The Energon Pub

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 1:31 pm**

So we've already heard from the head guy, OS, himself how the payouts are gonna be in V2.

The question that comes to my mind is that of size of payouts on V2. It took almost 2 years of tweaking to get somewhat of a desired effect on the previous programmer's part for the payouts. So is V2 gonna be another 2 years of tweaking, twiddling, and waiting to finally get decent payouts? Or is that all part of the master plan to drag V2 out as long as possible much to the demise of the beloved V1?

I understand the concept of change, quite well. I just think that the drastic changes to the Arena payouts will immediately shun most players. I'm not really doing it, but a majority of players use the Arena because it's quicker. It's a definite time set up for the battle. When it comes to Missions, you're looking at roughly 40 minutes to fill the mission, 20 to battle in it, and potentially healing for another 60 minutes.

Now, according to the word on the street, the Arena would be strictly for Energon gain and Missions purely for Experience gain. Under this system, waiting approximately 2 hours for another chance to enter a Mission isn't very optimistic. Especially since all are at Level 0 and basically we have a huge mass of individuals clawing and biting and taking everything from everyone else. While I'm sure this is part of the whole "survivial of the fittest" aspect of H-M-Dub, I see this as a hassle and a hazard.

My suggestion --please note, "suggestion"-- is to make XP gaining available to those that are Level 0 and ONLY Level 0 in the Arena. If the stats are NOT going to be a deciding factor of one's level, this would be easy to accomplish and implement. Once a player has amassed the required XP for Level 1, the system automatically acknowledges this and makes all of his Arena earnings STRICTLY Energon based.

What do you all think?

Word.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 2:15 pm**

Missions aren't going to pay out energon? Where did you hear this?

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 2:34 pm**

lkavadas wrote:Missions aren't going to pay out energon? Where did you hear this?

Missions are going to pay out energon.

The only thing changing is the arena not paying out xp.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 4:34 pm**

QuietStorm wrote:When it comes to Missions, you're looking at roughly 40 minutes to fill the mission, 20 to battle in it, and potentially healing for another 60 minutes.

And you could also sit in the arena for two hours before being kicked out of the wait line and left with no energon or xp.

I had a simpler idea to help boost xp gain.

Reduce cr chamber to 30 mins for level 0 then increase it 5 mins per each level and cap it at one hour at level 6.

The reduced time will increase turn around giving you more chances to get your bots out there.

Downside is those who can play regulary will further ahead than others. But no one's really liked the idea of limiting a person to how much they can play a day so ...

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 4:37 pm**

lkavadas wrote:Missions aren't going to pay out energon? Where did you hear this?

Sorry, I mistyped that. Regardless of the fact, I'm still leary of discussing things with you after the last time.

And I'm certain that my suggestion will continue to go unnoticed. Which stinks, because I think it's absolutely STUPID to wait 2 hours to run another group of Troops in the Missions because that's what's been deemed the only way to get experience. This can be made enjoyable by everyone, instead of the people that can dedicate their entire existence to the game. Just think about it, is all.

And before anyone else jumps in about the 2 hour wait--please think. There's been no guarantee that we will get all of our Transformers ported over to V2. No one has come out said definitely yes or definitely no. So with that yet to happen, one has to speculate that one will only have enough Energon at the beginning to create one or two Transformers. After all, that's how things started out with V1--only enough Energon to create a few TFs. I don't know about you, but I currently have a full roster of 12 Transformers. With only Energon enough to create a few, I won't be able to retain my full roster of the Transformers that I've created. Thus not having that full roster, means I'll be waiting approximately 2 hours to play.

There, so long story long....

EDIT:

Burn wrote:
QuietStorm wrote:
When it comes to Missions, you're looking at roughly 40 minutes to fill the mission, 20 to battle in it, and potentially healing for another 60 minutes.

And you could also sit in the arena for two hours before being kicked out of the wait line and left with no energon or xp.

I had a simpler idea to help boost xp gain.

Reduce cr chamber to 30 mins for level 0 then increase it 5 mins per each level and cap it at one hour at level 6.

The reduced time will increase turn around giving you more chances to get your bots out there.

Downside is those who can play regulary will further ahead than others. But no one's really liked the idea of limiting a person to how much they can play a day so ...

Now that is a constructive comment towards the subject of the post. Great job.

I agree, I think that shortening the CR time would be the best bet. But like you also pointed out, those that play more get ahead faster. But that's how this game has always been. Why change it now? In fact, that's how ALL games are. If I want to play Hockey better, I need to be playing Hockey more. This no different.

