The Energon Pub

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:21 pm**

As promised, here is the thread to discuss in a CONSTRUCTIVE manner how to accomodate the needs of those involved with the subfactions.

Disclaimers:

1. There is no active effort to eliminate the current subfactions.

2. I honestly want to help develop ways to increase feelings of community and competition within the site and the game. This thread will give us an open forum to discuss how.

I will be very active on this thread but if it turns into a flamewar I will lock it and we will forget about it. Please be mature in this as it could help eleviate alot of issues that have been festering for years.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:26 pm**

Getting Rid of AS as a mod would finally put DT behind us. his actions directly led to the formation of the HMWU, and alot of the animosity between the clans and the staff.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:30 pm**

Nothing wrong with sub-factions provided they don't segregate the community too much (obviously their existence will segregate it in a small way) and that those in the sub-factions can put set aside their "loyallty" for the betterment of the entire faction as well as losing the attitude that they're an integral part of HMW and that they should have some special treatment.

Jump up and down all you want, but that's the attitude that comes across from some sub-faction members.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:31 pm**

Tammuz wrote:Getting Rid of AS as a mod would finally put DT behind us. his actions directly led to the formation of the HMWU, and alot of the animosity between the clans and the staff.

Come on Tammuz #-o

I could give a long wordy answer on this but I'll just stick with 'no'.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:36 pm**

okay, how about promote either Tammuz or Soundwave to moderator as we've got more players coming in and even though Caelus has just been promoted, this forum is still heavily undermodded compared to the rest.

and we're not segregating. I do what I can to get all Decepticons to post their config data here on Seibs, as any Decepticon can go and verify.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:40 pm**

RID_reborn wrote:and we're not segregating.

So people posting exclusively on those off-site forums instead of joining the community which gives them this free game isn't segregation?

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:49 pm**

Burn wrote:
RID_reborn wrote:and we're not segregating.

So people posting exclusively on those off-site forums instead of joining the community which gives them this free game isn't segregation?

My 2 cents:

There IS a degree of seperation no matter how welcoming or open it is. This can be proven with all the infighting and bickering that has gone on between and even WITHIN the subfactions. They have promoted bitterness as much as community. We want to talk about ways to avoid that. If seibertron.com met some of the needs the subfactions provide, there would be no exclusivity arguments and internal problems could be handled in a uniform manner.

The question is, what would you like me to do to accomodate this?

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:52 pm**

Burn wrote:
RID_reborn wrote:and we're not segregating.

So people posting exclusively on those off-site forums instead of joining the community which gives them this free game isn't segregation?

they don't post exclusively. if they did the RDD wouldn't have half the reputation for spam as they do now. this is rather an amusing non-sequituer, considering AS's last "Your not welcome" locking, perhaps we would post here more if we didn't feel that our threads would be locked, no?

Omega Sentinel wrote:
Tammuz wrote:Getting Rid of AS as a mod would finally put DT behind us. his actions directly led to the formation of the HMWU, and alot of the animosity between the clans and the staff.
Come on Tammuz
I could give a long wordy answer on this but I'll just stick with 'no'.

Mods are meant to keep the peace, AS's most recent Mod action led to creation of yet another off-site board, and alot of of ranting and bitching on the RDD site(pissing off 20 odd seibs members doesn't seem like keeping the peace), in addition to his less than stellar performance in DT, and frequent absence, this leads me to the conclusion that getting rid of him is the most efficient way of dealing with the animosity between the mods and the clans

you want to put issues that have been festering for years behind us? this is my suggestion.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:02 pm**

Tammuz wrote:they don't post exclusively. if they did the RDD wouldn't have half the reputation for spam as they do now.

Good thing I was talking about both groups then wasn't I?

Point is, I see a lot of tags (more so [AWC]) in logs attached to Commanders I don't recall seeing post here on the forums.

Now I don't know if those people are posting on the sub-faction forums or not, but if they made the effort to join them and then can't even be bothered to post here, on the site that lets them play the game in the first place, well ... that to me seems to work against building the game and the community as a whole.

