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Randomhero wrote:Scourge is dead

Be careful with that conclusion! See: TF Redemption

ScottyP wrote:

Randomhero wrote:Scourge is dead

Be careful with that conclusion! See: TF Redemption

John barber revealed it in one of the GI joe issue commentaries. He didn't survive the Chaos event. In my opinion not the place to reveal that and it didn't make me happy but yeah...redemption was just sweeps.

Trust me, I want scourge back too and I'm hoping he can be retconned back.

Va'al wrote:

ctrlFrequency wrote:

Va'al wrote:

ctrlFrequency wrote:You know, I actually felt this was a fairly satisfying issue.

Shock.

Horror.

Awe.

*sarcasm detectors on full alert*

Your detectors must be faulty.

Hard to tell sometimes with you

ctrlFrequency wrote:

Va'al wrote:

ctrlFrequency wrote:

Va'al wrote:

ctrlFrequency wrote:You know, I actually felt this was a fairly satisfying issue.

Shock.

Horror.

Awe.

*sarcasm detectors on full alert*

Your detectors must be faulty.

Hard to tell sometimes with you

Sometimes. Yeah.

From now on I'm going to try really hard not to buy anything from IDW.

Prime fighting with that stupid flag is the lamest thing I have ever seen him do.

Galvatron's Decepticons look more like the X-Men now, complete with Telepath and Teleporter, than an army.

the book continues to fill up with corny IDW characters and fan built bots with no personalities.

Soundwave has been turned into a hippie.

Why even wear a badge now!? The factions are all blurred.

The entire IDW Transformers run is a giant mess.

Re; The post directly above this:

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL! Just go about your postings.

[quote="1984forever"]From now on I'm going to try really hard not to buy anything from IDW.

Prime fighting with that stupid flag is the lamest thing I have ever seen him do.

Galvatron's Decepticons look more like the X-Men now, complete with Telepath and Teleporter, than an army.

the book continues to fill up with corny IDW characters and fan built bots with no personalities.

Soundwave has been turned into a hippie.

Why even wear a badge now!? The factions are all blurred.

The entire IDW Transformers run is a giant mess.[/]
Then why are you even here?

Randomhero wrote:

ScottyP wrote:

Randomhero wrote:Scourge is dead

Be careful with that conclusion! See: TF Redemption

John barber revealed it in one of the GI joe issue commentaries. He didn't survive the Chaos event. In my opinion not the place to reveal that and it didn't make me happy but yeah...redemption was just sweeps.

Trust me, I want scourge back too and I'm hoping he can be retconned back.

Thank you for that tidbit, I didn't know Scourge was confirmed dead. I also wish he would come back. I like what directions the other surviving dead universe members took and I'd like to see Scourge get some sort of personality too (considering he never really did)

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

Randomhero wrote:

ScottyP wrote:

Randomhero wrote:Scourge is dead

Be careful with that conclusion! See: TF Redemption

John barber revealed it in one of the GI joe issue commentaries. He didn't survive the Chaos event. In my opinion not the place to reveal that and it didn't make me happy but yeah...redemption was just sweeps.

Trust me, I want scourge back too and I'm hoping he can be retconned back.

Thank you for that tidbit, I didn't know Scourge was confirmed dead. I also wish he would come back. I like what directions the other surviving dead universe members took and I'd like to see Scourge get some sort of personality too (considering he never really did)

I only found out from Scourge's page on tfwiki. It says he died during the Chaos Event. That baffled me and I went and looked up the source and yeah, John confirmed it in one of the commentaries to Transformers vs g.i. Joe. It really threw me off. I've been waiting for Scourge to make his return for 3 years(when I found out) and it's just bummed me out.

I defend IDW a lot for killing characters or crazy turn of events but Scourge was a character I felt was wasted. Personally I was really hoping for him to show up maybe even under galavtrons decepticons or showing up in MTMTE and it would be something to conflict Cyclonus with since they were very close.

Same goes with Straxus. I love Straxus and really wish Simon hadnt used him as a disposable lacky in dead universe story.

I still have hopes Jhiaxus survived. I want Jhiaxus to a center villain/mastermind in a story. He's always a lacky and Jhiaxus is best when he's the main villain. That's what I was hoping when it was revealed he survived the chaos event and was shown captured by the autobots.

