The Energon Pub

I've been watching G1 for a while and I've noticed that the Autobots are more prone to conforntation rather than the Decepticons?

Is it just me, or are there other out there who think the same thing?

You mean like when the Decepticons openly attack the humans, then the Autobots fight to defend them?

Yep, those damn Autobots are some vicious bastards.

Shadowman wrote:You mean like when the Decepticons openly attack the humans, then the Autobots fight to defend them?

Yep, those damn Autobots are some vicious bastards.

The Decepticons never really attack humans for no reason, they just steal energy and get sidetracked by the fleshlings....

But the Autbots will use any reason to kick DeceptiKan...

The Decepticons just want the freedom to do as they choose instead of being forced to follow the Autobots choking morality code, especially considering that the 'bots only response to this is a guns blazing, building wrecking, "We must fight to the death!" mentality.

Nice 'peaceful' way of settling a despute isnt it?

Big_yellow_glasses wrote:I've been watching G1 for a while and I've noticed that the Autobots are more prone to conforntation rather than the Decepticons?

Is it just me, or are there other out there who think the same thing?

I have felt that for a long time. The decepticons will use humans as a diversion. But for the most part they come in to collect energy to survive. The speak of energy conservation and the Autobots frequently come in to prevent them from collecting energy...fuel...food.

A hungry person will do what they need.

Also as Psychout said, the cons want the freedom to do what they want, without the morality codes that prevent them form enjoying like. Think of it as how we feel about toy regulations, what we can or can't have because... "it might hurt a stupid person"

The preach freedom is the right of all sentient beings, but they themselves prevent the sentient beings, Decepticons, from having freedom. "They must be stopped, no matter the cost."

Autobots shunted the Decepticons into a concentration camp wthout fuel or or means(charr) while they themselves took over cybertron, which was also the home world of the Decepticons.

To be honest, Starscream only sealed the entrance way to the ark when the Decepticons left. The cons thought the bots were dead. The cons decided to collect energy and Go home. They wanted to go home. It was Cliffjumper who fired the first shot on the cons in G1.

As far as I see it, the G1 Series is more like a propganda reel that is supposed to make the cons look bad. If the Autobots were so close to extinction, they would not have been capable of pushing the decepticons(who were so numerous) back to deathcamps.

Yep, I got an impression teh Autobots wanted to wipe out the Decepticons rather than find a real peaceable solution. To me the forced eradicaiton of a race is morally wrong and genocide.

So, I feel the same way BYG. I do feel that the bots forced confrontation more often than they should have.

i have read an interestin fanfic from Armada , proving that same point..

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2971215/1/

i liked this fanfic, it gives Megatron a more human side, like Spartacus. If they ever made the deceptcons in the series or comics, instead of the cliche badguys like this one, i would glady choose them over the autbots

I see your points ,but there are a few comments I would like to make.

1. The Autobots at the beginning of G1 had been fighting the Decepticons for a LONG time (millions? of years). They had probally long since gotten past the whole lets give them a chance. Because I'm sorry most of the Decepticons were crazy and violent, many of the lower ranked members were being held back by the others.

2. In more than meets and eye, yes the Decepticons were "just wanting to go home" with enough energon to power them and Cybertron to complete Megatron's stated goal of turning Cybertron into a warworld type place to take over anything they ran across.

3. There is freedom to do whatever you want and there is freedom to doing what you want as long as does not harm another. Autobots want the second the Decepticons want the first.

4.G1 Decepticons rarely just attack humans because humans are barely worth noticeing to them, not for any altruistic reasons.

5. The Autobots were able to take over Cybertron and turn the tide of the war because Unicron destroyed alot of Decepticons when he attacked Cybertron. It wasn't really given much screen time but it is a reasonable assumption. Another reason is the Autobot allience with the Junkions. Another race, how many different peoples do the Autobots ally themselves with for the long term and don't betray them 2 , 3? The Decepticons? 1, 2? And that's if you count binary bonded people which aren't a large percentage of thier race.
On another note, how many races did the 2 groups enslave?

6. About stealing food. The Decepticons weren't just stealing food they were stealing enough to fuel a war.

7. Char wasn't a concentration or a death camp. The Decepticons came and went as they pleased and went there themselves. It was just the armpit that they regrouped on, and since there were no native lifeforms /large energy reserves the Autobots weren't willing to take the losses to wipe them out. And because IMO that at least some of the Autobots were hopeing for a peaceful (non genocidal) end to the war.

zorian wrote:I see your points ,but there are a few comments I would like to make.