And when it comes to Dark Tidings, it's best to try to get as many different perspectives on it as possible, as i'm sure some people have skewed the truth to cover their own arses. Feel free to ask around and see how many different versions pop up. Because I very much agree with Tammuz's stance. Most of the stuff from DT has been dealt with, except for one or two things.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:13 pm**

the people who don't post here generally don't post on the faction forums either. When I recruit, I tell those who don't post to start posting here

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:32 pm**

RID_reborn wrote:the people who don't post here generally don't post on the faction forums either. When I recruit, I tell those who don't post to start posting here

i was gonna say the same thing. Most people in the RDD (i dunno about AWC) who dont post much here dont post much there either. I personally didnt really post much here until i was asked if i'd like ot join the RDD. Since then I have poseted a lot more on HMW GD. this is becuase i was able to get to know a smaller group of posters, who then made me feel a lot more comfortable posting in the HMW GD.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:37 pm**

Redimus wrote:
RID_reborn wrote:the people who don't post here generally don't post on the faction forums either. When I recruit, I tell those who don't post to start posting here

i was gonna say the same thing. Most people in the RDD (i dunno about AWC) who dont post much here dont post much there either. I personally didnt really post much here until i was asked if i'd like ot join the RDD. Since then I have poseted a lot more on HMW GD. this is becuase i was able to get to know a smaller group of posters, who then made me feel a lot more comfortable posting in the HMW GD.

i sencond that even tho im a big lurker if i dint know the small group i wouldnt have posted this much or been around this long

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:38 pm**

My two cents on how this could be done constructively with most of it already part of the current system. Let the factions be decided by what allegiance you choose on account creation. Autobot, Decepticon, GI JOE and all the others. It's something that's already implemented I would give a month grace period for people to choose the one they want if they want to change. Then you could do what you did with the current subfaction forums and make them only viewable to the members of that allegiance. Thought I'd give my two cents.... also with the seperate factions you could used them as faction controlled territories for V2 don't know whow viable that would be but just another idea.

Live Free or Die!!!

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:03 pm**

I'm not an RDD member but join in missions with them if I think I can help.
It was my thought that the other forum was for the sub-factions
to get together to plan and plot the mini-games.
not for complete exclusiveness. Kind of like common ground
so to speak. It would also provide any who wanted to join in the conversation there to do so, Bot or Con. Seems more like the problem is HMW doesn't want players leaving the site to discuss plans FOR HMW without having a mod to change the direction of the discussion. I hate censorship.
If the big problem is that HMW was used to promote the use of another forum, well that is part of the rules here, I thought,was to steer clear of that.
The way I see it is it is part of the game played by dissidents and rebels.
I can't see the harm in having the discussions for mini-games here though. At least players new to the game would get a feel for what the sub-factions are about. It may also give them a reason to strive to truly belong to those groups.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:20 pm**

I'm only about half-way through this, but I wanted to respond to this before I got side tracked:

Tammuz wrote:Mods are meant to keep the peace, AS's most recent Mod action led to creation of yet another off-site board, and alot of of ranting and bitching on the RDD site(pissing off 20 odd seibs members doesn't seem like keeping the peace), in addition to his less than stellar performance in DT, and frequent absence, this leads me to the conclusion that getting rid of him is the most efficient way of dealing with the animosity between the mods and the clans

Quite frankly I'm tired of seeing AS's name still being dragged through the mud for something that happened over a year ago. Crap happened then which AS may have had a part in or not, I don't know as I was unaware of everything that went on during that time. But if I see any more insults about him, I will report it to an admin as staff harassment, and the person saying it will be dealt with accordingly.

You think all of this happened because of him? You're wrong. It was all because of me. I was running out the door when I saw this thread, I didn't have time to deal with it so I IM'd AS and asked him to "take a look at this thread and deal with it". He did so. I would've probably dealt with it the same way. Now I must wonder if all of this reaction is because AS locked it, or would it have happened exactly the same way if I had locked it?

I also find it interesting how quick you are to pass the blame on to mods for the actions of non-mod members. We locked a thread. Other's took that VERY personally and acted out of anger. If you want to blame us for something, fine. Blame us for locking the thread and saying what we said. Do not go and blame us for what followed.

