The Energon Pub

OK question in a time of peace, would the autobots be considered communist, socialist, capitalists, or something else? Time of war?

I only ask because wasn't Mirage said to be born with a "Silver sparkplug in his mouth" and Autobots making a living and such.

Which brings me to another question: what do the TFs use for currency? Do they even have some sort of financial system at all?

I thought they used energon for currency as well as fuel.

Oh boy.... I can see where this is headed........

the autobots would be considered terrorists. Decepticons ruled cybertron..and the autobots tried to over throw them...

Bottom Out wrote:the autobots would be considered terrorists. Decepticons ruled cybertron..and the autobots tried to over throw them...

No. All bot lived in peace on Cybertron. Then the Decepticons forged an army in secret and tried to conquer the planet. The Autobots were resistance fighters.

Oh and this belongs in the TF General Forum not here so I will move it

The prevailing peaceful governments of Cybertron seem to have been very senate-driven. There are also traces of "rule by the enlightened" where transformers seemingly designed more for wisdom and discourse lead. In this way, Optimus Prim, and the preceeding/following primes have been both a leader in defense of the planet and a spiritual icon thanks to the Matrix of Leadership. The wise ones deal with the deliberation of things mundane and habitual, whereas the Prime gets the call for important, instantaneous decision making.

In War Within their was a council of elders on cybertron, they were the ones who informed Prime he was the next one to hold the matrix. However whether they were some sort of oligarchy or simply a bunch of mystics is not specified.

I think it was set up in Origins that there was some kind of caste system in place, and the ruling Autobots were at least somewhat oppressive. I tend to think, at the very least, there was some kind of inequality. How else do you raise a whole army? (If we're looking at this on the level of political systems, I'd also prefer not to think it's just a question of "Decepticons are evil".)

KoH4711 wrote:I think it was set up in Origins that there was some kind of caste system in place, and the ruling Autobots were at least somewhat oppressive. I tend to think, at the very least, there was some kind of inequality. How else do you raise a whole army? (If we're looking at this on the level of political systems, I'd also prefer not to think it's just a question of "Decepticons are evil".)

How about "Decepticons are given to following an evil leader/command structure"?

It has been my understanding that the Decepticons are just inherently different in that they don't fit into the autobots preconceived concepts of a functional society. Thereby they were forced into professions that were not what they desired--mining, gladiatorial fight-for-fun stuff. . . I also imagine they were at least part of the military, if Cybertron needed one before the big split.

Being that the Decepticons were probably forced into their roles, or that there 'genetics' or alternate formes dictated their position in life, it suggests the society leans toward a dictatorship in that they are forced into their place in the great machine that is society.

If your alt form is a crane, great, you're up for construction. . . your alt form spews expensive energon coffee, great you run the new Cybertronian Starbucks . . . your alt form has vicious sharp claws and you shoots explosive energy blasts. . . uhh, you're in demolitions. . . to hell with where you might want to go.

wildfire405 wrote:It has been my understanding that the Decepticons are just inherently different in that they don't fit into the autobots preconceived concepts of a functional society. Thereby they were forced into professions that were not what they desired--mining, gladiatorial fight-for-fun stuff. . . I also imagine they were at least part of the military, if Cybertron needed one before the big split.

Being that the Decepticons were probably forced into their roles, or that there 'genetics' or alternate formes dictated their position in life, it suggests the society leans toward a dictatorship in that they are forced into their place in the great machine that is society.

If your alt form is a crane, great, you're up for construction. . . your alt form spews expensive energon coffee, great you run the new Cybertronian Starbucks . . . your alt form has vicious sharp claws and you shoots explosive energy blasts. . . uhh, you're in demolitions. . . to hell with where you might want to go.

And yet it's very rare to find a Transformer character who isn't at home with his or her alt mode. I think maybe the Spark of the transformer adjusts the body or picks a certain sort of "frame" on activation. Warpath and Beachcomber have bodies which suit their dispositions. Most decepticons are warmongers, speed freaks or road hogs, and their alt modes and personalities usually match quite well.

