The Energon Pub

if so, what characters/figure-elements get you going?

enjoy some pics in the meantime

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12121138@N ... 949338506/

My aim is to own at least one Chogokin toy, seeing as I don't have one yet. I just want to feel the heft and weight, and feel the gorgeous metal. My short list:

- GoLion (Voltron III)
- Sun Vulcan
- Gingaioh (Japanese Galaxy Megazord)
- GaoKing (Japanese Wild Force Megazord)
- SenpuuJin (Japanese Storm Megazord)
- GouraiJin (Japanese Thunder Megazord)

Yes, these Megazords were released under the Chogokin label. I'm also eyeing some older toys like Daltanias.

ME! I love japanese toys. Favorite chokogin toy is daimos

I have no personal experience with vintage chogokin but I'm a fan of modern chogokin. I don't have many and most of what I have are chogokin relatives such as S.H. Figuarts, S.I.C., and such. My "truer" chogokin in my collection at this point are SoC GX-49(Shin Mazinger Big Bang Punch ver.), Super Robot Chogokin Mazinger Z and Great Mazinger. I also have Metal Build 00 Gundam Seven Swords, which is basically a Gundam chogokin.

As far as what characters/figure-elements get me going...well, the metal content for sure. The heft of having the diecast metal gives the figures a more substantial physical presence. I also like seeing robot designs realized in three dimensions, whether they're true to the original design or re-imagined.

i had restarted figure collecting in about 2001, & even though i had & loved the transformers of the 80s, i wasn't falling over myself to get any classic molds.... when i started getting into chogokin, tho, for some reason i wanted to have some vintage bots as well as their slicker modern interpretations...

old or new, there's nothing like handing one to someone & seeing them impressed by how 'heavy' they are

I just read a review on SoC Daltanious, just gorgeous! To think he was the main contender for Lion Voltron, but being passed over (accidentally) by GoLion...

A shame he's so expensive though.

can i get a woot? this guy's a real beaut'!
this bot is hot, this gokin is smokin (sorry, got all giddy )

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12121138@N ... 1685773803

zonkers wrote:can i get a woot? this guy's a real beaut'!
this bot is hot, this gokin is smokin (sorry, got all giddy )

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12121138@N ... 1685773803

mazinkaiser-skl1.jpg

He looks so better than mazinger z and great mazinger

i think that's natural considering Mazinger Z & Great Mazinger came from the 70s, & Mazinkaizer is "21st century"

SKL is just a "wannabe Mazinger".

I'm sorry you're bored!

And I LOVE Chicken! Chicken is full of protein and healthy vitamins that promote health! It is also very delicious and a great family meal, I prefer Teriyaki over most, but all is pretty much delicious to me!

(Seriously, I have no idea what Chogokin is. I don't even know why I am even posting in this thread in the first place. Ah well, hope this thread succeeds in the future!)

Nico wrote:SKL is just a "wannabe Mazinger".

Agreed!

Convotron wrote:

Nico wrote:SKL is just a "wannabe Mazinger".

Agreed!

*ack!* haters!

zonkers wrote:

Convotron wrote:

Nico wrote:SKL is just a "wannabe Mazinger".

Agreed!

*ack!* haters!

As a fan of the Mazinger franchise, no, I'm not a hater. Also, to clarify, the SRC Mazinkaiser SKL figure is great but the Mazinkaiser SKL mecha design doesn't do much for me. Looking at how the flow of design evolution of Mazinger to Great Mazinger to Grendizer to Mazinkaiser, I can see each design bringing something new to the table. Mazinkaiser SKL is basically Mazinkaiser given a poser death metal visual make-over.

Now, if you want some hate, I could criticize the Mazinkaiser SKL OVA as well as Bandai's decision to release the SRC Mazinkaiser SKL as a Tamashii Web Shop Exclusive product.

Convotron wrote:As a fan of the Mazinger franchise, no, I'm not a hater. Also, to clarify, the SRC Mazinkaiser SKL figure is great but the Mazinkaiser SKL mecha design doesn't do much for me. Looking at how the flow of design evolution of Mazinger to Great Mazinger to Grendizer to Mazinkaiser, I can see each design bringing something new to the table. Mazinkaiser SKL is basically Mazinkaiser given a poser death metal visual make-over.

Now, if you want some hate, I could criticize the Mazinkaiser SKL OVA as well as Bandai's decision to release the SRC Mazinkaiser SKL as a Tamashii Web Shop Exclusive product.

"death metal" i'll accept, but "poser" is still hatin'

what's wrong with the Mazinkaiser SKL OVAs? reinvention & change-ups in continuity are nothing new in the anime kingdom. a new land, new factions, new characters-- it's all good to me. plus the animation is just downright kick-ass

zonkers wrote:"death metal" i'll accept, but "poser" is still hatin'

what's wrong with the Mazinkaiser SKL OVAs? reinvention & change-ups in continuity are nothing new in the anime kingdom. a new land, new factions, new characters-- it's all good to me. plus the animation is just downright kick-ass

Call it "hatin'" but poser death metal is an apt description for spikes, a couple of skulls, and a black dominated colour scheme.