Who knows, maybe Scourge will show up again one day. Maybe he is just listed as dead and he comes back later. Has happened before. As for Jhiaxus, I'm not sure about him. Bludgeon is still around so maybe he is too. It is all a bit vague, especially with characters that don't have explicit deaths or mentioned dead

Genericon #378 wrote:

1984forever wrote:From now on I'm going to try really hard not to buy anything from IDW.

Prime fighting with that stupid flag is the lamest thing I have ever seen him do.

Galvatron's Decepticons look more like the X-Men now, complete with Telepath and Teleporter, than an army.

the book continues to fill up with corny IDW characters and fan built bots with no personalities.

Soundwave has been turned into a hippie.

Why even wear a badge now!? The factions are all blurred.

The entire IDW Transformers run is a giant mess.[/]
Then why are you even here?

Don't feed it. I know from past experiences. Just look, read, shake your head in disappoint and move on

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:Who knows, maybe Scourge will show up again one day. Maybe he is just listed as dead and he comes back later. Has happened before. As for Jhiaxus, I'm not sure about him. Bludgeon is still around so maybe he is too. It is all a bit vague, especially with characters that don't have explicit deaths or mentioned dead

I know what you mean. It's kinda like ..."ratbat can still be alive...right?...right...guys...bueller?...bueller?"

At least Mindwipe is getting some comic love.

Randomhero wrote:
At least Mindwipe is getting some comic love.

And not a moment too soon aye?

Sorry peeps, I know how defensive people get when I criticize the franchise, but I'll be doing that today again.

This was the issue I wanted to wait to make my judgement call if I should continue investing in it or not. This series had its moments. The art is always great, no question about that. The writing had its moments too.

But something feels very odd to me. The writing and the progress feels forced. Everything is placed and presented to sell the toys. In the early runs, that wasn't as apparent. Now it's just blatant. Every week I waited to read the comic and every week I continue to wait, being teased in each one. Being promised closure. When a sort of closure finally comes, it passes by so fast and so nonchalantly that it didn't feel worth it.

"All this for...this? That's the "big" move he made?"

questions like this keep popping up

It's definitely components of fatigue. This issue just felt bland to me. Lots of you are saying it's great etc. I want to resonate with that. Just the constant teasing and "to be continued" and repetitive mystery has become exhausting.

Good review by the way.

I guess I'll sleep on it and read it again.

Damn...did I just OD on Transformers comics?

Actually, I agree with 1984 about Prime holding a flag is lame. Leaders holding a flag in battle does not sit well and is a flag holder not "badass commander of the Autobits." I felt that in the IDW comics, Optimus Prime had taken a backseat to being the hero and awesome warrior that we know and respect. He's willing to sacrifice himself for others, and is revered in battle. Personally, Beast Wars Neo (where Optimus) was a mammoth) portrayed him best. THE Optimus Prime do not rush into battle and get beats we to a pulp by random bad guys. In BW Neo, when he shows up, he beats the crap out of everyone. That's a feared warrior. Right now, Optimus Prime is only a name. Disagree with me if you like, and argue all you want about change is good, but the overall character should not be messed with. Take away wolverine's claws and he no longer is wolverine

President-prime wrote:Right now, Optimus Prime is only a name.

That is exactly the point! He is a name that carries weight and reverence (on one side) and disgust (on several many). The whole DOOP starting point was about him wanting to lose his name, which he then came back to, and is now exploiting with a lot of the people who follow him - some really quite begrudgingly.

As Galvatron and Soudwave, in different ways, point out: he is showing his true colours, and joining the legacy of the Primes that is so reviled on Cybertron.

budmaloney wrote:Every week I waited to read the comic and every week I continue to wait, being teased in each one. Being promised closure. When a sort of closure finally comes, it passes by so fast and so nonchalantly that it didn't feel worth it.

"All this for...this? That's the "big" move he made?"

questions like this keep popping up

That was exactly how I felt at reading last month's issue. The climax of the whole thing was just disappointing, with OP saying 'Ah but they can't declare war and conqueror if we do it first! GENIUS!'. No, was not happy with that.

This issue, on the other hand, while it does have those pacing problems we both mentioned, I think did its very best to supply a better development of the rash decision that took place in #49, including showing the fatigue that the cast are experiencing, too.

So yes, I disagree, but I'll gladly talk it more!

President-prime wrote: I felt that in the IDW comics, Optimus Prime had taken a backseat to being the hero and awesome warrior that we know and respect. He's willing to sacrifice himself for others, and is revered in battle.