1. The Autobots at the beginning of G1 had been fighting the Decepticons for a LONG time (millions? of years). They had probally long since gotten past the whole lets give them a chance. Because I'm sorry most of the Decepticons were crazy and violent, many of the lower ranked members were being held back by the others.

2. In more than meets and eye, yes the Decepticons were "just wanting to go home" with enough energon to power them and Cybertron to complete Megatron's stated goal of turning Cybertron into a warworld type place to take over anything they ran across.

3. There is freedom to do whatever you want and there is freedom to doing what you want as long as does not harm another. Autobots want the second the Decepticons want the first.

4.G1 Decepticons rarely just attack humans because humans are barely worth noticeing to them, not for any altruistic reasons.

5. The Autobots were able to take over Cybertron and turn the tide of the war because Unicron destroyed alot of Decepticons when he attacked Cybertron. It wasn't really given much screen time but it is a reasonable assumption. Another reason is the Autobot allience with the Junkions. Another race, how many different peoples do the Autobots ally themselves with for the long term and don't betray them 2 , 3? The Decepticons? 1, 2? And that's if you count binary bonded people which aren't a large percentage of thier race.
On another note, how many races did the 2 groups enslave?

6. About stealing food. The Decepticons weren't just stealing food they were stealing enough to fuel a war.

7. Char wasn't a concentration or a death camp. The Decepticons came and went as they pleased and went there themselves. It was just the armpit that they regrouped on, and since there were no native lifeforms /large energy reserves the Autobots weren't willing to take the losses to wipe them out. And because IMO that at least some of the Autobots were hopeing for a peaceful (non genocidal) end to the war.

Good point, if it wasn't for Prime, most of the Autobots would wage full-blow war on our planet, instead of protecting humans.(with the exception of Bumblebee and a few others)

What always got me...it niggles me still is the autobots at the end of MTMTE.

All the world leaders agreed to fuel their ship so that they may return to cybertron...But they never did. I just wonder why the bots chose to stay and if they did stay, did they return the fuel that was given to them?

But really if I recall in Megatron's Master Plan, the Autobots were quick to turn, at least in mind, against the "ungrateful" humans.

I agree with the point that the humans are of no to very little interest to the Decepticons. We are, to their standards, very primitive creatures. Decepticons would not waste their time and energy attacking them if they didn't have anything they needed.

Sort of like us with cattle and farm animals. For the most part we leave them alone, unless we want steaks or chops. Probably a bad example...but hey, that's me.

The Decepticons would be attacked no matter what they were doing. they could be having a picknic in the park and the Autobots would come and kick over thier fuel and harass them. Okay, in microbots the autobots were removing the heart of cybertron from megatron, essentially doing him a favour. And the Con party was kind of funny

As for charr, I meant from where they barely had the energy to walk and were fighting over scraps. They were not allowed near their homeworld.

Till all are one.

That sounds like the Autobots will fight until every last decepticon either dies or conforms to what the autobots have decided is the right way.

anyway.

Big_yellow_glasses wrote:

zorian wrote:

Good point, if it wasn't for Prime, most of the Autobots would wage full-blow war on our planet, instead of protecting humans.(with the exception of Bumblebee and a few others)

I not certain how you interputed what I said as support for this comment?

The best I can come up with is this
"And because IMO that at least some of the Autobots were hopeing for a peaceful (non genocidal) end to the war."

What I mean by this is I believe some of the Autobots still think that the war could end without genocide ,not that I think that I think most of the Autobots want genocide.


In Megatron's Master Plan the Autobots were upset because it took nothing for humanity to be convinced that the Decepticons were being framed. I know I would be upset if I had risked my life for someone and they turned on me that easily.

The Decepticon "picnic" that you refer to was a (premature) victory party. After they recovered from it the Decepticons were going to wipe out the Autobots.

It has been a long time since I have seen 3rd season (basically since it first aired) ,but I don't remember Char being as bad as you are portraiting it. I remember that it had enough energy sources for the Decepticons to live ,but not enough to support thier continueing war.

Wasn't there a 3rd season ep. in which a group of Autobots (remember the cartoon made all Cybertronians into Autobots or Decepticons) who had escaped Cybertron early in the war and just wanted to be left alone and the Decepticons showed up and tried to enslave them?

the humans and human structures are just collateral damage, hard to avoid when they tend to swarm everywhere

Psychout wrote:The Decepticons just want the freedom to do as they choose instead of being forced to follow the Autobots choking morality code, especially considering that the 'bots only response to this is a guns blazing, building wrecking, "We must fight to the death!" mentality.

