The Energon Pub

I've gotten this from various Christians: Harry Potter is the Devil.

But what MAKES him evil? That he teaches kids between right and wrong? That it gives adults a good story of Good vs. Evil?

No, it's that he uses magic. OH NOEZ! ITS TEH MAGIKZ!

There's the problem. How is that at all evil? Harry never purposely used an attack spell other than to defend himself.

But it's witchcraft, and we all know witchcraft is evil...! If it were real...!

So, I leave it to you, various religions of the world, to explain to me how Harry Potter, a fictional novel about fantasy, is evil.

And keep it mildly serious. I don't want that "It's over played/it sucks" crap.

From the fundamental (baptist) point of view, anything that is not glorifying god is "evil". I say they are no better than a Islamic Suicide bomber. Pretty much anything that is not in their of view should be destroyed/banned/burned.

For Pete's sake it's fiction, it says so in the library, fiction=not true.

My mother is a very devout christian, and she reads the books. She reads them for entertainment, that is why they were written.

I love how these same people hate Harry Potter, but love The Chronicles of Narnia. A bunch of friggin' hypocrites!

There really is no way to explain this behavior except by ignorance. And if someone chooses to ignore this, they are stupid.

Well, Lewis used Narnia as a reimagining of the Christian myth, using Aslan in the Christ model. And he was very public in his faith, as was Tolkien, and he used Christianity as the central cog for most of his work.

But I think the primary Christian argument against 'magic' of any kind, besides the "thou shall not suffer a witch to live", is that magic denotes a mystical power that is not divine, and can be harnessed to achieve results that are 'supposed' to remain in the hands of God alone. By default, the only other source of that power in the Christian mythology is Satan.

Asderiphel wrote:Well, Lewis used Narnia as a reimagining of the Christian myth, using Aslan in the Christ model. And he was very public in his faith, as was Tolkien, and he used Christianity as the central cog for most of his work.

But I think the primary Christian argument against 'magic' of any kind, besides the "thou shall not suffer a witch to live", is that magic denotes a mystical power that is not divine, and can be harnessed to achieve results that are 'supposed' to remain in the hands of God alone. By default, the only other source of that power in the Christian mythology is Satan.

Tolkein was quite vocal that his works weren't a reimagining of christianity though, as wrote in a letter to milton walden, anymore than they where a reimagining of beowulf anyways.

either way i find HP to be far to cliche, what i can accept in tolkein i can't in HP becuase it just seems to be lacking innovation, maybe it's just becuase i read the worst witch as a kid and see it as a bit off a rip off.

was their a christian right backlash agaisnt mildred?

Tammuz wrote:
Tolkein was quite vocal that his works weren't a reimagining of christianity though, as wrote in a letter to milton walden, anymore than they where a reimagining of beowulf anyways.

either way i find HP to be far to cliche, what i can accept in tolkein i can't in HP becuase it just seems to be lacking innovation, maybe it's just becuase i read the worst witch as a kid and see it as a bit off a rip off.

was their a christian right backlash agaisnt mildred?

I was only saying Tolkien was devout personally; he was opposed to referencing religion in his work, and allegedly argued with Lewis quite a bit about the role faith is supposed to play in literature.

But I do know Catholics that love LOTR because of Tolkien's faith, but hate Potter because it has witches in it. Go figure.

I realy don't see a problem with it, its just another form of entertainment, how is HP any different then CoN or LOTR?

I had a flat mate a few years back who loved HP and claimed she was a real witch and that there were real spells in the movies and books. My bro has concerns that it teaches children to use magic to get out of daily situations (like the breaking of glasses), mind you, he was drunk when he got on that rant.

Regardless, what's the big f'ing deal, beeoch? There was a christain school in my home town that had a book burning. I thought that was a bit much.

As long as a christain individual doesn't make it an idol, ie. putting it before going to church, or attempts to conjure such antics, I dont' see a problem.

I mean, really, my mum's best friend reckons TF is evil! Go figure.

Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Probably anyway.

Poohy Ol' Negare wrote:There was a christain school in my home town that had a book burning.

