The Energon Pub

So I saw Transformers the movie the other night for the first time...
I've been thinking...okay the matrix of leadership only worked for Hot Rod...it didn't work for Ultra Magnus or Galvatron...
Could that be because Hot Rod was the first one to hold the Matrix after Optimus Prime died?Or is it just because Hot Rod was destined or something? Is their a real or official reason?

I belive he is the chosen one but other people will tell you he's just a chump

chosen one
hes got the touch hes got the power!!

Stan Bush sang it himself. He's not Optimus, but at least he can deal with that now.

Or could it be that it was the right time for the Matrix to open?

Nobody knows...

plusapopsicle wrote:So I saw Transformers the movie the other night for the first time...
I've been thinking...okay the matrix of leadership only worked for Hot Rod...it didn't work for Ultra Magnus or Galvatron...
Could that be because Hot Rod was the first one to hold the Matrix after Optimus Prime died?Or is it just because Hot Rod was destined or something? Is their a real or official reason?

The Matrix's power was used by other characters later on in the serries.

So in the long run your question cant really be answered definitivly.

Remember, Prime said that the Matrix would light their darkest hour. Unicron destroying Cybertron and the Transformer race I would classify as their darkest hour. Also the Hate Plague in The Return of Optimus Prime 2 parter was another dark hour for the Transformer and Human race. Think on that

Doesn't Prime's prophetic line, "one day an Autobot shall rise from our ranks and use the power of the Matrix to light our darkest hour!" prove that there will be a chosen one.

He didn't say "may", he said "will". Hence it's predestined.

Hours don't get much darker than when a world devouring demi-god turns up to destroy your planet, so again, I believe that Hot Rod was the chosen one.

I know the Optimus lovers hate Roddy for his part in Prime's death but that still doesn't take away from the fact that Hot Rod was the chosen one.

The UK comics further expanded on this by showing us that Primus, quite literally the heart and soul of the Matrix, bore a remarkable resemblance to Hot Rod/ Rodimus in his organic form.

Windsweeper wrote:Doesn't Prime's prophetic line, "one day an Autobot shall rise from our ranks and use the power of the Matrix to light our darkest hour!" prove that there will be a chosen one.

Actually he doent really prove anything more then any other prophetsies or words from different religions.

Windsweeper wrote:He didn't say "may", he said "will". Hence it's predestined.

As does every prophetsy about a coming savior.They cant all be right.

And the simple fact that other characters besides Hot Rod were effected by the Matrix and were able to use the power of the Matrix to some degree dis-proves the idea that "ONLY" the chosen one can.

Windsweeper wrote:Hours don't get much darker than when a world devouring demi-god turns up to destroy your planet,

Or a Alien Hate virus that threated to destroy all life?????

Windsweeper wrote: so again, I believe that Hot Rod was the chosen one.

And if he was explain how others could use the Matrix.

Windsweeper wrote:I know the Optimus lovers hate Roddy for his part in Prime's death but that still doesn't take away from the fact that Hot Rod was the chosen one.

No but the fact that others were able to use the Matrix proves that the idea of a "Chosen One" to be a myth.

Windsweeper wrote:The UK comics further expanded on this by showing us that Primus, quite literally the heart and soul of the Matrix, bore a remarkable resemblance to Hot Rod/ Rodimus in his organic form.

That was shown in the U.S. comics as well.

And if you really want to get into it, Optimus Prime was the "chosen one."

Sledge wrote:And if you really want to get into it, Optimus Prime was the "chosen one."

You know what I say......there was "NO" chosen one.

The way I see it, the idea was a myth created to conceal the fact that a small number of the TF population is capable of useing the Matrix.

I think TF fans have kinda blown this "chosen one" thing out of all proportion. All the prophecy really says is "One day, someone's gonna use this thing." If a Ford worker looks at an Escort as it rolls off the production line and says "One day, a member of the public will take the keys of this car and use it to start the engine" it doesn't mean the person who does that is in any way special.

Sledge wrote:I think TF fans have kinda blown this "chosen one" thing out of all proportion. All the prophecy really says is "One day, someone's gonna use this thing." If a Ford worker looks at an Escort as it rolls off the production line and says "One day, a member of the public will take the keys of this car and use it to start the engine" it doesn't mean the person who does that is in any way special.

Thats an other way of looking at it that I never thought of.

But if thats the case how do you determine which character is the "Special" one?????

About the only character to not have used the Matrix to stop a "Universal threat" was the Decepticon Scourge.

Both Optimus and Rodimus used the power of the Matrix to stop "A" Darkest Hour.

How do you determine which hour was darker?????

The point I've made in other threads is simple: which use of the Matrix ended with it being empty? I'd say that's the one that used the power of the Matrix.

Sledge wrote:The point I've made in other threads is simple: which use of the Matrix ended with it being empty? I'd say that's the one that used the power of the Matrix.

And it wasnt empty for long.

By "The Rebirth" it was recharging suggesting that the Power of the Matrix was just not "Wisdom" but 4 fold.

Power
Wisdom
Transformation
Knowledge

And you really cant tell what caused it to be emptied.

Was it the fact that it was used to defeat 2 universal threats in just 1 year??????

Was it simply its use in combating the hate plague????

