The Energon Pub

Posted: **Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:08 pm**

I like this site, I really do. I'm on everyday after work, I've made a lot of friends and gotten really good advice on everything from toys to life issues. I have a lot of respect for this site, and the people on it. I just want to open this rather unpleasant subject with that first...

So here it is, in a nutshell: I just read Alex Kingdom's profile, and noticed that he's no longer active, due to an issue over a post that was censored. Being a moderator, I'm sure he understood the rules, so I have a hard time believing he broke the rules, and if he did so maybe he had good reason to. That's sad, it really is, he's a hell of a loss to this community, at least those of us who really care. I can't help but identify with his dilemma, at least partially. Here's what happened to me: I was known for almost 2 years on here as Raverunner. I was a good standing member of this community, 600+ posts, contributing and trying to be helpful to others with advice, etc. I made a lot of friends on here, many of whom I cherish dearly (that says a lot since I'm really not the sentimental type). Then, one day I join a rather heated debate. This debate happened to disagree with a certain Moderator's opinion (who will remain nameless even though he's not even here anymore), and we began engaging in an arguement through PM's. He began getting nasty, scolding me like a 5 year old, and being extremely abusive and condescending. So I replied in kind, which I agree was childish, but anger leads to stupid decisions. Next thing you know, I'm banned. Is that fair? Hell no. That explains that section, now here's the next:

Seibertron is owned by Ryan. Yes I acknowledge that 100%. We all agree to a set of rules to be members, I understand. But censorship is unfair, and there seems to be no one to police the Moderators. Now most are good and fair just doing their jobs, but you get a few who are on powertrips and that's not good. It's just like cops, some are great (Don't worry Fender Bender, you rock), some you just want to shoot. I think that if a person is to be banned, then they deserve a chance to be heard before either a separate moderator uninvolved with the incident, or by Seibertron himself who SHOULD in my opinion be the only one allowed to ban anyone. Furthermore, as I stated earlier, this site is Ryan's. But aren't the threads and posts the intellectual properties of the members who introduce them? I think we need to take a VERY close look at what we choose to censor, who's censoring, who's banning, why the person posted the "offensive" post. This site underwent some changes, now it's time the way it's run gets changed as well.

Sort of off topic, I believe it's time this site evolved and encompassed more. There's a lot of people, and even more interests. While this is a TF site, I think that it should include more. There are a lot of people with a variety of interests, I think that while TF's should stay in the spotlight, I think a permanent Macross section, Gundam section, etc. should be added. Yeah that'd take up some space, however if you combined like EVA's with Gundam's, etc...it'd work out. I just think to excel and truly stand out as the best fansite, it should use the knowledge and interests of it's community better not only to benefit them but itself.

I hope this doesn't anger to many people, but I just feel that somethings are really wrong here and feel it's something worth addressing. Granted some people deserve to be banned, censored, etc. but some don't, and all at least deserve the chance to be heard and explain their actions. I never got that chance, and my biggest fear is how many others didn't either.

Posted: **Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:44 pm**

Twelve months or so ago I would have posted something like this. But you know what? Things have changed. A lot of things seem to be more under control, put it down to a fine crew of Moderators*, or the fact the movie negativity is slowly dieing down (the movie forum was a fun place for a flame war if you wanted one).

But back to what Godmodule said, i've seen in the past from Mods who are no longer around, a "I'm a Moderator, I don't need to respect you but you need to respect me" attitude. Respect is earnt, not given. Suffice to say anyone who expects automatic respect because of some fancy title, well they won't be getting it from me.

Fortunately those on staff now don't seem to be egotistical and you can actually talk to them like regular every day humans.

Which is why if things are censored, you'll find you can talk to them in a civil manner.

Do things need to be changed? Maybe. I mean really, everything has to change eventually. As a "community" grows the people making up that community change as well and the way a community is run needs to be changed to fit the majority of the community.

If you've got a bunch of square pegs fitting into square holes, what's the hole going to do when it finds it's square pegs have suddenly had their edges smoothed and trimmed and are now circles?

*Except for Fender Bender. He needs to be fired. Especially with that funny smell he keeps leaving around threads he's been in. (And once again people, i'm just joking. I didn't insult FB once last week and I know he's feeling neglected because of it!)

Posted: **Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:47 pm**

From what I've gathered, Ryan and the staff never censor people. They may delete or modify individual posts when appropriate, but I highly doubt that Fender Bender is ever scrolling through the threads and going "Alright! Another Professor Smooth post! It's censorin' time!"

