The Energon Pub

I seem to be enjoying this show, it has had some really stand out episodes that just make great story telling, where as others keep falling flat. It does one thing though, it keeps giving me something I really will enjoy, and pairing it with something I really don't like. For example, the battle on Ryloth, great, seeing some clones with a awesome jedi general, great. Then Jar Jar. Or next week, we get Greedo and Jaba. Then Ahsoka. Does anyone else feel this way? Or is it just general love or hatred for it?

Personally, I love the show, but watching it makes it even more awkward for me that Anakin became Darth Vader. Hell, Revenge of the Sith itself had me feeling this way. Anakin choosing to become a Sith was like "wait... what?" his character wasn't really developed in a way that made it seem natural. It felt forced. Now we have the clone wars, where is character is being fleshed out some, but he seems older and more mature than what we saw on screen. The whole series feels to me like it should follow it's own direction... perhaps an alternate star wars universe.

I can't get enough of the show. Sure there's some dodgy episodes but the bulk of it is made up with writing that piddles all over the movies.

Its a good show but I do miss the origional trilogy which they could do

Plus I have heard from friends that they seen kids go into stores and get the clone Wars figures and looking at Han Solo asking who he is

That disturbs me

Wheeljack35 wrote:Plus I have heard from friends that they seen kids go into stores and get the clone Wars figures and looking at Han Solo asking who he is

In a preview for the current season, they showed what looked like Clone Troopers, but with glowing blue visors.

So, the new season is supposed to have Clone Commandos. I really hope it's Delta Squad.

It's pretty much the low point of Star Wars, and considering this is the franchise that consists of three good movies, one not so good movie, three crap movies (one that actually isn't a movie at all) and hasn't published a decent prose fiction novel since round about the tail end of 2005, that's really saying something.

I read somewhere about how "respectful" the creators are with regard to SW canon. I have "respectful" in quotation marks because anyone who watches the series and is well versed in the canon of SW can see how "respectful" it is. (They changed the fact that Ryloth has no planetary rotation, the fact that Darth Maul has a brother apparently, the Mandalore trilogy, etc.)

Worst of all is Ahsoka. The whole prequel literature done while the prequels were being made has it incredibly crystal clear that Anakin Skywalker did NOT have a Padawn at all during the Clone Wars. The fact that the creators of the show decided to give him one shows you how much they care about canon. It's not exatly helped that she's an obvious Mary Sue kid character, designed to appeal to those under the age of twelve and nothing more. Any other sort of show in which such a character existed would have been cancelled within three episodes.

Shadowman wrote:In a preview for the current season, they showed what looked like Clone Troopers, but with glowing blue visors.

So, the new season is supposed to have Clone Commandos. I really hope it's Delta Squad.

I have been hoping that since episode one. I love Commandos, and if they can make it one of the better known squads, that would be awesome as well. If not, that's alright as well I guess, as long as we do get to see some Clone Commandos kicking some ass.

Darth Bombshell wrote:It's pretty much the low point of Star Wars, and considering this is the franchise that consists of three good movies, one not so good movie, three crap movies (one that actually isn't a movie at all) and hasn't published a decent prose fiction novel since round about the tail end of 2005, that's really saying something.

I read somewhere about how "respectful" the creators are with regard to SW canon. I have "respectful" in quotation marks because anyone who watches the series and is well versed in the canon of SW can see how "respectful" it is. (They changed the fact that Ryloth has no planetary rotation, the fact that Darth Maul has a brother apparently, the Mandalore trilogy, etc.)

Worst of all is Ahsoka. The whole prequel literature done while the prequels were being made has it incredibly crystal clear that Anakin Skywalker did NOT have a Padawn at all during the Clone Wars. The fact that the creators of the show decided to give him one shows you how much they care about canon. It's not exatly helped that she's an obvious Mary Sue kid character, designed to appeal to those under the age of twelve and nothing more. Any other sort of show in which such a character existed would have been cancelled within three episodes.

