The Energon Pub

I though this would be something cool to discuss.
So what a transformers show cannot lack?
Optimus Prime?
A tech-guy?
One smart betrayer?
A comic relief?



State your opinions,i will post mine latter.

A good incarnation of Prime
Depth
Attention to detail
High quality animation
Good action
Memorable voice actors
Respect for the mythology

Megatron, in-depth storyline that's understandable, soundwave, shockwave, combiners.

American production and aesthetics

It Is Him wrote:American production and aesthetics

Quoted and made annoyingly large for truth!!!!!!

Name_Violation wrote:

It Is Him wrote:American production and aesthetics

Quoted and made annoyingly large for truth!!!!!!

I agree as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of anime and other types of cartoons but there's just something about the Japanese produced Transformers that I'm not a big fan of. I do enjoy watching them from time to time but they just feel slightly off. There's a lot of "fighting spirit" and other typical anime tropes going on, which feel odd for a Transformers story.

However, I do like anime for its variety and the Japanese openess to the media of animation whereas typically in the West, animation/cartoons are strictly children's fare.

If a Transformers cartoon could be done in a similar fashion to Avatar, I would definitely watch it. Avatar takes all the best parts of anime(good storytelling, good pacing, balance of lightheartedness and heavier drama) and runs with it. The show displays a definite affection for anime and homages are regular but it doesn't try too hard to be anime. It takes inspiration from anime and does its own thing.

Getting back to the topic, I think the main factors a Transformers show cannot lack are:

Competent protagonists and antagonists: Using TFA as an example, we see two types of competence. First we see the Autobots under Optimus Prime's command stepping up to the plate as they are mainly non-military. Ratchet is a vet and Optimus was well on his way to the Elite Guard but they're a maintenence crew when we are introduced to them. Secondly, we see Megatron as a more cunning adversary who does not use the goofy fallback of "taking over the universe!". He is the unquestioned leader of the Decepticons, and has a more realistic goal in taking over Cybertron, a power struggle of planetry scale rather than something galaxy or universe wide. His use of Shockwave almost secures this take over.

Strong storytelling and a compelling overall concept: Despite the franchise being based on selling toys and the general story involving giant alient robots, there's no excuse for bad storytelling and concept. Character development and good narrative should never be absent in a story.

We should have reasonable motivation as well, within the context of the story. As mentioned previously, TFA Megatron was not aiming for a ridiculously high goal as other Megatrons/Galvatrons usually do. To have more depth, I would like to see the Autobots and Decepticons portrayed as opposing factions who have many issues in common.

Rather than having the shallow division of "good guys" and "bad guys", there should be many areas of grey. No doubt there should still be definite evil and villainy in the Decepticons but why not portray Megatron as a Cybertronian who wishes to unify his world under a strong government? But at the same time, we should see fundamental psychological flaws that distort his intent such as an attitude that the ends justify the means and a pure prejudice against any non-Cybertronian so that he doesn't care what happens to those not of his race, making him ruthless in the pursuit of his vision?

For Optimus, I would like to avoid the perfect leader portrayal so often seen in his many incarnations. The TFA OP was a refreshing take in making the character a military academy washout but not for incompetence. He was a morally upstanding character with natural leadership qualities but he had issues in his past that interfered with his ability to lead with all of his confidence at times.

Good quality animation: With all the money that Hasbro gets from Transformers sales, they should be able to fund a well produced cartoon. I would also prefer avoiding mixed styles such as the traditional animation/CGI in the Unicron Trilogy unless it is done well, which is often not the case.

Optimus Prime and Megatron: We need to have these two iconic archetypes to exist in one form or another. Now please understand that this is not a requirement for the characters to exist within the main cast. They could be used as characters of legend/ancient history or even more recent history, similar to how it was done in Beast Wars. I don't even think we need an Optimus and a Megatron as the leaders in the story. I know it isn't a popular view but I think that as long as plotting and writing of the story is done well, you don't need to rehash the same characters over and over again. Now this isn't ultimately a realistic option because as a company who has built Transformers around Optimus and Megatron, Hasbro would not likely opt to try different main cast leaders in a show. Hasbro wants to use name recognition and rightfully so.

the g1 japaneese series' made the tf's too thin looking for my taste. and even more annoying humans.

how about a "reverse point of view" series, where we're made to sympathsise with the cons (i think one of the jap series did that at the end. zone maybe? but done in an american series.