Was it the "multiple" upgrading of Hot-Rod to Rodimus Prime?????

Or was it a combination of all of the above pulse its power being tapped by a Decepticon?????

Any one of these or combination of 2 or all could be the cause of it being emptied by the end of the hate plague incident.

I'm going to have to rewatch Rebirth, but that doesn't sound familiar. TFWiki only mentions Prime using the Matrix shell to access Vector Sigma, nothing about it recharging.

Also, at the end of TRoOP, Prime mentions that "it's up to all of us to fill it again with the wisdom we accumulate from this day forward." So the Matrix is a repository of wisdom, and has been emptied by defeating the hate plague. Therefore, hate plague = darkest hour, and if you want to belive in such things, Prime is the "chosen one." Making Galvatron Evil Betty. Opinion is divided as to whether Skywarp or Thundercracker became the cow.

Sledge wrote:I'm going to have to rewatch Rebirth, but that doesn't sound familiar. TFWiki only mentions Prime using the Matrix shell to access Vector Sigma, nothing about it recharging.

It wasnt said to be recharging but it was shown to be lit up again and humming with power.

Every time we saw the matrix out of a body it had a "Hum" of a power source and it was lit up.

At the end of "The Return of Optimus Prime" the hum was gone and it was no longer lit up with light.

But by "The Rebirth" it was again humming and lit up suggesting it was recharging.

Sledge wrote:Also, at the end of TRoOP, Prime mentions that "it's up to all of us to fill it again with the wisdom we accumulate from this day forward." So the Matrix is a repository of wisdom, and has been emptied by defeating the hate plague. Therefore, hate plague = darkest hour,

The Matrix was also said to be a source of power and knowledge.

And just how does "Wisdom" become and energy source capable of defeating madness?????

Its obvious that the Matrix "Transformed" its stored wisdom and used it as a energy based weapon.

The effect that the "Wisdom attack" had on the hate plague was no different then the effect on Unicrons body.

It could be that it was "Wisdom" that started the destruction within Unicron as well.

So again how do you chose which was the "Darker hour"?????How can we say that it wasnt the multiple uses of the Matrix that lead to its being emtyed?????

Sledge wrote:and if you want to belive in such things, Prime is the "chosen one." Making Galvatron Evil Betty. Opinion is divided as to whether Skywarp or Thundercracker became the cow.

What film is that again?????

Skywarp or Thundercracker being the cow? Could that refere to the never ending debate of who who they were prior to being formatted into Scourge or Cyclonus?

fenrir72 wrote:Skywarp or Thundercracker being the cow? Could that refere to the never ending debate of who who they were prior to being formatted into Scourge or Cyclonus?

Sledge has made similar comments before.I think its from the movie "Kung Pow" or Kung Pou" or something like that.

Kung Pow! Enter the Fist, baby! I'm a birdie too.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you again. I don't see how the Matrix functions as an energy weapon. All we are told is it is a repository of the collected wisdom of the Autobots. "Ah, but how does that explain blowing up Unicron?" Someone built Unicron. Someone knew how to destroy him. Maybe the knowledge of how to do that was in the Matrix.

How do we know what lead to the Matrix being empty? First of all, we have the description of how it will be used. "An Autobot will rise from our ranks and use the power of the Matrix to light our darkest hour." AN Autobot. Not two. So that has to be Prime.

Second, I think it's reasonable to assume that it takes more wisdom to cure a galaxy of madness than it does to go "Ah, there's the self-destruct switch."

Sledge wrote:I'm gonna have to disagree with you again. I don't see how the Matrix functions as an energy weapon.

The explain the waves of energy that were released from the Matrix that destroyed both Unicron and the Hate plague.

Both times the energy was visable to the other characters in the story.

Sledge wrote: All we are told is it is a repository of the collected wisdom of the Autobots.

Also one of Knowledge and Power.

Sledge wrote: "Ah, but how does that explain blowing up Unicron?" Someone built Unicron. Someone knew how to destroy him. Maybe the knowledge of how to do that was in the Matrix.

As was the knowledge on how to destroy the Hate plague.

Sledge wrote:How do we know what lead to the Matrix being empty? First of all, we have the description of how it will be used. "An Autobot will rise from our ranks and use the power of the Matrix to light our darkest hour." AN Autobot. Not two. So that has to be Prime.

And again which Prime?????What you [and the movie] just described can be applied to both Rodimus and Optimus.

Both Rodimus and Optimus used the Matrix in very similar ways to stop an "EVIL" that threatened to consume the universe.

So again.....how do you determine what really caused the Matrix to be emptied????

You havent made a logical argument that discounts the possibilities that it was from a combination of factors.

Sledge wrote:Second, I think it's reasonable to assume that it takes more wisdom to cure a galaxy of madness than it does to go "Ah, there's the self-destruct switch."

As usual your over simplifying the matter to fit your theory......but you dont provide any reason to dismiss the theories of others.

What you see as "flipping the self destruct switch" I see as the Matrix useing its "Wisdom" to destroy a a source of "Anti-life".

That the Wisdom of the Matrix was used to destroy a character that had consumed enough power and life threw out the universe that it had elivated him to the level of a "MAD GOD".

That the energy based wisdom, upon touching parts of Unicron, destroyed as it did when touching those infected with the Hate plague.