The Energon Pub

In the G1 Universe, if you were the bearer of the Matrix you had to change your name to
....mus Prime. (e.g- Hot Rod- Rodimus Prime)

But lets say Megatron had the Matrix.
What would his name be?
Tronimus Prime? Megamus Prime?


The Instructions are simple.
Type in a Transfrormer's name (doesnt have to be in G1)
And think of A "Prime" name for them.

ENJOY!

Evilmu...

Wait, someone is already using that.

So how about LaserBeamus Prime

Jazzimus Prime
Huffimus Prime
Bumblemus Prime

Screamimus Prime
Crackimus Prime
Abominusimus Prime

Just to name a few...

Wheelimus Prime

Uber Galvatron wrote:In the G1 Universe, if you were the bearer of the Matrix you had to change your name to
....mus Prime. (e.g- Hot Rod- Rodimus Prime)

Actully Hot Rod was the ONLY Matrix Bearer to take on the -imus Prime name. Optimus Prime allready had that name before getting the Matrix. He was rebuilt by Alpha Trion and named that not by the Matrix. And depending on comic or Toon variations either Sentinel Prime or Alpha Trion passed the Matrix to Optimus. Either way there's no -imus sufix on the name and Alpha Trion isn't even a Prime.

Jesus Prime.

That's just plain fecking weird.

The whole -us or -imus suffix isn't a necessity at all. Nova Prime, Sentinel Prime, Vector Prime... All canon.

Yeah, Jesus Prime is weird. Seriously, I mean, what nut comes up with that? Fecking stupid is what it is.

Predaprince wrote:Wheelimus Prime

hey!!!!!!!

and trackimus prime

Ratchetimus Prime
Defensorimus Prime
SunSTREAKERimus Prime
Soundwaveimus Prime

Corrupted Rodimus prime
sharkticon-imus prime
wheelimus prime-imus prime
primus-imus prime

Saber Prime wrote:Actully Hot Rod was the ONLY Matrix Bearer to take on the -imus Prime name. Optimus Prime allready had that name before getting the Matrix. He was rebuilt by Alpha Trion and named that not by the Matrix. And depending on comic or Toon variations either Sentinel Prime or Alpha Trion passed the Matrix to Optimus. Either way there's no -imus sufix on the name and Alpha Trion isn't even a Prime.

"Actually" in the G1 toon we really dont know how "Optimus Prime" got the name nor do we really know by what meens did Alpha Trion effect the repairs to Orion Pax.

We also dont know when Optimus got the Matrix in the first place.He gould have gotten it the very day he was rebuilt by Alpha Trion.

Its possible that all Alpha did was place the Matrix into Orion and the Matrix could have done the rest.

Its also possible that Alpha named Optimus Prime after the previous Matrix bearer's.As you said Alpha himself was not a Prime....he wasnt even really a bearer of the Matrix but was more of a guardian...And we never learned the names of any of the previous Matrix bearer's.

What we do know from the G1 toon is that the two Autobot leaders and bearer's of the Matrix both had the name Prime.

...PRIME DESTRUCTION!!!

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:Actully Hot Rod was the ONLY Matrix Bearer to take on the -imus Prime name. Optimus Prime allready had that name before getting the Matrix. He was rebuilt by Alpha Trion and named that not by the Matrix. And depending on comic or Toon variations either Sentinel Prime or Alpha Trion passed the Matrix to Optimus. Either way there's no -imus sufix on the name and Alpha Trion isn't even a Prime.

"Actually" in the G1 toon we really dont know how "Optimus Prime" got the name nor do we really know by what meens did Alpha Trion effect the repairs to Orion Pax.

We also dont know when Optimus got the Matrix in the first place.He gould have gotten it the very day he was rebuilt by Alpha Trion.

Its possible that all Alpha did was place the Matrix into Orion and the Matrix could have done the rest.

Its also possible that Alpha named Optimus Prime after the previous Matrix bearer's.As you said Alpha himself was not a Prime....he wasnt even really a bearer of the Matrix but was more of a guardian...And we never learned the names of any of the previous Matrix bearer's.

What we do know from the G1 toon is that the two Autobot leaders and bearer's of the Matrix both had the name Prime.

My belief is that the -imus and Prime come from the name of Primus as seen as statement that they are a servant of Primus.

