The Energon Pub

For my first topic here, I thought I would get your guy's opinions about the recent, shall we say, issues in the Star Wars Universe surrounding the Mandalorians.

For those of you who might not know:

Karen Traviss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Traviss

Is a somewhat infamous (now former) author of Expanded Universe Star Wars novels.
Her works for Star Wars include:
The Republic Commando Series: Hard Contact, Triple Zero, True Colors, Order 66, and 501st: Imperial Commando.
and Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines, Sacrifice and Revelations.

Before the issues surrounding her departure, she was know for her somewhat unconventional views of the Expanded Universe. Her focus was generally not on Jedi. Rather, in her Republic Commando series, she gave personalities to Clone troopers, making them more than the cannon fodder that they were previously displayed as. Showing that they have personal conflicts and typical human emotions.

She's also known for her near idolization of the Mandalorians, giving them a semi-complete language, history and unique characters. It can be argued that she made the Mandalorians what they are today.

Now, without going into any great detail, she portrays the Jedi as a somewhat arrogant and jaded organization that look down upon the clones, and the clones are the jedi's slave-victims. The clone commandos (bred with more personality than your standard clone) were trained for the most part by Mandalorians, most notably, Kal Skirata. Long story short, he encourages the clones to be their own person, and many settle down and have families. (If you want to know the whole story, read the books)

All in all, a pretty tragic story, but an interesting portrayal of the EU.

The Mandolorians are portrayed as a ancient, proud race, with values like family (not limited to bloodline) and honor. A tough race with a planet similar to earth, with the only real technology being their armor. They also are not really the mercenaries that they always are portrayed as, sure a lot of them are, but their planet and their people come first.

The thing that makes them so interesting to other factions is their fighting ability, and their metal, which with the right tempering, is resistant to blasters and lightsabers.

Now, enter the currently running TV series, The Clone Wars.

Touted as an expansion without messing up any continuity, it has been anything but, not to go into any detail, but there are quite a few issues.

Most notably, and discussed, of all is the Mandalorians.

Since this canon outweighs books, it is considered what actually happened.

The Mandalorians are now portrayed as a pacifist race (might I say in pretty much direct contradiction with what has been established), living above a uninhabitable Mandalore. Led by a dutchess, they are portrayed as more like Naboo than anything.

Not to mention the fact that the dutchess is a love insterest for Obi-Wan, contradicting his backstory.

But, back on subject.

Karen Traviss of course took exception to the fact that all of her work was basically rendered useless and promptly left Star Wars. This now leaves the story of the Republic Commandos unfinished, and it probably never will be.

Now for my opinion on the whole matter:

As you may be able to tell, I really like Traviss's interpretation of the Mandalorians.
I found it a refreshing take on the EU of SW.

However, this is not to say that I like her or everything she writes.

Her books have horrible grammar issues and she contradicts herself constantly.

She is also notorious for her "diplomatic" skills at one point insulting everyone who disagreed with her, even comparing them to the Taliban (Talifans).

However, she denys doing any of this and has since deleted any and all posts on her blog pertaining to any of this.

All this being said, I enjoyed the outlook, but not the author herself.

Now onto the TV series:

I generally don't like it, the Clone Wars has been beaten to death. I am frankly tired of it and want to see something from a different time period (Like Fate of the Jedi or KOTOR).

That's not to say that I didn't find some things enjoyable, the visuals are pretty good, and some episodes are really good (Lair of Grevious being one of them).
I also enjoy some of the new characters (Cad Bane being the main one)

But the simple fact is, I cannot ignore the fact that it was touted as something that would add to the EU, but has gone through continuity like an ax.

Grievous has a cough before Coruscant, Anakin having scars before the battle that he got them in, Obi-wan's relationship with the Mandalorian Dutchess, and the Mandalorians themselves.

It all boils down to this: I do not agree with what the series has done.

All in all, I feel sorry for Traviss, but she does not handle the public well.
And the series is beating a dead horse, but has its good moments.

I welcome your opinions on this matter, and will try to respond to each.

also, let me know if you guys want to see more of these types of discussions from me, as I have some more I could do.

Hoping to discuss this soon,

Slayershoop

I really dislike the written fiction for the EU.

It does so many things that irritate me in regards to fiction writing, especially in many of the ways it attempts to be clever or fresh by showing that "the forces of evil really aren't all that evil" and "the Jedi are akin to a religious institution so they must be corrupt internally". For me, there are just no surprises. It never seems clever and it never seems inspired.

