The Energon Pub

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:28 am**

Inspired by the repair repair thread, I came up with this:

A chart that lists the (currently perceived) effects of each stat on combat:

Code: Select all: Stat Attack Defense Tactic Str + damage + armor + ram Int + repair Spd + recharge + dodge + avoid End - damage + repair effect Rnk + armor Cou + attacks FP + damage + strafe Skl + damage

Some thoughts:
3 stats only give 1 bonus, and one of those 3 stats only affect a "minor" tactic (minor because, as of this writing, it is believed that repair still has a stat/30 chance of firing while ram/strafe have a stat/20 chance of firing), while 2 stats give "up to" 3 bonuses, if the TF uses the appropriate stat, and 2 bonuses to every TF.

Perhaps moving a couple of bonuses (simply changing the variable it checks against in the code) would bring better balance to the game, as those changes would not make the 3 bonus stats as powerful as they are now...

My personal thoughts as to what bonuses to move:

First off, I'd like to see a stat only have one "regular" combat effect and one "logical" tactic effect.

To me, Str and Speed are "overpowered", because they affect both your regular offense (either more damage per attack or more frequent attacks), regular defense (more armor for damage reduction or more avoided attacks) and possibly a tactic (Ram and Avoid)

No other feeder stat affects both "regular" offense and defense. Meanwhile one stat (intel) doesn't affect "regular" combat in the least...

So, the first (logical?) thought is to make Intel affect "regular" combat, while toning down one of the 2 "uber" stats. The most logical change, to me, is moving dodge rate from Speed to Intel. The rationale I use is this: In the world of TFs, many attacks are extremely fast (such as nigh-light speed energy weapons, high-mach with large blast radii rockets, non-visible spew weapons or magic spells, massive gas clouds, etc), and being smart enough to recognize the attack coming and not being near ground zero might be more effective than having ultra-split-second reflexes and extremely fast movement rates necessary to avoid these effects at the last microsecond in some cases...

Sadly, I cannot really envision a second logical move, other than taking the armor worn total away from strength and moving it to endurance. Taking an example from D&D, even a strength 10 Character can wear Full Plate, but having the ability to be active in that much weight for extended periods (make all those fatigue saves from encumbrance) requires a high Con (Endurance)...

More thoughts?

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:03 am**

Nice idea, but Int just doesnt work as a stat relevant to dodging, no matter what the rationalle is.

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:16 pm**

Skill could feed dodging...
And Courage feed ram tactics.
That makes Str and Spd feed just 2 effects each. Sadly, it doesn't make Int more useful...

What if Int would make tactics be used more often? At least, that's sensible enough.

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:32 pm**

Glyph is planning on moving accuracy from Speed to Skill in 2.0. Dodging belongs with Speed, as it makes sense that being fast helps you be a harder target.

The best suggestion I've seen for Intelligence was to institute some kind of critical hit system and have it affected by Intelligence.

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:03 pm**

Deadboy wrote:The best suggestion I've seen for Intelligence was to institute some kind of critical hit system and have it affected by Intelligence.

QFT.

That would work very nicely.

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 pm**

I think if Glyph implemented the proposed 'int makes your guy hit the huy who'll give you the most xp' thing, then int'll be worth having. Seeing as it was something that was *suposed* to implemented eventully anyway...

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:51 pm**

since when did speed affect recharge? and you also make no mention about strafe self powering, and i' fairly sure repair happens just as often as any other tactic(excluding times when you've nobody to repair).

i'm against intell making tactics occur more often as thats not always a good thing, and it'll almost always be cheaper to upgrade the tactic than upgrade intell.

i suggest the opposite approach, rather than try to balance the stats so each has an equal role, weight the cost of each stat to reflect the number and magnitudes of it's effect; strength is has 3 roles while int has just one? make str three times the cost of int.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:01 pm**

int = hit the weakest for KO, wouldnt be good in missions?

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:25 pm**

I would like intel to increase the odds of attacking the last Bot you attacked. It would hopefully take one down a little faster and make a more realistic fight scene.
I also think intel should give a small modifier to all stats with a cumulative effect.
A smarter computerized brain could effectively make a Transformer dodge better, lock on target easier increasing hit %. The only stats that maybe do not apply would be endurance and strength. Even ramming could be helped as the intel would spot a less armored/fortified portion of the opponent.
I like intel feeding repair, but I think it's vastly undercut in possible uses.
Wisdom and knowledge make a better warrior.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:27 pm**

skyhammer wrote:int = hit the weakest for KO, wouldnt be good in missions?

