Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Posted: **Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:04 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:If you guys think this one was good, according to BotCon's Twitter, we ain't seen nothing yet - https://twitter.com/BotCon/status/448192677893267457

Not to rob Devcon of any of his hype, but we haven't even gotten to the jaw dropping reveal. Something we've never done. #PVK #BotCon2014

Sleezardo! Sleezardo! Sleezardo!

Or a 3.75" figure from a GI Joe wouldn't be too bad either. Curious to see what they reveal next.

Posted: **Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:08 pm**

Ooh! What if the "thing they've never done before" is the toy that's being made from an Energon mold, and it turns out to be one of the Kicker molds done up as a knight?

Like, what if they made a G1 Sari Sumdac out of it?

Posted: **Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:16 pm**

A GI Joe might be a good idea, if they're going to do one of the non-TF members of the pirate crew. I hope it's not EDC Spike or Marissa though, because then I'll have to buy the set.

Posted: **Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:32 pm**

Which begs the question: Do any of the G.I. Joe cons have exclusive toys, and if yes, do they retool them from regular toys? I know Hasbro has done it for SDCC's Crossover toys, but this is a little bit different, isn't it?

Posted: **Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:04 pm**

Argh! I was satisfied that this BotCon set was going to be another pass, like last years (Don't get me wrong, they weren't bad, but MW was always weird to me).

Seibertron wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:If you guys think this one was good, according to BotCon's Twitter, we ain't seen nothing yet - https://twitter.com/BotCon/status/448192677893267457

Not to rob Devcon of any of his hype, but we haven't even gotten to the jaw dropping reveal. Something we've never done. #PVK #BotCon2014

Sleezardo! Sleezardo! Sleezardo!

Or a 3.75" figure from a GI Joe wouldn't be too bad either. Curious to see what they reveal next.

Hm...Since we're going with the whole Pirates Vs. Knights thing, let's consider this.

Five figure, three Star-Seekers, two Knights (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Star-Seeker - Cannonball
Star-Seeker - Ferak
Star-Seeker - (plenty to work with here)
Knight - Devcon
Knight - (not so much to work with here)

BTW is it too much to hope for another Breakdown?

Posted: **Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:27 pm**

looks pretty sleek, waiting for more details!

Posted: **Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm**

eeeeh, he looks way to close to scourge's color scheme and placement. i love the mold, but they could've done A LOT better.

Posted: **Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:56 pm**

I was waiting for a Devcon toy, but not like this. :SICK:

Posted: **Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:58 pm**

OptimalOptimus2 wrote:I was waiting for a Devcon toy, but not like this.

Well, what else could they have gone with? There aren't many other broad chested, Floro Dery rounded-style figures out there that could have worked to resemble the character better than this.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:18 am**

I must say Devcon is perfect, This will sit pride of place in my collection.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:30 am**

Yeah, that is not Devcon. It is a shameless Scourge repaint in patriotic colors. Just in time for the fourth of July.........

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:32 am**

shockblast2 wrote:Yeah, that is not Devcon. It is a shameless Scourge repaint in patriotic colors. Just in time for the fourth of July.........

Sabrblade wrote:Well, what else could they have gone with? There aren't many other broad chested, Floro Dery rounded-style figures out there that could have worked to resemble the character better than this.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:44 am**

OptimalOptimus2 wrote:I was waiting for a Devcon toy, but not like this.

I know. Its insulting to think that one should pay a premium for this silly repaint. But, if throwing down $50-100 on a shameless repaint that looks nothing like the G1 character is your thing, knock yourself out. Not me.

What really is silly to me the fact that Hasbro can repaint any past mold with colors that emulate any G1 character and people come out of the woodwork with money in hand just salivating at the thought of buying them. Its a free market though and more power to them if they make money off of it. And the same to the buyers as that is just my OP. People obviously paid for them because if they didn't then Hasbro would not be selling them.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:50 am**

Sabrblade wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:Yeah, that is not Devcon. It is a shameless Scourge repaint in patriotic colors. Just in time for the fourth of July.........
Sabrblade wrote:Well, what else could they have gone with? There aren't many other broad chested, Floro Dery rounded-style figures out there that could have worked to resemble the character better than this.

