The Energon Pub

Is there any Third party offerings (Original design not KOs) that has windows? I can't think of one. Everyone single Car, construction vehicle,truck ect. they all seem to have windows painted in.

Is this a cost cutting method? hmmm..

Not that I can think of, but that's not a bad thing really when it comes to the uniformity of a figure.

Let's look at a figure that has windows/windshield, I'll use Classics Bumblebee because most of us have one of his many releases. For him to have a windshield and look neat and clean in robotmode, his entire chestpiece is made of translucent plastic so that the windshield is transparent. The roof has to be painted. Compare BB's chest to his molded plastic doors or feet. It's a similar colour, but not exactly the same.

Transparent plastic, to my knowledge anyways, is also not as flexible or as strong as coloured plastic. Given how complex some 3rd party offerings are, there are bits and pieces being forced to do all sorts of crazy things that would cause a Hasbro designer to cringe.

Pound for pound coloured plastic may also be cheaper, but I'm not sure on that. I do know that if they want a transparent piece, they'd have to set up a whole new mold-tree just to make it. So in the long run, it is more expensive to add windows to a figure.

TFC's Reflector has a lens. Does that count? You also have Uranos whose members all have windows. I think FP's Stunticons would actually look much better with windows. But, then, I like actual windows on figures.

Agreed, not saying it's always a bad thing but on some pieces it would be nice. I would be nice to have windows for FP's stunticons, or IGEAR's COGs and Hench. What I also don't understand is why must you have to have the roof be transparent Plastic as well why not just get the roof to be regular plastic and glue it together? won't the cost of that even out the cost of the amount of paint used?
Like RTS Jazz for instance the roof and windshield could easily be two pieces.

Offhand I have two examples: FP's Steel Core and iGear's Medical/Weapon Specialists.

This would be a cost cutting effort which I absolutely agree with. Gotta maximize what's on a sprue. Otherwise companies will either incur more production costs which may increase the consumer's price or we'll end up with painted clear plastic parts that don't always match the rest of the figure. Mkall's Bumblebee reference is spot on, as well as the Classics Red Alert/Sideswipe/Sunstreaker mold - but it's not as noticeable.

Think about ToyWorld's Hegemon for a moment. They used clear red plastic for the back of his head (light piping effect) and also the scope of his gun. Yet the figure also ended up with the same red clear plastic for his elbow joints and the back of his legs. I think most people found this curious, some may have been a bit upset by this choice because it doesn't seem to be necessary. I'm guessing this was done to maximize what was created on each sprue in order to rein in costs. The aesthetic of the figure isn't harmed too badly because of these inclusions, so hopefully it was a win-win for everyone, albeit a bit thought provoking.

With Steel Core, FP made use of the clear green plastic to also create the blade of his weapon. Not sure where the Specialists make use of additional clear plastic parts, but maybe this wasn't such a big deal since both figures needed the same windshield and it is a large piece.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:TFC's Reflector has a lens. Does that count? You also have Uranos whose members all have windows. I think FP's Stunticons would actually look much better with windows. But, then, I like actual windows on figures.

Oh okay had no idea about Uranos. I was thinking mainly in cars and trucks. Maketoy's Giant's alt Modes color window would look so much better if they have windshields (to me anyway)

hmmm.. just thought of it IGEAR! Weapons and Medical specialist they have a windshield! yep makes it look good!

EDIT:: didn't see necr0blivion's post. but yea more windows from Third Parties Please!!

Assulter's cockpit would look good in transparent plastic! (not that it looks bad as it)

iGear's and IT's Arcees both have windows too.

I agree on Giant. But I'd agree with any 3rd party TF having windos. It always looks better to me.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:iGear's and IT's Arcees both have windows too.

I agree on Giant. But I'd agree with any 3rd party TF having windos. It always looks better to me.

yea! It's just sad that hasbro/takara can give us windows on a 12 dollar Deluxe but it would be too costly for 3P to include in a lot of figures that could benefit from it really shows the economies of scales at work here.

mooncake623 wrote:What I also don't understand is why must you have to have the roof be transparent Plastic as well why not just get the roof to be regular plastic and glue it together? won't the cost of that even out the cost of the amount of paint used?
Like RTS Jazz for instance the roof and windshield could easily be two pieces.

It may appear that this is an easy thing, especially from the perspective of any of us who have put together model cars in our lifetime. Unfortunately, there are other concerns, primarily cost, that prevent this.

I used to work for a company that had custom plastic parts made for our products. I worked in quality and dealt with the vendor many, many times. If it is at all possible to mold something in one color/material, that is the cheapest. It is possible to mold using two different colors, but matching the plastics is a good idea, and as Mkall said, there is a substantial difference in the makeup of clear plastics.

Adhesives in an industrial process are tricky. They have a tendency to gum up the injectors. Then there are issues with gassing. Have you noticed that toys these days are either pressure fitted or screwed together? I imagine it is far more effective to paint clear plastic to match than to glue together parts around a clear window.

