The Energon Pub

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:04 pm**

It just occured to me... Since the Altmodes are being divided among the factions, should/are weapons being divided among the factions?

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:38 pm**

Absolute Zero wrote:It just occured to me... Since the Altmodes are being divided among the factions, should/are weapons being divided among the factions?

No, because then you'll be giving one faction the advantage. How do you decide what faction gets what? Weapons are cosmetic like alts.

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:42 pm**

if you make weapons function identically but have different names for the different factions, then yes it's a possibility.

so mecha fangs would be a maximal only weapon, but would function exactly the same as twin sowrds which is bot only, which is exactly the same as vibro axe which is con only, which is exactly the same as twin fangs which are pred only.

then it would work w/o giving any faction an advantage

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:47 pm**

sprockitz wrote:if you make weapons function identically but have different names for the different factions, then yes it's a possibility.

so mecha fangs would be a maximal only weapon, but would function exactly the same as twin sowrds which is bot only, which is exactly the same as vibro axe which is con only, which is exactly the same as twin fangs which are pred only.

then it would work w/o giving any faction an advantage

I like this idea. Every faction doesn't need its own name but I like. This is also something that could be given out as a prize. A limited number of Maximal mecha fang weapons for the Decepticons. With the mecha fang being game mechanically like the vibroax or what ever the con have in that slot.

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:55 pm**

I like that idea also.

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:57 pm**

Ooh, I wouldn't mind seeing the Maximals have a "Gut Blaster" like the big cat molds had, or maybe "Cyber Venom" for the Preds.

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:03 pm**

sprockitz wrote:if you make weapons function identically but have different names for the different factions, then yes it's a possibility.

so mecha fangs would be a maximal only weapon, but would function exactly the same as twin sowrds which is bot only, which is exactly the same as vibro axe which is con only, which is exactly the same as twin fangs which are pred only.

then it would work w/o giving any faction an advantage

That's alot better then what I was thinking, which was just go looking through the weapon lists of the characters and give them to the different factions. But then again, I don't really see how giving factions their own weapons would unbalance it anyway. The canonical weapons should be balanced enough that no faction is going to have a bigger BFG then the next. They shouldn't have to function the exact same. But there should be weapons already in the factions with comparable damage/properties.

-edit- But then again, I'd still champion weapon customization.

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:28 pm**

I dont really care about what they are called, but I like the idea of seperate weapons stockpiles for each faction.
As well as resulting in each faction having to take a more keen interest in its use of weapons. Also it might be cool if there was an ability to trade weapons between players, even if they arnt from the same factions. Say the Predacons want an allaiance with the cons, then to sweeten the deal, they could give the cons some weapon type that they have plentiful of and the cons dont have many of.

Just my 2pence.

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:31 pm**

Redimus wrote:I dont really care about what they are called, but I like the idea of seperate weapons stockpiles for each faction.
As well as resulting in each faction having to take a more keen interest in its use of weapons. Also it might be cool if there was an ability to trade weapons between players, even if they arnt from the same factions. Say the Predacons want an allaiance with the cons, then to sweeten the deal, they could give the cons some weapon type that they have plentiful of and the cons dont have many of.

Just my 2pence.

That's a good idea, but who says we'd ally with you.

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:25 pm**

This is a great idea, especially if we get the cannon weapons of our factions. Stuff like Optimus Primal's arm-mounted double barraled concussion blasters, seismic mace, twin spinal swords, or Silverbolt's feather missles, or Dinobot's eye lasers. And having the abillity to exchange/win/steal weapons occasionally would be great too, since I REALLY liked Megatron's Transmetal T-Rex tail laser/whip/blade thing. :HALUC:

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:13 pm**

Absolute Zero wrote:
Redimus wrote:I dont really care about what they are called, but I like the idea of seperate weapons stockpiles for each faction.
As well as resulting in each faction having to take a more keen interest in its use of weapons. Also it might be cool if there was an ability to trade weapons between players, even if they arnt from the same factions. Say the Predacons want an allaiance with the cons, then to sweeten the deal, they could give the cons some weapon type that they have plentiful of and the cons dont have many of.

Just my 2pence.

That's a good idea, but who says we'd ally with you.

Cause no other bugger'll have you?

Posted: **Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:23 pm**

Redimus wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:
Redimus wrote:I dont really care about what they are called, but I like the idea of seperate weapons stockpiles for each faction.
As well as resulting in each faction having to take a more keen interest in its use of weapons. Also it might be cool if there was an ability to trade weapons between players, even if they arnt from the same factions. Say the Predacons want an allaiance with the cons, then to sweeten the deal, they could give the cons some weapon type that they have plentiful of and the cons dont have many of.

Just my 2pence.

That's a good idea, but who says we'd ally with you.

Cause no other bugger'll have you?

Good point. :grin:

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:53 am**

fusion cannon isnt a bot weapon :lol:

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:25 am**

I like this idea also

Omega Sentinel wrote:I like that idea also.

Does this mean its a possibility? :-?

