The Energon Pub

This is spinning out of the Battle Tanker discussion and it's an interesting point. This has nothing to do with KOs of Hasbro or Takara TFs, which is a whole other thing IMHO (Hasbro/Takara isn't "the little guy").

So, Maketoy is a fairly new company and hasn't had many releases under it's belt. Battle Tanker, it's first release, hasn't sold out everywhere and it still seems to be on it's first run (with the Drift sword). Already there's a KO of Battle Tanker. For me this brings up an interesting point of who you'll support.

So who has your loyalty here? (Battle Tanker is only the latest 3rd party KO, but there's others. FP's City Commander trailer, the God Sword, Jaizitoy's stuff, CrazyDevy, and the Targetroids have all been KOed).

Is your loyalty to the 3rd party guy who first made the toy? Or are you more of a "smart shopper" who wants to save money by buying the cheaper product if it, at least, looks acceptable in a display.

If you support KO 3rd party items, is there a line where you'll support a legit release?

Personally, I tend to support the legit released 3rd party products over KOs. I want to see more from 3rd party companies overall and this is only achieved by supporting them. And I want quality items in my collection ... I despise the too tight/too loose joints and badly fitting pieces typical in KOs.

But I have to admit, some things would be tempting. By now CC is VERY expensive to buy. The armor's worth the original price of $80 ... but $200 was too much to ask (and I decided this when the TFcon exclusive Dia Commander was released). If I didn't have CC the KO wou;d be VERY tempting.

So where does your loyalty lie? And, if you support 3rd party KOs, what's your rationale?

I follow my standard of if it's a straight KO of an original item (be it Hasbro or 3rd party) I will get the original item instead. The only exception to this on my shelves is the KO Dinocassettes.

I will however get good KOs of original molds if the colours are different than the original and representations of existing characters I don't have and are represented in toy, literature or cartoon form. So far this has only been of Hasbro figures (CHMS Seekers) but I'm not sure what will happen is CHMS does a Shattered Glass Devastator before TFC/MakeToys does, or something similar.

In terms of Hasbro vs 3rd Party figures, I will usually support Hasbro if there is a conflict on a figure, for example I still have Takara's Universe Powerglide and Seaspray instead of the recent minibots produced by the 3rd parties. There are of course exceptions, such as the upcoming Brawn and Cosmos, who until know are only represented by Hasbro Legends figures, which I want gone from my shelf.

My basic strategy is to support the original developers of a figure. Money isn't much of an obsticle for me at this time, so I'm going to send to to the original developers instead of copycats whenever possible.

guys why are you writting an essays worth of writting?

look this is the simple way to explain it

do i like 3rd party companies? yes - do i like 3rd party company prices? no....not really...there just a tad to high

simple fact is if someone comes along and makes a ko of a 3rd party item whats roughly the same quality but half the price of the original.....yeah no brainer here

take FP warbot defender for example, i paid £80 for this piece of crap and cant stand him. I cant get my money back on this guy (trust me ive tried) but if a ko company like chms came along and made him and sold him for £30 then i wouldnt really give a crap

If the kos can keep a decent quality and no seem crappy then its ko versions all the way

everyone here wants to own TFCC devastator....hes over £350 tho....thats alot for a guy whos gona sit on a shelf. if a ko company wants to come along and copy it and sell the figures for 30 each then im all for that

I support Hasbro/Takara when they have something to support. In the past six months, they have only put out two Deluxes which I wanted (Junkheap and Black Shadow) so that's all that I've bought from them since DOTM pushes all the good toys out of stores and into Ross.

I support 3rd Parties only when the product is 1) worth the price and 2) fills a gap in my Classics collection. Fansproject's City Commander and Protector and the other do that. Maketoy's Giant is a G1 Devastator that fits in with Superion and Bruticus, iGear's Huffer and Seaspray actually made me replace my Classics Bumblebee with the Legends G1 and put up the other Legends and Bayverse small Powerglide (of course that'll all change again since their next ones will be larger).

I don't really support KO's of 3rd Party products, not really. I'm a customizer (as I have never bashed a kit in my life) and when I want to make something, I look for the cheapest materials to do it with. I used to spend through the nose for a, say, particular Energon figure because I wanted his shoulders and nothing else. I had the money to do that back then, now not so much. I want to make a RiD Scourge from the Tanker set but I can even afford a Tanker to use as a Tanker right now, let alone an extra to paint black and teal. So I ordered the KO as a resource. It will not be on my G2 shelf as my Laser Optimus Prime, it'll be on my planned RiD shelf and maybe eBay if I drop that shelf. I actually hope it's the bright red plastic that was pictured so I do have to buy a Maketoys Tanker later. I hope they KO the Protector set so I can make other figures because I don't know if you guys are aware but the Shadow Scyther set is still too damn high. And I need 2 of them. But I don't want it for a Shadow Scyther, I want it to make something else. They would not be my Rodimus Prime or my Nemesis Rodimus or whatever. They'd be something new. Maketoys already has their money from it from retailer and Giant is doing so well that further pieces from them are assured. Plus, I still do intend to get a real Battle Tanker one day. Just now I won't paint it black and teal in a fit of 4am stupidity.