Then there is the structure. One piece is much stronger than multiple molded pieces or pieces glued around a window. I'll have to go back to my G1 toys and see how some of those windows were accomplished. If I remember correctly, OP's windows were in the die cast portion.

So, in summary, I'm thinking that cost is probably the primary reason, factoring in the cost of paint versus adhesive/labor to assemble the parts. Secondary, and probably as important, is the structural stability and strength element.

I guess I'm okay with having painted windows. It never really bothered me.

Agamemnon wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:What I also don't understand is why must you have to have the roof be transparent Plastic as well why not just get the roof to be regular plastic and glue it together? won't the cost of that even out the cost of the amount of paint used?
Like RTS Jazz for instance the roof and windshield could easily be two pieces.

It may appear that this is an easy thing, especially from the perspective of any of us who have put together model cars in our lifetime. Unfortunately, there are other concerns, primarily cost, that prevent this.

I used to work for a company that had custom plastic parts made for our products. I worked in quality and dealt with the vendor many, many times. If it is at all possible to mold something in one color/material, that is the cheapest. It is possible to mold using two different colors, but matching the plastics is a good idea, and as Mkall said, there is a substantial difference in the makeup of clear plastics.

Adhesives in an industrial process are tricky. They have a tendency to gum up the injectors. Then there are issues with gassing. Have you noticed that toys these days are either pressure fitted or screwed together? I imagine it is far more effective to paint clear plastic to match than to glue together parts around a clear window.

Then there is the structure. One piece is much stronger than multiple molded pieces or pieces glued around a window. I'll have to go back to my G1 toys and see how some of those windows were accomplished. If I remember correctly, OP's windows were in the die cast portion.

So, in summary, I'm thinking that cost is probably the primary reason, factoring in the cost of paint versus adhesive/labor to assemble the parts. Secondary, and probably as important, is the structural stability and strength element.

I guess I'm okay with having painted windows. It never really bothered me.

Hmmm... thanks for the information! I guess it just makes more sense in that case to paint the roof. Even MP sideswipe's roof is painted. But MP 10 does have windows on hard plastic? And it looks beautiful!! =] never checked MP Rodimus's windows.

It may well be down to the engineering of the toy as well. A clear window is great when you can see through to a steering wheel and seats of a vehicle. Probably not so good when all you're looking at is the toys folded up arms or legs.

FP's Chromedome has a translucent window as well. So his little dude can look out. Usually I'm not bothered by clear windows as a lot of the time all you end up with is the ability to see a bunch of robot parts all folded up inside. With that, and the potential quality issues, and extra cost, I'd rather not have it for most releases, but with headmasters and the like, it's a nice little inclusion. Also, a bit of light-piping now and then is always welcome.

craggy wrote:FP's Chromedome has a translucent window as well. So his little dude can look out. Usually I'm not bothered by clear windows as a lot of the time all you end up with is the ability to see a bunch of robot parts all folded up inside. With that, and the potential quality issues, and extra cost, I'd rather not have it for most releases, but with headmasters and the like, it's a nice little inclusion. Also, a bit of light-piping now and then is always welcome.

I think the lack of light-piping bothers me more, it's almost the standard with Hasbro now, and the figures without it always look less impressive in my opinion. With regards to clear windows, I'm not sure there are many cases where they could be used, because the design of the figures means that transparent plastic wouldn't be suitable. I'm thinking of the Universe Prowl mould, where the lower legs are necessarily cast in solid plastic but the roof and doors are transparent.

While it's nice to have a clear windscreen, it looks inconsistent if other windows on the same vehicle are just painted. This is a problem with Universe Ironhide also. For consistency's sake, sometimes solid windows are better. I like the opaque look on FansProject's stunticons, and also maketoys Giant look fine with painted windows. But iGear were very lazy with their Hench figure, by just leaving the windows flat black. IMO this looks really cheap. Thankfully, Reprolabels amend this problem nicely.



So I guess I am happy enough with painted windows, so long as they are painted in such a way that doesn't look cheap/lazy

I don't need transparent windows as a general necessity, but I do think there are examples where they could've really benefited. Personally I think ToyWorld's Aurora should've had transparent windows. I hate that his chest has that giant black block on it.

Sodan-1 wrote:I don't need transparent windows as a general necessity, but I do think there are examples where they could've really benefited. Personally I think ToyWorld's Aurora should've had transparent windows. I hate that his chest has that giant black block on it.

Tinted,

I prefer they not use clear plastics considering what 3rd party figures typically cost. Clear plastic has a nasty habit of becoming brittle and crumbling over time, though it obviously stands up much better than the swirly gold plastic known for GPS.

It's not nearly as flexible and resilient as many colored plastics either, particularly the durable gray plastics used on joints.

As for light piping with clear plastics, Hercules had tons of that as does Uranos.

I can live without the clear windows as it actually looks good to me having the windows painted on the 2 FP not-Stunticons I've acquired so far. It doesn't bother me on the 2 Toyworld not-Throttlebots I've got either.