The Energon Pub

What do you think your reaction would be if the name 'Sam Witwicky' replaced 'Spike Witwicky' permanently? Or if not, became just as common.

So, if they used a Spike-like character in the comics, or in the new cartoons, or games, or any other media, and his name was Sam, and he had a closer bearing to Shia LeBouf than his G1 counter-part, would you be annoyed?

I guess I'm talking mainly to the folks who didn't like the movie.

And what if Mikaela became a new staple?

And Bumblebee was always a sports car?

And if Prime was always a savage, brutal warrior?

What if even more things (beyond the Allspark cube and such) became central to the new Transformers universe in the future?

No, I believe we would accept it, just as we have accepted every other change that occurred in the fandom.

Beast Wars was a greater, more fundamental change. Transformers seemingly incorporating biological systems and processes? As I recall, people were upset that their beloved purely mechanical beings were taking on organic characteristics. Here you speak of a name change, a new character, a new alt mode for a character, and a butt-kickin' warrior finally acting like a butt-kickin' warrior.

I hope none of those come into trend, just as the Beast Wars-Machines-style transforming lines died with those series ("... Maximize/Terrorize", "I am transformed" and such)

Optimus Prime should be a warrior, but not one that kills wounded enemies. He stopped being a Heroic Autobot by the line "Any last word, Decepticon?" for me in the second movie, and I was actually happy to see him die in the forest battle after that.

Bumblebee as a sports car: I guess it's okay, but that role was Hot Rods... or Tracks... Sideswipe/Sunstreaker... Why Bumblebee? His Alternity - Suzuki car mode fits rather well. Your everyday car.

Sam/Mikaela over Spike/Carly: I don't watch TF series for the humans, as long as they stay away from the picture, I don't mind what their name is.

Allspark: Animated integrated it into the TF-verse perfectly.

As long as Sam is nicknamed Spike I wouldn't care. I'd hate if Optimus became characterized like he was in the movie. Optimus Prime is a hero, not a bully or a murderer. Autobots don't kill the wounded, they take prisoners. I don't think Mikaela would work in a children's cartoon because she doesn't have a personality and they can't have her constantly bending over or showing cleavage in a children's cartoon. Bumblebee being a sports car every once in awhile is ok. But always being one is going to be dumb. The whole point of the character (and his name) is that he's very small, but a hard worker. There's also the fact that Bumblebee has always been geared towards a spy role and when you think of that and assign a vehicle to it the vehicle should be a common one and not a flashy hot rod.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:As long as Sam is nicknamed Spike I wouldn't care. I'd hate if Optimus became characterized like he was in the movie. Optimus Prime is a hero, not a bully or a murderer. Autobots don't kill the wounded, they take prisoners.

Ideals don't last long in war. Frankly, I'm amazed that he held on to his nobility as long as he did. There's no room for sentimentality on the battlefield. You do what you have to in order to make sure the enemy is no longer a threat to you or anyone else, then angst over it later if you feel the need. Some people won't change their ways, won't quit or lay the f*** off as long as they're alive. As long as they're breathing, they'll come after you. I think it's like executing a mass murderer who will never ever repent or quit, but on the battlefield. We all saw how well taking prisoners worked in shows like G1, didn't we? The Autobots had to deal with them again and again and again... No end in sight. At some point you just have to put your foot down concerning these repeat offenders. And the first movie showed us how well imprisoning a Transformer works... Just look at Megatron. All it did was piss him off and make him that much worse. If you have a prisoner who you can't keep and who will NEVER change his ways, then what?

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:I don't think Mikaela would work in a children's cartoon because she doesn't have a personality and they can't have her constantly bending over or showing cleavage in a children's cartoon.

Perhaps if they portrayed her a little like Carly... From what little I managed to see, she seemed to be somewhat ditzy.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote: Bumblebee being a sports car every once in awhile is ok. But always being one is going to be dumb. The whole point of the character (and his name) is that he's very small, but a hard worker. There's also the fact that Bumblebee has always been geared towards a spy role and when you think of that and assign a vehicle to it the vehicle should be a common one and not a flashy hot rod.

You mean like Mirage from G1? He was a freakin' racecar, for god's sake! Sports cars are pretty popular nowadays, aren't they? Especially with the age group Transformers cartoons seem to portray the humans as belonging to. I can't go anywhere without seeing at least one. They're absolutely everywhere and then some.

Night Raid wrote:

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:As long as Sam is nicknamed Spike I wouldn't care. I'd hate if Optimus became characterized like he was in the movie. Optimus Prime is a hero, not a bully or a murderer. Autobots don't kill the wounded, they take prisoners.

Ideals don't last long in war. Frankly, I'm amazed that he held on to his nobility as long as he did. There's no room for sentimentality on the battlefield. You do what you have to in order to make sure the enemy is no longer a threat to you or anyone else, then angst over it later if you feel the need. Some people won't change their ways, won't quit or lay the f*** off as long as they're alive. As long as they're breathing, they'll come after you. I think it's like executing a mass murderer who will never ever repent or quit, but on the battlefield. We all saw how well taking prisoners worked in shows like G1, didn't we? The Autobots had to deal with them again and again and again... No end in sight. At some point you just have to put your foot down concerning these repeat offenders. And the first movie showed us how well imprisoning a Transformer works... Just look at Megatron. All it did was piss him off and make him that much worse. If you have a prisoner who you can't keep and who will NEVER change his ways, then what?