What isn't wrong with the Mazinkaiser SKL OVAs is a better question.

Just off the top of my head, the OVAs are full of cliche and derivative concepts, the plot is basic and goes nowhere, there's nothing to make me root for the protagonists, and the antagonists are barely villain-of-the-week quality.

As far as reinvention and change ups in continuity, Shin Mazinger Shougeki! Z Hen is a much better effort.

You can love Mazinkaiser SKL to death, it's your prerogative, but please bring more to the table than accusations of "hatin'" if you want to counter any criticism.

ok, so we can agree that people have different tastes & this is an ok thing

i've seen shin mazinger shougeki, & loved it too.. i think they were just able to make more story & plot depth because they had 26 episodes instead of 3...

personally, i think you're over-analyzing mazinger... i don't think its meant to be taken this seriously, but that's just me.. i mean, if i had to look at any stretch of mazinger & critique it as fiction, its all drek... but that's part of the charm of it, its cheesy, ridiculous, over-the-top stories & characters.. in the end, its just about *fun*

but as for 'hatin', any form of unsolicited negativity qualifies.. you didn't like mazinger skl.. that's fine... so why post about it? did it bother you so much you had to go out of your way to put it down? what's gained by pissing on someone's enjoyment? anyway, i'm done on the matter...

i love anime, i love chogokin (& transformers, too, of course!), & i think mazinkaiser skl is just fine on both counts

While looking for some info about SKL dvd release date, I came across this topic. There are some things I want to discuss.

Convotron wrote:Looking at how the flow of design evolution of Mazinger to Great Mazinger to Grendizer to Mazinkaiser, I can see each design bringing something new to the table. Mazinkaiser SKL is basically Mazinkaiser given a poser death metal visual make-over.

The new Mazinkaiser at least brought guns and the way they both fit on the chest to form the head of devilman is rather genius. I don't even know why you're considering Grendizer since he's not a Mazinger. Go Nagai was even against the idea of making Grendizer's universe related to Mazinger, but that was Toei's request for the tv series. But if you're really thinking into this evolution thing, then what about God Mazinger? Where does he fit? Heck, what about Mazinger U.S.A or the Mazinger Z from Mazinsaga?

Just off the top of my head, the OVAs are full of cliche and derivative concepts, the plot is basic and goes nowhere, there's nothing to make me root for the protagonists, and the antagonists are barely villain-of-the-week quality.

Are you really a Mazinger fan? The whole franchise is full of cliches and derivative concepts. The plot is basic but I see that hardly as a problem considering that SKL is primarily an action series. But seriously, the Mazinger series was never known for its plot. There's also an ongoing Mazinkaiser SKL manga that acts as both a prequel and a retelling to the OVA. That's really for those who want to get more into the backstory of the show.

As far as reinvention and change ups in continuity, Shin Mazinger Shougeki! Z Hen is a much better effort.

It also had 26 episodes to tell its tale. SKL has a manga to make up for the short OVA. Shouldn't we look into the efforts of that one too?

This is nothing personal, zonkers, but either you aren't understanding the content of my posts or you're being overly defensive. So to clarify, I'll address your points, which I hate to do because I normally try to be concise and clear when I take the time to post anything beyond a single word post.

So.

Here.

I.

Go.

zonkers wrote:ok, so we can agree that people have different tastes & this is an ok thing

Yes. We agree on that. I never stated that I thought that someone else's preference was a point of contention.

zonkers wrote:i've seen shin mazinger shougeki, & loved it too.. i think they were just able to make more story & plot depth because they had 26 episodes instead of 3...

Being a 3 episode OVA series doesn't excuse Mazinkaiser SKL from the criticisms I expressed. There are numerous examples of stories in various formats that are far shorter than a TV show series(ie. single episode OVAs, movies, comic book one shots, short stories, etc.) that are able to provide plots that have significant progression from start to finish.

Quality writing, which Mazinkaiser SKL lacked, allows a story, whether it's a short OVA series or an entire season of TV show episodes, to accomplish much by the time of its conclusion.

zonkers wrote:personally, i think you're over-analyzing mazinger... i don't think its meant to be taken this seriously, but that's just me.. i mean, if i had to look at any stretch of mazinger & critique it as fiction, its all drek... but that's part of the charm of it, its cheesy, ridiculous, over-the-top stories & characters.. in the end, its just about *fun*

I've watched the Mazinkaiser SKL OVA series once. I came to my conclusion from that single viewing. Frankly, if my brief list of criticisms, which I stated came "off the top of my head" constitutes as over-analyzing, then what would be a normal analysis? A simple "I liked it." or "I didn't like it."?

zonkers wrote:but as for 'hatin', any form of unsolicited negativity qualifies.. you didn't like mazinger skl.. that's fine... so why post about it? did it bother you so much you had to go out of your way to put it down? what's gained by pissing on someone's enjoyment? anyway, i'm done on the matter...