Nice 'peaceful' way of settling a despute isnt it?

I tell you what.

Try and walk into my home and steal my TV. Exercise your freedom to steal my TV.

That kind of morality code will net you a free bullet between the eyes as a parting gift to go along with the TV.

Moral relitivism works both ways.

From what I remember as a kid, wasn't purpose of the Ark an autobot attempt at trying to get away from cybertron, because the decepticons were waging a civil war on cybertron, and winning? Thats when the Nemesis (Decepticon ship) boarded the Ark.

It just so happened to be that where they went down (Earth), had alot of raw materials and natural sources of energy that the Decepticons could refine into energon (and more than enough to wage war on whatever and wherever they wanted to.)

Also don't forget, the cybertronian civil wars started because the decepticons were trying to enslave cybertron and its citizens by either killing them, enlisting them, or reprogramming them (ala the Constructicons). I'll give you another example of their evils, that one episode where we meet optimus before he is an autobot (orion pax), he's a simple factory worker, and then blam decepticons attack the factory, and tried killing or recruiting (or reprogramming) the workers there. If someone tried to kill you, and enslave you I think you'd fight back with little mercy, especially when this war has gone on for several millions of years.

And how about the decepticons using dr. Archievil's device to mind control humans and basically use them as weapons against the autobots, because Megatron knew the autobots couldn't fight back. If that doesn't qualify the Decepticons as evil, then you might as well call Hitler, mother Theresa.

Sure you can debate who is actually the evil group here, but unless those who support the decepticons as being "the good guys" can give some true concrete evidence, rather than mud slinging the autobots, then you won't win.

You can say the same for the Autobots, unless you have concrete evidence that they are infact good, then you also won't win. I think in this case it's a draw.

The Decepticons and The Autobots may not survive in a mingled society. But the Decepticons are more like a different country with a different religious, moral, social and ethical beleif systems. With that said, it is immorral for any group to attempt to change the other group because they feel it is wrong. If a group decides to move into a country, ie a con joining bots, he or she must obide by their laws.

Good and evil solely depends on what side of the fence you stand on. very few people will see themselves as a bad guy. The Decepticons would not see themselves as the bad guys. They believe they are right and correct in their beliefs. They see the Autobots as the bad guys because they challenge their beliefs. And visa versa.

SO in essence the argument is no win. There is No right answer.

zorian wrote:

Big_yellow_glasses wrote:

zorian wrote:

Good point, if it wasn't for Prime, most of the Autobots would wage full-blow war on our planet, instead of protecting humans.(with the exception of Bumblebee and a few others)

I not certain how you interputed what I said as support for this comment?

The best I can come up with is this
"And because IMO that at least some of the Autobots were hopeing for a peaceful (non genocidal) end to the war."

What I mean by this is I believe some of the Autobots still think that the war could end without genocide ,not that I think that I think most of the Autobots want genocide.


In Megatron's Master Plan the Autobots were upset because it took nothing for humanity to be convinced that the Decepticons were being framed. I know I would be upset if I had risked my life for someone and they turned on me that easily.

The Decepticon "picnic" that you refer to was a (premature) victory party. After they recovered from it the Decepticons were going to wipe out the Autobots.

It has been a long time since I have seen 3rd season (basically since it first aired) ,but I don't remember Char being as bad as you are portraiting it. I remember that it had enough energy sources for the Decepticons to live ,but not enough to support thier continueing war.

Wasn't there a 3rd season ep. in which a group of Autobots (remember the cartoon made all Cybertronians into Autobots or Decepticons) who had escaped Cybertron early in the war and just wanted to be left alone and the Decepticons showed up and tried to enslave them?

When we saw someone reyturn from off world, Astrotrain, he had scraps of Energon with him and was jumped, and stuck in mid transformation, by legions of half straved (at best) Decepticons. They were barely alive. When Rodimus and Grimlock were spying on them he looked at them and realized what he helped do to them in exiling them, he basically realized he left them to die.

Sunstar wrote:You can say the same for the Autobots, unless you have concrete evidence that they are infact good, then you also won't win. I think in this case it's a draw.

The Decepticons and The Autobots may not survive in a mingled society. But the Decepticons are more like a different country with a different religious, moral, social and ethical beleif systems. With that said, it is immorral for any group to attempt to change the other group because they feel it is wrong. If a group decides to move into a country, ie a con joining bots, he or she must obide by their laws.

