The Energon Pub

I tried the search option since I'd be shocked if no one asked this before but couldn't find anything. Sorry if this topic has posted before. If anyone could point me to an already existing topic discussing this I'd appreciate it.

I've always seen fans ask about or create their own list of Autobots and Decepticons who died (that could be confirmed as best they could).

What I've always wanted to know was which Autobots lived from this group of season 1 and 2 autobots? Some characters like Bumblebee are obvious but then you have others whose fates are either ambiguous or aren't touched on at all.

When I think of characters that we know for sure lived I tend to think of Autobots who either appeared and were clearly the characters they were meant to be, were referenced by name, or had a speaking role since animation errors tended to pop up often on the tv show.

So which characters do you all consider as having made it out of the movie alive, for sure, and without a doubt?

IIRC, the only confirmed, onscreen deaths were Prowl, Brawn, Ratchet, Ironhide, Wheeljack and Windcharger. The final two are a bit iffy, though, since we see Windcharger later on and neither actually turn gray.

Also, Huffer's listed in the Autobot mausoleum in 'Dark Awakening'. So it's really only those seven that are killed, if that.

We do see Brawn as well in Season 3, but from what I've heard that was just a mistake.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:IIRC, the only confirmed, onscreen deaths were Prowl, Brawn, Ratchet, Ironhide, Wheeljack and Windcharger. The final two are a bit iffy, though, since we see Windcharger later on and neither actually turn gray.

Also, Huffer's listed in the Autobot mausoleum in 'Dark Awakening'. So it's really only those seven that are killed, if that.

Also Prowl and Wheeljack show up again in Japanese G1 continuity and Windcharger shows up again in American continuity.

Not to raise the hoary 'Brawn lives!' debate, but he did only get shot in the shoulder. For all we know, the 'cons left him alone.

I assumed that even if Brawn survived being shot, he didn't survive when his ship crashed.

How many times has Optimus snuffed it? So I guess we can't rule out anyone being dead 100%

In fact, as I recall, there was once a notion that "Wheeljack was only sleeping".

Well, compared to the Autobots on the shuttle, Wheeljack and Windcharger received very little damage.

What I mean guys is the American G1 cartoon. A lot of characters seem like they could exist in a grey area. Even though we didn't see them die we didn't see many of the characters a the end of the movie or in season 3. What i mean is Season 1 and 2 characters that we saw in season 3 that were confirmed for sure to be who they appeared to be, and there wasn't a chance it was an animation error.

Characters like omega Suppreme, Bumblebee, Cosmos, The Arielbots, etc. are ideal examples of what i'm looking for. below that are characters like Jazz and Cliffjumper. They had little roles in season 3 but they survived the end of the movie.

It doesn't matter if some (like Prime) came back later. Thats fine.

Anybody else get what I'm saying?

Metallo wrote:What I mean guys is the American G1 cartoon. A lot of characters seem like they could exist in a grey area. Even though we didn't see them die we didn't see many of the characters a the end of the movie or in season 3. What i mean is Season 1 and 2 characters that we saw in season 3 that were confirmed for sure to be who they appeared to be, and there wasn't a chance it was an animation error.

Characters like omega Suppreme, Bumblebee, Cosmos, The Arielbots, etc. are ideal examples of what i'm looking for. below that are characters like Jazz and Cliffjumper. They had little roles in season 3 but they survived the end of the movie.

It doesn't matter if some (like Prime) came back later. Thats fine.

Anybody else get what I'm saying?

We do... but there's no proof either way for a lot of them surviving or dying. We have one blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo for Bluestreak... and that's it. He never showed up in season three. Proof he died?

Well, where's his body? Or chassis in this case?

Okay, seriously. Most of us are operating under the 'never seen the body' for the Autobots we didn't see deaths.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:

Metallo wrote:What I mean guys is the American G1 cartoon. A lot of characters seem like they could exist in a grey area. Even though we didn't see them die we didn't see many of the characters a the end of the movie or in season 3. What i mean is Season 1 and 2 characters that we saw in season 3 that were confirmed for sure to be who they appeared to be, and there wasn't a chance it was an animation error.

Characters like omega Suppreme, Bumblebee, Cosmos, The Arielbots, etc. are ideal examples of what i'm looking for. below that are characters like Jazz and Cliffjumper. They had little roles in season 3 but they survived the end of the movie.

It doesn't matter if some (like Prime) came back later. Thats fine.

Anybody else get what I'm saying?

We do... but there's no proof either way for a lot of them surviving or dying. We have one blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo for Bluestreak... and that's it. He never showed up in season three. Proof he died?

Well, where's his body? Or chassis in this case?

Okay, seriously. Most of us are operating under the 'never seen the body' for the Autobots we didn't see deaths.

Thats what I mean, those Autobots where there IS unmistakable concrete proof they survived the movie.

To make it easier what about a list of season 1 and 2 Autobots who APPEARED in season 3 that were identified by name, had a speaking role, or were without a doubt NOT animation errors?

That should help me with answers to my question without going against some peoples ideas of who died and who didn't.

we see cliffjumper survived at the end but we dont see him anymore does anybody knows why?? And also Hoist, Inferno, Grapple, Powerglide never made it either but we see The Constructincons making it but the Bots that i mentioned appeeared in the middle of season 2 how can the cut them off??

