The Energon Pub

As I toil away at finding time in my day to finish attaching the seemingly unending stickers of Fort Max and Trypticon I am drawn to Full-Tilt.



He looks good. He has the full purple of some of the most iconic Cons EG Cyclonus, Shockwave, Galvatron, Sometimes Soundwave and several others. The lone Cybertron Car altmode is also quite rare among the Decepticon Ranks. With a full chest faction symbol he could look just as iconic as any of his contemporaries.

So why doesn't he exist at all in Transformers media?? Outside of visual cameos and art relating to Trypticon, there is nothing about Full-Tilt, anywhere. His personality, goals, loyalties, rivalries etc No one has taken to time to explore or even scratch the surface of fleshing out this great looking Decepticon.

That's what this thread is about. Putting to the Forum questions, big and small, within Transformers and to discuss potential answers.

While mulling over the above, a second question that has baffled a fan that seriously jumped onto Transformers with The Movie:

What's the problem with Rodimus Prime?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:As I toil away at finding time in my day to finish attaching the seemingly unending stickers of Fort Max and Trypticon I am drawn to Full-Tilt.



He looks good. He has the full purple of some of the most iconic Cons EG Cyclonus, Shockwave, Galvatron, Sometimes Soundwave and several others. The lone Cybertron Car altmode is also quite rare among the Decepticon Ranks. With a full chest faction symbol he could look just as iconic as any of his contemporaries.

So why doesn't he exist at all in Transformers media?? Outside of visual cameos and art relating to Trypticon, there is nothing about Full-Tilt, anywhere. His personality, goals, loyalties, rivalries etc No one has taken to time to explore or even scratch the surface of fleshing out this great looking Decepticon.

That's what this thread is about. Putting to the Forum questions, big and small, within Transformers and to discuss potential answers.

Actually, the little dude is mentioned in some Japanese manga and i believe a video game.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:While mulling over the above, a second question that has baffled a fan that seriously jumped onto Transformers with The Movie:

What's the problem with Rodimus Prime?

Gonna open that 55-gallon drum of worms, huh? Well, I believe the standard answer is that he is not good enough by default, because he replaced Optimus Prime.

It's not my answer, because I prefer Rodimus over Optimus in G1, but about 90% of the fandom dismisses Rodimus on that basis alone. Had he been a character who didn't replace the most iconic character there ever was, but instead was just a stand-alone character, he might have fared better. As for the movie itself, the main reason he became leader was to sell the new wave of toys for season 3 of the cartoon. Maybe Hasbro underestimated just how attached people (especially kids) were to Optimus Prime. I wasn't one of them.

Rodimus Prime wrote:It's not my answer, because I prefer Rodimus over Optimus in G1, but about 90% of the fandom dismisses Rodimus on that basis alone. Had he been a character who didn't replace the most iconic character there ever was, but instead was just a stand-alone character, he might have fared better. As for the movie itself, the main reason he became leader was to sell the new wave of toys for season 3 of the cartoon. Maybe Hasbro underestimated just how attached people (especially kids) were to Optimus Prime. I wasn't one of them.

Basically this. We'd just watched our hero die, only to be replaced by this "young punk". Not only that, we saw the Matrix handed to Ultra Magnus, who we quickly learnt had all this experience, he was a veteran, but the Matrix chooses this young inexperienced character, who, I should add, got in between Optimus and Megatron and basically gave Megatron the distraction he needed to mortally wound Prime.

How could we NOT hate him?

Burn wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:It's not my answer, because I prefer Rodimus over Optimus in G1, but about 90% of the fandom dismisses Rodimus on that basis alone. Had he been a character who didn't replace the most iconic character there ever was, but instead was just a stand-alone character, he might have fared better. As for the movie itself, the main reason he became leader was to sell the new wave of toys for season 3 of the cartoon. Maybe Hasbro underestimated just how attached people (especially kids) were to Optimus Prime. I wasn't one of them.