\

Now, I've never really gotten this-- they have to pay for the books before they burn them, thereby supporting the author, so what the hells the point?

Poohy Ol' Negare wrote: I realy don't see a problem with it, its just another form of entertainment, how is HP any different then CoN or LOTR?

It's popular with young children.

Poohy Ol' Negare wrote:
I had a flat mate a few years back who loved HP and claimed she was a real witch and that there were real spells in the movies and books.

Your flatmate was not a witch, but rather, an idiot. See the difference?

Poohy Ol' Negare wrote:
My bro has concerns that it teaches children to use magic to get out of daily situations (like the breaking of glasses), mind you, he was drunk when he got on that rant.

Are you saying that you shouldn't use magic to fix broken glasses? Or, perhaps, are you saying you can't because IT'S NOT REAL, IT'S FANTASY?

Poohy Ol' Negare wrote:
Regardless, what's the big f'ing deal, beeoch? There was a christain school in my home town that had a book burning. I thought that was a bit much.

I would consider that to be a big deal. When a SCHOOL has a public BURNING OF BOOKS, every parent should see the red flag and yank their kids out of that school IMMEDIATELY.

Poohy Ol' Negare wrote:
As long as a christain individual doesn't make it an idol, ie. putting it before going to church, or attempts to conjure such antics, I dont' see a problem.

What if they DID want to make it an idol? What would happen then? Answer: NOTHING. They'd be worshipping a DIFFERENT piece of fiction with no effect whatsoever. And if they DO attempt to "conjure such antics" then they are either an idiot (like your flatmate) or a child participating in what's commonly referred to as "playing."

Poohy Ol' Negare wrote:
I mean, really, my mum's best friend reckons TF is evil! Go figure.

Sounds like she might be of the same variety of witch as your former flatmate. Seriously, when people think that TFs (a toy/cartoon/comic book/movie) is EVIL, there is serious problem with the way that person views the world. It's a very DANGEROUS delusion to operate under.

Professor Smooth wrote:It's popular with young children.

So's CoN,or it was in my day... *waves cane*.

Your flatmate was not a witch, but rather, an idiot. See the difference?

Yeah, I know, the saying "the wheel's spinning, but the hamster's dead" applied to her explicitly. She was a moron. We kicked her out.

Are you saying that you shouldn't use magic to fix broken glasses? Or, perhaps, are you saying you can't because IT'S NOT REAL, IT'S FANTASY?

I'd be concerned for the spiritual health of anyone who was able to fix glasses using witchcraft.

I would consider that to be a big deal. When a SCHOOL has a public BURNING OF BOOKS, every parent should see the red flag and yank their kids out of that school IMMEDIATELY.

I agree with you. I just crammed my statements together. I dont' think 7 year olds should proudly proclaim on TV that they're burning Harry potter books and if he was real they'd burn him too. I have issues with children being indoctrinated into a faith which promotes violence and book burning. What's next? Transformers comics?

What if they DID want to make it an idol? What would happen then? Answer: NOTHING. They'd be worshipping a DIFFERENT piece of fiction with no effect whatsoever. And if they DO attempt to "conjure such antics" then they are either an idiot (like your flatmate) or a child participating in what's commonly referred to as "playing."

I offered my comment regarding christain individuals who read HP. Whether one dis/believes in God is not the issue, I'm coming from a persepective where an individual who claims to be christain but would rather read a book about witchcraft as opposed to going to church, that's making it an idol, putting something ahead of the worship of God.

As for make beleive or a child playing "witch", I think concern shoudl be given at the level of play or how they view it. If its a kid in a black pointy hat with some lolly worms spouting gibberish, big deal, if its a child who builds an altar to Thoth, and burns offerings of pens, or dances around a bon fire with half naked wiccans, before slitting the throat of a goat, - that's what I'm concerned about a child doing. Aetheists might not, but that's their perogative.

Oh, and you lot have nooooooooo idea how big an idiot that flatmate was, I'd be here all day if I started on about her blatant stupidity.