A new mold, maybe. I mean, they are only charging you $50-100 for the thing.

If this is all you expect for that kind of cash then more power to you. But I expect more than just a $2 at cost figure repainted in the same colors as a G1 figure. Especially one that doesn't even resemble the character it is supposed to be save the paint and the head. Kinda reminds me of the situation with GDO Brawn.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:53 am**

shockblast2 wrote:A new mold, maybe.

How would that even be possible when Fun Pub can only use existing molds? They don't make all new molds, Hasbro does.

And the fact that Fun Pub is even making a Devcon is a sure sign that Hasbro has no current plans to make one themselves.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:32 am**

I remember going to Botcon back when they couldn't even add a new head. We were excited at getting just an exclusive pair of REPAINTS with a new character bio aimed at the fans.

FunPub has a LOT of rules to roll with. (Can't use existing mold, can't use a character on the shelf, can't do a new mold, can't do more than 5 new heads, have to use molds that actually exist and are readily available...etc. etc. etc.) I'm tired of people blaming THEM for the rules Hasbro sets for them.

Let's talk about what they do WITHIN their parameters.

Think about it like this. It's like one of those cooking shows where they give a group of chefs five ingredients to see what they can make out of it. You don't complain "why didn't he make lobster" when there wasn't any provided. You critique the meals based on what is available.

SO, that said... It's a HUGE nod to fans doing these obscure and long-awaited characters. Head sculpts look spot on. Bodies look like good matches. (Plus back in G1 and the comic, MANY of the vehicles were just odd, made-up, wads of spacy looking bits. I'm not sure I'd want a G1 cartoon accurate vehicle for Devcon. It's a bit weird.)

I guess my point is... you can see a lot of thought put into these choices. It's a solid theme and some great characters. That's what makes any of these dumb toys memorable — great characterization through plots, stories, voices. Are they perfect? No, but they're really good — and probably the only versions of these characters we'll EVER, EVER get. (Did I mention EVER?) I'm really grateful to FanPub for giving that to us.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:33 am**

Sabrblade wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:A new mold, maybe.
How would that even be possible when Fun Pub can only use existing molds? They don't make all new molds, Hasbro does.

And the fact that Fun Pub is even making a Devcon is a sure sign that Hasbro has no current plans to make one themselves.

Fun Pub exists solely as an outlet of "premium" figures. If Hasbro wanted a new mold to sell thru fun Pub they could do so because they make the rules. Its their money. But, they choose not to because people will buy a repaint mold for $50+ and I wouldn't either if I were them. Why pay for a new mold when people will buy any old mold with a new resin color at a premium price? Try boycotting them. If everyone did that it would not only force them to create new molds, it would force them to lower their profit margin. Don't let them trick you into believing they are spending a lot of money on these. There is less than a 1/4 of an ounce of resin in a transformer and even prime resin is about .80 a pound. Like I said before, about $2 at cost. It kills me to hand over $13 for a figure knowing this, let alone $15 now, let alone these $50 premiums.

But again, its your money and it would not be a free market if a dictator told you what to spend your money on. This is my opinion based on what I know about the plastic injection business, and being an accountant I have an insight into the finance side that most do not, unless they too work for a similar business. I am going to be bias towards the price point just because of my position, let alone being an accountant. That is why I believe that if this is your cup of tea then go for it. Who am I to tell you what to spend your money on?

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:46 am**

I don't think your "$2 of plastic" takes into account shipping, engineer, artists, staff, custom printing, labor painting, the moving and reassembling and operating a factory to press a tiny run of product...

Those costs spread out across hundreds of thousands of mass market Bumblebees is one thing, but across a tiny run of figures like Botcon, it runs the price up.

Check out any manufacturing stats. Go to DiscMakers.com and compare making 100 and 10,000 CDs. The price gets cheaper the more you make.

It's not that people get meaner or greedier the fewer CDs you make.

Hoping to educate here... not feed the trolls.

With that, I'm exiting stage right. You may all debate ad nauseam.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:00 am**

gothsaurus wrote:I don't think your "$2 of plastic" takes into account shipping, engineer, artists, staff, custom printing, labor painting, the moving and reassembling and operating a factory to press a tiny run of product...