Good and evil solely depends on what side of the fence you stand on. very few people will see themselves as a bad guy. The Decepticons would not see themselves as the bad guys. They believe they are right and correct in their beliefs. They see the Autobots as the bad guys because they challenge their beliefs. And visa versa.

SO in essence the argument is no win. There is No right answer.

yes because invading and then enslaving others who don't agree with you can mean you're not a bad guy.

For christs sake, the autobots didn't try to kill humans or use them as weapons against the other faction. And when megatron was causing problems on Earth through his manipulations of corrupt officials (Mr. Berger), the autobots stopped disaster from happening.

I find it downright funny you're trying to argue my point against me by saying no side is right.

Slavery, invasions, mind control, and a total disregard for living things doesn't make you a good guy, that makes you a bad guy. All of these things the Decepticons have done, while the autobots have not.

I don't wish to point fingers here, but my guess is (because you seem to have a fascination with starscream), is that you could be biased for the decepticon side. however, thats not what this is about. This is about whether or not the Decepticons are really the bad guys, and unfortunately, they have alot of "bad" things going for them and to be honest little to no "good" qualities to them. When have they stopped gravity of cybertron from tearing apart the Earth? Never, and infact they were the ones who caused this. When did they prevent the opposing faction from turning everything organic into metal using an ancient relic? Never, again they were responsible for this problem.

this brings me to my next set of points:

-they attacked "civilians" on cybertron who had nothing to do with the war.
-they started the civil war on cybertron by forcing their "politics" and "laws" (or lack thereof) on all cybertronian inhabitants, basically enslaving or killing off those that did not agree with them.
-I have never once in any form of fiction seen a Decepticon try to make peace with the autobots, except for instances when both sides were threatened by something much more destructive than their war would ever be (unicron, the hate plague {when prime finally obliterated it}) Where as prime fought for the safety of human kind, even putting himself in harms way (as did other autobots in such situations.)

sure you could try to argue that the collateral damage from autobot's actions are not a positive thing, but the exact same could be said about the mayhem and damage the decepticons have done in the process. Seriously, the stunticons were basically made to destroy things, and to counter the Autobot's ground superiority. especially because almost 100% of that fighting is between an autobot and decepticon, so in that sense they are equally responsible for that damage, but go back to your dvds and watch what the scenarios were for that damage to happen, most of the time it has to do with decepticons stealing energy for making energon, or unfolding some plot to eradicate optimus prime and the others. Heres another thing, notice how so many of the weaponry and tech the autobots use are non-lethal. Such as Ironhide's ability with fluids, or Jazz's grapling hook and sonicbooms (caused from his speakers), I think a few of them even had weapons that were similar to emp's which disabled the con's weaponry and gadgets.

^^^ plus in the movie, how many autobots did you see die compared to how many decepticons actually died, rather than injured or disabled.

I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to come up with something to refute my claims if you truly want to turn my arguement into something that defends both sides as being good and bad.

I learned long ago not to get into arguments and debates. I find it's a huge waste of energy, especially since I am low on energy myself these days and trying to get important tasks done. I won't change my mind, decepticon mentality, and I am not interested in changing yours, autobot mentality. So as my rule, I agree to disagree. Also I cannot get involved in what I would easily apply to a RL situation. A great evil if I have seen one, which many folk are quite happy with. So I stand where I left off. Do not instigate further debate with me.

Sunstar wrote:I learned long ago not to get into arguments and debates. I find it's a huge waste of energy, especially since I am low on energy myself these days and trying to get important tasks done. I won't change my mind, decepticon mentality, and I am not interested in changing yours, autobot mentality. So as my rule, I agree to disagree. Also I cannot get involved in what I would easily apply to a RL situation. A great evil if I have seen one, which many folk are quite happy with. So I stand where I left off. Do not instigate further debate with me.

I'm not trying to, just having a healthy (non-mean-spirited) debate. nothing more, nothing less.

I think the autobots ARE more aggressiver towards the decepticons then vice versa. Thats only becuause the Decepticons are too busy being energy whores! Come here you sexy hyrdo dam!

gigtronicdeth wrote:I think the autobots ARE more aggressiver towards the decepticons then vice versa. Thats only becuause the Decepticons are too busy being energy whores! Come here you sexy hyrdo dam!

"Sorry Megatron, this facility doesn't output on the first date."

I believe that Decepticon ideals were lost over the years. Liege Maximo and Jhiaxus(too name a few) only wanted freedom from the monotonous servitude of Primus. As the years went on leaders like Megatron corrupted the Decepticon ranks and truly started the Great War...