If someone posts comments that other users find offensive for one reason or another, those comments are subject to alteration. I'd imagine that the staff would love nothing more than to never have to edit a post, delete a topic, or ban a user. But they can't very well have members openly insulting one another in public. It sends a bad message to new visitors.

I for one think this site is at the best it has ever been, and that's definately including the forums. You say that something needs to change around here and I remember when I said exactly the same thing. But as Seibertron.com has never stopped changing since its creation almost a decade ago, I don't think you have to worry about it. If you don't like the way things are going, head over to another TF site for a bit. Maybe the site'll be more to your liking when you come back. The members may be different and the staff may have changed, but the site'll be right here where you left it.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:02 am**

I don't think I can fully answer everything here, but I can address a few points.

Godmodule wrote:So here it is, in a nutshell: I just read Alex Kingdom's profile, and noticed that he's no longer active, due to an issue over a post that was censored. Being a moderator, I'm sure he understood the rules, so I have a hard time believing he broke the rules, and if he did so maybe he had good reason to. That's sad, it really is, he's a hell of a loss to this community, at least those of us who really care. I can't help but identify with his dilemma, at least partially.

Alex Kingdom resigned his position as a moderator a couple months before this incident. Some of us agreed with his reasons, others did not. I don't know exactly what sparked his anger and caused him to break the rules the way he did, but he did anyways and suffered the consequences.

Here's what happened to me: I was known for almost 2 years on here as Raverunner. I was a good standing member of this community, 600+ posts, contributing and trying to be helpful to others with advice, etc. I made a lot of friends on here, many of whom I cherish dearly (that says a lot since I'm really not the sentimental type). Then, one day I join a rather heated debate. This debate happened to disagree with a certain Moderator's opinion (who will remain nameless even though he's not even here anymore), and we began engaging in an arguement through PM's. He began getting nasty, scolding me like a 5 year old, and being extremely abusive and condescending. So I replied in kind, which I agree was childish, but anger leads to stupid decisions. Next thing you know, I'm banned. Is that fair? Hell no. That explains that section, now here's the next:

I think I know which mod you are speaking of, and if he is, then I'm pretty sure that was among the reasons he was let go. I agree that it wasn't fair, and many others suffered needlessly because of him. That's the past though. I like to think there's a better bunch of people on staff though.

Seibertron is owned by Ryan. Yes I acknowledge that 100%. We all agree to a set of rules to be members, I understand. But censorship is unfair, and there seems to be no one to police the Moderators.

Not entirely true. If enough people complain about moderators, and those complaints are justified, then we can suffer the same fate.

It's just like cops, some are great (Don't worry Fender Bender, you rock), some you just want to shoot.

I hope I'm not one you want to shoot.

I think that if a person is to be banned, then they deserve a chance to be heard before either a separate moderator uninvolved with the incident, or by Seibertron himself

That's actually kind of what happens. In some not-so-clearcut cases, the staff are all part of the discussion

who SHOULD in my opinion be the only one allowed to ban anyone.

Seibs is much more interested in the site as a whole, and therefore he entrusts the Admin powers to those he trusts, such as Cyber Bishop, to carry out the managing of the boards. If Seibs had to come in on every ban request, less work would get done on the rest of the site.

Furthermore, as I stated earlier, this site is Ryan's. But aren't the threads and posts the intellectual properties of the members who introduce them?

I don't think I'm qualified to answer that fully, however in most corporations, there's a clause that says something like "All ideas and inventions are property of the corporation." Upon signing up, part of the code of conduct stated that all posts are subject to moderation or something to that effect.

I think we need to take a VERY close look at what we choose to censor, who's censoring, who's banning, why the person posted the "offensive" post. This site underwent some changes, now it's time the way it's run gets changed as well.

I personally don't like censoring either, unless of course it's a spambot or various racial slurs or curse words. Most of the time it doesn't occur, I like to think that we can let posters say what they want without worrying about not being able to find their post the next day. There are exceptions of course. Was AK's post wrongfully censored? Maybe, maybe not I wasn't there for that.

Sort of off topic, I believe it's time this site evolved and encompassed more. There's a lot of people, and even more interests. While this is a TF site, I think that it should include more. There are a lot of people with a variety of interests, I think that while TF's should stay in the spotlight, I think a permanent Macross section, Gundam section, etc. should be added. Yeah that'd take up some space, however if you combined like EVA's with Gundam's, etc...it'd work out. I just think to excel and truly stand out as the best fansite, it should use the knowledge and interests of it's community better not only to benefit them but itself.