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:26 pm**

i don't; i see it as unnecassary complication, if they're functionally the same they should be called the same thing; i can just see the threads now i want an fusion cannon! but you can't becuase you're a bot, well what's the bot equivalent? i dunno, great

HOWEVER autobot weapons should only be found in "natural" autobot sectors, and vice versa, so you'd probably find the fusion cannons in Kaon but not anywhere else.

and the mecha fangs are a decepticon weapon, Ratbat's

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:06 pm**

Tammuz wrote:i don't; i see it as unnecassary complication, if they're functionally the same they should be called the same thing; i can just see the threads now i want an fusion cannon! but you can't becuase you're a bot, well what's the bot equivalent? i dunno, great

HOWEVER autobot weapons should only be found in "natural" autobot sectors, and vice versa, so you'd probably find the fusion cannons in Kaon but not anywhere else.

and the mecha fangs are a decepticon weapon, Ratbat's

People already whine about the alt modes, so what would be the difference about the weapons?

How would it make it a unnessicary complication? Because someone would have to sort the weapons? How long would that take really? You've been advocation weapon balancing, sorting can be done at the same time.

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:39 pm**

Absolute Zero wrote:
Tammuz wrote:i don't; i see it as unnecassary complication, if they're functionally the same they should be called the same thing; i can just see the threads now i want an fusion cannon! but you can't becuase you're a bot, well what's the bot equivalent? i dunno, great

HOWEVER autobot weapons should only be found in "natural" autobot sectors, and vice versa, so you'd probably find the fusion cannons in Kaon but not anywhere else.

and the mecha fangs are a decepticon weapon, Ratbat's

People already whine about the alt modes, so what would be the difference about the weapons?

How would it make it a unnessicary complication? Because someone would have to sort the weapons? How long would that take really? You've been advocation weapon balancing, sorting can be done at the same time.

because you'd basically be giving the same thing four names, and it's very hard to discuss a weapon if the people talking about it call it different things and don't necassarily know what the other factions equivalents are, the minimum number of weapons for a balanced game is 100, each having 4 names is 400 items, trying to keep which 3 of those 399 labels are synonomous to the one your talking about is not something easy, and will make it even harder for newbs to learn the game, and players to discuss the game.

EDIT really with 10 recharge times(HMW1 has 51 at present) we're looking at 1000 weapons, we don't need to create duplicate weapons/names, each name could be an individual weapon in it's own right!

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:53 pm**

Tammuz wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:
Tammuz wrote:i don't; i see it as unnecassary complication, if they're functionally the same they should be called the same thing; i can just see the threads now i want an fusion cannon! but you can't becuase you're a bot, well what's the bot equivalent? i dunno, great

HOWEVER autobot weapons should only be found in "natural" autobot sectors, and vice versa, so you'd probably find the fusion cannons in Kaon but not anywhere else.

and the mecha fangs are a decepticon weapon, Ratbat's

People already whine about the alt modes, so what would be the difference about the weapons?

How would it make it a unnessicary complication? Because someone would have to sort the weapons? How long would that take really? You've been advocation weapon balancing, sorting can be done at the same time.

because you'd basically be giving the same thing four names, and it's very hard to discuss a weapon if the people talking about it call it different things and don't necassarily know what the other factions equivalents are, the minimum number of weapons for a balanced game is 100, each having 4 names is 400 items, trying to keep which 3 of those 399 labels are synonomous to the one your talking about is not something easy, and will make it even harder for newbs to learn the game, and players to discuss the game.

1: They'd be by faction, so as long as someone in the faction knew anything about the weapons, it wouldn't matter. 1 player wouldn't, and shouldn't, have to know every single weapon for all four factions.

2: It's the same as the alt modes now.

3: Who says the weapons have to be the exact same? Why not equivalent? As long as each faction has a weapon that does about the same damage with if not the same secondary ability, something as useful, then the weapons will balance. Every faction is going to have a sword and a gun, that's a given, but not everyone should have PPGs, or Null Ray, or Ion Rifle.

I think you're looking at it as being overly complicated, when it's not. It's really pretty simple.

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:12 pm**

i think you have a massively over simplfied view of this.

1. i'd like to be able to discuss weapons across the factions; i don't want to be restricted to just advising the decepticon players, and every person who does the weapons for the game will need to know what their called so that if something needs to be fixed they don't end up JUST fixing one faction's weapon

2. Mkall's already had an ear bashing from me regarding the problems with the alt modes

3. why not? if someone has written a maximal that uses an ion rifle why should the game NEVER allow them to get it, the more choice the better, sure limit it but if the maximals take over a territory that has an ion rifle as a resource why do they have to take the maximal equivalent name

seiriously why should we destroy 75% of our character variety? why have 1 weapon called the ion rifle, Particle projection cannon, taser, and tesler coil? why not have ALL 4 as different weapons and make them sector dependant so you can get all 4 if you want BUT you need to acheive some serious **** in the game.

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:58 pm**

Tammuz wrote:i think you have a massively over simplfied view of this.