Sounds like she might be of the same variety of witch as your former flatmate. Seriously, when people think that TFs (a toy/cartoon/comic book/movie) is EVIL, there is serious problem with the way that person views the world. It's a very DANGEROUS delusion to operate under.

Shes a strange one, she is.

should we be concerned if a child starts praying to jesus? as opposed to thoth?

and how do we tell the difference between someone fixing broken glasses through the power of god, and magic?

the christian belief is illogical, and at times ridiculous.
thats why i left it, they say retarded things like this all the time, im used to it i live in a house full of them.

mAGIC IS EVIL, HARRY POTTER IS THE DEVIL,only worship jesus or you will burn for eternity,aliens are actually demons in disguise, yeah sure, and i just say a pig fly by my window.

see what im saying,im not an athiest but it just irritates me when i say im not christian and someone says "oh lord!You dont believe in god!?"

Just let them talk and burn their books or whatever,
because i guess their god wants them to burn books for its satisfaction.

HArry Potter is deemed evil because he is using a power that does not come from an omnipotent being known as God.


But lets see.

What is a spell?

"a word, phrase, or form of words supposed to have magic power"

Now, what is a prayer?

"A reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship"

It's the same thing, if you cast a "spell" asking for someone to get better, or if you pray for someone to get better. All you're doing is putting in a request for a certain outcome.

It's the intent itself that gives a prayer or "spell" power.

Also, people who claim themselves to be "witches" are idiots. I've noticed that 90% of people who claim to be witches, have met one or more of the following criteria.

1. Over 40 and single
2. Fat
3. Goth/Punk/Alternative
4. Full of themselves
5. Talks frequently about past lives crap.

meh, thye always gotta find something evil, when i was a little kid my mom had a crazy woman going on and giving her pamphletes on how D&D was satanic and against god because it 'had real rituals', my mom just pointed out to the woman the she (my mom) was a bhuddist and couldn't give a rat's ass, and we walked away

and when the pokemon card game was popular they were whining about it being 'evil' because it had phsycic powers and evolution in it, now, it's harry potter.



anyway, i gotta go worship Yog-Sothoth, better get the butter

For all those of the christian faith, don't take this the wrong way. I mean this in the mob sense, not the individual practicers.

Christianity (and I mean this in the broad sense of the many branch offs) is retarded. Their savior, and god, is Hebrew. For however many hundreds of years though, they persecutited the Hebrew.

For all Jesus' preaching of tolerance and forgiveness, Christianity is a incredibly close-minded and intolerant religion.

Oddly, Hebrew's didn't really have a huge problem with magic, yet Christians do.

Every year Christians need to find something else to complain about. It changes from year to year. When Harry Potter first came out, there was a huge backlash against it in the US. Before the new movie, book, and game dropped, there was the load of bs "defense of marriage" crap. How honestly backwards are we that we believe that if two people of the same sex love each other, and want to get married, that will some how degrade the marriage of "straight" people?

Actually, if you look back, it's not just Hebrew--there's a lot of Buddhist lore in Christianity-- like the virgin birth of Buddha, the savior of man, conceived by Queen Maya after a vision, for which she traveled back to her homeland and was visited by prophets and angels. Considering Buddhist missionaries were being sent to Palastine as far back as 3rd century BC, it seems hardly coincidental.

This is true.

Dreadwind wrote:Their savior, and god, is Hebrew. For however many hundreds of years though, they persecutited the Hebrew.

There's actually no contradiction here, since they persecuted Jews (religion), not all Hebrews (ethnicity). Should a Hebrew have embraced Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, they wouldn't have been persecuted.

I like to think of myself as a Christian pragmatist. I believe in God and the Salvation of sins; however, I also recognize that the Bible is rife with contradiction, symbolism, and embellishment. It's impossible to take the Bible at its word, and also idiotic to try to do so.

I've noticed that the vast majority of Christians who speak in tongues, "exorcise" demons, and believe that Harry Potter is evil belong to lower socio-economic classes. These are also the people who are the most self-righteous and condemning. My personal opinion? That they have so little for them in life that they have to be the best at something, even if it is being a judgmental, hypocritical waste of oxygen. Hell, I broke up with a fiance four years ago over this exact argument.