Basically this. We'd just watched our hero die, only to be replaced by this "young punk". Not only that, we saw the Matrix handed to Ultra Magnus, who we quickly learnt had all this experience, he was a veteran, but the Matrix chooses this young inexperienced character, who, I should add, got in between Optimus and Megatron and basically gave Megatron the distraction he needed to mortally wound Prime.

How could we NOT hate him?

I hate (Cartoon) Rodimus Prime because he's a whiny *****.

I LOVE Hotrod. Like, to fanboy levels. He was badass, confident, and a natural. As a kid, I saw TFTM a million times, but never saw a single episode of Season 3. As an adult I obviously caught up, and I was shocked to see how the writers handled him. They straight up ruined what they built him up to be in the movie. Sure, there's "new leader learning the curve", but they took it too far.

I've never subscribed to the "Hotrod got Prime killed" thing. He coulda dodged the shots, shot first, ect. But they make it seem like G1 Optimus Prime is the be-all-end-all leader, and BW Primal sure proved that wrong. And the Primal template is what Rodimus Prime SHOULD have been. That's basically the prototype for watching a new leader successfully navigating said learning curve.

See, from my perspective, Everyone who died onscreen in The Movie got what was coming to them, especially Starscream!

At the end of the day Prime got himself killed. Because of his own hubris. Instead of gloating, monologuing over Megatron all he had to do was FINISH THE FIGHT. He didn't and because of that got what he deserved.

Rodimus Prime, sure his altmode was awful. The Winnebago of Doom was a bad idea from the outset, but he is always shown as the leader by the end of the Transformers story. Most typically he outlives Galvatron and succeeds Prime.
Generally, as Hot Rod or Rodimus, I feel he is written as a better, more well-rounded character than Optimus "God-Bot" Prime. The 'hate' seems ridiculous to me. Megatron was replaced by Galvatron, a fresh and better written character. To me, It's the same difference.

I look at IDWverse, for example, now with a whole book renamed
after Prime, fleshing out a character already far too overexposed and meanwhile Rodimus has been marginalised into a pseudo-Hot Rod personality and they refuse to call him "Prime", although through his Matrix exposure he should be.

Acesmcgee wrote:Actually, the little dude is mentioned in some Japanese manga and i believe a video game.

While that is nice, where is the Spotlight? Trypticon has been giving his own, somewhat bizarre, revival in IDWverse. Meanwhile the New Toy gives more emphasis to Full-Tilt's Headmaster than him?

To be fair, full tilt is only a Headmaster because of the line trypticon was released in. Any other line it wouldnt of happened.

Now the Rodimus thing, people above have already said it better. For the record I love hot rod, I just hated what they were doing with him in season 3. He faired much better (of sorts) in the Japanese headmasters series before quickly vanishing from that, ceding control of the autobots over to fortress.

I think Rodimus becoming a Prime in IDW is more complicated now that they started bringing back the original thirteen primes and making optimus the thirteenth prime aka the arisen

shajaki wrote:I've never subscribed to the "Hotrod got Prime killed" thing. He coulda dodged the shots, shot first, ect. But they make it seem like G1 Optimus Prime is the be-all-end-all leader, and BW Primal sure proved that wrong. And the Primal template is what Rodimus Prime SHOULD have been. That's basically the prototype for watching a new leader successfully navigating said learning curve.

I read this last night before going to bed, and I've been thinking about it since.

The "Hot Rod got Prime killed" belief. For me, this is a 30+ years belief, stemming from an impressionable 10 year old who had just watched his "hero" die. As a 10 year old, it was easy for me to hate Hot Rod. Optimus had won. Megatron was defeated, but then Hot Rod got involved and that set of a chain of events that lead to Optimus dieing.

But ... what if ... what if Hot Rod had NOT gotten involved? Megatron was going for a hand gun, the same hand gun he used to deliver fatal wounds. But had he reached the gun, would he still have been able to shoot Optimus? Or would Optimus have shot first, unhindered with no Hot Rod in the way.

