformers. Chimera transformers! Hydras and cerberus.

Sign me up for this!

[Cyberpath]

Hm, decided to skip him for now. Flywheels just looks sooo much better.

I'll treat him as its own unique thing, like the Rebirth opening.

Gotta give props to Hasbro on this one, there's nothing about Flywheel's deco that I would change.

[william-james88]

Hell, that's another idea: organic mythical animals as a subline! Griffin transformers. Chimera transformers! Hydras and cerberus.

Sign me up for this!

Rescue bots had this for the most part. With a Griffin duobot, a Yeti bot, and loads of dragons.

[AcademyofDrX]

My only complaints about Battletrap are that his fist holes are functionally useless and they didn't give him a shoulder hole to compensate. Even though I have the original complete, I can't do anything with that weapon.

He'll still look good beside Skytread, and maybe there's a 5mm rotor-style sword he can wield?

[Cyberpath]

My only complaints about Battletrap are that his fist holes are functionally useless and they didn't give him a shoulder hole to compensate. Even though I have the original complete, I can't do anything with that weapon.

He'll still look good beside Skytread, and maybe there's a 5mm rotor-style sword he can wield?

Nonnef offers an upgrade kit with a couple of weapons and a replacement blade.

[Wireless_Phantom]

My only complaints about Battletrap are that his fist holes are functionally useless and they didn't give him a shoulder hole to compensate. Even though I have the original complete, I can't do anything with that weapon.

He'll still look good beside Skytread, and maybe there's a 5mm rotor-style sword he can wield?

Nonnef offers an upgrade kit with a couple of weapons and a replacement blade.

I might have to grab that myself