If tl/dr:
I support Has/Tak when they put out something worth buying.
I support 3rd Party when they put out something good and affordable.
I buy KO's of them when I'm using them for parts.

I support the original designer of what ever I buy.

3rd party products are made by fans for fans, they try their best to give fans what they want by ether making kickass official figures better or replacing figures where Hasbro dropped the ball or just couldn't really do anything due to safety laws.

These guys pour their time, effort and money into giving fans something they want and a choice, it's a sad day when people decide to buy a KO and steal from fellow fans. That line sound familiar?

However, I have no problem with people who buy KOs for kitbashing purposes, that way the already limited release isn't made even more limited, plus these things are freaking expensive.

guys why are you writting an essays worth of writting?

Because it's a message board and this seems like a decent discussion in and of itself without derailing the Battle Tanker KO thread into this.

Hasbro has limited support for the collector's market. Meanwhile 3rd party products are all about supporting the collector's market. Undercutting Hasbro's sales doesn't hurt them. Undercutting a 3rd party' sales would probably have a more pronounced effect if their product is still in stores.

In some ways KOs support a portion of the collector's market. But they do it by hurting the 3rd party market (open to debate, of course). In my mind there's a conflict there and, given the choice, I'd much rather get the legit version. Almost of anything, but I'll admit I have my limits.

do i like 3rd party companies? yes - do i like 3rd party company prices? no....not really...there just a tad to high

Okay, but here's the rub: would you care if 3rd party companies died because KOs were made of their stuff thereby undercutting profits too much to be profitable? This is a pretty extreme argument, but I'll put it out there for the sake of argument.

zodconvoy wrote:I support Hasbro/Takara when they have something to support. In the past six months, they have only put out two Deluxes which I wanted (Junkheap and Black Shadow) so that's all that I've bought from them since DOTM pushes all the good toys out of stores and into Ross.

This is where I am, really. I'd love to give Has Tak my money, but they're just not delivering what I want lately!!

One sticking point with KOs for me is quality. That's one of the big initial draws of the first wave of 3rd party stuff like City Commander. They weren't crappy; they were quality and just as good as the official stuff. Taking that away defeats the purpose for me.

But I do support more original KOs, especially of the Seeker mold. Even though the quality makes me feel like I'm paying WAY too much for them when I buy them. Still, a good point is that they're good for customization. Just wish I was any good at that.

The thing with KOs lately is that they're just too expensive, I mean is a KO seeker really worth 4 times of what the mold originally costs?

Dead Metal wrote:The thing with KOs lately is that they're just too expensive, I mean is a KO seeker really worth 4 times of what the mold originally costs?

Yeah, I gotta say I feel like a sucker for falling for the "thts is a limited exclusive item" line and paying full price for it.

Bringing the point back to the discussion, paying more than $80 for a KO of the City Commander mold is a ripoff. A quick peek at ebay shows the price on these KOs is FINALLY reasonable, but it took a while. I guess that's market saturation at work.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:...paying more than $80 for a KO of the City Commander mold is a ripoff.

That is what I paid for it. When it was first released. To think that a product that good would stay at the original price in a collectors market? That's just not how it works. I am glad that the KO's aren't going for that anymore. Heck, I have a plan to pick on up to make into Classics Star Convoy! He's cooler than Powermaster anyway

(Seriously though, if anybody has a Vector Zeta they want to part with, PM me!)

I just think a KO should be cheaper than the legit version's original price. On principal (as if a KO company is just full of principals!)

to add another item to the discussion:
http://bbs.actoys.net/read.php?tid=735995

Probably old news, but this guy seems to come with a KO of FP's Alternators Matrix. Going for $24 on ebay.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I just think a KO should be cheaper than the legit version's original price. On principal (as if a KO company is just full of principals!)

to add another item to the discussion:
http://bbs.actoys.net/read.php?tid=735995

Probably old news, but this guy seems to come with a KO of FP's Alternators Matrix. Going for $24 on ebay.

That's a KO Ford truck, KO Has/Tak, KO convention exclusive, and a KO Fansproject upgrade! That's right up there with iGears KO Bumblebee Herbie Bug being a Hasbro/Volkswagen/Disney ripoff!

And it's plate reads "MENG BADI"!!! This right here is a winner!