The Energon Pub

Kurdistan is an ethnic region in the Middle East that comprises between 25 and 36 million Kurds, the largest ethnicity in the world without a nation-state. At current, they are a harshly abused nationality in any of the counties they inhabit, but, with the rise of the Kurdish Auntonimous Republic, a hope of an independent home for the Kurds is starting to become a reality. Is pursuing it right? What should be done? How should do it? Ramifications, Etc.

I'll add the bulk of my input later, but I feel, as a government founded in rebellion and revolution for independence from open oppression, the USA would be hypocritical in pursuing anything other than the independence of a Kurdish state.

Well, the US government is hypocritical when it comes to other countries.

I'll bet they benefit from the Kurds not having it. Much more beneficial to sell them arms then give them a pieceful state.

Meh, when USA get bored, they just attack a poor country. Just leave them alone.

Nico wrote:Meh, when USA get bored, they just attack a poor country. Just leave them alone.

Not sure what you mean.

Cram them into Israel too.
Man, I am a glutton for crisis.
The Palestinians weren't too happy when they lost their property to The Jews. How do you think Turkey, Iran or Iraq would feel about giving land to the Kurds?
In order for them to get a state, the surrounding nations would have to annex land for them.
Anybody think that is gonna happen. I sure don't.
It's a shame too as they helped the U.S. before and after
'Shock and Awe"(man that was good t.v.).

DISCHARGE wrote:Cram them into Israel too.
Man, I am a glutton for crisis.
The Palestinians weren't too happy when they lost their property to The Jews. How do you think Turkey, Iran or Iraq would feel about giving land to the Kurds?
In order for them to get a state, the surrounding nations would have to annex land for them.
Anybody think that is gonna happen. I sure don't.
It's a shame too as they helped the U.S. before and after
'Shock and Awe"(man that was good t.v.).

The Jews hadn't inhabited that area in mass for centuries when the state of Israel was founded-- it was mostly a zionistic movement that got such action taken (and even then, before 1967, it was fairly-equally divide between the sharing parties)-- the problem is, if you look at charts like the below, you find the area we're talking about is near 100% Kurd-- the Middle East is essentially still a series of empires, with the majorities of the countries cutting out land to divide a people and grouping together to squash the movements for freedom. And note in most estimates there are more Kurds in that concentrated area than the sum total populous of Iraq. They have been actually living in the area for over 3000 years.






And the same trend actually goes for the Azeri, Arabs, and Balochs in Iran:

Damn, man, half of those sound like something out of a fantasy RPG.

Hey, great map of Iran.
I love looking at maps detailed with geography/population
and other statistics.
Where as the Kurds may populate the areas shown, that still
doesn't mean they have or will have any legal rights to
land they can consider a nation recognized by leaders of the world. Heck most countries don't recognize Israel.

My comment of sticking them in Israel was a joke nonetheless.
I also don't think the Armenians will want to give any land as they have been subject to mass genocide and in my world should be able to keep what they have as they don't have a lot.

DISCHARGE wrote:Hey, great map of Iran.
I love looking at maps detailed with geography/population
and other statistics.
Where as the Kurds may populate the areas shown, that still
doesn't mean they have or will have any legal rights to
land they can consider a nation recognized by leaders of the world. Heck most countries don't recognize Israel.

My comment of sticking them in Israel was a joke nonetheless.
I also don't think the Armenians will want to give any land as they have been subject to mass genocide and in my world should be able to keep what they have as they don't have a lot.

If anything, the Armenians should be getting more land with the Kuds, along with the Azeri (as in Azerbaijan). In fact, Azerbaijan currently holds within it a large geographic section of Armenians that has caused past conflict and is now on its way to becoming part of Armenia. Turkey, as much as the EU seems to be pimping it, is still a hell-hole in terms of human rights problems-- just wiki 'Cyprus'. In general, I'm against open partition unless it can prevent open 'legal' abuse by a government system, but the Middle East suites those criteria quite well.

Interestingly enough, I was searching the web and came across an ethnically/religiously-divided map made by a retired US General that, although a bit flawed, can show how screwed up things really are:

http://www.afji.com/2006/06/1833899





EDIT: Sorry-- I'm having a hard time shrinking things down.

It is a sorry state that millions of people die because of who or what they are.
I had not previously known that the borders of the Middle East were drawn up by Europeans. Do the people of the Middle east adhere to the ethnic borders or the lines drawn for them?
Most certainly Iran must follow the border lines as they pressed forth in capturing those British military personnel.

DISCHARGE wrote:It is a sorry state that millions of people die because of who or what they are.
I had not previously known that the borders of the Middle East were drawn up by Europeans. Do the people of the Middle east adhere to the ethnic borders or the lines drawn for them?
Most certainly Iran must follow the border lines as they pressed forth in capturing those British military personnel.

Just look up on wikipedia the dissolving of the Ottoman Empire after WWI, and you'll get an idea. Essentially, after lands were confiscated from the Turks, it was cut up and divided between the French and the English based on oil alottement, each controling their own sector, except for Armenia and what was a planned Kurdistan. Basically the same alottement based on oil happened with the Arabian Penninsula. But the 2 northern regional imperial powers, Turkey and Iran, took what was not directly given to the 2 European powers, and, through a revolution, the Turks "retook" what was to be a Kurdish state and most of Armenia, instigating a great genocide of the Armenians to "homogenize" eastern territory. See the Treaty of Sevres and Treaty of Lausanne.


What we are left with is an area were states are held together by little more than outward attack and oppression by the individual state's ruling ethnic majority being squeezed by 2 imposing powers (with 1 in the south). It's an odd mix to say, and it's hard to truly grasp what is actually going on in the minds of the people there. Though I'm not sure what Iran's thinking by kidnapping soldiers-- just being morons, I think.

EDIT: Some interesting maps and links:
Severes & Aftermath:

http://www.atlas-of-conflicts.com/areas ... 1-1920.php





Kurdish Aria & Iraqi Kurdistan:
http://www.travel-images.com/az-kurd-map.gif (Click-- It's way too big.)