President-prime wrote:In BW Neo, when he shows up, he beats the crap out of everyone. That's a feared warrior. Right now, Optimus Prime is only a name.

I pulled the two most relevant points from your post because I think they speak the loudest.

And there's nothing wrong with your views. Opinions are fine, and you are free to have them

It seems what you want is the the icon. The infallible. The hero that prevailed no matter what. He is good, he is rightous, he stands for every man, America, and apple pie.

Which is fine. That got us through a great part of the 20th century and moved nations and inspired real life heroes as well of generations of young imaginations.

Unfortunately, the time of the larger than life, unattainably perfect character that could conquer all and do it without compromising his values is over (and honestly, I blame my generation for it. Generation X got a little upity there for a bit) .

Media (print and visual) has followed what the masses want. The masses called for flawed heroes that we could better identify with. The masses asked that the heroes not be perfect because we are not perfect. We can empathize a little more with someone who is not always right, but tries his best to be and is less god-like.

And it gives us, and writers, more of a chance to delve into and explore social/political issues that would just be impossible of the hero was infallible. Which helps us identify with the hero (or the villian) more.

Do you think in the 1980's a comic book could really deal with social injustice from the villian's point of view? (Answer: no)

Show intimate relationships between two characters that share a gender pronoun? (Answer: absolutely no)

A female character take role of hero and not need the male to come save her at the end? (Answer: no!)

Show the hero in anything less than a perfect light? (Answer: briefly maybe)

Again, there's nothing wrong with liking that kind of hero. Absolutely nothing. The icon can be a wonderful thing. But our global society has changed and we want a different kind if hero as a whole.

Do I think that Optimus is no longer a good example of a hero? I think he is a hero because he is doing what he thinks is right. Same as Megatron did, same as Soundwave is doing, and same as Galvatron is doing. All are heroes at least to themselves (even though Galvatron is not a hero on this story).

The hero now doesn't just beat the crap out of everyone bad. Partly because right and wrong are not so simple, and people who were heroes in the past forced their will on others by just beating the crap out of their enemies and forcing others to do what they felt was right ... even if that was not what the others wanted. Which is the whole point of this issue.

Our history is riddled with people who forcefully took over other cultures/countries because they thought they were protecting them. But those cultures/countries didn't need/want peotected. And it isn't anyone's right, no matter how right they are, to force their will on someone else who doesn't want it.

ctrlFrequency wrote:The hero now doesn't just beat the crap out of everyone bad. Partly because right and wrong are not so simple, and people who were heroes in the past forced their will on others by just beating the crap out of their enemies and forcing others to do what they felt was right ... even if that was not what the others wanted. Which is the whole point of this issue.

Our history is riddled with people who forcefully took over other cultures/countries because they thought they were protecting them. But those cultures/countries didn't need/want peotected. And it isn't anyone's right, no matter how right they are, to force their will on someone else who doesn't want it.

Yes, this here, very much so. Barber has done some fascinating work, along with Scott - Roberts to a minor extent in these terms, as he's busy elsewhere in the universe - on post-colonial, modern international relations, and socio-political status quo, all through the lens of alien 'invaders/saviours'. The Council of worlds, the 'colonies' being more than just appedices, the feelings of displacement and morality that keep getting mixed up.

It's why I'm so fascinated by Soundwave and where his story might go. It's why Megatron currently works very well in MTMTE, it's why Galvatron is so obviously in the wrong about it all. And it feeds the deep seated doubt that Optimus is going through: what right does he have to do any of this?

I think we are all forgetting another little hint: Optimus is not the Optimus he was before combiner wars. Prowl has infected is mind, and some of the stuff that is happening is stuff Prowl would do. Now mind you this may not have helped Optimus had it not happened, but some of his actions can be said to be related to Prowl and his styles

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I think we are all forgetting another little hint: Optimus is not the Optimus he was before combiner wars. Prowl has infected is mind, and some of the stuff that is happening is stuff Prowl would do. Now mind you this may not have helped Optimus had it not happened, but some of his actions can be said to be related to Prowl and his styles

If Barber and IDW go down the mind-control route again, I will not be a happy Va'al.

