The Energon Pub

I know some people dont believe this theory but I think theres some logic to this theory.

Magnus and prome are old friends and sometimes like brothers.
Magnus and Prime are the same toy cab.
Magnus this days are always repiants.

It's always been supported than Dion is possibly Ultra Magnus (or Ironhide), but there's been more proof for Ultra Magnus more than Ironhide (Especially from the Animated Movie, "Magnus, my old friend..")

I always thought that considering how backed up Alpha Trion was repairing damaged 'bots when he had to rebuild Orion Pax, he probably didn't have the time or resources to generate a different body template for Dion, let alone to give it the same coloring as Dion's original body. Hence, "White Optimus".

Dion's dead, plain and simple

That would mean I recognise the cartoon as canon but I follow the Marvel comics

Refuse to acknowledge a series that gave us the hated Alpha Trion

I believe that Dion was rebuilt as Ultra Magnus, but also see reason why others believe it is Ironhide because Prime always called Ironhide things like Old Friend.

For those of you who think Dion is dead and wasn't rebuilt, you just go ahead and continue to live in denial. That's your choice.

Cool sig, Jaw Crusher.

Denial nothing. No evidence exists, no CONCLUSIVE evidence at least, that states that Magnus OR Ironhide is Dion. Note: The Aerialbots stated that Orion and HIS GIRLFIRNED were killed. Alpha Trion stated "Bring them here and I'll see what I can do." After repairing Optimus, he mentioned that Ariel would be Elita-1. Dion was never mentioned again.

Damolisher wrote:Denial nothing. No evidence exists, no CONCLUSIVE evidence at least, that states that Magnus OR Ironhide is Dion. Note: The Aerialbots stated that Orion and HIS GIRLFIRNED were killed. Alpha Trion stated "Bring them here and I'll see what I can do." After repairing Optimus, he mentioned that Ariel would be Elita-1. Dion was never mentioned again.

IIRC after being rebuilt Optimus inquired about the fate of his FRIENDS - plural - to which Alpha responded that he believed he could use a similar process to restore them, which implies that he believed they both could also be repaired. So there is no conclusive evidence in ANY side of the argument - only speculation and conjecture based on dialogue in the episode (the aforementioned overload of repair work for Alpha and the plea by Optimus to repair both his friends), dialogue in the animated movie (Optimus and Magnus clearly established as old friends), and elements in the toy line (the fact that Optimus and Magnus share the exact same core body template).

I would have brought up the fact that the Dreamwave continuity supports the Dion/Magnus mentality, as Dreamwave rooted itself heavily into the G1 cartoon (Spike, Alpha Trion, etc.), but to be fair I excluded it as it obviously came about many years after the show's cancellation.

Windsweeper wrote:That would mean I recognise the cartoon as canon but I follow the Marvel comics

Refuse to acknowledge a series that gave us the hated Alpha Trion

I hadn't realized that Alpha Trion was so hated. Huh.
I kinda liked the old guffer, but then, that's just me.

I believe Dion is dead. It's a war people die. Also, Ultra Magnus is a post movie character and wardawn is a season 2 episode, since G1 had little continuity between episodes it's unlikely that the writers set this up for Magnus, so if he's anyone it's more likely to be Ironhide. As for Dreamwave... they loved taking things like this that some fans won't drop and running with them, if they had given Scourge and Cyclonus their traditional orignins I would bet money that it would have been Thundercracker and not Bombshell that became Cyclonus in their continuity.

Raymond T. wrote:Fact:
Writer of the episode David Wise wrote the episode before the script for the movie was made public.

Fact:
Writer David Wise had no knowledge of the chracter that would become Ultra Magnus while writing the story of War Dawn.

Fact:
No mention of Dion being rebuild was ever made. There was made mention of others being back at the hanger, but only Aeriel was mentioned to become Eltia One.

Fact:
Orion Pax never showed his alt-mode in the cartoon, so there is no basis to believe that he shared his alt-mode design with Dion.