Tammuz, you're half right: Mods are here to keep the peace, but we're also in here to enforce board policy, which up until the past couple of weeks, was to minimize the RDD's/AWC's influence. As I have said in the past, I think we're changing our minds a on that topic.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:56 pm**

Alright as someone who can see both sides of the fence here I think I should at least give my two cents here. In the past when the RDD and AWC were formed they were formed with the best intentions. To help unite players in their respective factions. As they grew however and started to have their own sites they developed an image. An image in some cases is true. Then this whole Dark Tidings thig happens. People point fingers at someone else (some were pointed at me), and specificly a mod who in all the things back then had nothing to do with it but got blamed because he (before he was given Modship) was a founding member of the AWC. In fact though it was an act of some players that are not even on the board that did this (They will go unnamed. So when looking at DT do not just look at that one mod look to see that other players had something to do with it, and that we should not keep bringing that up everytime something happens that doesn't favor the subfactions

Now onto my thoughts of now. Do subfactions work here and now. I believe that they do not. They honestly take away something from this board. A sense of community here. Now I am sure that they have their own little communities on their sites but things should be built here. The staff have given us our own faction forums to post in if we want privacy.

Quite honestly some people have begun to think that subfactions is what keeps this game going. Well being someone who used to be a higher up in the AWC I can now tell you that they do not. What keeps this game going is the fact that people want to have fun with the Transformers. Now I know what people are going to say. Without the subfactions the game isn't fun. Well guys I have honestly played this game not being apart of the AWC for a while now and may I say that I find it fun.

In conclusion I do want to say that I was a member of the AWC for most of my playing days. So basically I can see this from the subfactions point of view. Most recently to I have been not affiliated with a subfaction. Only the Autobot faction as a whole and I can see what the staff and the others that don't really like the subfactions see. So I can see both arguements. [/u][/i]

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:58 pm**

but why lock Jesus Prime's fanfic thread when you guys allow Soundwave and Sunstar and everyone else to post their HMW fics? I saw AS as being unfair to my friend, whose thread got locked before we could even say something nice about his writing skills.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:06 pm**

.op. wrote:Then this whole Dark Tidings thig happens. People point fingers at someone else (some were pointed at me), and specificly a mod who in all the things back then had nothing to do with it but got blamed because he (before he was given Modship) was a founding member of the AWC. In fact though it was an act of some players that are not even on the board that did this (They will go unnamed. So when looking at DT do not just look at that one mod look to see that other players had something to do with it, and that we should not keep bringing that up everytime something happens that doesn't favor the subfactions

This is the sort of "truth" i've been waiting to see. The "truth" that glosses things over and makes certain Autobot Commanders look all spiffy and rosey and made of teflon so that nothing can stick to them. ;;)

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:08 pm**

Burn wrote:
.op. wrote:Then this whole Dark Tidings thig happens. People point fingers at someone else (some were pointed at me), and specificly a mod who in all the things back then had nothing to do with it but got blamed because he (before he was given Modship) was a founding member of the AWC. In fact though it was an act of some players that are not even on the board that did this (They will go unnamed. So when looking at DT do not just look at that one mod look to see that other players had something to do with it, and that we should not keep bringing that up everytime something happens that doesn't favor the subfactions

So because he's a Mod the fact that he encouraged Ghost Rider and Starlock (you know, that "honourary" member of the AWC) to do what they did, should be overlooked? Oh and let's not forget how he conveniently only ran the tournament during the hours when most 'Cons weren't around. Yeah, heaven forbid he ask for help when the 'Bots weren't around.

Mistakes were made, no doubting that. I just find it highly amusing, and also not suprising, that certain truths are simply overlooked just to preserve the "good name" of some people.

And yeah, I realise that we've been told not to discuss it, but given why and who locked a particular thread, I can see why RDD members are upset.

Personally from someone who was there I can tell you he did not endorse it. They did things through their own decision. AS had nothing to do with it.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:11 pm**

.op. wrote:Personally from someone who was there I can tell you he did not endorse it. They did things through their own decision. AS had nothing to do with it.

Personally, as someone who was also there, I damn well know he did endorse it.