First, double what Convotron said. Maybe square it.

I liked that the TFA characters had *backstory* (what a concept), even though sometimes it was kind of...lame. It just gave the feel that there was more going on than what we saw on Earth. That was always one of the dippy parts of many of the series for me--and the movies, as well--that it's like EVERYTHING revolves around Earth and humans (and strangely underage humans at that). I could see Earth being *a* battlefield, but *the* battlefield? Never quite worked for me.

Name_Violation wrote:
how about a "reverse point of view" series, where we're made to sympathsise with the cons (i think one of the jap series did that at the end. zone maybe? but done in an american series.

A second to this one. There's a BIG trend right now for antiheroes (Joker in Dark Knight, anyone?), and this whole notion of the bad guys being mustache twistingly evil just for the hell of it, or bent on some vague formless 'world domination' (who really wants that?! All those whiny people!) that involves oppressing everyone small and/or weak is really wearing kind of thin. Yes, even with children, I suspect.

HK, Decepticon sympathizer.

Name_Violation wrote:the g1 japaneese series' made the tf's too thin looking for my taste. and even more annoying humans.

how about a "reverse point of view" series, where we're made to sympathsise with the cons (i think one of the jap series did that at the end. zone maybe? but done in an american series.

That would be interesting! Portray the Autobots as a totalitarian government and the Decepticons are a rebel faction of Cybertronian freedom fighters.

Imagine this...

Transformers 20xx, coming to your local broadcaster this fall!

Supreme Commander Optimus Prime:(as voiced by Keith David) "Freedom is not a right, it is a privilege for certain chosen sentient beings!"

Rebel Leader Megatron:(as voiced by Michael T. Weiss) "Peace through the elimination of tyranny!"

Transformers, robots in disguise and more than meets the eye!

I would love to hear Keith David by way of Goliath in the Gargoyles voice Supreme Commander Optimus Prime. Michael T. Weiss is probably most known for his work on the Pretender and maybe his work as The Nameless One in Planescape: Torment.

or take the idea to its extreme, and read a shattered glass

look at the g1 cartoon. once they came to earth the cons are starving and the bots are effectively raiding their fuel supply. they were getting desperate. and after the 86movie? the cons were pathetic. starving, injured.. hell, maybe make it a twist that they are evil by not showing faction sign till a revealing moment.

Hehe, SG, where Rodimus gets a van dyke to look distinguished but we all know it's the "Evil Spock" facial hair factor going on.

The Decepticons are just misunderstood. The Autobot propaganda is keeping them down!

Convotron wrote:
The Decepticons are just misunderstood. The Autobot propaganda is keeping them down!

Psyops. That's all I'm saying. "Winning hearts and minds" and all that Special Forces stuff.

Think about it: We buy that the Autobots are the good guys why? Because the song lyrics told us so? Free your mind, and the rest will follow! (Please note deliberate sarcastic use of songlyrics)

HK, Good is BORING.

Good is good but bad is better.

To put it in the most basic form: Two opposing factions of Cybertronian robot teams (one good, one evil) that

• bear insignias to mark their allegiance,
• that fight each other in what could be described as a "civil war",
• that tend to escalate their fight onto alien planets (most commonly Earth) in addition to Cybertron (though their have been exception to this),
• and that possess the ability to convert their physical body structures into alternate forms that resemble other forms differng in appearance from their natural robot forms, mostly used as a means of disguise (among other uses).

I think that pretty much covers the basics of every series.

A deep world with characters that have life and personality.