The idea has been suggested in the past, however Ryan doesn't feel the same passion for those mecha as he does for TFs and thus they get sidelined.

I hope this doesn't anger to many people, but I just feel that somethings are really wrong here and feel it's something worth addressing. Granted some people deserve to be banned, censored, etc. but some don't, and all at least deserve the chance to be heard and explain their actions. I never got that chance, and my biggest fear is how many others didn't either.

Personally, I'm not mad. Anyone who takes the time to say what you just said should be taken seriously. Had you said "OMG SEIBERTRON SUXX0RZ!!!" Then I might have a different response.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:51 am**

Surely, if someone has a problem with a specific mod, they should just PM them and say what the problem is or ask them why they've done something. It doesn't have to have emotion; just a straight question should be enough to get a straight response. Any mod who deserves their position / title will respond professionally and with maturity.

As for having other sections on this site, that's kind of why GD and the Philosopher's Forum are here. The problem I forsee is, if there are separate sections for Gundam, Macross, etc., then there's the potential for users to want those sections to become more than what they are.

For example; users of the Gundam section may start wishing for Gundam galleries, and then pages dedicated to Gundam shows, and then a Gundam equivalent of the VSD, and so forth. Pretty soon people will be wanting those sections to have as much site space as Transformers, and if that happens to every section, then site space becomes usurped and this becomes less of a TF site and more of a generic mech site.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:34 am**

Burn wrote:
*Except for Fender Bender. He needs to be fired. Especially with that funny smell he keeps leaving around threads he's been in. (And once again people, i'm just joking. I didn't insult FB once last week and I know he's feeling neglected because of it!)

I thought you forgot about me.

Godmodule wrote: (Don't worry Fender Bender, you rock)

As for the topic at hand, my ego just inflated a couple points. :grin:

Professor Smooth wrote:From what I've gathered, Ryan and the staff never censor people. They may delete or modify individual posts when appropriate, but I highly doubt that Fender Bender is ever scrolling through the threads and going "Alright! Another Burn post! It's censorin' time!"

Fixed, and....

:WHISTLE:

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:46 am**

I think you can rest assured that the mods that are in place now know exactly how to handle the job! I've yet to see one of our current mods go on a power trip!

As for flaming in the movie forum... anyone remember the Don Murphy incident? Good times... good times.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:58 am**

I was going to comment but Mkall pretty much summed everything up in a nutshell. :grin:

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:13 am**

^I'd watch out for this mod, though. If Bishop moves to F6, you know you're in trouble...

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:08 am**

Leonardo wrote:^I'd watch out for this mod, though. If Bishop moves to F6, you know you're in trouble...

Checkmate.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:22 am**

What's a Mod?

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:46 am**

*blinks*...Ok. I'm heading back to work.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:16 am**

I think the latest additions to the staff (including me!) are regular guys and girls that care about the site. From my perspective, I have no problem with some one PMing me with questions or concerns. I think Leonardo's and MKall's posts both said it best. All I want to add is for all the rest of the people reading this post is keep up the great posting and thanks for being positive with each other!

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:17 am**

I, for one, think that this group of mods is the best I've seen working this site. I, too, have come and gone from this site during the years and am now on it everday nowadays because of how well a job they are doing and, as this thread has come to shown, how relaxed and sociable they are.

It is great to see a website where the owner and Mods don't act like bosses do in a company, but rather hang out like members in the group and, when the time calls for it, deal with situations that pop up.

Kudos to Ryan and all of the Mods!

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:34 am**

Ok, after finally being able to re-read everything here are my responses to some of these issues

Seibertron is owned by Ryan. Yes I acknowledge that 100%. We all agree to a set of rules to be members, I understand. But censorship is unfair, and there seems to be no one to police the Moderators.

If someone has an issue with a moderator, admin, news crew, etc I am pretty sure that Ryan would receive a PM about it, then either confront them about it or inform me and ask me to deal with it.
If it was something dealing with me, Ryan would handle it as he is my “boss”.

It's just like cops, some are great (Don't worry Fender Bender, you rock), some you just want to shoot.

I don’t think anyone from the current staff needs to be shot as this is now a great group to work with.