Optimus Prime - the Opt part might be just that. The word 'opt' means choose.

Perhaps, when A-3 rebuilt Orion Pax he stated to him that he will now choose to fight Megatron and the Decepticons as a servant of Primus. So he choose to be a servant of Primus. So Opt-imus Prime --> Optimus Prime.

We all know how Rodimus Prime gets his name. Rod-imus Prime.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:Actully Hot Rod was the ONLY Matrix Bearer to take on the -imus Prime name. Optimus Prime allready had that name before getting the Matrix. He was rebuilt by Alpha Trion and named that not by the Matrix. And depending on comic or Toon variations either Sentinel Prime or Alpha Trion passed the Matrix to Optimus. Either way there's no -imus sufix on the name and Alpha Trion isn't even a Prime.

"Actually" in the G1 toon we really dont know how "Optimus Prime" got the name nor do we really know by what meens did Alpha Trion effect the repairs to Orion Pax.

We also dont know when Optimus got the Matrix in the first place.He gould have gotten it the very day he was rebuilt by Alpha Trion.

Its possible that all Alpha did was place the Matrix into Orion and the Matrix could have done the rest.

Its also possible that Alpha named Optimus Prime after the previous Matrix bearer's.As you said Alpha himself was not a Prime....he wasnt even really a bearer of the Matrix but was more of a guardian...And we never learned the names of any of the previous Matrix bearer's.

What we do know from the G1 toon is that the two Autobot leaders and bearer's of the Matrix both had the name Prime.

There is one thing that completly debunks that therie. When the Matrix is removed from Rodimus Prime he turns back into Hot Rod. Optimus Prime however is Optimus Prime with or without the Matrix so we know it's not the Matrix that turns him into a Prime.

While previous Matrix Bearers in the toon remain unnamed the comics do name quite a few and again non of them share the -imus sufix. They don't even allways share the Prime SUFIX but they useually do have "Prime" or some varriation of it in their names. I belive there's at least 2 who have Prime as a PREFIX to their name.

Saber Prime wrote:There is one thing that completly debunks that therie. When the Matrix is removed from Rodimus Prime he turns back into Hot Rod. Optimus Prime however is Optimus Prime with or without the Matrix so we know it's not the Matrix that turns him into a Prime.

That little fact proves nothing.Optimus Prime's body was dissasempled and redesigned and rebuilt rebuilt again over 4 million years later by Teletran 1.

That prossus may have made it impossible for his body to revert to its previous apperance.Not to mention all the times he had to be repaired and parts replaced after battle.You cant really expect all the replacement parts to revert to an appearance they never held.

Optimus Prime in the G1 Marvel comics lost the Matrix once or twice and he never changed forms.But we really dont know if that OP was ever changed by the Matrix.

The Optimus Prime of Dreamwaves G1 comics was once called "Optronix" he was a a data archivist and when he was givven the Matrix he was transformered into Optimus Prime.

Later in the serries when the Matrix was removed by Shockwave Optimus Prime did not revert to his "Optronix" appearance. [Which completly debunks your debunking theory]

The fact that Rodimus reverts when the Matrix is removed proves nothing.

Rodimus's reversion to the Hot Rod appearance could have been the result of him not really being the one destined to carry the Matrix.

It could also be because he did not retain the Matrix long enough for the change to be preminate.

So like I said before theres no proof that it was not the Matrix that changed Orion into Optimus.Nor is there any proof that it was.You can compair "Rodimus's reversion to his original form when the Matrix was removed to Optimus not reverting because both their situations are completely different.

Saber Prime wrote:While previous Matrix Bearers in the toon remain unnamed the comics do name quite a few and again non of them share the -imus sufix. They don't even allways share the Prime SUFIX but they useually do have "Prime" or some varriation of it in their names. I belive there's at least 2 who have Prime as a PREFIX to their name.

In the Marvel G1 comice the bearer's of the Matrix were: [at least the ones I can remember]

Prima
Prime Nova
Sentinel Prime
Optimus Prime
Rodimus Prime

Dreamwave G1 Comics bearers were:

Alpha Prime
Guardian Prime
Sentinel Prime
Optimus Prime
And we can assume Rodimus Prime would have been there too. [DW went out of Business before it reached that point]

IDW's G1 comics so far ha shown us.