A Transformers show cannot lack...TRANSFORMATION. If they're a Transformer, they need to Transform. If they're a big enough character to have speaking lines and a name, they need to transform. No matter how contrived or tacked on the scene is, it needs to be there.

The only exception to this is Transmutate from Beast Wars who specifically didn't HAVE a second form because he/she/it was so warped.

Scorponok didn't transform in either of the movies. INEXCUSABLE!!
Alpha Trion didn't transform in Generation 1. INEXCUSABLE!!

Sidewaysx79 wrote:One thing any Transformers series must have- Starscream and Megatron

Not quite true. There have been several series that have lacked one or both of these.

No Starscream:

• The Headmasters (other than one brief flashback)
• Masterforce
• Victory
• Zone
• Return of Convoy
• Operation Combination
• Japanese G2
• Beast Wars Neo
• Beast Machines
• RiD
• Superlink (Screamer was "Nightscream" there)

No Megatron:

• G1 seasons 3-4 (Galvy was there, but he wasn't Megs anymore)
• The Headmasters (same as above, and except for a brief flashback)
• Masterforce
• Victory
• Zone
• Operation Combination
• Beast Wars II
• Beast Wars Neo
• Car Robots (Megs was "Gigatron" there)
• Superlink (Megs and Galvy were "Galvatron" and "Galvatron G")

Sabrblade wrote:

Sidewaysx79 wrote:One thing any Transformers series must have- Starscream and Megatron

Not quite true. There have been several series that have lacked one or both of these.

No Starscream:

• The Headmasters (other than one brief flashback)
• Masterforce
• Victory
• Zone
• Return of Convoy
• Operation Combination
• Japanese G2
• Beast Wars Neo
• Beast Machines
• RiD
• Superlink (Screamer was "Nightscream" there)

No Megatron:

• G1 seasons 3-4 (Galvy was there, but he wasn't Megs anymore)
• The Headmasters (same as above, and except for a brief flashback)
• Masterforce
• Victory
• Zone
• Operation Combination
• Beast Wars II
• Beast Wars Neo
• Car Robots (Megs was "Gigatron" there)
• Superlink (Megs and Galvy were "Galvatron" and "Galvatron G")

Megatron and Galvatron are the same character with a different name so Galvatron can still be counted as haveing a Megatron in the series.

Allso it's not really accurate to count Japanese series as they allways have different leaders for each side but it's a fair assumption that if any Japanese series was ported to the US the leaders of each team would automatically be changed to Optimus Prime and Megatron/Galvatron. But it seems you only counted the Japanese versions of the series anyway and I think the poster you're replying to was refering to US shows which do all feature Megatron.

There are however shows that don't have Starscream. Which would be Beast Wars (with the exception of a guest spot in the episode Possession but he was not a regular character), Beast Machines, and RID.

Even still that appeared to be stated as an opinion rather than a fact meaning he never said there's never been a series that didn't feature these character just he thinks they're characters that Transformers shouldn't leave out.

Rial Vestro wrote:Allso it's not really accurate to count Japanese series as they allways have different leaders for each side but it's a fair assumption that if any Japanese series was ported to the US the leaders of each team would automatically be changed to Optimus Prime and Megatron/Galvatron. But it seems you only counted the Japanese versions of the series anyway and I think the poster you're replying to was refering to US shows which do all feature Megatron.

Interesting enough there was a Transformers show [of sorts] that didnt have a Megatron,Prime or even Cybertron in the U.S.

Some time ago A "Playschool" version of Transformers were on the shelfs at the toystores.

They werecalled Transformers: Go-Bots.......and they actually made a cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQVIUaPm1AU

As far as I know there was only 1 episode and they left off the name "Transformers" on the show but it was on the toy box'es.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:Allso it's not really accurate to count Japanese series as they allways have different leaders for each side but it's a fair assumption that if any Japanese series was ported to the US the leaders of each team would automatically be changed to Optimus Prime and Megatron/Galvatron. But it seems you only counted the Japanese versions of the series anyway and I think the poster you're replying to was refering to US shows which do all feature Megatron.