Fact:
There is aprox. 9.000.000 years between War Dawn and the "present day" of the cartoon, between which a lot can happen. Even if Dion was rebuild, or reformatted as we say these days, there is no hard evidence he would still be around after all this time.

Subject:
Ironhide's comment of "fighting the decepticons as long as we have", could suggest that in an earlier draft that this was the set up to later reveal he was once Dion. Most stand alone story do have a payoff like that within them. Editing of the story may have cut the pay off from the story.

Subject:
Dion's use of 'chums' towards Silverbolt ("Go get your circuits checked, Chum"), is very similar to the use of how Ironhide directs his conversations with people, calling them pals and soforth. Ultra Magnus never displayed that type of effection.

So, it is your belief that Dion was turned into Ironhide?

If so, that's fine. The only problem I have is people who think that A3 (Alpha Trion) would just leave Dion there and not rebuild him.

Predaprince wrote:So, it is your belief that Dion was turned into Ironhide?

If so, that's fine. The only problem I have is people who think that A3 (Alpha Trion) would just leave Dion there and not rebuild him.

My believe is more that Dion ISN'T Ultra Magnus, rather than that he is Ironhide. But if he did become one of the two and you could only choose one of these two, logically it could only be Ironhide.

But if Dion was rebuild into someone, I don't think it would have been either one. This whole idea that Dion = Magnus comes from the death scene from the '86 movie, and only because Prime calls him his friend. There is no further solid proof of anything. There are no clues to apart from that vague moment in the movie to suggest this, while there are clues to support that Dion = Ironhide.

Raymond T. wrote:Fact:
Writer of the episode David Wise wrote the episode before the script for the movie was made public.

Fact:
Writer David Wise had no knowledge of the chracter that would become Ultra Magnus while writing the story of War Dawn.

Since Wise never addressed Dion's fate in the first place, whether or not he knew of Ultra Magnus really doesn't mean anything. Dion's fate and Magnus' origin are still unknown.

Fact:
No mention of Dion being rebuild was ever made. There was made mention of others being back at the hanger, but only Aeriel was mentioned to become Eltia One.

Probably because Alpha didn't seem to act like he'd ever rebuilt a female before...old perv.

Fact:
Orion Pax never showed his alt-mode in the cartoon, so there is no basis to believe that he shared his alt-mode design with Dion.

This also means nothing, IMO, especially if Orion were rebuilt. As I stated before, if Alpha were being stacked up with robots to repair, his time and resources probably would have been limited in order to deal with the Decepticons. And with the 'Cons practically beating down his door, it's doubtful that he would have put a lot more time into generating a different body template if he did rebuild Dion; Alpha's character was established as such that he would do what was absolutely necessary at any given moment to resolve an immediate crisis, and THAT's evidenced by "The Key To Vector Sigma".

Fact:
There is aprox. 9.000.000 years between War Dawn and the "present day" of the cartoon, between which a lot can happen. Even if Dion was rebuild, or reformatted as we say these days, there is no hard evidence he would still be around after all this time.

Well, Alpha and Optimus and Elita were all still around by 1984, so even without hard evidence to support it, the ground for just the suggestion is still solid.

Subject:
Ironhide's comment of "fighting the decepticons as long as we have", could suggest that in an earlier draft that this was the set up to later reveal he was once Dion. Most stand alone story do have a payoff like that within them. Editing of the story may have cut the pay off from the story.

Possible, but of course, there presently is no copy of that earlier draft to be seen, only what's in the finished episode to go on. Besides, even if Wise intended Dion to become Ironhide, the fact that that's not in the final script is open to all sorts of speculation. For all we know, Dion may have become a minibar in Alpha's flat, seeing how fascinated the old perv was with females.

Subject:
Dion's use of 'chums' towards Silverbolt ("Go get your circuits checked, Chum"), is very similar to the use of how Ironhide directs his conversations with people, calling them pals and soforth. Ultra Magnus never displayed that type of effection.