Unsolicited negativity? Criticism is not negativity. As far as unsolicited, by starting a thread in a discussion forum, you're soliciting responses, which is what you got. You asked what was wrong with the Mazinkaiser SKL OVAs. I responded.

As far as posting about it, I simply agreed with Nico's opinion that Mazinkaiser SKL is a "wannabe Mazinger". You are the one who pointed fingers at people by accusing us of being haters.

You accuse me of putting Mazinkaiser SKL down and pissing on someone's enjoyment. That's insulting.

Let's get this clear. You invited my opinion into the discussion. I took the time to provide my thoughts on the matter, and when you can't take a view that doesn't unconditionally praise something you like, I'm somehow a hater. If that's what you think, that's what you think.

Convotron wrote:So.

Here.

I.

Go.

ok now you're just starting to come off as a condescending troll...

Convotron wrote:As far as posting about it, I simply agreed with Nico's opinion that Mazinkaiser SKL is a "wannabe Mazinger". You are the one who pointed fingers at people by accusing us of being haters.

i did so jokingly, hence the smiley sticking out his tongue

Convotron wrote:You accuse me of putting Mazinkaiser SKL down and pissing on someone's enjoyment. That's insulting.

you labeled it as 'poser death metal', & you don't think your own comments have an insulting tone?

Convotron wrote:Let's get this clear.

more condescension...


if people are talking about something they enjoy (which these forums are all about), & that thing just isn't your cup of tea, then why not just read a different post? its like if you don't like the quality of programming on tv, then change the channel....

Goblinator wrote:The new Mazinkaiser at least brought guns and the way they both fit on the chest to form the head of devilman is rather genius. I don't even know why you're considering Grendizer since he's not a Mazinger. Go Nagai was even against the idea of making Grendizer's universe related to Mazinger, but that was Toei's request for the tv series. But if you're really thinking into this evolution thing, then what about God Mazinger? Where does he fit? Heck, what about Mazinger U.S.A or the Mazinger Z from Mazinsaga?

To be honest, I do think the Breast Triggers are an interesting design point for SKL and I do like the Skull/SKL Pilder.

With respect to Grendizer, its design influence is obvious, regardless of the background of its production. God Mazinger is part of the Mazinger franchise but its design deviates from the Mazinger "family tree" significantly because of its concept, which was supernatural rather than super robot. The same goes for Mazinsaga, which was body armour, not a super robot. Mazinger USA's design is basically a tweaked Mazinger Z design. It wouldn't make sense to include it in a post of mine where I was pointing out design evolution flow as I don't consider it necessarily a totally new Mazinger because it's Mazinger redesigned for the American market.

Goblinator wrote:Are you really a Mazinger fan? The whole franchise is full of cliches and derivative concepts. The plot is basic but I see that hardly as a problem considering that SKL is primarily an action series. But seriously, the Mazinger series was never known for its plot. There's also an ongoing Mazinkaiser SKL manga that acts as both a prequel and a retelling to the OVA. That's really for those who want to get more into the backstory of the show.

Yes, I am a fan. Mazinger Z created most of those cliches and concepts.

For an example of a cliche I saw in SKL that I think was lazy and could have been easily avoided, look at the pairing of Ken and Ryo. Ken is an out of control hot blooded character. Nothing more. Ryo is the cool and collected character with a mysterious past. He loses his cool when he's reminded of something traumatic and the hot blooded counter part helps bring him back to his senses. That cliche has been done to death. I like the concept of paired pilots for Mazinkaiser SKL, but the characters are cookie cutter at best.

SKL is primarily an action series...that excuses it from having a poor story? Genre doesn't excuse quality of writing. SKL doesn't have to be high art but simply saying that it's an "action story" doesn't give it an automatic pass either.

Goblinator wrote:It also had 26 episodes to tell its tale. SKL has a manga to make up for the short OVA. Shouldn't we look into the efforts of that one too?

[/quote][/quote]

I'm judging the Mazinkaiser SKL OVA series, not additional media. Even if the manga is good, it doesn't change the criticisms I have of the OVAs. Despite being a 3 OVA series, it could have delivered much more in the story department. Certainly, it is an action packed story so less time is given for plot development but it doesn't take a dialogue filled script to make a story better. The plot was basically used as a way to link the action sequences together.

I'm not asking for Mazinkaiser SKL to be award winning quality but I was asked what was wrong with it and I gave my critique. It's as simple as that.

zonkers wrote:ok now you're just starting to come off as a condescending troll...