Interesting enough there was a Transformers show [of sorts] that didnt have a Megatron,Prime or even Cybertron in the U.S.

Some time ago A "Playschool" version of Transformers were on the shelfs at the toystores.

They werecalled Transformers: Go-Bots.......and they actually made a cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQVIUaPm1AU

As far as I know there was only 1 episode and they left off the name "Transformers" on the show but it was on the toy box'es.

Forgot about that one. Though, there actually four episodes.

There weren't even Autobots or Decepticons. The good Go-Bots are lead by Aero-Bot, while having no real antagonist group. They all hail from the alien city of Botropolis, and there mission is to stop each new Go-Bot that arrives on Earth from causing trouble by reasoning with it, and undoing the harm he caused. Once the reckless newcomer realizes the error of his ways, he apologizes and returns home, promising to train to become a protector like how the five main cast protect the Earth.

More info can be found here.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:Allso it's not really accurate to count Japanese series as they allways have different leaders for each side but it's a fair assumption that if any Japanese series was ported to the US the leaders of each team would automatically be changed to Optimus Prime and Megatron/Galvatron. But it seems you only counted the Japanese versions of the series anyway and I think the poster you're replying to was refering to US shows which do all feature Megatron.

Interesting enough there was a Transformers show [of sorts] that didnt have a Megatron,Prime or even Cybertron in the U.S.

Some time ago A "Playschool" version of Transformers were on the shelfs at the toystores.

They werecalled Transformers: Go-Bots.......and they actually made a cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQVIUaPm1AU

As far as I know there was only 1 episode and they left off the name "Transformers" on the show but it was on the toy box'es.

Forgot about that one. Though, there actually four episodes.

There weren't even Autobots or Decepticons. The good Go-Bots are lead by Aero-Bot, while having no real antagonist group. They all hail from the alien city of Botropolis, and there mission is to stop each new Go-Bot that arrives on Earth from causing trouble by reasoning with it, and undoing the harm he caused. Once the reckless newcomer realizes the error of his ways, he apologizes and returns home, promising to train to become a protector like how the five main cast protect the Earth.

More info can be found here.

I didnt know all that.Thanks for the info and the link.

Yeah I'm not even going to count that "series" as it was WAY worse than the original Go-Bots and featured characters who were nothing more than Play School versions of other Transformers characters.

Beast Bot for example was obviously modeled after BM Optimus Primal and Cheetor. For some reason he had 2 different beast modes in the cartoon when in the toy line I think that was actully two completly different toys.

Rial Vestro wrote:Beast Bot for example was obviously modeled after BM Optimus Primal and Cheetor. For some reason he had 2 different beast modes in the cartoon when in the toy line I think that was actully two completly different toys.

Yeah, in the cartoon, Beast-Bot had several altmodes, but multiple toys of himself. The same goes for others like Speed-Bot, who had different altmodes in the cartoon, but different toy molds as a figure.

What they did was, for the toyline, first they made several toys of one figure (not an uncommon practice for Transformers) using different toy molds. Then, for the cartoon, rather than have them just get several body upgrades, they took one body from one toy mold, and then gave it several altmodes belonging to each figure.

Though, you're right that that it's not really a true "series", but rather, it's more like a "mini-series". And what's interesting is that, while two of it's four episodes were only on DVD (packed with a specific version of Speed-Bot), the other two actually did air on TV at a time (though, in a very limited broadcast quantity).

Transformation, and 2 or more factions fighting, that's the basic thing.

What the BAD trend is, that they put Optimus/Convoy and Megatron in some form into every series (except Z, I think... but in names and/or shapes, they were everywhere (Go-Bots not counting)) I want to see some innovation in this territory, American writing, a Story not centered on Prime (in the D&D rulebooks, one of the most basic rules is, don't use Elminster every time to save the a** of the heroes) and if good graphics is added, that's a plus. (Animated was good, but a bit much like caricatures, E-C was too relied on CG, and the movie visuals... no, thanks. Basically, something in E. J. Sue or Don Figueroa style)