I think that if a person is to be banned, then they deserve a chance to be heard before either a separate moderator uninvolved with the incident, or by Seibertron himself

Sometimes if it is someone that is out to strictly cause trouble and slander they will end up get banned pretty quickly but for normal cases we have a process here. First you get 3 warnings then after 3 it comes down to a 3 day ban. 3 more warnings = 7 day ban. 2 more after that = permaban. (this is posted here)

who SHOULD in my opinion be the only one allowed to ban anyone.

This is why Ryan has a site admin, to handle the normal every day tasks around here. He knows that I am all about making Seibertron.com the best TF site that it can be and my interests are all about keeping this site’s integrity.

Furthermore, as I stated earlier, this site is Ryan's. But aren't the threads and posts the intellectual properties of the members who introduce them?

As Mkall said " Upon signing up, part of the code of conduct stated that all posts are subject to moderation or something to that effect” , this is correct, as before you register you have to click on the “agreement” before you can become a member here

I think we need to take a VERY close look at what we choose to censor, who's censoring, who's banning, why the person posted the "offensive" post. This site underwent some changes, now it's time the way it's run gets changed as well.

I am not a fan of censorship but if something is slanderous or hurtful is said then we have all the right in the world to modify it in order to keep the integrity of this site. We discuss problems and try to agree as a group. If a person is banned then I send them an email explaining the reasons and when they can return.
All we ask is keep the cursing down as there are a few young ones that post here.

Sort of off topic, I believe it's time this site evolved and encompassed more. There's a lot of people, and even more interests. While this is a TF site, I think that it should include more. There are a lot of people with a variety of interests, I think that while TF's should stay in the spotlight, I think a permanent Macross section, Gundam section, etc. should be added. Yeah that'd take up some space, however if you combined like EVA's with Gundam's, etc...it'd work out. I just think to excel and truly stand out as the best fansite, it should use the knowledge and interests of it's community better not only to benefit them but itself.

I can see if Ryan would let me create a section for this and I and a few others would deal with the moderation.

I hope this doesn't anger to many people, but I just feel that somethings are really wrong here and feel it's something worth addressing. Granted some people deserve to be banned, censored, etc. but some don't, and all at least deserve the chance to be heard and explain their actions. I never got that chance, and my biggest fear is how many others didn't either.

I honestly don’t see anything that is wrong around here, as you are the first person to bring anything like this up.
After Re-reading this post my thinking is that your may be stemming your opinions solely off what happened with Alex Kingdom since he was censored and you brought up his situation and the treatment you received in the past.
There were personal problems with Ryan and that is all I will bring up about Alex’s situation.
As far as your situation I would hope that none of the current mods or admin would speak to you in that manner, if so please contact me immediately.
We try to run things around here now by looking at problems (and potential problems) discussing them and taking any appropriate actions to resolve them.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:26 am**

The only thing I would really like to see changed is the way moderators seem to go up in thin air. I for one would like to be kept informed on who is being made moderator and who is leaving that position. Instead of having to learn about such facts in a thread like this.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:30 am**

Theres normally a good reason for not mentioning ones leaving in public. And we feel now that making a giant deal out of someone becoming a mod sort of puts them on a pedastal. Which in turn makes that person look better than the normal poster. And since we no longer like to do that, the announcements have been dropped on those subjects.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:36 am**

The mods rawk.

It's like the Justice League; each member brings something different to the table, like CB's ban power, Nightwatcher's sense of humor, and Fender Bender's ability to talk to fish.

That's right, I likened him to Aquaman.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:42 am**

Shadowman wrote:The mods rawk.

It's like the Justice League; each member brings something different to the table, like CB's ban power, Nightwatcher's sense of humor, and Fender Bender's ability to talk to fish.

That's right, I likened him to Aquaman.

That's not too bad to talk to fish. At least you didn't say "The Green Lantern", I mean, what does he do..."Hey guys, I have a flashlight".

If I was Aquaman I'd be all like "Hey fish, go unsnap that Bikini, yea."

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:49 am**

Looks like everything was said already that needed to be said. I think for the first time ever, we've got a staff running this site that truly has this site's best interests at heart. I think previous staff members thought they did, and I probably thought they did at the time as well, but the current staff is working together as a tight-knit team which has never really been how it has worked in the past. I've got a large group of the staff's phone numbers in my cell phone so it is really easy for all of us to communicate now (whereas in the past, most of the staff preferred to communicate via email or IM, which I prefer not to do as a primary form of communication).