Word.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 5:04 pm**

Or you could use superior tactical mechanics

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 5:16 pm**

QuietStorm wrote:In fact, that's how ALL games are. If I want to play Hockey better, I need to be playing Hockey more. This no different.

Word.

ahhhh but if you look at other free online multiplayer games a lot of them (Mech-G, Bots for example) have a system in place where you can only play so much each day.

Difference there though is you can fight whoever you want and you're not divided into two factions.

Plus people have that idea for some reason.

Frankly though I think it'd be good for the game as it would drive people to play smarter rather than more often.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 5:42 pm**

Burn wrote:
QuietStorm wrote:In fact, that's how ALL games are. If I want to play Hockey better, I need to be playing Hockey more. This no different.

Word.

ahhhh but if you look at other free online multiplayer games a lot of them (Mech-G, Bots for example) have a system in place where you can only play so much each day.

Difference there though is you can fight whoever you want and you're not divided into two factions.

Plus people have that idea for some reason.

Frankly though I think it'd be good for the game as it would drive people to play smarter rather than more often.

True, however, I still consider myself to be more of a casual player as opposed to a professional player of H-M-Dub. The fact of the matter is that I throw whomever is available into whichever Mission is available at the time because my playing IS so sporadic.

So because I can't play "professionally" per se, I should be punished and have to sit out?

And frankly, I'm still perturbed at the fact that we've yet to received a definite yes or a definite no in regards to the porting over of our characters.

Word.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 6:03 pm**

QuietStorm wrote:
lkavadas wrote:Missions aren't going to pay out energon? Where did you hear this?

Sorry, I mistyped that. Regardless of the fact, I'm still leary of discussing things with you after the last time.

This entire thread is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Your assumptions are based entirely off things you don't know and OS has never really commented on.

How much of a departure do you think the new territorial stuff is going to be? It's still going to be the same as tossing a TF into a mission. It's just that the mission is going to have an effect faction wide and not take place in a vacuum.

You people have some really strange ideas about HMW2. Why not let the game come out so we actually know what we're talking about and assess the situation then? It's ridiculous to start tweaking a game before you even have a build to play. At this point only OS and whomever he decides to share info with no dick about the new version so people should quit whining about something they no little to nothing about.

Revising the game can be easily done once we have a working version to beta test which is pretty much going to be the first three months of the next version. This nit picking before any of us have seen, let alone played, a releasable build is a complete waste of time.

As for the arena, you made a post in the arena thread that Burn started about removing it and your only comments were about expressing your enthusiasm for the pit and then to comment on your personal neutrality for the removal though you made a point to comment on how it could alienate players. Your reasoning behind this was because missions are somehow more difficult than the arena.

Yeah, missions are more difficult than the arena? A child could figure out how to work the current mission system. The only three things you need to know about missions is your level, the level of the mission, and a quick guesstimate of whether or not your faction is going to fill it up.

Don't forget that the difficulty between missions and the arena is a single mouse click.

Really, people need to lay off and just let the version come. These threads that have been cropping up with people moaning and whining about something they don't understand and know nothing about need to stop. Just relax people.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 6:33 pm**

I think i agree with Ikavadas. I might have been more polite, but the general gist would have been the same if i had got here first

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:11 pm**

lkavadas wrote:A lot of hooey.

Who are you? I don't think I've ever seen ANY of your characters EVER. Regardless, of that fact, I think you should re-read what you've typed and take your own advice. You harped and whined and cried just as much as I or anyone else has for that matter. Just for the opposing side of the discussion.

The only thing that I have to go off of is the previous edition of the game. It was a long time ago, but I remember it quite well. Working my way up to level 1 from zero. Trudging along to 2 from 1, and so on and on.

If you read what I've put, I've made a suggestion that the Arena allow XP gains until a character reaches Level 1. How hard is that to accept? How difficult is that for you to comprehend without immediately jumping to the opposing side strictly for the sake of verbally battling me?

So again, I ask, who are you? And just what have I done to incite your wrath? Is it because I wanted my "precious little gif" images as you so eloquently put it last time? Have I dismissed you prior when you possibly had a different handle?

Like I said before, I'm skeptical discussing with you because you have a frequent habit of coming after my comments and thoughts but you motives for doing so remain unknown. I'd be foolish to continue discussions with you because frankly, I don't know whether you'll handle it appropriately and constructively or fly off the handle like you did last time. One minute you're against something, the next your against the individuals that asked for it, and then the next you're butting heads with the powers that be over it.

