RAR wrote:The premise is not unlike Terminator and how Judgement day keeps getting pushed forward and Skynet keeps getting more powerful.
Some people are a bit thick and think a single Skynet sent dozens of T-800 Model 101 Terminators - when actually it's a whole bunch of different skynets.
That is one of the things they actually got right in Terminator Genisys as it's essentially a very slightly tweaked version of the primary timeline (all be with other actors)
As I said before Into Darkeness & Star Trek 2009 have to take place in a Universe that has a number of perameters - HOWEVER certain things make it impossible for it to be the same Universe....as the Prime timeline you have to get crazy specific though to say why.
But in essence Spock Prime and Nero travelled both back in time & into a parallel dimension.
How do I know that - simple if they'd created a Daughter Universe (which is the common interpretation) then any changes would have to be ones that ONLY take place after Nero's arrival up to that point the time line has to be mostly consistent with a timeline that had Kahn in it.
The problem there is the history of Kahn varies if you could hypothetically ask Kirk Prime what the history of the Eugenics war was - you'd get a totally different answer from what Janeway would say.
please tell me how the "history of Kahn varies" and how Janeway would differ from kirk with an explanation?
and keep in mind i want canon answers, not info you gathered from novels,comics,or writer interviews
Likewise things like the Horizon Class / or Deadalus don't fit especially well with Enterprise's timeline.
thats your personal opinion.
i feel they fit fine
The explanation of arguments for why I am contesting that the Star Trek 2009 Universe is a daughter Universe before Nero shows up are a bit complex and they sort of rely on some assumptions (some of which may be disprovable).
The place the Klingons chase Kirk around is actually a province that was entirely agricultural in the 24th Century and had always been so (mentioned in DS9) so that they had turned it into an industrial zone is a big red flag that is a change..
a change...big red flag.........really?
Nope
The Ketha Province , "Ket'ha lowlands" on the Klingon homeworld was an area considered a wasteland by the Klingons, it did how ever contain some farmlands.It was also home to Martok and his family for over as long as he knew.
the klingons live by a strict caste system, if the province was entirely agricultural in nature, then Martoks family would have been part of a tradesmen and or farmers caste.
But thats not the case,Martoks family had been reputable soldiers and had loyally served the empire for 15 generations.
so the indication is that the "Ket'ha lowlands" was more of a ghetto where lower caste families gathered/lived.
You can argue that nero showing up is such a big even it changes Klingon History too - but it does seem a tiny bit unlikely that it's arrival would change Klingon armour styles, Space craft designs and industrial development - (not impossible no) but at least it's reasonable to say it's a stretch.
considering that the klingons held Nero, his ccrew and his ship captive for about 25 years, i can see how you can say anyv of thoses changes is a "stretch by any amount of reason".
likewise, none of this is a big problem for me - I'm quite happy to stand back and have a smile on my face seeing people like you trying to argue that the Kelvin doesnt fit into the prime timeline..and yet fail to make any points of substance.
But the Kelvin herself isn't a great fit in that time the only reason some people can buy it is it is a time before Human met the Klingons so they might have decided to built something not unlike the Galaxy Class concept of long voyages with families on board.
the Kelvin is NOT from a time before Human met the Klingons
we saw no evidence that the Kelvin had "families"on board.......we only know it had 1, and they both seemed to be officers.
But other people object to how huge it is, the general design cues, even it's weapons all seem a less than ideal fit and any sort of fit at all really only works in anyway as some sort of mid point between the NX & 2009 Enterprise.
not sure what you mean in regards to the weapons.
but the ships size is easy to explain, it could be a colony transport ship
The real fun and games start though if you subscribe to the idea that the Enterprise Kirk sees being built isn't the only one - and the Constitution class one also existed in that Universe prior to the 2009 version - but technology wise I think that would cause some serious problems.
why do you think that?
as to the issues with how phazors loooked, i chalk that up to creative licence