These are the thought processes of a 10 year old. Of course Optimus would have shot, he would have shot the gun out of Megatrons hand and taken him prisoner. That's what our hero would have done! Instead, he died because Hot Rod got in the way and Optimus didn't want to harm him.

But I do agree, Rodimus has been given a terrible run, he's never been given the chance to establish himself as a leader.

Toy sales going down? Lets bring back Optimus!
Make him the (co-)captain in his own comic? Let's make him into an idiot!
Suddenly don't feel like carrying the Matrix? Give it up, go back to being Hot Rod, then get turned evil!

Energon at least gave him the status he deserved, make him a leader in his own right, but even then, don't have him hang around for too long.

Burn wrote:Energon at least gave him the status he deserved, make him a leader in his own right, but even then, don't have him hang around for too long.

I think this might be the first time I've heard any one say anything good about Energon...

ZeroWolf wrote:

Burn wrote:Energon at least gave him the status he deserved, make him a leader in his own right, but even then, don't have him hang around for too long.

I think this might be the first time I've heard any one say anything good about Energon...

The whole A/E/C trilogy was a whole bucket of hit and miss from cartoon to toy. Energon had some pretty good figures. I ain't touching the story though.

This may prove a somewhat controversial opinion, however with reference to the G1 cartoon specifically, I rather like how Rodimus Prime was written.

Optimus Prime was quite literally a purpose built leader, of whom little was seen between his creation and the point that the G1 cartoon begins. As such, any doubts and misgivings he had prior to fully maturing into the Optimus we all know and love are unknown and a comparison of Optimus' early days of leadership to Rodimus' are difficult.

Hot Rod on the other hand started his day with a pleasant fishing trip before witnessing the death of his hero, almost certainly leading to some long term guilt issues whether he was culpable or not. He was then forced to rapidly mature beyond his care free persona, culminating in him being picked by a force he cannot fully understand to lead a group, some of whom probably harbour some resentment over not being picked themselves to lead and indeed over the whole Optimus incident. Oh and at some point somebody has probably told him that a load of his friends were massacred on a shuttle.

The above would be enough to send most into therapy, however Rodimus Prime has then found himself responsible for peace, not just on Earth but on a galactic scale, which is probably quite stressful.

Given the above, it would make sense for him to have the odd meltdown, to want to be free of a responsibility he never asked for. The fact that even when he has a tantrum, sulks, whines or loses the matrix, he pushes through the issue and fixes the problem, even if only temporarily.

If it were not for these flaws, the guilt, self doubt and resentment, in my opinion he would not be a Transformer, but instead simply a robot.


Also, I like Full Tilt, he is very purple!

Burn wrote:But ... what if ... what if Hot Rod had NOT gotten involved?

I've wondered that too. Honestly, I don't think it would have changed much. Breaking this down like a CSI investigation seems silly, but I'm doing it in my head so what the hell
Megatron is crawling toward Prime, both blah'ing, picks up the gun, then turns away as Hotrod says "no ya don't". Prime could have shot him, or the gun out of his hand at that moment. And if Hotrod wasn't there, I bet they'd have just both shot each other, both receiving "death blows" and eventually succumbing after the retreat. Or because Prime would rather talk, Megs would have gotten the drop on him and shot him up anyways. Any which way, I see Prime dying.

Burn wrote:Energon at least gave him the status he deserved, make him a leader in his own right, but even then, don't have him hang around for too long.

Which was one of my only motivators to watch AEC... but bleh

Yankee0 wrote:If it were not for these flaws, the guilt, self doubt and resentment

The reason I don't buy this, is that if this was all caused by his guilt over Prime, then why did he show NO SIGNS of this in the movie? That's when it all happened, and he immediately rises to every occasion and kicks some ass. Fast forward to Season 3, and this is what we get:

shajaki wrote:The reason I don't buy this, is that if this was all caused by his guilt over Prime, then why did he show NO SIGNS of this in the movie? That's when it all happened, and he immediately rises to every occasion and kicks some ass. Fast forward to Season 3, and this is what we get:

A valid point.