Nova Prime
Sentinel Prime
Optimus Prime

All but one bearer from the different TF comics had the name "Prime" as ether a prefix or a sufix.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:That little fact proves nothing.Optimus Prime's body was dissasempled and redesigned and rebuilt rebuilt again over 4 million years later by Teletran 1.

He was never "rebuilt" by Teletran 1, he was modified, there's a difference.

That prossus may have made it impossible for his body to revert to its previous apperance.Not to mention all the times he had to be repaired and parts replaced after battle.You cant really expect all the replacement parts to revert to an appearance they never held.

True I don't, but considering in another argument you used the verry same argument to exsplain why Optimus Primal reverted to his original form in Beast Machines when that body never had that form.

If Primal can revert to his original form when he has an entirely new body, why not Optimus with just a few parts replaced?

The Optimus Prime of Dreamwaves G1 comics was once called "Optronix" he was a a data archivist and when he was givven the Matrix he was transformered into Optimus Prime.

Later in the serries when the Matrix was removed by Shockwave Optimus Prime did not revert to his "Optronix" appearance. [Which completly debunks your debunking theory]

I may be mistaken but from what I've seen of Optronix/Optimus Prime he didn't even change forms, just his name. The pictures I've seen of Optronix he allready looks like Optimus Prime so there really isn't anything for him to revert back to.

Of course I've only seen the robot modes and even Hot Rod and Rodimus look verry much alike in robot mode so maybe the differences are too small that I just didn't notice.

On the other hand, sence he was Optronix not Orian Pax the comparison really can't be made with the cartoon counterpart. It still might be possible, at least for the toon if not the comics, that the only reason Optimus Prime doesn't change back into Orian Pax is because he was rebuilt into Optimus by Alpha Trion not modified by the Matrix like Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime was.

Rodimus's reversion to the Hot Rod appearance could have been the result of him not really being the one destined to carry the Matrix.

You can allso look at it another way. Hot Rod really is the only KNOWN Transformer to be upgraded by the Matrix. The reason he was upgraded when no one else was could be exactly the oppisite, he IS the one destined to carrey the Matrix.

All of this, what you just said in the quote, and what I just said, is of course just speculation based on what we know about the Matrix, which isn't much.

It could also be because he did not retain the Matrix long enough for the change to be preminate.

I've had that therie too and I still belive that may verry well be a possibility. Hey look, we actully agree on something.

So like I said before theres no proof that it was not the Matrix that changed Orion into Optimus.Nor is there any proof that it was.You can compair "Rodimus's reversion to his original form when the Matrix was removed to Optimus not reverting because both their situations are completely different.

No idea what you just said there. That last part was kind of a run on sentence. (And I've probly been guilty of the same thing before.)

In the Marvel G1 comice the bearer's of the Matrix were: [at least the ones I can remember]

Prima
Prime Nova
Sentinel Prime
Optimus Prime
Rodimus Prime

Dreamwave G1 Comics bearers were:

Alpha Prime
Guardian Prime
Sentinel Prime
Optimus Prime
And we can assume Rodimus Prime would have been there too. [DW went out of Business before it reached that point]

IDW's G1 comics so far ha shown us.

Nova Prime
Sentinel Prime
Optimus Prime

All but one bearer from the different TF comics had the name "Prime" as ether a prefix or a sufix.

I could get a list off Wiki of all the known Matrix Bearers but there's really no point. The only thing I was trying to bring up is that it's not entirely nessisary for a Matrix Bearer to have an -imus Prime sufix on their name and that point has been made without listing everyone.

Saber Prime wrote: He was never "rebuilt" by Teletran 1, he was modified, there's a difference.

Considering the extent of the "Modifing" done to characters like Bumble Bee,Wheeljack,Jazz and the seekers it could very well be called rebuilding but I'll conseed that it was a poor choise of wording on my part.

But my point is that Optimus's modifecation could have rendered his "Prime" appearance to be his normal appearance and removing may not have had a effect on it.

Saber Prime wrote: True I don't, but considering in another argument you used the verry same argument to exsplain why Optimus Primal reverted to his original form in Beast Machines when that body never had that form.

What I said in that debate is that I believe that the Spark retain information on its host bodies appearance because it was the only explanation for what happened to Primal in Beast Machines.