So I ask you, who are you? And what's your whole goal in this? Is it to simply disagree with me and argue over the internet for fun and giggles?

Regardless, OS is gonna do what he and S-Tron decide is best. I just made a suggestion. Which you're entitled to disagree about. Novel aside, I suppose.

Word.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:12 pm**

QuietStorm wrote:So because I can't play "professionally" per se, I should be punished and have to sit out?

Actually QS, IF a playing limit were implemented it would benefit the "casual" player such as yourself as the "professionals" would only be able to play so much which would bring them down to the level of a "casual" player.

But no one's really liked that idea. Goddamn addicts around here.

Ikavadas wrote:Revising the game can be easily done once we have a working version to beta test which is pretty much going to be the first three months of the next version. This nit picking before any of us have seen, let alone played, a releasable build is a complete waste of time.

...

Really, people need to lay off and just let the version come. These threads that have been cropping up with people moaning and whining about something they don't understand and know nothing about need to stop. Just relax people.

Actually I think we need more of these threads so that OS can see our concerns and address them BEFORE the new version is rolled out.

I'm of the mindset that if we're going to lose 4 years of data that it should be something good. Not something that is essentially what we have now + balanced weapons + a map of cybertron + one or two other things.

And considering THIS version has been labelled a "beta" version I really don't want to go through another three months of "testing", ironing out bugs and running the risk of it being so badly buggy that three months down the track things need to be reset again.

So yeah, let the threads go, let people express their concerns, let's get the ideas out there and ironed out so things can be rolled out as smoothly as possible.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:14 pm**

I don't. One of the things that needs to happen in an attempt to hold on to "veterain" players is the release of information.

We all have a right to speculate on the future of this game. Some of us have invested a lot of time in this place so we are naturally curious.

Have some faith in OS and those on the support staff that they will let us in on the juicy details as they become availible. But not all of them!!! We still need the element of Suprise!!!

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:15 pm**

Burn wrote:
QuietStorm wrote:So because I can't play "professionally" per se, I should be punished and have to sit out?

Actually QS, IF a playing limit were implemented it would benefit the "casual" player such as yourself as the "professionals" would only be able to play so much which would bring them down to the level of a "casual" player.

But no one's really liked that idea. Goddamn addicts around here.

I can understand how those who cant put as many hours in feel left behind, but I cant understand how limiting those who can put the hours in is in anyway fair.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:23 pm**

Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:I can understand how those who cant put as many hours in feel left behind, but I cant understand how limiting those who can put the hours in is in anyway fair.

Of course you don't. You have plenty of hours to invest so it wouldn't be fair to you. Correct? ;;)

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:26 pm**

My point is this, QuietStorm:

What intimate knowledge of HMW2 do you possess which allows you to accurately make the judgement that an XP free arena will be a detriment?

Secondly, I've disagreed with you on two things in this history of this forum. You can quit playing the emo card. I've disagreed with Burn at almost every single turn yet we still respond to each other perfectly amicably. Maybe you just take this forum too personally or something.

Lastly, as for my existence in HMW click on my sig.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:53 pm**

Burn wrote:
Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:I can understand how those who cant put as many hours in feel left behind, but I cant understand how limiting those who can put the hours in is in anyway fair.

Of course you don't. You have plenty of hours to invest so it wouldn't be fair to you. Correct?

Ouch! QFT

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:59 pm**

Burn wrote:
Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:I can understand how those who cant put as many hours in feel left behind, but I cant understand how limiting those who can put the hours in is in anyway fair.

Of course you don't. You have plenty of hours to invest so it wouldn't be fair to you. Correct?

In a nutshell, yes.

I could do any number of other things, but I chose to try and make my hmw team as good as I can. So why should I be forced not play as much, just cuase others cant?

You get out what you put in.

I think that's the fairest way forward.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 8:13 pm**

I agree that a "cap" on how much you can play could be unfair to all. Even the "casual" player might get some more time than usual to play for whatever reason and they would be limited. So it could be unfair to all in a way,and I used to be a casual player and was never in the state of mind that people who could play more was unfair in anyway.

Just my .02 cents

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 8:18 pm**

Traks wrote:I agree that a "cap" on how much you can play could be unfair to all. Even the "casual" player might get some more time than usual to play for whatever reason and they would be limited. So it could be unfair to all in a way,and I used to be a casual player and was never in the state of mind that people who could play more was unfair in anyway.