I know. I'm stepping on a LOT of toes here. I know that people like this stuff (I think they HAVE to like it otherwise there's no Star Wars storytelling, so what choice do they have?) All the same, too much of the EU rubs me the wrong way. Then, when they DO something surprising...its not something I can enjoy in the fiction (RE: Chewbacca's death).

So, in summary...good. I'm glad some more of the EU is over written by official Lucas materials.

I know some of you feel really strongly on the SW EU stuff. I'm not trying to debate you. I know I'm shortchanging the body of work. All the same, it's an issue of preference for me and I just don't like it.

Counterpunch wrote:I really dislike the written fiction for the EU.

It does so many things that irritate me in regards to fiction writing, especially in many of the ways it attempts to be clever or fresh by showing that "the forces of evil really aren't all that evil" and "the Jedi are akin to a religious institution so they must be corrupt internally". For me, there are just no surprises. It never seems clever and it never seems inspired.

I know. I'm stepping on a LOT of toes here. I know that people like this stuff (I think they HAVE to like it otherwise there's no Star Wars storytelling, so what choice do they have?) All the same, too much of the EU rubs me the wrong way. Then, when they DO something surprising...its not something I can enjoy in the fiction (RE: Chewbacca's death).

So, in summary...good. I'm glad some more of the EU is over written by official Lucas materials.

I know some of you feel really strongly on the SW EU stuff. I'm not trying to debate you. I know I'm shortchanging the body of work. All the same, it's an issue of preference for me and I just don't like it.

Yeah, Chewie dying pissed me off. The vast majority of new EU stuff is crap (Legacy of The Force being the most prominent).

The thing that kills me is how there is no sense of cohesion in the Star Wars Universe anymore, everyone contradicts everyone.

They have also over-used the Skywalkers IMO, when they don't focus on them, it can be pretty good.

The only reason I stay semi-interested in the EU is the fact that my local library always has the new releases and I don't have to pay jack to read them.

Slayershoop wrote:Now, without going into any great detail, she portrays the Jedi as a somewhat arrogant and jaded organization that look down upon the clones, and the clones are the jedi's slave-victims.

Which was of course one of the ways she knows nothing about the franchise. The Jedi showed more respect for the Clones than the Clones showed for themselves.

Slayershoop wrote:The clone commandos (bred with more personality than your standard clone) were trained for the most part by Mandalorians, most notably, Kal Skirata. Long story short, he encourages the clones to be their own person, and many settle down and have families. (If you want to know the whole story, read the books)

They were bred with a 20 year lifespan.

Slayershoop wrote:The Mandolorians are portrayed as a ancient, proud race, with values like family (not limited to bloodline) and honor. A tough race with a planet similar to earth, with the only real technology being their armor. They also are not really the mercenaries that they always are portrayed as, sure a lot of them are, but their planet and their people come first.

They're adrenaline-based thrill-killers. Look up the Mandalorian Wars. That sure wasn't for honor or pride, It was because they really really wanted to fight the Republic and the Outer Rim had to suffer for it. As for their only tech being armor, look up the Basilisk War Droid.

Slayershoop wrote:The thing that makes them so interesting to other factions is their fighting ability, and their metal, which with the right tempering, is resistant to blasters and lightsabers.

Jango's wasn't resistent to lightsabers.

Slayershoop wrote:Since this canon outweighs books, it is considered what actually happened.

Yep, that's how it works.

Slayershoop wrote:The Mandalorians are now portrayed as a pacifist race (might I say in pretty much direct contradiction with what has been established), living above a uninhabitable Mandalore. Led by a dutchess, they are portrayed as more like Naboo than anything.

Close. The pacifist faction is one of many. They got to power by reasoning if the Mandalorians don't sit down and shut up, the Jedi were going to curbstomp them just like Revan did.

Slayershoop wrote:Karen Traviss of course took exception to the fact that all of her work was basically rendered useless and promptly left Star Wars.

Which is hypocritical, seeing as she spent much of her time disregarded the work of everyone else, culminating in the death of Mara Jade.

Slayershoop wrote:Anakin having scars before the battle that he got them in

He would have gotten them before the Battle of Christophsis, which would be the earliest in the series chronologically.

Slayershoop wrote:Yeah, Chewie dying pissed me off.