My personal thoughts would be that it was a case of him having to repress all of this until the matter of a certain planet eating transformer was dealt with, only having time to dwell on what had occurred after the situation calmed down somewhat.

Or it could be that TFTM was apparently heavily edited, with specific scenes regarding this very issue (and indeed at least one very different plot) being lost in the making, and the writers having to introduce such issues in the following season instead...

Yankee0 wrote:A valid point.

My personal thoughts would be that it was a case of him having to repress all of this until the matter of a certain planet eating transformer was dealt with, only having time to dwell on what had occurred after the situation calmed down somewhat.

Or it could be that TFTM was apparently heavily edited, with specific scenes regarding this very issue (and indeed at least one very different plot) being lost in the making, and the writers having to introduce such issues in the following season instead...

So Hotrod was in shock, and post movie it wore off? Not a bad argument, but I think it's all a stretching explanation for poor writing. JMO of course.

shajaki wrote: So Hotrod was in shock, and post movie it wore off? Not a bad argument, but I think it's all a stretching explanation for poor writing. JMO of course.

Just the little fan theory I tell myself because it makes Rodimus Prime a bit of a deeper character, more a tragic hero than a whiney so-and-so. But as you say, it cooooould just be poor writing...

Let me just add ... we're trying to add depth to characters from an 80's cartoon.

And 80's cartoon.

The ones that were nothing more than extra long advertisements.

There's something seriously not right with all of us.

Oh come on Burn, there was depth. Like that one time when the Autobots did that one thing, you know that heroic one. And then the Decepticons did that evil thing. Ah, great times.
As for Roddy Rodimus Piper, I loved the movie version, and had an issue with the episodic one. I always felt that I couldn't use that toy if I didn't own at least Ultra to support him. Thankfully most of my post movie TFs were combiner or G2.

Burn wrote:The ones that were nothing more than extra long advertisements.

I always find this a strange descriptive. I mean where might we find the cartoons that aren't adverts for toys, in any era?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Burn wrote:The ones that were nothing more than extra long advertisements.

I always find this a strange descriptive. I mean where might we find the cartoons that aren't adverts for toys, in any era?

The 80's toys get that sort of flack more because that was when the new laws for advertising toys to kids was introduced. It was even touched on in "The Toys that Made Us".

That being said, there's been cartoons over the years (take Nickelodeon ones for example) that don't have a, or it isn't major, toy line to go along with it.

Yes but adult hindsight aside, Action based cartoons predominantly always revolve around a toyline. Even the short lived shows such as Bravestarr, Visionaries, Mighty Max, Skeleton Warriors etc had 95% of their experience available to recreate in plastic.

shajaki wrote:I bet they'd have just both shot each other, both receiving "death blows" and eventually succumbing after the retreat.

I have one small thing to say about this. In the movie, because Prime didn't have a shot, Megatron shot him 3 or 4 times. If they exchanged shots, is it plausible that each was shot only once, causing them to lose their weapons, at which point the others interfered and the'Cons retreated just the same, without Megatron receiving the final blow from Prime that knocked him off the top of the Autobot City ruins they were on? And Prime would have gotten only one shot from the suddenly-deadly purple gun, which wouldn't have caused as much damage as 3 or 4 shots. Would both of them still became what what they became?

Rodimus Prime wrote:suddenly-deadly purple gun

See, now that is something that has always bothered me. Not that it came outta nowhere, but that it sounded the same, and was seemingly as powerful as his fusion cannon.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Yes but adult hindsight aside, Action based cartoons predominantly always revolve around a toyline. Even the short lived shows such as Bravestarr, Visionaries, Mighty Max, Skeleton Warriors etc had 95% of their experience available to recreate in plastic.

The key is which came first, the toys or the cartoon. In G1 case the cartoon was created for the toys. Since the eighties though there has always been a joint effort with these things launching everything as a multimedia offensive in the battle for kids/parents/collectors money. Still I don't see why such a description is baffling as it's a fact. This is true about every transformers cartoon to be fair.