It's my understanding that the transformers scanned an alt mode after creation, depending on their personality. You like blowing things up? Both demolition and gladiatoral combat have what you need!

And as far as I'm concerned, transformers can't scan alt modes willy nilly like recent cartoons etc would have them.
Most tfs seemed to pick one mode and stick with it for life.

I believe it was called formatting. And then there's reformatting, when a tf becomes badly damaged, and/or is given a new position that really needs a different alt mode for working efficiently. If you're in construction and your alt mode is a sea creature, you're not really optimal for the job are you?

Then again, wasn't one of the Arielbots afraid to fly? Definitely an exception, not the rule . . . Taking my point back to the topic of the thread, yeah it seems that MOST transformers' alt forms fit their personalities, yes, but what happens if your alt form is destructive and violent and doesn't fit with functioning society? The Autobots step in, dictate where you fit and what job you'll do for the great machine of society and hope you'll be happy.

"Megatron, eh? Lets see. It says here your alt form is an ultra destructive lazer pistol! Interesting! Hmm, dillusions of grandeur, violent disposition. . . Your assignment will be -- gosh, where should we put you -- How about working at the Iacon County Carnival target shooting booth! Perfect!"

Six Months Later

Megatron: "No, for the last time you cannot have the large prize! I cannot stand this a moment longer! I hate my job! Starscream! Get down from the tilt-a-whirl and ATTACK!!

Next thing you know everyone unhappy with the autobots dictating where you work probably has guns, weapons, or other destructive impliments starts harassing the general populace. . . leads to civil war.

With all of this I wonder what the Decepticons could have been given to keep them happy before a war broke out. It sounds like they were just rebelling against a controlling government.

For those who were asking what the Decepticons could do, just have them serve in the military, operating strictly under a planetary defense function.

Well, i always thought that Cybertron was taken over by an imperialistic military-industrial complex, making Megatron something like a 50-foot tall mechanical Caesar.

The line "Et Tu, Gritustellus?" springs to mind, as does the image of Megatron being taken out by the Seeker jets....

Seriously, that explains everything. The military wanted to take over the galaxy, yet they chafed at the idea that they should try diplomacy first and overthrew the Senate.

Mr. Kemp wrote:For those who were asking what the Decepticons could do, just have them serve in the military, operating strictly under a planetary defense function.

And got bored and went a little mad since nothing really went on in their system for millions of years...

I know that there are many differant origin stories, but speaking strickly cartoon the Quentissons made them so Decepticons probably where the slave military of them.

I also dont like this new trend of multiple scans for new alts. It should come at a cost. Maybe extremly painful or limited times in a life due to the loss of something crutial to the process after repeated use.

T Honk wrote:
I also dont like this new trend of multiple scans for new alts. It should come at a cost. Maybe extremly painful or limited times in a life due to the loss of something crutial to the process after repeated use.

That is what I think too. It cheapens the whole idea of alts, and to me it makes the character less interesting if he/she changes their alt mode too many times. It is more interesting if the character has to pick something very specific, and then has to adapt to a new look and feel, even though this 'new' mode is close to their old one. I have the idea that ground- based and air-based Transformers are probably each sub-species of Transformers, that their respective modes have very mode-specific adaptations to their bodies and their minds.