None of the other possible explanations fited the issue.

Saber Prime wrote:If Primal can revert to his original form when he has an entirely new body, why not Optimus with just a few parts replaced?

Well Prime had more then a few replacment parts as you just pointed out.He was heavily modified.

Further more the properties of a G1 Spark are different then those of the Sparks of those from the Beast Era.

Maximal experimented on Sparks over the years and its safe to assume that their were improvements made over the years.

And there werent really "Sparks" in the G1 toon.....even the closest thing had different properties.

And I also said in that debate that it was the "Virus" that caused the change in Primals body not the info stored in the spark....but it was the stored info that allowed the change to take place.

So in Optimus Prime's case there would be no out side force causing a change in his body.

Removing the Matrix would have no effect because his body was modified and there was nothing causeing a revertion to his older body like Primal had when he was infected with the virus.

Saber Prime wrote:I may be mistaken but from what I've seen of Optronix/Optimus Prime he didn't even change forms, just his name. The pictures I've seen of Optronix he allready looks like Optimus Prime so there really isn't anything for him to revert back to.

You are mistaken.While I wont say the changes were great there was a phical change in his body when he was transformed by the Matrin from Optronix to Optimus.

Saber Prime wrote:Of course I've only seen the robot modes and even Hot Rod and Rodimus look verry much alike in robot mode so maybe the differences are too small that I just didn't notice.

The never showed the alt mode of Optronix.But since his robot mode had some differences in both appearance and size after h got the Matrix [which was commented on by some of the characters] then its safe to assume that Optronix's alt mode was smaller then that of his Optimus body.

Saber Prime wrote:On the other hand, sence he was Optronix not Orian Pax the comparison really can't be made with the cartoon counterpart.

When "the War Within" was announced it was also said that the name change from Orion to Optronix was done because Simon Furmen [writter of TWW] did not wasnt to thread over the writting done by David Wise [G1 cartoon writter and writter of the episode "War Dawn] but I believe that its because Furmen never liked the writtings of David Wise.

Furmen has also shown a dislike for many of myths from the cartoon.

The script for "The War Within" has mention that Optronix was his name but he was called Orion by his friends.

Regardless a fair comparison can be made to identify the character's origin but the events in both universes cant really be compaired to each other.

Its safe to assume that Optronix and Orion are counterparts of each other but the events that lead to both to becoming Optimus Prime were quite different.

Saber Prime wrote:It still might be possible, at least for the toon if not the comics, that the only reason Optimus Prime doesn't change back into Orian Pax is because he was rebuilt into Optimus by Alpha Trion not modified by the Matrix like Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime was.

Oh yes thats very possible.I never said it wasnt.But what I'm saying is that its equally possoble that the Matrix did modify him and that he doesnt change back because of other modificatuion done to his body in the years after getting the Matrix.

Or that after having it so long Optimus cant be reverted simply because the Matrix is removed.

Saber Prime wrote:You can allso look at it another way. Hot Rod really is the only KNOWN Transformer to be upgraded by the Matrix. The reason he was upgraded when no one else was could be exactly the oppisite, he IS the one destined to carrey the Matrix.

You are incorrect sir.The Decepticon Scourge was also changed by the power of the Matrix.I dont know if you can call it an upgrade but it made him bigger and stronger just like it did to Hot Rod.

Also Optimus Prime also said that the Matrix made him stronger when Hot Rod gave it back to him.

Both of those thing leed me to the conclusion that Hot Rod IS Not the only one destined to carrey the Matrix and that there is a small fraction of the TF populance with an infinity with the Matrix and can be effected by it.

Saber Prime wrote:All of this, what you just said in the quote, and what I just said, is of course just speculation based on what we know about the Matrix, which isn't much.

Granted much of what we both said is open to debate but what is not is that Hot Rod was the only TF to be effected by the Matrix's power.

Optimus Prime and Scourge both reported a bost in power and Scourge was also physically change by the Matrix.

Saber Prime wrote:I've had that therie too and I still belive that may verry well be a possibility. Hey look, we actully agree on something.

We might be in an alternate universe

Saber Prime wrote:No idea what you just said there. That last part was kind of a run on sentence. (And I've probly been guilty of the same thing before.)

I weas trying to say that we really cant tell if the Matrix change Orion into Optimus or not.