1. i'd like to be able to discuss weapons across the factions; i don't want to be restricted to just advising the decepticon players, and every person who does the weapons for the game will need to know what their called so that if something needs to be fixed they don't end up JUST fixing one faction's weapon

2. Mkall's already had an ear bashing from me regarding the problems with the alt modes

3. why not? if someone has written a maximal that uses an ion rifle why should the game NEVER allow them to get it, the more choice the better, sure limit it but if the maximals take over a territory that has an ion rifle as a resource why do they have to take the maximal equivalent name

seiriously why should we destroy 75% of our character variety? why have 1 weapon called the ion rifle, Particle projection cannon, taser, and tesler coil? why not have ALL 4 as different weapons and make them sector dependant so you can get all 4 if you want BUT you need to acheive some serious **** in the game.

... First off I think the current alt. mode setup is great. Second, not everyone is obssesed with analysing every little detail of this game. Some people build for concept, or build a team that fits their play style. I for instance use a variety of builds and weapons that a lot of min/maxers here would ridicule, but they work just fine for me. You should not assume that everyone else is calculating every last detail of their bots before sending them off to mine XP.

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:27 pm**

Knives wrote:
Tammuz wrote:i think you have a massively over simplfied view of this.

1. i'd like to be able to discuss weapons across the factions; i don't want to be restricted to just advising the decepticon players, and every person who does the weapons for the game will need to know what their called so that if something needs to be fixed they don't end up JUST fixing one faction's weapon

2. Mkall's already had an ear bashing from me regarding the problems with the alt modes

3. why not? if someone has written a maximal that uses an ion rifle why should the game NEVER allow them to get it, the more choice the better, sure limit it but if the maximals take over a territory that has an ion rifle as a resource why do they have to take the maximal equivalent name

seiriously why should we destroy 75% of our character variety? why have 1 weapon called the ion rifle, Particle projection cannon, taser, and tesler coil? why not have ALL 4 as different weapons and make them sector dependant so you can get all 4 if you want BUT you need to acheive some serious **** in the game.

... First off I think the current alt. mode setup is great. Second, not everyone is obssesed with analysing every little detail of this game. Some people build for concept, or build a team that fits their play style. I for instance use a variety of builds and weapons that a lot of min/maxers here would ridicule, but they work just fine for me. You should not assume that everyone else is calculating every last detail of their bots before sending them off to mine XP.

i fail to see what this has to do with weapons having different names for different factions?

i don't assume everyone else is calculating for their bots, i assume the very opposit;, that most of them lack the maths to do so, AND thus will beleive alot of silly **** like weapons having different accuaracies, bot strafe being more powerful than con strafe, the lion alt's ram having a higher stun factor, the rocket launcher being a decent weapon. it's called observer bias

the problem with the alt modes is that the majority of tactics feed of similiar stats, namely firepower strength and speed, so alt modes that have single stats feeding more than 1 of their tactics don't need as many upgrades to produce similiar strength tactics.

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:54 pm**

It has everything to do with weapons. Far too often I see people not only hording the FotM weapons, but building their entire bot around said weapon. A very common min/max build has 3FRP/2SKL to equip the ever broken battle blades, and then pours all remaining XP into speed and courage to take advantage of the current tech spec. imbalance.

But that will all change with V2.0. With the weapons balanced a person can take a look at the weapon spec.s in the armoury(Or whatever system is in place then.) and decide on a weapon without fear of 'gimping' themselves. The only real important difference when V2.0 launches as far as weapons are concerned is purely asthetic. And names are the biggest part of that aspect.

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:03 pm**

Knives wrote:It has everything to do with weapons. Far too often I see people not only hording the FotM weapons, but building their entire bot around said weapon. A very common min/max build has 3FRP/2SKL to equip the ever broken battle blades, and then pours all remaining XP into speed and courage to take advantage of the current tech spec. imbalance.

But that will all change with V2.0. With the weapons balanced a person can take a look at the weapon spec.s in the armoury(Or whatever system is in place then.) and decide on a weapon without fear of 'gimping' themselves. The only real important difference when V2.0 launches as far as weapons are concerned is purely asthetic. And names are the biggest part of that aspect.

ok....but i ask again, why restrict maximals to maximal weapons and cons to con weapons, or have duplicate weapons so in megatron's hands it's a fusion cannon but in prime's its a laser rifle when there is quite enougth room within the game to make 1000 different weapons?

if people WANT to write a character that uses battle blades(a maximal weapon) and isn't a maximal why make them choke out the RPing?

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:10 pm**

I am not saying that they can not have them. I am just saying that some weapon variety between the factions would be great. If they really want that cross-faction weapon then they could get it by helping take and hold a certain territory, or completing a certain mission. Heck a trade system between players of allied factions would be a great idea too. :-?

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:17 pm**

Knives wrote: If they really want that cross-faction weapon then they could get it by helping take and hold a certain territory

didn't i say something very similiar to that in my first responce? something about Fusion Cannons being a Kaon resource?

i'd rather all weapons/minicons/armour came from campaigns than missions otherwise the most numerous factions *coughbotscough* will just acquire all of there resources from missions and the campaigns won't play a really big part in the game(and v2 is about the map!)

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