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Nice! Have you got him Cogman yet?

I've been debating introducing him to the Bayverse at all. Not just because they're crap movies, but because there's some questionable content for kids -- all of the Megan Fox fan service, racist robots, robot genitalia. My kids are still very young and I have a hard time keeping them from talking about their "pee-pee" and "poo-poo" all the time. They don't need Bayverse TF.

Moxietron wrote:I've been debating introducing him to the Bayverse at all. Not just because they're crap movies, but because there's some questionable content for kids -- all of the Megan Fox fan service, racist robots, robot genitalia. My kids are still very young and I have a hard time keeping them from talking about their "pee-pee" and "poo-poo" all the time. They don't need Bayverse TF.

I totally understand. I share your views and also have similar ones for some of the Legends comics from Japan. That said, unlike the Legends toys (where the comics come with them), the actual film content is arguably limited to the films and not the toys. Cogman and Nitro Zeus have Titanmaster heads, so you can use them with Titans Return toys.

Yeah, and they've already gotten movie toys from relatives. I'm surprised they haven't asked what show they're from. I've shown them the G1 show and little bits from the Unicron Trilogy, RID, Prime, Animated. They're actually pretty darn content just to watch Rescue Bots. I am completely fine with that. We watch G1 when I'm feeling like sharing my nostalgia with them. They like it okay, but vastly prefer Rescue Bots.

As to Takara Legends pack-in comics -- totally agreed. While I can easily dismiss those issues for myself ("Oh, Japan!"), I could never do that for my kids. Of course, I would never let my kids near expensive import toys in the first place. I can't see myself giving them the luxury of unboxing a Takara release that's more than twice the cost of the equivalent Hasbro. First, they wouldn't appreciate it like we do. Second, I'd have to snatch that comic out of the box and then have the awkward time explaining to them why they can't even look at it. Third, I've already had to replace on of their TR toys. I can't/won't risk that on an expensive import.

That's quite the perspective Moxietron, thanks for sharing that and welcome to the boards! I hope you enjoy your stay

I can't even imagine the tyranny of choice that starting a Classics collection would be now. Do you think you'll approach it character by character? How might you factor in scale? Though scale wise, at least you don't have to have a collection with a gigantic Powerglide like many of us had ten years ago unless you actually choose to!

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Since I'm focusing on nostalgia, it's really not that bad. My childhood TF collection wasn't huge and neither was my wishlist. I guess if I were to codify my acquisition process, it would be something like this:

> Look at the current line (i.e. PoTP). I am assuming that newer toys have better engineering, so is the best place to start. Read/Watch reviews, especially noting comparisons (Thank you, emgo et al!).
> Browse TFwiki and various e-tailers looking for alternatives if the current line is unsatisfactory. Read/Watch reviews.
> Pick one and acquire without breaking the bank.

Example: I picked up the Autobot Heroes set (Ultra Magnus, Springer, Blurr, Kup, RC) because I wanted that specific Ultra Magnus. Figuring that I had most of the "2005" main cast, I decided that I needed Hot Rod. I vacillated between the TR, Classics and Henkei versions for a while. I found the TR version on clearance at my local, but soon-to-be-closed TRU ($12 USD!) and, since he was literally the last one on the peg, picked him up. He's...okay. There's something lacking -- paint apps? detail? color richness? So while I'm content to display him alongside the others, I still wanted better. I found the Classics version from a private seller on Reddit for $10. SOLD!

As for scale, I have to admit to just being kinda arbitrary about this. As long as scale roughly corresponds with prominence or power, I'm okay. I can deal with a Leader Jetfire and a Voyager Grimlock. What I can't deal with is having Leader Megatron and Soundwave, but no Starscream. As I understand, the Classics Deluxe mold was great; faithful to the toy and cartoon. But they're Deluxe figures. Granted, it would let me get the full Seeker set that way, but they would not play well with my Decepticon Leaders. The more recent Leader Starscream is just a mold-reuse of Jetfire. I like the Jetfire mold as Jetfire. Also, that mold is finicky as hell. I really don't want another. Don't get me started with PoTP Starscream... So I guess my only option for Starscream is MP-11 or Make Toys Meteor. I'm saving my pennies for the latter. I saw the Toyhax reprolabels...OMG...G1-gasm!

Emerje wrote:Getting Guren Dragotron at a good price is tricky, I've been wanting one for a while. There aren't very many cheap ones on eBay because sellers tend to overvalue him, and you can get him for dirt cheap on Mandarake when he shows up there (under $25), but the shipping is prohibitive.