And that we cant compair Rodimus's situation to that of Optimus's.

Saber Prime wrote:I could get a list off Wiki of all the known Matrix Bearers but there's really no point. The only thing I was trying to bring up is that it's not entirely nessisary for a Matrix Bearer to have an -imus Prime sufix on their name and that point has been made without listing everyone.

Agreed.

Here's one thing we're all forgetting: The Optimus/Orion Pax and Rodimus/Hot Rod thing is all the G1 cartoon. That thing didn't know its head from its butt most of the time. Remember, this is the same cartoon series that gave the Constructicons three different origins and showed Hotspot standing alongside Defensor.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You are incorrect sir.The Decepticon Scourge was also changed by the power of the Matrix.I dont know if you can call it an upgrade but it made him bigger and stronger just like it did to Hot Rod.

One thing about this is that both Optimus and Rodimus are Autobots, and Scourge is a Decepticon (right now you're saying "duh," I bet). What I mean by that is that, while the Matrix augments a chosen Autobot (or does nothing in the case of Ultra Magnus), it probably corrupts a Decepticon. The change in Scourge looked more like an infection, like radiation poisoning. While it's similar, I wouldn't really say you could use that as an argument either way. Autobots and Decepticons clearly have different reactions.

Anyway, weirdest Prime name? I'd go with Nova Prime/Prime Nova. Sounds like you intend to blow yourself up.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:Here's one thing we're all forgetting: The Optimus/Orion Pax and Rodimus/Hot Rod thing is all the G1 cartoon. That thing didn't know its head from its butt most of the time. Remember, this is the same cartoon series that gave the Constructicons three different origins and showed Hotspot standing alongside Defensor.

Technically they had 2 different origins for the Constructions not 3.Adding then to the scene where Megatron was created didnt really interfere with their histories.

Also the 2 different histories dont really conflict with each other if you dont take the words in the dialog too literally.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You are incorrect sir.The Decepticon Scourge was also changed by the power of the Matrix.I dont know if you can call it an upgrade but it made him bigger and stronger just like it did to Hot Rod.

One thing about this is that both Optimus and Rodimus are Autobots, and Scourge is a Decepticon (right now you're saying "duh," I bet).

Why would I be saying "DUH" over the fact that he's a Decepticon????Its not like I didnt point that out myself.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:What I mean by that is that, while the Matrix augments a chosen Autobot (or does nothing in the case of Ultra Magnus), it probably corrupts a Decepticon. The change in Scourge looked more like an infection, like radiation poisoning. While it's similar, I wouldn't really say you could use that as an argument either way.

Have you forgotten that Galvatron had his hands on the Matrix twice????Once in the 86 movie and once in the same episode that Scourge got it in.Both times he was unable to asscess the powers of the Matrix....He even placed it inside a part of himself and he had no physical change unlike when Scourge placed it inside himself..

If it were really more like "like radiation poisoning" then it would have effected on Decepticon in the same or simular way.

Me, Grimlock! wrote: Autobots and Decepticons clearly have different reactions.

Yeah but not very different.Scourge and Hot Rod got a body modificaton and a power boost.This suggest that he had some kind of connection to the power of the Matrix.

I would assume that the "ifinity" to the Matrix in some TF's is simular to the genitic factors that give some members of a family blue eyes or leave them predisposed to some illnesse's.

The fact that ,just like within the Autobot ranks, The Matrix only has an physically changing effect on certain Decepticons proves my argument.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:
Anyway, weirdest Prime name? I'd go with Nova Prime/Prime Nova. Sounds like you intend to blow yourself up.

Hehe.

Skorpimus Prime
Tryptimus Prime
Metromus Prime
Maximus Prime (kinda lame)

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You are mistaken.While I wont say the changes were great there was a phical change in his body when he was transformed by the Matrin from Optronix to Optimus.

Had to look at that for a while before I noticed but yes he does seem to have a few extra fetures in his Optimus form that Optronix doesn't have. (Like the side intenas on his helmet and a few other minor changes to the chest details.) Thanks for the pics.

You are incorrect sir.The Decepticon Scourge was also changed by the power of the Matrix.I dont know if you can call it an upgrade but it made him bigger and stronger just like it did to Hot Rod.

Also Optimus Prime also said that the Matrix made him stronger when Hot Rod gave it back to him.