Dude, Chewbacca died like a badass. That moon was bearing down on him and he just stood there screaming at it. Probably the Wookiee equivalent of "You think I'm afraid of you?! I'm Chewbacca, you're just a stupid moon! Bring it on!"

Slayershoop wrote:They have also over-used the Skywalkers IMO, when they don't focus on them, it can be pretty good.

Well the Skywalkers ARE the main characters. Most fiction tends to focus on it's main characters.

Shadowman wrote:
Which was of course one of the ways she knows nothing about the franchise. The Jedi showed more respect for the Clones than the Clones showed for themselves.

They were bred with a 20 year lifespan.

They're adrenaline-based thrill-killers. Look up the Mandalorian Wars. That sure wasn't for honor or pride, It was because they really really wanted to fight the Republic and the Outer Rim had to suffer for it. As for their only tech being armor, look up the Basilisk War Droid.

Jango's wasn't resistent to lightsabers.

Yep, that's how it works.

Close. The pacifist faction is one of many. They got to power by reasoning if the Mandalorians don't sit down and shut up, the Jedi were going to curbstomp them just like Revan did.

Which is hypocritical, seeing as she spent much of her time disregarded the work of everyone else, culminating in the death of Mara Jade.

He would have gotten them before the Battle of Christophsis, which would be the earliest in the series chronologically.

Dude, Chewbacca died like a badass. That moon was bearing down on him and he just stood there screaming at it. Probably the Wookiee equivalent of "You think I'm afraid of you?! I'm Chewbacca, you're just a stupid moon! Bring it on!"

Well the Skywalkers ARE the main characters. Most fiction tends to focus on it's main characters.

Yeah, I'm not defending her or anything, in fact I think she's a talentless B***h, and blatantly ignores all established canon. However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.

The Mando wars were thousands of years before the time period being discussed, and that was an overly-simplistic view of the Mandos (but so is Traviss's view of the jedi).

Jango's armor wasn't beskar.

But, the pacifists directly contradict with everything established, not just what Traviss wrote.

I agree that Legacy of the Force was a giant crap-pile overall, Jacen and Mara dying being the low points. She had no right to kill off Mara.

His scars are a topic of contention, since Clone Wars timeline is so screwed up anyway, who knows anymore...

The fact that Chewie died in a situation where he could have lived pissed me off, it was just a plot device, I agree that his death was EPIC, for being pointless, they made is look good.

But, like I said, they have been overused, I enjoy things that don't focus on them, KOTOR being a good example.

Like I said, I can't stand Traviss, but I like the fact that it's from a different viewpoint and people other than jedi are given character.

Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.

I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.

I really, really hate Kota. And I know the rest of the Jedi don't share the same mindset. The last time someone was prevented from killing Palpatine, Order 66 happened.

As for Republic Commando, while I haven't read it, apparently it's been set in stone that Sev dies before the invasion of Kashyyyk and then Scorch becomes an angry jerk. but the problem was that the game never actually said Sev died, they just lost contact. And then they were ordered to go back to help with the Invasion! It would have been great setup to find Sev, rescue him, and NOT ruin Delta's two best characters at once.

Shadowman wrote:

Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.

I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.

IMHO I think Kota wanted to kill Palpatine himself and he was mad that he couldn't do it, because he was blind and cut off from the Force.

Cyberstrike wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.

I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.

IMHO I think Kota wanted to kill Palpatine himself and he was mad that he couldn't do it, because he was blind and cut off from the Force.

He stopped Starkiller because Starkiller was about to kill Palpatine out of anger. In any case, Kota was an idiot who screwed the Galaxy into the Galactic Civil War, doing the exact same thing Anakin did immediately before Order 66. (Well, okay, he didn't cut anyone's arm off, but the rest pretty closely mimics the lead-in to the Purge)

Shadowman wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.

I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.

IMHO I think Kota wanted to kill Palpatine himself and he was mad that he couldn't do it, because he was blind and cut off from the Force.

He stopped Starkiller because Starkiller was about to kill Palpatine out of anger. In any case, Kota was an idiot who screwed the Galaxy into the Galactic Civil War, doing the exact same thing Anakin did immediately before Order 66. (Well, okay, he didn't cut anyone's arm off, but the rest pretty closely mimics the lead-in to the Purge)

Totally agree, Kota pretty much screwed everything up and then expected that everyone was fine with him.