Emerje

I was really psyched to find that price and he’s gorgeous in person. The red and gold blend so well together.

Moxietron wrote:Thanks for the warm welcome!

Since I'm focusing on nostalgia, it's really not that bad. My childhood TF collection wasn't huge and neither was my wishlist. I guess if I were to codify my acquisition process, it would be something like this:

> Look at the current line (i.e. PoTP). I am assuming that newer toys have better engineering, so is the best place to start. Read/Watch reviews, especially noting comparisons (Thank you, emgo et al!).
> Browse TFwiki and various e-tailers looking for alternatives if the current line is unsatisfactory. Read/Watch reviews.
> Pick one and acquire without breaking the bank.

Example: I picked up the Autobot Heroes set (Ultra Magnus, Springer, Blurr, Kup, RC) because I wanted that specific Ultra Magnus. Figuring that I had most of the "2005" main cast, I decided that I needed Hot Rod. I vacillated between the TR, Classics and Henkei versions for a while. I found the TR version on clearance at my local, but soon-to-be-closed TRU ($12 USD!) and, since he was literally the last one on the peg, picked him up. He's...okay. There's something lacking -- paint apps? detail? color richness? So while I'm content to display him alongside the others, I still wanted better. I found the Classics version from a private seller on Reddit for $10. SOLD!

As for scale, I have to admit to just being kinda arbitrary about this. As long as scale roughly corresponds with prominence or power, I'm okay. I can deal with a Leader Jetfire and a Voyager Grimlock. What I can't deal with is having Leader Megatron and Soundwave, but no Starscream. As I understand, the Classics Deluxe mold was great; faithful to the toy and cartoon. But they're Deluxe figures. Granted, it would let me get the full Seeker set that way, but they would not play well with my Decepticon Leaders. The more recent Leader Starscream is just a mold-reuse of Jetfire. I like the Jetfire mold as Jetfire. Also, that mold is finicky as hell. I really don't want another. Don't get me started with PoTP Starscream... So I guess my only option for Starscream is MP-11 or Make Toys Meteor. I'm saving my pennies for the latter. I saw the Toyhax reprolabels...OMG...G1-gasm!

Welcome, and I really appreciate your different view point. Classics and the rest of that era are often more reimaginings that capture the essence but take interesting liberties. The engineering is often more complex and often elegant. If you’re aiming for the best representation, you have a three-axis decision to make: G1 accuracy vs price vs “fun factor”. MP and 3rd Party MP are both awesome and extremely G1. However price is often quite high comparatively. The last ten years of Hasbro/Takara stuff hits a good fun factor and some figures have come down into a great price range.

Good luck!

Yes, and the good thing now is that people like me have sold some of the older remakes of G1 characters, so I guess there is a glut of these figures on the secondary market. For example, some of the film TFs have G1 versions (such as Hoist), and these, IMO, look fine in any regular CHUG collection. I would recommend looking at Armada, Energon, Galaxy Force/Cybertronian, Filmverse, etc iterations (such as the great Energon version of Shockwave), as there are some "trash to treasure" gems out there for peanuts.

If you're not adverse to Beast Wars, you can still find Lio Convoy, Galvatron, Big Convoy and Magmatron in Japan for reasonable prices, which is an absolute steal, as they are AMAZING TF display pieces.

If you're also interested, Binaltech and Alternators, plus the racing car Binaltech (with race queens) usually go fairly cheap, as they have lost their appeal (difficult to transform, used to be expensive, limited molds and are too big for MP or CHUG collections). There are some really nice G1 style bots there, too. However, if you plan to show them to your kids avoid the versions marked "Kiss" or "Kiss Players" (tfwiki is your friend) - They make the Legends comics and Bay's filmography look like preschool teaching material by comparison.

As a small point, I’d say don’t deprive yourself of some of the truly glorious decos in Kiss Players. The adult content is limited to the packaging largely. IIRC even the instructions are fine. That Rodimus is still amazing.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:As a small point, I’d say don’t deprive yourself of some of the truly glorious decos in Kiss Players. The adult content is limited to the packaging largely. IIRC even the instructions are fine. That Rodimus is still amazing.

The Glit/Rosanna/Sunder set comes to mind as well. More in the realm of a saccharine over-done trying to be cute thing going on than anything creepy.