Or do we also forget why Lucky was originally booted out of the AWC? ;;)

But this discussion isn't really serving any purpose is it? Everybody has their own version of the "truth" and endless discussion about it isn't going to change anything.

This is after all, about sub-factions.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:21 pm**

Seems to me if things are keep to avys, sigs and team name tags, threads in the various autobot or decepticon forums would be fine to post in for any subfaction. I would say however there should NOT be recruitment threads, as Psychout and Goribus have in their sigs, suggestions to pm them nothing more. I feel that any thread that is marked RDD should be visible to all the Decepticon players. Should we want to get together and plan it should be done in the Decepticon area anyway.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:30 pm**

Burn wrote:
.op. wrote:Personally from someone who was there I can tell you he did not endorse it. They did things through their own decision. AS had nothing to do with it.

Personally, as someone who was also there, I damn well know he did endorse it.

Or do we also forget why Lucky was originally booted out of the AWC?

But this discussion isn't really serving any purpose is it? Everybody has their own version of the "truth" and endless discussion about it isn't going to change anything.

This is after all, about sub-factions.

it's about whats best for the game.

i was there too and the starlock thing didn't bother me half as much as the times at which the missions where posted, and only one person was responsible for that

i see alot of tension, and an easy solution, it's alot easier to remove one person than many, it's not fair, and not nice, but a damn slight easier.

even if AS is entirely innocent we can't prove that, and that fact undermines his legitimacy as a mod,and some people will not respect his decisions becuase of that. and his actions will cuase further friction. which is bad, the mods need to be above reproach to work optimally

it's not just that he locked that thread it's that the message was so clear "you are not welcome" that wouldn't have gone down well even if any other mod had done it.

we also tend to forget the good things about the clans, the majority of tournies and hunts of the last year have been run by AWC/RDD members and very few have been Clan only, sure we haven't been able to cater for everyone, especially the high levels, but at least we ran them.

and of course no one remebers that it was a team of RDD who fixed the bug with repair so that intell actually fed it.

are these not welcome? do we not want more tournies, do we not want more bugs fixed?

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:38 pm**

I first say the whole thing with AS isn't meant for this thread. What happened, happened a year ago. (Frankly, I can't even remember WHAT exactly happened.) So for this thread, I say drop it.

But anyway, I think the subfactions have a place on this board just as much as anyone. So what if the DSA, RDD, and of course AWC are better organized and have 'names'. "Oooooooooo...they have names! Not a good sign!"

The subfactions don't exist to take away from the game, they were created to add something MORE to the game for players. Its just like a clan or group in any other MMO. But I guess since they weren't the 'original intent' of the creators, then they are viewed as bad?...I don't know.

However I think with from what I've heard through the grapevine about V2, teamwork--and thus clans--will be further encouraged. Now I understand Burn's POV about how there isn't a huge number of players to begin with. But really, thats not a valid argument AGAINST clans. Not like you can't belong to more than one! (There just ISN'T more than one, at least on the autobot side.) Besides, if this new version of the game requires more teamwork, I can easily see more splinter groups occuring. Let us not forget what happened in the new comics! :-B

So who's to say other subfactions, maybe named the Wreckers, United Autobot Order, or whoever, comes along when the reset occurs. They will still be here, sanctioned or not by the game. I say embrace them, make recommendations for them, and I bet the game will gain something much more than whatever is feared to be lost.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:40 pm**

All I do want to say is this, and it will be the last time. What happened in dark tidings happened over a year ago. Let it go. I will continue to stand by my statements that AS did not endorse anything that those players did, and that is the last time that will be posted by me.

Now onto the important topic of this thread. Tammuz here is the thing bud. Yes you can say that the RDD did those things to fix repair and stuff. I will not take that away from you guys. But if more about it was posted here then an answer would of been found faster because we would have the entire community of HMW to look into it. Again that was a acheivement for the RDD and all the kudos for that.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:41 pm**

Tammuz wrote:are these not welcome? do we not want more tournies, do we not want more bugs fixed?

ummm... correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't

1. There is no active effort to eliminate the current subfactions.

mean you guys aren't being kicked out?

The Energon Pub

Subfactions and Seibertron.com

Subfactions and Seibertron.com