Anyway, I'm interested to hear Cyberstrike's opinion on the original matter.

But yeah, I hate Kota >.>

Shadowman wrote:As for Republic Commando, while I haven't read it, apparently it's been set in stone that Sev dies before the invasion of Kashyyyk and then Scorch becomes an angry jerk. but the problem was that the game never actually said Sev died, they just lost contact. And then they were ordered to go back to help with the Invasion! It would have been great setup to find Sev, rescue him, and NOT ruin Delta's two best characters at once.

Ah yes, Sev is missing in action in the aftermath of the Battle of Kashyyyk, with Walon Vau actively looking for him.

It's not just Scorch, all of the original Kamino clones are suffering from PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) and just react differently.

If I recall correctly, what set Scorch off is the local militia opposing the Republic bombing the mess hall of the Republic base, and Scorch saw a clone's head get sliced in half by a meal tray. He proceded to get really pissed and volunteer to clean the house the rebels were hiding in.

He killed all of them and spit on their dead bodies, afterwards, Etain starts counseling him and the other commandos.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and he kinda goes back to normal after they escape from the newly formed Empire and start to live on Mandalore.

Well, I literally grew up reading Star Wars books, so the Expanded Universe is more part of my view as anything. I didn't read much from Traviss until her Legacy books, and I like her portrayal of the mandalorians as much as the Kotor-time portrayal.
Also, I like NJO and Legacy - it finally feels like a serious series, not Thrackan chasing the Solo kids while you can hear the Looney Tunes' music, or jedis getting away with wiping out solar systems.

The majority of Clone Wars is a pile of slag, and I'd rather not take it as any part of canon.

Chaoslock wrote:Well, I literally grew up reading Star Wars books, so the Expanded Universe is more part of my view as anything. I didn't read much from Traviss until her Legacy books, and I like her portrayal of the mandalorians as much as the Kotor-time portrayal.
Also, I like NJO and Legacy - it finally feels like a serious series, not Thrackan chasing the Solo kids while you can hear the Looney Tunes' music, or jedis getting away with wiping out solar systems.

The majority of Clone Wars is a pile of slag, and I'd rather not take it as any part of canon.

I did like NJO, but I feel like Legacy was one of those "oh, here we go again with the Skywalker line becoming sith..."

STAR WARS, SERIOUS BUSINESS... I just had to >.>

I did enjoy the first Clone Wars series though, especially the ARC Trooper episodes, and I hated Thraken too, I'm so glad he got killed by Boba Fett and Han Solo

Other then that, I totally agree with you, goddamn I hate Thracken

Slayershoop wrote:

Shadowman wrote:As for Republic Commando, while I haven't read it, apparently it's been set in stone that Sev dies before the invasion of Kashyyyk and then Scorch becomes an angry jerk. but the problem was that the game never actually said Sev died, they just lost contact. And then they were ordered to go back to help with the Invasion! It would have been great setup to find Sev, rescue him, and NOT ruin Delta's two best characters at once.

Ah yes, Sev is missing in action in the aftermath of the Battle of Kashyyyk, with Walon Vau actively looking for him.

It's not just Scorch, all of the original Kamino clones are suffering from PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) and just react differently.

If I recall correctly, what set Scorch off is the local militia opposing the Republic bombing the mess hall of the Republic base, and Scorch saw a clone's head get sliced in half by a meal tray. He proceded to get really pissed and volunteer to clean the house the rebels were hiding in.

He killed all of them and spit on their dead bodies, afterwards, Etain starts counseling him and the other commandos.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and he kinda goes back to normal after they escape from the newly formed Empire and start to live on Mandalore.

Huh, the way I heard it, he remained consistently pissed that they left Sev behind, and constantly replayed Sev's last message in his helmet.

Still, saving Sev would have been a great opening for a sequel to Republic Commando.

Shadowman wrote:

Slayershoop wrote:

Shadowman wrote:As for Republic Commando, while I haven't read it, apparently it's been set in stone that Sev dies before the invasion of Kashyyyk and then Scorch becomes an angry jerk. but the problem was that the game never actually said Sev died, they just lost contact. And then they were ordered to go back to help with the Invasion! It would have been great setup to find Sev, rescue him, and NOT ruin Delta's two best characters at once.

Ah yes, Sev is missing in action in the aftermath of the Battle of Kashyyyk, with Walon Vau actively looking for him.