Moxietron wrote:TL;DR -- I'm going to cherry-pick from Classics on forward for the best (IMHO) incarnation of my childhood favorites. Money allowing, maybe some day I'll have a full stable of Masterpiece as well.

This is admittedly, the primary focus of my hobby.

Let me throw a few thoughts your way to do with as you see fit... (I think you've already made some wise decisions by looking back to pre prime wars stuff fwiw)

1. Identify your core cast to whom everyone will scale off of. What I mean for this is, take Prime and Megatron. They are larger than most, but what is right to you? Voyager or Leader? Something in between?

2. Many if not most of your decisions will follow off of this, but there are distinct problems. Your official seekers are either too big or too small to scale off their boss. Soundwave's options are either too big or too old. Shockwave's options are abysmal. On the other side, dudes like Ironhide don't have properly sized options. The larger folks have good options, the regular dudes have good options, the inbetween size characters are difficult to land in the right place.

3. Opt into third party stuff, but do it carefully.

4. If nostalgia is as important as you say, prepare to import Takara versions of key characters. I would encourage you do do an experiment by buying something like Universe Sunstreaker and Henkei Sunstreaker. Put them side by side and see first hand where that extra money takes you.

5. Last but perhaps most important...be prepared to get multiple versions of some characters. What seems right in one cast may be less so as your collection evolves. I thought I was done with Ironhide once I got Henkei Ironhide, but ultimately it was another toy that filled that defined role.

Good luck.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:As a small point, I’d say don’t deprive yourself of some of the truly glorious decos in Kiss Players. The adult content is limited to the packaging largely. IIRC even the instructions are fine. That Rodimus is still amazing.

This is true. The Kiss comics were online, or sold separately, I believe, while the likes of Rosanna were sold after the primary Kiss figures where released (seemingly toned-down due to issues with the first Kiss line).

For more information, here is an entry concerning it at Tfwiki:

- http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Ki ... (franchise)

Btw, what's a good figure to replace Henkei Ironhide and Ratchet? I didn't like the Combiner Wars versions, so didn't bother with them.

primalxconvoy wrote:Btw, what's a good figure to replace Henkei Ironhide and Ratchet? I didn't like the Combiner Wars versions, so didn't bother with them.

For official product, there's Arms Micron Ironhide and RiD or TAV Ratchet as options, but they're still not that great for this purpose.

Two 3rd party options would be something like the iGear versions, which are older and tougher to find but probably cheap now, and the TFC Old Soldiers which are super cheap at BBTS at the moment - though if anything like the Hound from that series, they are probably awful. And you still have scale issues with these!

Honestly, depending on what scale one goes with, I wouldn't rule out Masterpiece Ironhide and Ratchet.

Thanks for that. There's even that wonderful Botcon/TFCC repaint of that Energon toy as both Ratchet and Ironhide, which is the closest we've gotten to a G1 style CHUG figure. However, those are pretty expensive. I'm resigned to waiting for an affordable G1 style CHUG for the time being.

It's so funny that we're talking about appropriate Ratchets. I'm kinda sorta looking for one...

See, he was technically my very first Transformer. I bought him at Zayre back in the day with my own money. Brought him home and was instantly disappointed. The next day we went back and I exchanged him for Mirage and I couldn't have been happier!

But nostalgia is this weird thing. It can sink its hooks into you such that any remotely salient memory takes a life of its own. Now? I think I want a Ratchet. Maybe even that Commemorative Ratchet up on pre-order at BBTS. Nostalgia has me wanting a genuinely terrible toy. LOL!

So...do I bother? I haven't seen, let alone played with a Ratchet in 34 years. Does the Commemorative edition still have die-cast parts? I seem to remember the windshield/head being die-cast and maybe pieces of the battlewagon thing.

Counterpunch wrote:
Let me throw a few thoughts your way to do with as you see fit... (I think you've already made some wise decisions by looking back to pre prime wars stuff fwiw)

My first taste of that was through the Autobot Heroes gift set. Springer, especially, is the damn finest triple-changer I've ever seen! I feel like mold re-use and forced gimmicks impose design compromises that really lessen the quality of the newer figures.

1. Identify your core cast to whom everyone will scale off of. What I mean for this is, take Prime and Megatron. They are larger than most, but what is right to you? Voyager or Leader? Something in between?