Those costs spread out across hundreds of thousands of mass market Bumblebees is one thing, but across a tiny run of figures like Botcon, it runs the price up.

Check out any manufacturing stats. Go to DiscMakers.com and compare making 100 and 10,000 CDs. The price gets cheaper the more you make.

It's not that people get meaner or greedier the fewer CDs you make.

Hoping to educate here... not feed the trolls.

With that, I'm exiting stage right. You may all debate ad nauseam.

Your flaw is you claim I said there is $2 worth of plastic in a TF. I never said that. There is about .20 worth of plastic in a TF and that is IF they are not blending regrind in with the prime, which most are doing today. You also forget the fact that your model only applies to a new mold, which they are not using. If so, the at cost would be much higher than $2 at reduced production numbers, but nowhere near the price they are charging. Even if at cost is 1000% more, you are still looking at a $20 at cost figure retailing for $50+, which is a profit margin of 250%. Toys have HUGE markups compared to other products, like groceries, that have an average markup of about 50%.

Your assumption about price markups is horribly incorrect.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:06 am**

Well, I'd certainly attend and ask for a price breakdown.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:06 am**

gothsaurus wrote:I don't think your "$2 of plastic" takes into account shipping, engineer, artists, staff, custom printing, labor painting, the moving and reassembling and operating a factory to press a tiny run of product...

Those costs spread out across hundreds of thousands of mass market Bumblebees is one thing, but across a tiny run of figures like Botcon, it runs the price up.

Check out any manufacturing stats. Go to DiscMakers.com and compare making 100 and 10,000 CDs. The price gets cheaper the more you make.

It's not that people get meaner or greedier the fewer CDs you make.

Hoping to educate here... not feed the trolls.

With that, I'm exiting stage right. You may all debate ad nauseam.

Here you go. Try to read thoroughly before making false claims that I never made.

"There is less than a 1/4 of an ounce of resin in a transformer and even prime resin is about .80 a pound."

one pound of prime .80 / 1/4 an ounce .25 = $.20

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:09 am**

As I said, it sounds like you have a real claim against the greedy FunPub overlords. Call them out on the floor at the convention and demand a price breakdown per figure.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:19 am**

gothsaurus wrote:Well, I'd certainly attend and ask for a price breakdown.

Ok, lets do an example. And I will be generous and keep it as simple as possible.

Lets use Devcon here as an example.

Mold Cost - $0, but lets use $1 to help the financial load put on the Scourge toy.

Labor per unit - .10

Resin - $.20 (assuming they are using strictly prime, which is highly unlikely)

Colorant - $.10

Packaging - $.05 ( Retail packaging would be in the $.15 to .20 avg range)

Marketing - None, as these are not retail, but we will give them $.15 just to cover a page in the "freebie" comic.

Indirect Labor, Royalties, etc - $.10

Ok, lets total that.
$1+.10+.20+.10+.05+.15+.10

$1.70

So, even being generous I am still .30 under my claim of $2 per unit. For a $50 toy. Even if I mam wrong and it is triple this amount you are still looking at a 1200% markup IF it is only $50. If I am close them you are looking at a 3600% markup. Insanity. I cannot even think of a product that is worst, except apple product accessories like cables and cases.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:21 am**

Sabrblade wrote:Well, what else could they have gone with? There aren't many other broad chested, Floro Dery rounded-style figures out there that could have worked to resemble the character better than this.

^THIS^

me, being sarcastic. wrote:Hey! you know what'll be fun?? Let's act surprised when the botcon set turns out to be repaints and retools of existing figures! Then we can bitch about it endlessly full well knowing this is how BotCon exclusives work, and have worked for the last decade!

seriously its times like this i hate being a fan, and im surprised they cater to us at all. you want a new mold for the botcon devcon? keep dreaming. this is what you get, your hate of it is noted. and many other people are excited for it.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:21 am**

gothsaurus wrote:As I said, it sounds like you have a real claim against the greedy FunPub overlords. Call them out on the floor at the convention and demand a price breakdown per figure.

I couldn't go if I wanted to. But anyone else is more than welcome to use my information to do so. I would if I were there, but I would love to see someone field that question just to see what they say.

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BotCon 2014 (Pasadena, CA) Discussion: Toys and Events

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