True, but then if you had blind admiration for somebody who later ends up popping round after round into you and you manage to survive it, you're likely to be a bit changed by the experience, too. Orion seemed to be a bit obnoxious and thick-necked till Megatron shot him up a couple times.

I agree with Raymond T. in that there is no conclusive evidence to show who Dion was rebuilt as. He could be Ultra Magnus, Ironhide, another TF that we know, or even a TF that we have never seen nor will ever see. The thing that gets me is people who think that Dion simply died and A3 (Alpha Trion) did nothing to rebuild him.

Predaprince wrote:The thing that gets me is people who think that Dion simply died and A3 (Alpha Trion) did nothing to rebuild him.

who says he could have done anything, its a war for crying out loud, trion possibly wanted to rebuild him but was unable to do to all the injured bots that he was repairing!

ChromedomeMK2 wrote:I know some people dont believe this theory but I think theres some logic to this theory.

Magnus and prome are old friends and sometimes like brothers.
Magnus and Prime are the same toy cab.
Magnus this days are always repiants.

My non canon theory was that while the matrix was used in rebuilding OptimusPrime into the autobot leader we know, Magnus was braught about by other means... like VectorSigma.

This doesn't need to conflict with Magnus spark being that of Dion's...

Dion's deactivated frame could have been left in the deep catacombs of Cybertron, Seeing that not even A-3 could fix him without the matrix, leading to the hidden super computer Vector Sigma. When OP was 1st removed from the planet, along with the matrix, Vector Sigma could have made a substitute in Prime's likeness. VS has the same access to sparks as the matrix does so even if Dion was deactivated his spark could have been brought back for this purpose.

Dion is not Ultra Magnus for the simple reason that Ultra Magnus did not exist in G1 when they killed off Dion.

I can buy the Ironhide theory as he is the old friend that existed at the time.

You know some of you guys have mentioned that Prime called both UM and Ironhide "old friend" on different occasions. Do you forget he said the same thing to Kup in the Return of Optimus Prime?

Either way there is NO solid proof one way or the other for this. It will never be anything more then fanfic or speculation regardless of your feelings on the matter.

This thread started from a theory we were throwing around in another thread.

Really what started this is when eHobby repainted Kup as OP and Wheelie as Dion.

Sure we know that Dion was written off before Um was thought of. But when did Prime meet UM? Obviously before the movie was set in 2005, why else " old friend." If it had only been since 1984, then he'd just be friends.

So from this we know that UM was on Cybertron before that fateful day 4 million years ago, when OP and crew with Megs and his crew following them, left Cybertron.

I haven't read any comix after the G1 run. I don't know if there is an UM Spotlight, if so, that may shed more light on the subject.

However, there is no real resolution for this. Dion could still be scrapped on Cybs, or he could have been reformatted into UM, Ironhide, or droid # 1.

I'm sure that prime had many friends and after an absence of 4 mil. years, I bet that they are all Old Friends.

I think that it is fun to add ties with the past and there is no way to write all of the history of Cybs, so why not think that UM is a reformatted Dion?


P.S. Jaw Crusher, love your sig.

Bonger - Ultra Magnus did exist, we just hadn't seen him until TF:TM.

Galvatron Prime - I get the point you were trying to make, but Kup was a bad example to use. We KNOW with certainty that Kup is not Dion since we saw what Kup looked liked when he was young(same as he does now) in "Chaos".

To reiterate what I said earlier, there is no conclusive evidence to show who Dion was rebuilt as. He could be Ultra Magnus, Ironhide, another TF that we know, or even a TF that we have never seen nor will ever see. The thing that gets me is people who think that Dion simply died and A3 (Alpha Trion) did nothing to rebuild him.

Dion does sound like ultra magnus and alpha trion may have recreated him as he did prime and elita 1

Dion was rebuilt into Prime's trailer...duh .

Ohh, that could work. Roller is actualy Dion. Where else did the trailer come from? Orion Pax didn't have one!