This question drives my OCD bananas. I have everything mostly in the right scale...and then there's TR Perceptor. WTF. He would have been perfect for a Leader Class TR base-mode-pseudo-triple-changer. At the very least, he should be Voyager, which is about the size of my G1. But instead we get a "tiny" Deluxe.

2. Many if not most of your decisions will follow off of this, but there are distinct problems. Your official seekers are either too big or too small to scale off their boss. Soundwave's options are either too big or too old. Shockwave's options are abysmal. On the other side, dudes like Ironhide don't have properly sized options. The larger folks have good options, the regular dudes have good options, the inbetween size characters are difficult to land in the right place.

The very definition of "bananas." See above

3. Opt into third party stuff, but do it carefully.

Tell me more about "carefully." As I fill in my wishlist with mainline figures, I'm going to start looking at 3P for the gaps or for characters that I may just want to continue collecting (i.e. Soundwave). I've already put in a pre-order for Make Toys Meteor and am looking at DX9's Invisible for my ersatz Mirage.

In fact, after PoTP, I think I'm pretty much done with mainline Hasbro toys, It's all MP, back-catalog Takara and 3P from here on out.

4. If nostalgia is as important as you say, prepare to import Takara versions of key characters. I would encourage you do do an experiment by buying something like Universe Sunstreaker and Henkei Sunstreaker. Put them side by side and see first hand where that extra money takes you.

This is an area I rely heavily on Google and YouTube for research. Takara isn't always better (IMHO) and there are a handful of figures that I much prefer the Hasbro versions (The aforementioned Perceptor, CW Megatron, CW Defensor). I wish I could just buy both, though. CW Megatron's mold-mate, Armada Megatron was a bit of a dilemma for me. Photography can be super-tricky. I was convinced that the Takara version was the best and the Hasbro version was butt-ugly...until I found a site (was it here?) that had very clear comparison shots showed the color difference not being that sharp. I went ahead and bought BBTS's 2-pack and could not have been happier. Ironically, even though I just wanted the G1-style Megs, I ended up absolutely loving the Armada Megatron. He's the one I display in bot mode, while G1 Megs sits as a tank.

5. Last but perhaps most important...be prepared to get multiple versions of some characters. What seems right in one cast may be less so as your collection evolves. I thought I was done with Ironhide once I got Henkei Ironhide, but ultimately it was another toy that filled that defined role.

Good luck.

Thanks. I've already got multiples, not counting my original G1s. MP Soundwave and TR Soundwave. CW Megatron and Armada Megatron. TR PM Optimus and MP-10V. In my own head canon, they can all coexist as my home is a Dimensional Nexus. I have a photo of the Soundwave "brothers" together fist-bumping. When I get a spare moment, I'm going to take a shot of the two Megatrons doing the "Wonder Twin powers ACTIVATE!" thing.

If you don't mind a 3P KO, you could get this version of Ratchet:

- http://sirtoys.com/toys.php?c=1&p=3542& ... tchet.html

Personally, I think it's too big for my CHUG collection, but some users have pointed out that Ratchet was a bit bigger than the other deluxe sized Autobots in the show.

I think when it comes to Ironhide and Ratchet, your best takes fall into these options:

iGear Weapon and Medical Specialists: Voyager sized and probably best scaled for the line




or Botcon: smaller, but faithfully G1 toy accurate and taller than most modern deluxe figures

I do really like the TFC ones and they aren’t as horrible as their hound.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:I do really like the TFC ones and they aren’t as horrible as their hound.

That's good since I'm picking up a $30 TFC Ironhide from the vintage shop later this afternoon

ScottyP wrote:

Razorclaw0000 wrote:I do really like the TFC ones and they aren’t as horrible as their hound.

That's good since I'm picking up a $30 TFC Ironhide from the vintage shop later this afternoon

Just watch for the rear view mirrors or surgically remove before they break on their own.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:

ScottyP wrote:

Razorclaw0000 wrote:I do really like the TFC ones and they aren’t as horrible as their hound.

That's good since I'm picking up a $30 TFC Ironhide from the vintage shop later this afternoon

Just watch for the rear view mirrors or surgically remove before they break on their own.

The dire warning in the instructions along with the insert pamphlet with the same dire warning printed on it made me keep my hands away appropriately Instructions are garbage otherwise, they have you do the final steps from bot to van in a strange, not possible order. There's a panel on each arm I need to shave down a little, it isn't actually possible to transform it perfectly as intended the way they made the part where the arms meet the back of the front of the roof.