I found out that she had gone to a Harry Potter book burning, and broke up with her over the phone. She was of the opinion that bringing up children in a house with "witchcraft" was evil and wrong. I called her a Nazi and told her not to darken my doorstep again. Yeah, immature on my part, but the comparison was spot-on.

I'm still angry, but I really can't be too upset from a logical standpoint. Religious fundamentalism and hypocrisy is rife across the entire Western hemisphere, and it's an unfortunate aspect of society that I'm trying to simply block out. I wish more people would focus on the positive aspects of Christianity, such as tolerance and forgiveness . . . but what can you do? Stick to your own guns and hope that a fire-and-brimestone Sodom and Gammora holy roller learns to be more tolerant, I guess.

I recognize that faith in a deity goes against the laws of reason, but I'm not going to renounce my faith because I'm pissed off at some uneducated, snarl-toothed, fritz-haired fat woman in a denim skirt and tennis shoes screaming that "'arry Potter is of Satan!"

Let's not forget that Jesus himself pointed out that many people who call themselves Christians don't know him at all. Ergo, it is not unreasonable to conclude that many vocal people who make a lot of noise in the name of Christianity have no real understanding of what they're talking about. This is particularly visible in the numbers of so-called Christians who call for violence, hate or persecution in any measure.

Now that that's off my chest - and I don't have the authority to say who is and isn't a Christian, I'm just pointing out what Jesus said - I can say that I am a Christian with a 100% belief in absolute Biblical truth. I also enjoy Harry Potter, a lot. For that matter, I read a lot of high fantasy, and play a magic-heavy LARP system.

Something that's been pointed out in less vocal circles is that the HP stories extol many characteristics - courage, personal integrity, self-sacrifice, love - which Christians would fall over themselves to praise in any other setting. It's just the witchcraft / sorcery thing.

I can see the point; as Christians, an interest in witchcraft is not something we want to be encouraging in our children. However, we have to temper that with the realisation that it is not given to Christians to force non-Christians to live 'our way'. Even leaving aside the fact that Christians do not have to live under them, the Old Testament laws were given to the Jews, for the Jews, and applied to the Jews - not to everyone else. Thus, 'suffer not a witch to live' means 'you cannot be part of God's chosen people and practise witchcraft', not 'go out and kill as many witches as you can find'.

Poohy Ol' Negare wrote:I had a flat mate a few years back who loved HP and claimed she was a real witch and that there were real spells in the movies and books.

Riight. She believed in the power of Mademuppus Latinium?

Poohy Ol' Negare wrote:if its a child who builds an altar to Thoth, and burns offerings of pens, or dances around a bon fire with half naked wiccans, before slitting the throat of a goat, - that's what I'm concerned about a child doing.

Just checking... is that your view of wiccans that's screwed up, or the fictional child's? 'Cause while they may or may not dance around naked (that'll vary from group to group and person to person), I think you'll be hard-pushed to find a wiccan that condones slitting the throat of a goat as a sacrifice.

Didn't think it was evil to get kids to like reading books. But we are talking extremist Christains who are complaining about them. It's all pretend people, get over it.

i hate the extremists as well, they are real-life Decpticreeps.

pardon me, but what is this post mode? i wish to post longer, more meaningful essays but something is broken.

I have to agree with Vega. I am also a Christian, and I do not see anything wrong with Harry Potter as long as you consider it for what it is, a piece of fiction.

If you go around with a broom between your legs and shout "Stupify" I think you have bigger issues to worry about.

The main problem I see with Christianity is that the negative is more focused on then the positive. There are several churches that help a lot of people out consistently, but usually the only things your hear about in the media is negative, which gives "non-believers" a bad point of view, whihc leads to ignorance and generalities.

Also consider the main flaw in any religion, they are comprised of people, and people make mistakes, miscontrue scripture or doctrine, and are never perfect. Only Christ is perfect.