I feel that my communication preferences in the past were a big part of the problem with the staff ... but I can't help that I don't like to talk on IM. I am a programmer by profession so by the time I get home, the last thing I want to do is start writing more emails or using IM tools to chat. I like to talk on the phone because I can do that while I'm going from point A to point B. Generally if I'm at home, I'm working on Seibertron.com so any time I spend writing emails or communicating via IM takes away time that I want to be working on Seibertron.com.

The suggestion about Gundam and Macross is really not something that I'm interested in having on this website. Seibertron.com is a website about Transformers. It's not a general toy website ... it's very specific to just about everything Transformers related. I'm not interested in owning a website that serves a more general purpose. On that note, I have been very interested in expanding Seibertron.com to include information about Pre-Transformers (Diaclone, Microman) and maybe even Go-Bots since all of that seems tied to Transformers on some level. The biggest problem is that I'm not an expert on Microman and Diaclone stuff and I really don't care much for the Go-Bots. Perhaps if some of the users or staff on this site could help me maintain and create the content for those sections, it could become a reality.

I think everything was summed up very nicely by the staff above. I have been really enjoying working with this great group of people and I couldn't ask for a better staff. There are a lot of really exciting things just beyond the horizon for this site that are going to be pretty cool things for the community to use and I can't wait until you guys finally get to see some of the stuff that we're working on behind the scenes.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:52 am**

GetterDragun wrote:
Shadowman wrote:The mods rawk.

It's like the Justice League; each member brings something different to the table, like CB's ban power, Nightwatcher's sense of humor, and Fender Bender's ability to talk to fish.

That's right, I likened him to Aquaman.

That's not too bad to talk to fish. At least you didn't say "The Green Lantern", I mean, what does he do..."Hey guys, I have a flashlight that could kill Superman IF I SO DESIRED".

fixxed.

GetterDragun wrote:If I was Aquaman I'd be all like "Hey fish, go unsnap that Bikini, yea."

Whoa, you found a useful situation for Aquaman. I'm not sure Wonder Woman would approve, but we could unsnap HER bikini too!

Aquaman is awesome! (But only at the beach)

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:54 am**

GetterDragun wrote:
Shadowman wrote:The mods rawk.

It's like the Justice League; each member brings something different to the table, like CB's ban power, Nightwatcher's sense of humor, and Fender Bender's ability to talk to fish.

That's right, I likened him to Aquaman.

That's not too bad to talk to fish. At least you didn't say "The Green Lantern", I mean, what does he do..."Hey guys, I have a flashlight".

If I was Aquaman I'd be all like "Hey fish, go unsnap that Bikini, yea."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcgaJQkbDEI

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:54 am**

Personally, I've never had a problem with any of the mods. They always talk with respect and put forth any argumentative cases well. Not saying that hasn't always been the case, but that's just my experience.

As for the Macross and other things, you could always start a thread about them in the GD. After all, there's a Doctor Who thread in there.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:16 pm**

Nightwatcher wrote:Theres normally a good reason for not mentioning ones leaving in public. And we feel now that making a giant deal out of someone becoming a mod sort of puts them on a pedastal. Which in turn makes that person look better than the normal poster. And since we no longer like to do that, the announcements have been dropped on those subjects.

There is a big difference in making a drama out of a mod leaving and just informing the members in a locked sticky announcement.
I see no reason why you wouldn't want to let the members know who is mod, who left and who joined.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:53 pm**

Godmodule wrote:Sort of off topic, I believe it's time this site evolved and encompassed more. There's a lot of people, and even more interests. While this is a TF site, I think that it should include more. There are a lot of people with a variety of interests, I think that while TF's should stay in the spotlight, I think a permanent Macross section, Gundam section, etc. should be added. Yeah that'd take up some space, however if you combined like EVA's with Gundam's, etc...it'd work out. I just think to excel and truly stand out as the best fansite, it should use the knowledge and interests of it's community better not only to benefit them but itself.

Again, thanks for the feedback. We have added a Mecha Forum to try this out (Give a BIG THANKS to Cyber Bishop for this).
The new forum is located here:
http://www.seibertron.com/forums/viewfo ... ?f=53&sid=

Please give it a try and we hope you enjoy it!

The Energon Pub

Something needs to be changed on this site...

Something needs to be changed on this site...

Re: Something needs to be changed on this site...

Re: Something needs to be changed on this site...