Both of those thing leed me to the conclusion that Hot Rod IS Not the only one destined to carrey the Matrix and that there is a small fraction of the TF populance with an infinity with the Matrix and can be effected by it.

Granted much of what we both said is open to debate but what is not is that Hot Rod was the only TF to be effected by the Matrix's power.

Optimus Prime and Scourge both reported a bost in power and Scourge was also physically change by the Matrix.

You missunderstood what I said here. I only ment that Hot Rod was the only known Transformer to be physically upgraded by the Matrix not that no one else was effected at all. Just whatever effecets it had on Optimus and the other Autobots wasn't any physical change. (At least in the cartoon)

What happened in Scourge's case is actully verry different. It's the "Autobot" Matrix of leadership and Scourge was in a sence poisoned by it and mutated into an allmost blob like creature. We know that because he's a Decepticon he was never ment to have the Matrix and what happen to him may verry well of happened to any Decepticon that took it.

Before you mention Galvatron though, he never actully held the Matrix inside him like Scourge or the Autobots did.

I weas trying to say that we really cant tell if the Matrix change Orion into Optimus or not.

It may verry well be that Optimus got the Matrix the same day he was rebuilt but the lines spoken do say he was "rebuilt by Alpha Trion" so regardless of weather or not he had the Matrix at that time we do know it wasn't the Matrix that gave him that form.

If it was only the Matrix that reformated him then the whole thing about Alpha Trion rebuilding him doesn't make any sence. Aireal got rebuilt too, and there's only one Matrix that we know of, so she couldn't of been upgraded by it.

Argh! Double post!

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Technically they had 2 different origins for the Constructions not 3.Adding then to the scene where Megatron was created didnt really interfere with their histories.

Also the 2 different histories dont really conflict with each other if you dont take the words in the dialog too literally.

I remember someone saying on a site somewhere (maybe even this one) that they had 3 separate ones. That's where I got my number. I counted two, too. But, in the spirit of my original point, the cartoon continuity is messy; I was pointing out that the writers weren't too clean in creating character histories, whether fans could later reconcile them or not. Two origins or three, the writers didn't use any rhyme or reason in writing these histories even if fans can somehow reconcile it all 20 years later. Who's to say they were more careful when writing about the Matrix?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Why would I be saying "DUH" over the fact that he's a Decepticon????Its not like I didnt point that out myself.

I was saying "duh" precisely because it was obvious and you pointed it out already (one of those "we knew that already; get on with it" duhs).

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Have you forgotten that Galvatron had his hands on the Matrix twice????Once in the 86 movie and once in the same episode that Scourge got it in.Both times he was unable to asscess the powers of the Matrix....He even placed it inside a part of himself and he had no physical change unlike when Scourge placed it inside himself..

Aaarrrggghhhh... I did forget. There goes my theory. I remember only once (when Galvatron steals it from Magnus until when he fights Hot Rod in the belly of Unicron), but I'll take your word for it. You obviously have a better memory than I do.

I still stand by my original point, which doesn't apply to the comics but might help nullify any attempt to explain the cartoon. G1 cartoon history is messy, so I don't think any of it is reliable in telling us what happens when someone gets the Matrix. I really don't think there IS any single explanation. As fans, we might be able to come up with reconciliations, but it would be haphazard. The writers weren't too careful when they wrote their episodes.

Again, can't speak for the comics.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Technically they had 2 different origins for the Constructions not 3.Adding then to the scene where Megatron was created didnt really interfere with their histories.

Also the 2 different histories dont really conflict with each other if you dont take the words in the dialog too literally.

I remember someone saying on a site somewhere (maybe even this one) that they had 3 separate ones. That's where I got my number. I counted two, too. But, in the spirit of my original point, the cartoon continuity is messy; I was pointing out that the writers weren't too clean in creating character histories, whether fans could later reconcile them or not. Two origins or three, the writers didn't use any rhyme or reason in writing these histories even if fans can somehow reconcile it all 20 years later. Who's to say they were more careful when writing about the Matrix?

1. In their first appearance Megatron says "It was worth all that time building them.

2. The Omega Supreme "they were reprogramed" origin.

3. They built Megatron.

anyone remember Alvin Prime? now THAT was an abomination! I'll take any prime over that!