Then capture him again and again. In case of transformers, capturing them, putting them in stasis and burying them works (obviously, solid beton would work better than simply putting him in ice). Crippling instead of killing on the battlefield would be preferred, but killing wounded or retreating enemies, that is not what a hero should do.

Chaoslock wrote:

Night Raid wrote:

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:As long as Sam is nicknamed Spike I wouldn't care. I'd hate if Optimus became characterized like he was in the movie. Optimus Prime is a hero, not a bully or a murderer. Autobots don't kill the wounded, they take prisoners.

Ideals don't last long in war. Frankly, I'm amazed that he held on to his nobility as long as he did. There's no room for sentimentality on the battlefield. You do what you have to in order to make sure the enemy is no longer a threat to you or anyone else, then angst over it later if you feel the need. Some people won't change their ways, won't quit or lay the f*** off as long as they're alive. As long as they're breathing, they'll come after you. I think it's like executing a mass murderer who will never ever repent or quit, but on the battlefield. We all saw how well taking prisoners worked in shows like G1, didn't we? The Autobots had to deal with them again and again and again... No end in sight. At some point you just have to put your foot down concerning these repeat offenders. And the first movie showed us how well imprisoning a Transformer works... Just look at Megatron. All it did was piss him off and make him that much worse. If you have a prisoner who you can't keep and who will NEVER change his ways, then what?

Then capture him again and again. In case of transformers, capturing them, putting them in stasis and burying them works (obviously, solid beton would work better than simply putting him in ice). Crippling instead of killing on the battlefield would be preferred, but killing wounded or retreating enemies, that is not what a hero should do.

I think Michael Bay was going for a more real-world approach in the movie. The kind of hero Optimus was portrayed as in the cartoons wouldn't work in real life. There's no honor in war. There's no chivalry or whatever it's called. It's kill or be killed. Besides, where are they going to get the resources needed to build something that will reliably hold a Transformer in stasis for any length of time? What's going to stop somebody from busting them out so they can wreak more havoc? I guess Optimus is being a little less heroic and a little more practical.

But I get the feeling that that sort of behavior won't be seen outside the live action movies. No need for debate. I also get the feeling that Sam and Mikaela are most likely exclusive to the live-action movies as well. Double the lack of need for any debate!

Night Raid wrote: Double the lack of need for any debate!

Yeah? Well this is a discussion board. We will discuss anything and everything. Your point is invalid.

Scatterlung wrote:

Night Raid wrote: Double the lack of need for any debate!

Yeah? Well this is a discussion board. We will discuss anything and everything. Your point is invalid.

Seriously, the only thing that is no longer exclusive to the live action movie is the frickin' AllSpark. No danger AT ALL of seeing Sam anywhere else. Or Mikaela. Possibly Bumblebee as a sports car. POSSIBLY. But Prime is the same dude as he's always been. No sign of that changing. This thread about those things changing, when every indication I've seen, EVERY LAST FREAKIN' ONE, points to them NOT changing.

I'm afraid I just don't get the point of debating a change that simply doesn't appear to be happening.

None of the postulated changes would bother me at all, mostly for reasons already laid out.
I don't care about the humans in any Transformers setting, so basically, the less of them around the better. That being said, names are names are names, and character is what actually counts. If we always had Sams and Mikealas, I'd be ok with that as long as they were characters and not like the 'characters' of the films. I know, I'm a horrible, horrible man for not finding them to be Trolius and Cressida, but I'm sorry. I found them weak characters. But good characters can be named whatever you want them to be, and I'm on board.

Bumblebee, I also care not for, not for 25 years of TF watchin'. He could transform into a garbage can and I still wouldn't care half a seconds' worth, so how ever they'd want to make him look, that's fine by me. The not talking thing though, that's weak to me. Fix his vocals or stop making the movie focus on him.

The Allspark I liked at first in movie #1, then with time it grew to irk me. Then, with ROTF, I liked the Allspark concept again, and have since then been fine with it. I wouldn't mind if that stayed in the lore.

Night Raid wrote:

Scatterlung wrote:

Night Raid wrote: Double the lack of need for any debate!

Yeah? Well this is a discussion board. We will discuss anything and everything. Your point is invalid.

Seriously, the only thing that is no longer exclusive to the live action movie is the frickin' AllSpark. No danger AT ALL of seeing Sam anywhere else. Or Mikaela. Possibly Bumblebee as a sports car. POSSIBLY. But Prime is the same dude as he's always been. No sign of that changing. This thread about those things changing, when every indication I've seen, EVERY LAST FREAKIN' ONE, points to them NOT changing.

I'm afraid I just don't get the point of debating a change that simply doesn't appear to be happening.

There is an awful lot of postulating over nothing going on on this site. Its just for fun, jeez.

Scatterlung wrote:

Night Raid wrote:

Scatterlung wrote:

Night Raid wrote: Double the lack of need for any debate!

Yeah? Well this is a discussion board. We will discuss anything and everything. Your point is invalid.

Seriously, the only thing that is no longer exclusive to the live action movie is the frickin' AllSpark. No danger AT ALL of seeing Sam anywhere else. Or Mikaela. Possibly Bumblebee as a sports car. POSSIBLY. But Prime is the same dude as he's always been. No sign of that changing. This thread about those things changing, when every indication I've seen, EVERY LAST FREAKIN' ONE, points to them NOT changing.

I'm afraid I just don't get the point of debating a change that simply doesn't appear to be happening.

There is an awful lot of postulating over nothing going on on this site. Its just for fun, jeez.

Somebody at one time or another said man would never fly. Fortunately, people kept up with that debate.