It's not just Scorch, all of the original Kamino clones are suffering from PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) and just react differently.

If I recall correctly, what set Scorch off is the local militia opposing the Republic bombing the mess hall of the Republic base, and Scorch saw a clone's head get sliced in half by a meal tray. He proceded to get really pissed and volunteer to clean the house the rebels were hiding in.

He killed all of them and spit on their dead bodies, afterwards, Etain starts counseling him and the other commandos.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and he kinda goes back to normal after they escape from the newly formed Empire and start to live on Mandalore.

Huh, the way I heard it, he remained consistently pissed that they left Sev behind, and constantly replayed Sev's last message in his helmet.

Still, saving Sev would have been a great opening for a sequel to Republic Commando.

Keep in mind, this is the book's version (haven't played the game in a while so I don't remember what exactly happened)

That would have been EPIC

Slayershoop wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.

I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.

IMHO I think Kota wanted to kill Palpatine himself and he was mad that he couldn't do it, because he was blind and cut off from the Force.

He stopped Starkiller because Starkiller was about to kill Palpatine out of anger. In any case, Kota was an idiot who screwed the Galaxy into the Galactic Civil War, doing the exact same thing Anakin did immediately before Order 66. (Well, okay, he didn't cut anyone's arm off, but the rest pretty closely mimics the lead-in to the Purge)

Totally agree, Kota pretty much screwed everything up and then expected that everyone was fine with him.

Anyway, I'm interested to hear Cyberstrike's opinion on the original matter.

But yeah, I hate Kota >.>

It's pretty much the same as Shadowman's I just think Kota is still bitter old drunken former Jedi would wanted to kill the Emerpror and/or Vader for personal glory.

Cyberstrike wrote:

Slayershoop wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.

I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.

IMHO I think Kota wanted to kill Palpatine himself and he was mad that he couldn't do it, because he was blind and cut off from the Force.

He stopped Starkiller because Starkiller was about to kill Palpatine out of anger. In any case, Kota was an idiot who screwed the Galaxy into the Galactic Civil War, doing the exact same thing Anakin did immediately before Order 66. (Well, okay, he didn't cut anyone's arm off, but the rest pretty closely mimics the lead-in to the Purge)

Totally agree, Kota pretty much screwed everything up and then expected that everyone was fine with him.

Anyway, I'm interested to hear Cyberstrike's opinion on the original matter.

But yeah, I hate Kota >.>

It's pretty much the same as Shadowman's I just think Kota is still bitter old drunken former Jedi would wanted to kill the Emerpror and/or Vader for personal glory.

Is your opinion the same as Shadowman's on the Mandos?

Wow, I stopped reading the EU books right after Vision of the Future, and it looks like I got out at the right time. 'Course, I also stopped caring about "canon" after TPM came out and invalidated a good part of the EU.

Skyfire77 wrote:Wow, I stopped reading the EU books right after Vision of the Future, and it looks like I got out at the right time. 'Course, I also stopped caring about "canon" after TPM came out and invalidated a good part of the EU.

There's only two rules on Star Wars canon:

1. At least try to respect the work of everyone else.

2. Rule #1 does not apply to George Lucas; it's his universe and he can contradict anything he wants.

Skyfire77 wrote:Wow, I stopped reading the EU books right after Vision of the Future, and it looks like I got out at the right time. 'Course, I also stopped caring about "canon" after TPM came out and invalidated a good part of the EU.

Yep, I only read 'em cause they're free

That being said, I have enjoyed some of it, NJO and Fate being some of it, and Republic Commando

Shadowman wrote:

Skyfire77 wrote:Wow, I stopped reading the EU books right after Vision of the Future, and it looks like I got out at the right time. 'Course, I also stopped caring about "canon" after TPM came out and invalidated a good part of the EU.

There's only two rules on Star Wars canon:

1. At least try to respect the work of everyone else.

2. Rule #1 does not apply to George Lucas; it's his universe and he can contradict anything he wants.

And look where #2 got us... *cough* Phantom Menace *cough*

Traviss just about raped #1, but other authors should have more priority than Lucas, cause IMO, they can write and he can't, but he created it so nothing I can do about it.

Slayershoop wrote:And look where #2 got us... *cough* Phantom Menace *cough*

Traviss just about raped #1, but other authors should have more priority than Lucas, cause IMO, they can write and he can't, but he created it so nothing I can do about it.