I will disagree with you that it's the low-point of the franchise. Yes, they did change some things, not alot of it is super important stuff that they changed, but I guess how some people could find it annoying. But I will agree with you on Ahsoka. She bugs me not for the fact that she is an apprentice to Anakin, I can give them that, because as a show, they needed someone that the younger audience could relate to. Alot of us older people cannot see this, and we just want the action that something like this or Transformers can give us, but for storytelling purposes, especially for the younger audiences that they are trying to reach, they do need a character like this. The thing that bugs me about her though, is that she is too perfect at things. She has single-handedly taken on both Grievous and Asajj. When someone gives either Obi-Wan or Anakin trouble, but this little padawan can take them on, that is just wrong to me. I might be mistaken by this, but I thought I remembered her fighting both of them on separate occasions.

Darth Bombshell wrote:the creators of the show

One of whom is George Lucas, (Actually Wookieepedia lists him as the only creator) who is allowed to retcon anything he wants since it's his universe and we're all just guests. Every major character is run by him first, and he even personally designed the Darksaber.

That said, these "continuity issues" convinced Karen Traviss to stop making Star Wars fiction, so all of these arguably gray clouds have an undeniably silver lining.

the problem with the clone wars is that it's creating too many loose ends IF it's supposed to tie in with the movies. I mean... wtf happened to Ahsoka? She's not in the films. I can't see them killing her at the end of the series. I'll agree though. it's annoying to see her, a PADAWAN take on apponents who give skywalker and kenobi issues. I mean hell, if she's holding her own that young, full grown she should be like a deus ex machina who personally saves the whole universe. I still stand by my earlier statement though. All this would be fine if they'd just go ahead and make this an alternate universe. If i recall correctly, during the teaser previews for this season they had yoda hinting at the "infinite possibilities of war" or something along those lines, like i might get my wish. I don't see it happening though.

Aluus wrote:All this would be fine if they'd just go ahead and make this an alternate universe.

It's not going to happen. Alternate universe stories aren't all that common in Star Wars (As far as I know, anyway) and they wouldn't go through all this trouble only to end with "Also it never really happened."

And, to elaborate on what I said about canon earlier, in terms of canon priority, the TV shows are only outranked by the movies and the word of George Lucas himself.

Also, on the subject of Grievous: Remember how, in Revenge of the Sith, upon meeting Grievous for the first time, (While unarmed and handcuffed) Anakin and Obi-Wan managed to force Grievous into a retreat? And how Obi-Wan was able to disarm him later on in a matter of minutes, killing him with a blaster pistol?

Also, that time Ahsoka fought Grievous, he was about to kill her when the Republic blew up the station's reactor, and she used the distraction to escape.

Shadowman wrote:One of whom is George Lucas, (Actually Wookieepedia lists him as the only creator) who is allowed to retcon anything he wants since it's his universe and we're all just guests. Every major character is run by him first, and he even personally designed the Darksaber.

It wouldn't bother me as much if he didn't do it all the freakin' time.

Shadowman wrote:That said, these "continuity issues" convinced Karen Traviss to stop making Star Wars fiction, so all of these arguably gray clouds have an undeniably silver lining.

Anything that can cause Miss "Three Million Clones-Obvious Crushing on Mandos-Misunderstanding of the basic concept of Star Wars" to quit is something to be applauded, yes.

ChrisRiss wrote:The thing that bugs me about her though, is that she is too perfect at things.

Being perfect at everything is the definition of a Mary Sue.

ChrisRiss wrote:She has single-handedly taken on both Grievous and Asajj. When someone gives either Obi-Wan or Anakin trouble, but this little padawan can take them on, that is just wrong to me. I might be mistaken by this, but I thought I remembered her fighting both of them on separate occasions.

"Duel of the Droids" and "Cloak of Darkness", respectively.

ChrisRiss wrote:She bugs me not for the fact that she is an apprentice to Anakin, I can give them that, because as a show, they needed someone that the younger audience could relate to. Alot of us older people cannot see this, and we just want the action that something like this or Transformers can give us, but for storytelling purposes, especially for the younger audiences that they are trying to reach, they do need a character like this.

The problem is that her first appearance in the Not-A-Movie, she spends pratcially the entire time either being annoyingly smug or whiny to the point where you want to rip your hair out. Frankly, how a character can have appeal like that, even to kids, depresses me.