Dr Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I think we are all forgetting another little hint: Optimus is not the Optimus he was before combiner wars. Prowl has infected is mind, and some of the stuff that is happening is stuff Prowl would do. Now mind you this may not have helped Optimus had it not happened, but some of his actions can be said to be related to Prowl and his styles

If Barber and IDW go down the mind-control route again, I will not be a happy Va'al.

no no no no no, not mind control.

Remember how the constructicons started speaking in much more unity and stopped being so individual? The personalities blended during the combination process.

the same thing may be happening to Prime. He and Prowl combined, and the combination may have blended the personalities some. It's not mind control so much as it is fusing personalities

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I think we are all forgetting another little hint: Optimus is not the Optimus he was before combiner wars. Prowl has infected is mind, and some of the stuff that is happening is stuff Prowl would do. Now mind you this may not have helped Optimus had it not happened, but some of his actions can be said to be related to Prowl and his styles

If Barber and IDW go down the mind-control route again, I will not be a happy Va'al.

no no no no no, not mind control.

Remember how the constructicons started speaking in much more unity and stopped being so individual? The personalities blended during the combination process.

the same thing may be happening to Prime. He and Prowl combined, and the combination may have blended the personalities some. It's not mind control so much as it is fusing personalities

Still not happy.

Dr Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I think we are all forgetting another little hint: Optimus is not the Optimus he was before combiner wars. Prowl has infected is mind, and some of the stuff that is happening is stuff Prowl would do. Now mind you this may not have helped Optimus had it not happened, but some of his actions can be said to be related to Prowl and his styles

If Barber and IDW go down the mind-control route again, I will not be a happy Va'al.

no no no no no, not mind control.

Remember how the constructicons started speaking in much more unity and stopped being so individual? The personalities blended during the combination process.

the same thing may be happening to Prime. He and Prowl combined, and the combination may have blended the personalities some. It's not mind control so much as it is fusing personalities

Still not happy.

I wouldn't expect you to be. Mind games are irritating and a bother to understand

With an issue as big as The Transformers #50, from IDW and review on Seibertron.com here, we were bound to get more than one interview with John Barber, the writer of the ongoing and editor of everything else Transformers at the publisher - the following is found on Newsarama, and contains some spoilers from the issue, so keep going only once you've read the issue!

[...] One of the things with Optimus Prime is that he’s a good guy. Like, a really good, powerful, guy. So over the years, he'd sort of had doubt introduced to him in the IDW comic books, where he was a little more hesitating in his actions. As I was writing him, I started to realize he was maybe going down that direction again, and it seemed to me—as a character, from his point of view—he’d want to avoid that.

But at the same time, one of the looming questions has been “what does it mean to be Prime?” Starscream’s ruling Cybertron; Megatron’s an Autobot... Some people see him as a war leader, others see him as a messianic figure... Some ’bots are loyally on his side and will follow him anywhere, and others—old friends—start to doubt him.

[...]

Nrama: As the battle and the main story ended, the issue kicked into another gear with that dream sequence from Optimus. What can you say about that? Is it a premonition? Will some (or all) of it come true?

Barber: Some of Optimus's dream is literally true. Some is symbolic. Some is what he fears. Maybe some is leading him to what he needs to know. And a big part of it recalls an ancient prophesy from the days of the original Primes. Is it Optimus projecting himself onto this old tale? Or is it the prophecy asserting itself onto its object?

[...]

But what really comes next is all of the pieces of this series coming together. The politics of Cybertron, the ancient history of Earth and Cybertron, the relationship with Earth and its giant metal visitors. Optimus Prime, Starscream, Prowl, Arcee, Victorion—all those characters come together. Plus ghost-Bumblebee. Or hallucination-Bumblebee, whatever Starscream is seeing. Even poor dead Bumblebee has a role to play!

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I think we are all forgetting another little hint: Optimus is not the Optimus he was before combiner wars. Prowl has infected is mind, and some of the stuff that is happening is stuff Prowl would do. Now mind you this may not have helped Optimus had it not happened, but some of his actions can be said to be related to Prowl and his styles

If Barber and IDW go down the mind-control route again, I will not be a happy Va'al.

no no no no no, not mind control.

Remember how the constructicons started speaking in much more unity and stopped being so individual? The personalities blended during the combination process.

the same thing may be happening to Prime. He and Prowl combined, and the combination may have blended the personalities some. It's not mind control so much as it is fusing personalities

Still not happy.

I wouldn't expect you to be. Mind games are irritating and a bother to understand

Nah, it's just narratively lazy. Just like 'it was all a dream'.