No, they shouldn't have priority over Lucas. He created Star Wars, it's his universe, and we're all just guests. How would you feel if you created some great, big, multifaceted universe, but it was decided because you weren't a good enough writer, you were no longer allowed to decide how your universe should play out, and it was left in the hands of what amounts to fanfiction?

In any case, no one can decide to undermine G-Canon seeing as how he owns everything Star Wars.

Shadowman wrote:

Slayershoop wrote:And look where #2 got us... *cough* Phantom Menace *cough*

Traviss just about raped #1, but other authors should have more priority than Lucas, cause IMO, they can write and he can't, but he created it so nothing I can do about it.

No, they shouldn't have priority over Lucas. He created Star Wars, it's his universe, and we're all just guests. How would you feel if you created some great, big, multifaceted universe, but it was decided because you weren't a good enough writer, you were no longer allowed to decide how your universe should play out, and it was left in the hands of what amounts to fanfiction?

In any case, no one can decide to undermine G-Canon seeing as how he owns everything Star Wars.

Oh yeah, of course he has priority, and he created what my be the greatest thing for nerds ever

Problem is, he no longer is what he used to be, if you watch the extras for the first two prequels, the other staff might as well have not been there. He tried to do everything and look at how it ended up.

The man just kind R-aped SW with Phantom Menace, but if he would let people help him, they could have been great. Oh, he could still have a lot of sway, but the man needs to learn to be able to not just do everything on his own. It's like no one questions him anymore, they just think that it will automatically be awesome (case and point, Jar Jar).

But I digress, I appreciate what the man has done, but there are people that are better at Star Wars than he is.

And to illustrate my point with comdedy,(thanks to Dead Metal)

Episode One: http://www.redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html
Episode Two: http://www.redlettermedia.com/clones.html

Slayershoop wrote:The man just kind R-aped SW with Phantom Menace

No, he didn't. He implemented some bad ideas (Jar Jar, too much talking, Jake Lloyd, even though Haley Joel Osment, an actually TALENTED child actor, applied for the role) but also some really, really good ones. (Improved Lightsaber combat, fleshing out the Old Republic and the Jedi Order, Mace Windu)

Attack of the Clones was almost exactly the same, but more extreme. What was worse in PM was even more horrible in AotC (I've seen Hayden Christensen do genuinely good dramatic acting, which confuses the hell out of me) and what was awesome was even more awesome. In particular, it kicked off the Clone Wars, which, and I don't care what you think, is my favorite Era in Star Wars. It also brought Aayla Secura into G-Canon.

Hell, the only way they could have made the Clone Wars better is by somehow bringing Revan back to life. And I wouldn't put it past him. The Old Republic MMO is making some weird implications about what went on after he left for the Unknown Regions.

Shadowman wrote:

Slayershoop wrote:The man just kind R-aped SW with Phantom Menace

No, he didn't. He implemented some bad ideas (Jar Jar, too much talking, Jake Lloyd, even though Haley Joel Osment, an actually TALENTED child actor, applied for the role) but also some really, really good ones. (Improved Lightsaber combat, fleshing out the Old Republic and the Jedi Order, Mace Windu)

Attack of the Clones was almost exactly the same, but more extreme. What was worse in PM was even more horrible in AotC (I've seen Hayden Christensen do genuinely good dramatic acting, which confuses the hell out of me) and what was awesome was even more awesome. In particular, it kicked off the Clone Wars, which, and I don't care what you think, is my favorite Era in Star Wars. It also brought Aayla Secura into G-Canon.

Hell, the only way they could have made the Clone Wars better is by somehow bringing Revan back to life. And I wouldn't put it past him. The Old Republic MMO is making some weird implications about what went on after he left for the Unknown Regions.

Ah yes, TOR, I don't know what to think of what that's all about. Like I said watch those reviews long but oh so worth it, he actually makes some valid points too. It kind of explains my thoughts on the first two prequels pretty well.

I do like some of the Clone Wars era, but the lesser known stuff. (Shatterpoints was awesome), but alas, the main stuff, not so much.

Slayershoop wrote:Ah yes, TOR, I don't know what to think of what that's all about.

It's an MMO sequel to KOTOR, from BioWare, set a few hundred years after KOTORII, using storytelling methods from Mass Effect. Every word I just said after "MMO" makes me giddy enough that I forget that I don't like playing MMOs.