Aluus wrote:the problem with the clone wars is that it's creating too many loose ends IF it's supposed to tie in with the movies. I mean... wtf happened to Ahsoka? She's not in the films. I can't see them killing her at the end of the series. I'll agree though. it's annoying to see her, a PADAWAN take on apponents who give skywalker and kenobi issues. I mean hell, if she's holding her own that young, full grown she should be like a deus ex machina who personally saves the whole universe. I still stand by my earlier statement though. All this would be fine if they'd just go ahead and make this an alternate universe. If i recall correctly, during the teaser previews for this season they had yoda hinting at the "infinite possibilities of war" or something along those lines, like i might get my wish. I don't see it happening though.

I have a feeling that at the end, she will end up living though it seems like she parishes, to explain her absence in Episode 3. Only she ends up being one of the hunted Jedi and is killed by Darth Vader during the time period bewteen Episodes 3 and 4. It would actually work as it would show just how ruthless Anakin would become.

I've missed out some, but has Anakin had any interaction with Grievous in this series? or have they been pretty good at keeping it so they never meet face to face until episode 3?

Roadbuster wrote:I have a feeling that at the end, she will end up living though it seems like she parishes, to explain her absence in Episode 3. Only she ends up being one of the hunted Jedi and is killed by Darth Vader during the time period bewteen Episodes 3 and 4. It would actually work as it would show just how ruthless Anakin would become.

I figured they'll either have her get killed, or she'd be turned to the Dark Side one way or another, and Anakin would be forced to kill her. Either way, intense emotional strife for Anakin.

Roadbuster wrote:I've missed out some, but has Anakin had any interaction with Grievous in this series? or have they been pretty good at keeping it so they never meet face to face until episode 3?

If I remember right, they were in the same area inside the Malevolence, but they didn't come particularly close to one another.

Roadbuster wrote:

Aluus wrote:the problem with the clone wars is that it's creating too many loose ends IF it's supposed to tie in with the movies. I mean... wtf happened to Ahsoka? She's not in the films. I can't see them killing her at the end of the series. I'll agree though. it's annoying to see her, a PADAWAN take on apponents who give skywalker and kenobi issues. I mean hell, if she's holding her own that young, full grown she should be like a deus ex machina who personally saves the whole universe. I still stand by my earlier statement though. All this would be fine if they'd just go ahead and make this an alternate universe. If i recall correctly, during the teaser previews for this season they had yoda hinting at the "infinite possibilities of war" or something along those lines, like i might get my wish. I don't see it happening though.

I have a feeling that at the end, she will end up living though it seems like she parishes, to explain her absence in Episode 3. Only she ends up being one of the hunted Jedi and is killed by Darth Vader during the time period bewteen Episodes 3 and 4. It would actually work as it would show just how ruthless Anakin would become.

With any luck, we'll get an Apprentice fight in Force Unleashed II with Ahsoka as a boss fight.

I love Karren Traviss and the Republic Commando novels. Any deconstruction that significantly causes the fanbase to nerdrage is evidently doing its job.

Matrix. wrote:I love Karren Traviss and the Republic Commando novels. Any deconstruction that significantly causes the fanbase to nerdrage is evidently doing its job.

We're not "nerdraging," there is no deconstruction, there is only her writing the Mandalorians as an Army of Mary Sues, and writing the Jedi as a bunch of nasty slave drivers. (Ignoring that Jedi showed more respect for the Clones than the Clones did) Not to mention killing Mara Jade in the most humiliating way possible even though it wasn't place to do that, (It was Timothy Zahn's character, and he still wanted to use her, he wasn't even told she was going to be killed) and how she's so adamant that there are only 3 million clones despite the fact that that's such a small number. (The US military currently has around 2.5 million personnel)

In short, Traviss leaving Star Wars fiction is the best thing to happen to SW since Empire Strikes Back.

I have only just started watching it, so I'm no expert like you guys, but here's my take.

-I love the Clones. They look so cool. I'm speaking generally here. As for the show, it's neat to see some of them becoming characters instead of just being clones.