No... not at all.

What you want int to do is select the STRONGEST target, the biggest threat, the quicker you take that guy down, the easier it'll be to take the rest down. Thats part of what Int was always suposed to do. I hope oneday that int actully does do that.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:40 am**

DISCHARGE wrote:I would like intel to increase the odds of attacking the last Bot you attacked. It would hopefully take one down a little faster and make a more realistic fight scene.

That's actually something I'm working into the V2 engine, not as an effect of INT but as a general feature of combat - TFs will generally keep attacking the same target unless they have a good reason to switch to another. If anything, INT would increase your chances of breaking off and switching to a better target, rather than getting bogged down in a fight you don't want to be in. I think it'll make for much more interesting battle logs - rather than randomly spraying attacks around the field, your characters will actually get into one-on-one fights that last until one of you goes down or someone else makes themselves a higher-priority target.

DISCHARGE wrote:I also think intel should give a small modifier to all stats with a cumulative effect. [...] Wisdom and knowledge make a better warrior.

I'd rather not have INT boosting all your other attributes, because then it'll become the must-have killer stat that does everything. Instead, my general philosophy for the V2 combat engine is "Smart bots make better choices" - that is, they pick their targets more effectively, choose when to fight and when to go after the mission objective, and so on.

For example, I'm also working on some kind of range / position system so bots know where they are relative to each other, which is a lot harder than it sounds. Primarily, I want there to be an actual distinction between melee and ranged combat, and for bots to be able to choose which style they'd rather be in. A melee bot would want to charge in as fast as possible against a ranged bot, in order to deny it the chance to wear the melee bot down with fire, while the ranged bot would be trying to keep the melee bot out of close combat but in weapon range. (It may not eventually come to be, depending on whether I can find a way to do it that doesn't kill the server with constant pathfinding calculations, but even if it doesn't I'll have to find a way to represent melee vs ranged combat.) That's the kind of system where INT can come into play - having the bot choose, based on its own abilities and what it knows of the target, who to attack and what kind of attack to put against them. Choose well, and you get better XP and help your side to win; choose badly or leave it to random allocation, and you may get slaughtered.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:36 am**

Glyph wrote:
DISCHARGE wrote:I would like intel to increase the odds of attacking the last Bot you attacked. It would hopefully take one down a little faster and make a more realistic fight scene.

That's actually something I'm working into the V2 engine, not as an effect of INT but as a general feature of combat - TFs will generally keep attacking the same target unless they have a good reason to switch to another. If anything, INT would increase your chances of breaking off and switching to a better target, rather than getting bogged down in a fight you don't want to be in. I think it'll make for much more interesting battle logs - rather than randomly spraying attacks around the field, your characters will actually get into one-on-one fights that last until one of you goes down or someone else makes themselves a higher-priority target.

DISCHARGE wrote:I also think intel should give a small modifier to all stats with a cumulative effect. [...] Wisdom and knowledge make a better warrior.

I'd rather not have INT boosting all your other attributes, because then it'll become the must-have killer stat that does everything. Instead, my general philosophy for the V2 combat engine is "Smart bots make better choices" - that is, they pick their targets more effectively, choose when to fight and when to go after the mission objective, and so on.

For example, I'm also working on some kind of range / position system so bots know where they are relative to each other, which is a lot harder than it sounds. Primarily, I want there to be an actual distinction between melee and ranged combat, and for bots to be able to choose which style they'd rather be in. A melee bot would want to charge in as fast as possible against a ranged bot, in order to deny it the chance to wear the melee bot down with fire, while the ranged bot would be trying to keep the melee bot out of close combat but in weapon range. (It may not eventually come to be, depending on whether I can find a way to do it that doesn't kill the server with constant pathfinding calculations, but even if it doesn't I'll have to find a way to represent melee vs ranged combat.) That's the kind of system where INT can come into play - having the bot choose, based on its own abilities and what it knows of the target, who to attack and what kind of attack to put against them. Choose well, and you get better XP and help your side to win; choose badly or leave it to random allocation, and you may get slaughtered.

I am really excited to see V2 come around, It's gonna be Great!

Sounds like you have your hands full Glyph but I definently like the direction your going

The Energon Pub

Feeder stats and balance thoughts

Feeder stats and balance thoughts