I always thought of the Autobots and Decepticons as rival political parties. For ease of analogy, I thought of the Autobots as the conservative party, intent on isolationism, high moral values, etc etc etc, very Republican (for those of us who live in the US). In reverse, the Decepticons started out as the liberal counterpart, striving to spread Cybertronian influence and make the universe a better place as a Cybertronian Empire. Also, the Decepticons were big on civil rights, and, being a minority on Cybertron (or i always felt like they were), felt discriminated against in the predominantly Autobot ruled society. Eventually, this caused the Decepticons to congregate in ghettoes and outer reaches of the land. Then Megatron came, he saw his Decepticons oppressed under Autobot rule, and he sought to free them. Over time, and after many failed attempts, Megatron and most other Decepticons fell under an illusion of grandeur, a hope of some great triumph in the seemingly unending war. Their dream for the future was a bright vision of a Cybertronian empire, stretching far into the vastness of space, of rebuilding Cybertron into the vibrant thriving technological Mecca of their empire. No longer would they struggle under the Autobots, who swore that their way and only their way was the right way, they who called the Decepticons immoral, evil creatures, just because they were unhappy as second class citizens.


Okay...wow... I think I kinda went off on a tangent for a while there. So anyways, Autobots=conservative, Decepticons=liberal, and the whole war seems like a civil rights movement to me.

democratic under autobot and either tyranny under Megatron /galvatron or monarchy under screamer or oligocracy under decepticons

Ahh, Savage, thank you for illustrating just how much social engineering goes on here in the States. That is the precise reason they used red and a variant of blue. - quite probably on the orders of some punk in a bunker 2 klicks under DC.

It's quite obvious to me that things are the other way around

Course, the unintended side effects of using red for the good guys may not be one the people behind this would like - for all i know this misuse of red unintentionally rubs off on the Native Americans and the Bloods

In a time of peace Autobot society would strike me as semi-democratic or republic, probably running along the lines of Ancient Rome whereby those of noble birth could be senators, though anyone with access to the right education could rise up if they so chose.

In time of war or severe emergency, it reverts to a more unilateral rule with one bot making all the decisions, a "Prime", so to speak. Given that we have good evidence that anyone bearing the name "Prime" tends to be well enlightened by the Matrix of Leadership we can assume that this is a good system that has worked for millions of years.

Of course it doesnt matter how well a system works. You'll always get a subset of society that has issues with the system and how it works. You can have a perfect society and still get malcontents and misfits. How society has dealt with these has always varied. In the case of an Autobot dominated society, it would seem that little to nothing was done either way to deal with malcontents within their society. Whether this was by hubris ("Our society is perfect! Begone!"), ignorance ("Problem? What Problem!? Get Lost!") or simply an inability to fix the situation before it got out of hand probably wont be found out any time soon.

Thus Decepticons gather together and plot a way to end their malcontent. Given the nigh infinite lifespans of the Transformers, discontent can only grow over time as more and more malcontents find their way into society, stagnation breeds boredom and decadence and ultimately people grow further dissatisfied with the way things are run. Out of this growing pool of misfits comes a visionary leader, one whom has both the will and the initiative to forge a new path and create a new system.

Enter Megatron, whom unites these Decepticons under his leadership. He proposes a new system, one man ruling at the top for all time, a Cybertronian empire spanning many worlds, and power for anyone that dared to reach for it.

This new system becomes extremely attractive for even Autobots, since it is based more towards merit then noble birth. Anyone could become leader by simply usurping the previous leader and taking the reins.

Thus, although Decepticons are by their very nature Despotic and Dictatorial, their society is somewhat more dynamic than the Autobot republic. Both methodologies of social engineering have their inherent strengths and weaknesses. Autobot rule tends to favour peace and prosperity and the status quo, whilst decepticon rule favours opportunity, freedom and a manifest destiny for Cybertron.

Autobot rule is stagnant and affords little opportunity to anyone not of "Noble Birth", whilst Decepticon rule is anarchic and despotic.

All in all, both systems could work in theory, and thus leads to the perpetuity of the conflict on Cybertron in most continuities. Because both styles of governance can work and appeal to at least half of the available population at any one time, and given that enlightened democratic leadership often clashes with despotic manifest destiny, you get war, endless war for ages and ages to try to resolve the dilemma of which system and faction should rule Cybertron.

Best I end this here before I begin a dissertation of historical oligarchies and democracies >_>