-I am not the biggest fan of the (Not-A-)Movie, and a dude I know even tried to convince me that seeing it was selling out against 'true Star Wars,' whatever that meant. Not very good, but I thought it could have been worse.

-Mandalorians, like Clones, look awesome. I like how they've gotten some more play.

Aside from all that, on the Ahsoka end, I once again (AGAIN) find myself agreeing with Darth Bombshell. She's a hyper irritating Mary Sue, and theres no way she should be besting villains that the regular Jedi are struggling with.
As for her demise, I say she dies pre-EpIII, loading Anakin with grief and anger even before losing Padmae in EpIII. That's my idea, but as a boss fight in FUII??? That would be......well, boss.

I used to watch it, but then Cartoon Network switched to Digital. And We had that for about a year, then when season 2 started up, we got rid of it, and I havent sen it since.

Shadowman wrote:

Matrix. wrote:I love Karren Traviss and the Republic Commando novels. Any deconstruction that significantly causes the fanbase to nerdrage is evidently doing its job.

We're not "nerdraging," there is no deconstruction, there is only her writing the Mandalorians as an Army of Mary Sues, and writing the Jedi as a bunch of nasty slave drivers. (Ignoring that Jedi showed more respect for the Clones than the Clones did) Not to mention killing Mara Jade in the most humiliating way possible even though it wasn't place to do that, (It was Timothy Zahn's character, and he still wanted to use her, he wasn't even told she was going to be killed) and how she's so adamant that there are only 3 million clones despite the fact that that's such a small number. (The US military currently has around 2.5 million personnel)

In short, Traviss leaving Star Wars fiction is the best thing to happen to SW since Empire Strikes Back.

Wasn't aiming it at you personally, although it's very funny to watch someone claim they're not raging, and then bitterly listing the reasons he's... raging.

Matrix. wrote:Wasn't aiming it at you personally, although it's very funny to watch someone claim they're not raging, and then bitterly listing the reasons he's... raging.

There's a big difference between raging and listing all the well-documented reasons someone sucks. I like to think I was engaging in the latter.

Shadowman wrote:There's a big difference between raging and listing all the well-documented reasons someone sucks. I like to think I was engaging in the latter.

I think you were. It's incredibly funny to see people defend Karen Traviss despite her obvious lack of respect for Star Wars, given that the evidence to prove this is readily apparent. She openly admits to being a Mando lover, she openly admits that the Jedi treat the clones as a slave army and had Order 66 coming to them and openly admits that she doesn't read the work of other writers, which has basically been how Star Wars fiction used to be so consistent. Of course, it's still consistent...consistently bad. (There are some exceptions, like Death Troopers and Crosscurrent, but they stand out more because the majority of the novels are so awful.)

As for Mara's death...well, I personally like to equate it to the death of Tara from Buffy the Vampire Slayer: a character near and dear to fans hearts killed off the most ridiculous of reasons (in order to make another character walk down the dark path) when there were a lot more interesting options available to them, thus showing just how much the creators respect their own work and their fans. It's not exactly helping her case that she ends up writing another book in which she kills off another well loved character for stupid reasons, either.

And then there's the rumored spat with Troy Denning...

I don't read many of the novels, except maybe the Republic Commando ones. Though my friends do and they fill me in on what is happening. I never really thought about the things she does, but I guess its true, though I still really enjoy the RC novels. That may be just that I really love the idea of the Commandos though.

I like the series, but it's too damn long. I mean... just how long does the series' place in the timeline is? Three years? Add the cartoon Clone Wars to it, and the novel stuff, and it is more crammed three years than any EU period.

Plus, I don't like how mainstream characters are forced into the episodes. Can't there be more episodes without Rex/Padmé/Anakin/Ahsoka/Obi-Wan? A good example of this forced attempt was the three-parter episode where they needed to take out a ship with the huge ion cannon: Why did Padmé had to show up?

As for EU stuff: I've read the NJO, and just now reading Fury from LotF: I love the latest EU books. Mara's death was sad, but I didn't feel it as forced. Reading the Legacy comics, I don't imagine any character as immortal (well, except Artoo)