Just my .02 cents

One way to get around that is to 'roll over' the time permitted for each day, similar to those '20000 Free Text Messages per month!!!11' phone network deals you get these days. Basically, If you only play a couple of times during the week, you can make it up at the weekend or on a day off, that kinda thing...

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 8:55 pm**

Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:
Burn wrote:
Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:I can understand how those who cant put as many hours in feel left behind, but I cant understand how limiting those who can put the hours in is in anyway fair.

Of course you don't. You have plenty of hours to invest so it wouldn't be fair to you. Correct?

In a nutshell, yes.

I could do any number of other things, but I chose to try and make my hmw team as good as I can. So why should I be forced not play as much, just cuase others cant?

You get out what you put in.

I think that's the fairest way forward.

All good points and I feel the same way.

But i'm trying to look at the bigger picture which will allow the casual player to be able to take a crack at the top 25.

Though I do know to implement it would be highly impractical, but hey ... always good to throw ideas around that could benefit the game and not just myself. ;;)

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 9:18 pm**

I am sort of to agree with redimus. I may not play much but that is my choice. if others want to they should be permitte dto put in am much time as they want. If that means they don't do anything else with their time, so be it and if they multi-task well, then even better.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 10:06 pm**

I'm NOT saying a cap is good. I'm saying that a shorter CR time is good. Screw those other games, I play H-M-Dub. Period. That's it, that's all the time I've got for online gaming. This was never about cutting those that play "professionally" down to the caliber of those that play "casually." It's about making it just as easy for individuals to simply and casually throw their guys in as it is for the individual that has the H-M-Dub window open every minute of their workday, school day, home, etc. And I think that by making the Arena give out XP until someone earns Level 1 is a good way to do that, just like I think that shorter CR times would do so as well.

Ikademus or whatever, I'm just gonna ignore you. You do nothing but bastardize the minor "suggestions" that I make. Belittling them down to mere "emo" kid whinyness, so forget you.

Word.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 11:43 pm**

QuietStorm wrote:And I think that by making the Arena give out XP until someone earns Level 1 is a good way to do that

One potential problem.

If this is going to be about control of Cybertron, the factions are going to be battling for control from the very beginning.

So it would be best to have as many bots in missions as possible. Having the arena generating xp for any level will just have bots going there and we'll have the whole bitching about arena dwellers thing again combined with the "we're losing valuable ground because of those arena dwellers" thing.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 12:03 am**

Burn wrote:
QuietStorm wrote:And I think that by making the Arena give out XP until someone earns Level 1 is a good way to do that

One potential problem.

If this is going to be about control of Cybertron, the factions are going to be battling for control from the very beginning.

So it would be best to have as many bots in missions as possible. Having the arena generating xp for any level will just have bots going there and we'll have the whole bitching about arena dwellers thing again combined with the "we're losing valuable ground because of those arena dwellers" thing.

In the beginning of V2, everyone will be starting from scratch. So...if they can gain precious XP by doing everything possible and available to them as a Level 0 except for CR Chamber time, why not?

To me this seems fairly simple and easy to deal with. You keep the Arena the way it is--if it ain't broke, don't fix it, ya know? You keep the Missions the way they are (see above). Then you make the new Pit Fighting feature the object that only gains Energon, and that Energon would be gained soley on what you're willing to bet on that fight. To me, from where I stand, in my perspective the Arena doesn't need a revamp. And since we're all starting out at ground zero with no XP, giving players more than just ONE source to gain XP is fair. This new Pit Fighting feature screams to me of abuse if the rumors of it that I'm hearing are true (betting XP and/or Energon on the fights.) To eliminate the usage of the Arena in place of that seems like a monstrous headache waiting to happen. You thought that Level Bullies, Macros, and the like caused a rift between players at the beginning of V1? Wait until you see the results of abuse from the Pit Fighting. And what's to stop someone from amassing debt of XP that is much like the Energon debt that was created by the Battle Beasts gambling?

See my point. While the new features sound fun and exciting, the chance for abuse is too glaring. I stand by the thought of if it's not broke, don't fix it. The Arena stays the way it is, Missions stay the way they are (keep Mission payouts much much much higher than Arena payouts), and then apply the new gambling of Energon only to the new Pit Fighting feature. Again, these are just suggestions.

I'm still waiting for the guarantee that ALL of a Player's characters will be ported over to V2.

Word.

The Energon Pub

Payouts for V2

Payouts for V2

Re: Payouts for V2