Condescending, yes, I can see that but a troll? No. If I was trolling, I wouldn't actually address your points. I'd simply try to instigate conflict with baseless insults.

zonkers wrote:i did so jokingly, hence the smiley sticking out his tongue

Simply putting a smiley face at the end of a sentence doesn't change the content of that sentence, especially after you follow up with posts that do not imply in any way that you were joking. You stated I provided unsolicited negativity and thus was a hater. You didn't say "Hey, I was just joking. I'm just a fan of Mazinkaiser SKL.". At that point, I wouldn't have anything else to respond with. It would have ended at that.

zonkers wrote:you labeled it as 'poser death metal', & you don't think your own comments have an insulting tone?

Poser...as in insincere. Sticking skulls, spikes, and black colours on something doesn't make it truly death metal any more than putting on cowboy boots make me a real cowboy. "Poser death metal" is a description of visual style.

zonkers wrote:more condescension...


if people are talking about something they enjoy (which these forums are all about), & that thing just isn't your cup of tea, then why not just read a different post? its like if you don't like the quality of programming on tv, then change the channel....

Please consider your own advice. If you didn't care for the "Agreed!" comment I made, that's fine. However, you opened further discussion by your own responses, which I responded to. That's how discussions work, they're a series of responses.

This is the "General Discussion" forum, not "Let's talk about things we all love and not disagree with anyone at all" forum.

I'm not here to cause trouble but if someone makes a post I feel inclined to respond to, I'll respond. If a mod thinks I'm out of line, I'll end it, no questions asked. I'll put it this way: I've never flamed anyone during my time here. I've disagreed with people but I've always taken the time to make my posts as clear as possible when expressing my views.

Now this thread has been derailed too far, too long, and so I'll just exit the thread. I stand by my criticism but this thread is about chogokin, not what I think of an anime.

Convotron wrote:With respect to Grendizer, its design influence is obvious, regardless of the background of its production. God Mazinger is part of the Mazinger franchise but its design deviates from the Mazinger "family tree" significantly because of its concept, which was supernatural rather than super robot. The same goes for Mazinsaga, which was body armour, not a super robot. Mazinger USA's design is basically a tweaked Mazinger Z design. It wouldn't make sense to include it in a post of mine where I was pointing out design evolution flow as I don't consider it necessarily a totally new Mazinger because it's Mazinger redesigned for the American market.

My point is that no evolution was intended so I don't see why we have to apply this thinking to his robots. God Mazinger was actually supposed to be Mazinger Z's sequel for example. But even when you think about the original Mazinkaiser, it didn't bring a lot of new things to the Mazinger family either. Most of his attacks were the same (except maybe for the twin blades and kaiser nova from srw), just more powerful.

Convotron wrote:Yes, I am a fan. Mazinger Z created most of those cliches and concepts.

For an example of a cliche I saw in SKL that I think was lazy and could have been easily avoided, look at the pairing of Ken and Ryo. Ken is an out of control hot blooded character. Nothing more. Ryo is the cool and collected character with a mysterious past. He loses his cool when he's reminded of something traumatic and the hot blooded counter part helps bring him back to his senses. That cliche has been done to death. I like the concept of paired pilots for Mazinkaiser SKL, but the characters are cookie cutter at best.

What would you have proposed instead? Personally, I think that was the point to make two totally opposite characters in personality.

Convotron wrote:SKL is primarily an action series...that excuses it from having a poor story? Genre doesn't excuse quality of writing. SKL doesn't have to be high art but simply saying that it's an "action story" doesn't give it an automatic pass either.

There's nothing wrong with the story. It's basic, but it works for three episodes. How can you be a Mazinger fan and yet be so foreign to the idea that people watch robot shows mainly for the action? The original Mazinkaiser OVA had a very basic plot too.

Convotron wrote:I'm judging the Mazinkaiser SKL OVA series, not additional media. Even if the manga is good, it doesn't change the criticisms I have of the OVAs. Despite being a 3 OVA series, it could have delivered much more in the story department. Certainly, it is an action packed story so less time is given for plot development but it doesn't take a dialogue filled script to make a story better. The plot was basically used as a way to link the action sequences together.

Well the problem is that the ova assumes that you're a little familiar with the manga. You can judge the OVA series, but do know that it's just an extension. The method of delivery is quite similar to past Go Nagai shows. Take Dream Dimension Hunter Fandora for example. It's three episodes too but you have no idea who the characters are or even the setting they are in. However, a novel was released along the ova for a better background. SKL is kind of similar, as it just wants to get right into the middle of things. And if it's not the manga or novel, the backstory is usually presented into the manual that the dvd came with.

Imo, you're giving SKL too much ****. You could say that Shin Mazinger was a better effort in the story, that's true but it was void of any decent action. SKL was made to fill the gap that Imagawa left behind.