Confirmed on wikipedia.... Casey Kasem (Cliffjumper/Bluestreak/Teletran 1) left the show, which resulted in Cliffjumper's disappearance from season 3. (Wiki pasted below)

... left during the third season due to what he perceived as offensive caricatures of Arabs and Arab countries in the episode "Thief in the Night."[7]

gothsaurus wrote:Confirmed on wikipedia.... Casey Kasem (Cliffjumper/Bluestreak/Teletran 1) left the show, during the third season [7]

That is true. Also Scatman Crothers died some time in '86 and so while we Jazz win a race in Part 1 of Five Faces of Darkness, we do not hear his voice. You do see Jazz and Bumblebee running in the backgroud on Cybretron when the planet is attacked by Tornadron in "the Call of the Primatives"

The easiest way to think about who lived on is to look at which Autobots (or Decepticons) were being sold as toys at the time the third season came out. Looking at the toy catalogs from 1986, we see that the 2nd series minibots like Cosmos, Warpath, Powerglide, Beachcomber and Seaspray survived and received at least the odd series background representation if not a line or too. They are also joined by the newer minibots (recolours of the 1st Series minibots) with Pipes, Swerve, Outback, Tailgate being repaints of Huffer (also slight retool), Gears, Brawn, and Windcharger, respectively. Hubcap, a Cliffjumper and Bumblebee retool, did not appear in the 3rd season.

Here's the link to the Lukis Bros site where you can view the catalogs for yourself. http://www.unicron.us/tf1986/

Notice that their are no Autobot cars, but the Deluxe Autobots, Roadbuster and Whirl are there. They never appeared in the cartoon to begin with, so their absence after the movie does not matter. The same goes for the Deluxe Insecticons as well. The only Decepticons to not survive the movie where Skywarp and Thundercracker and the Insecticons. Strangely enough, the Insecticons were still being sold despite being killed off. And I would not make a case for their survival (or clones for that matter) based on their appearance in FFoD because of the numerous animation errors in the 3rd season.

Starscream's ghost appeared in two brilliant episodes of the third season, but that is of no surprise as his toy was still being sold!

Look at the catalogs and notice that they have the Protectobots, Aerialbots, Stunticons, Combaticons and even the Constructions, but only the Constructicons appeared in the movie. Hell, the ad for the '86 movie came at the end of the commercial for Omega Supreme and he wasn't even in the movie, and but survived it and appeared in season three.

There are supposed script drafts, cut scenes and whatnot that prove that characters like Smokescreen and Shockwave died during the movie, so perhaps you should dig around for those if you want to decide on your own personal canon.

For me, the biggest problem with the movie is that the combiner teams and Omega were not in it, having only recently been introduced to the 2nd season of the cartoon while the movie was simultaneous was being produced. So, I think that absence from a movie does not mean death. Therefore, I still consider Sunstreaker, Hoist, Tracks, Sidewipe, etc to be alive.

It's really great to watch the first several episodes of the Japanese Headmasters to see how the old and new characters might have interacted. It's a little more than what we see in the Ultra Magnus commercial where they load up Sideswipe, Prowl, Smokecreen and I think, Jazz onto his car carrier mode.

Anyway, you can check out the third season on YouTube if you don't have it, or ask here if you want to know which episode a certain mini-bot appeared in. Because that is basically it. The 2nd series mini-bots, Cliffjumper, Bumblebee and Jazz survived and we have 3rd series cartoon evidence of that....otherwise it's a bunch of speculation and personal theories.

Btw, what do you think of the whole Skywarp/Bombshell became Cyclonus/Armada debate? lol. Dead Autobots is an easy one compared to that!

Lord Chumley wrote:It's really great to watch the first several episodes of the Japanese Headmasters to see how the old and new characters might have interacted. It's a little more than what we see in the Ultra Magnus commercial where they load up Sideswipe, Prowl, Smokecreen and I think, Jazz onto his car carrier mode.

Thats one reason i like Scramble City. To see certain characters interact (or at least be in the same episode) that we normally don't see together. Its a nice middle ground between Season 1/2 and the movie/S3/S4. I always wanted to see it dubbed in English and maybe reedited for continuity and included with another dvd release but that didn't happen. Its on the 20th anniversary movie dvd but just with commentary.

Btw, what do you think of the whole Skywarp/Bombshell became Cyclonus/Armada debate? lol. Dead Autobots is an easy one compared to that!

Nah I know better than to open that can of worms. It certainly has been debated endlessly.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:IIRC, the only confirmed, onscreen deaths were Prowl, Brawn, Ratchet, Ironhide, Wheeljack and Windcharger. The final two are a bit iffy, though, since we see Windcharger later on and neither actually turn gray.

Actually it was never confirmed in the narrative that Brawn died either.

His fate is up in the air just like Windchargers and Wheeljacks.

Hairball178 wrote:I assumed that even if Brawn survived being shot, he didn't survive when his ship crashed.

Why couldnt he survive the crash??

He survived a much larger crash from orbit over 4 million years ago.

Ironhide29 wrote:we see cliffjumper survived at the end but we dont see him anymore does anybody knows why??

His voice actor quit the show.

gothsaurus wrote:Confirmed on wikipedia.... Casey Kasem (Cliffjumper/Bluestreak/Teletran 1) left the show, which resulted in Cliffjumper's disappearance from season 3. (Wiki pasted below)

... left during the third season due to what he perceived as offensive caricatures of Arabs and Arab countries in the episode "Thief in the Night."[7]

Actually he quite at the end of season 2.Following the episode "Aerial Assault"