The Energon Pub

... I have a question.

If you had to do a show where you could not have the Autobots vs Decepticons in every single episode what kind of villains WOULD you have to pass the time between the Decepticon episodes?

easy...Quints or some other alien race to cause chaos

***Galvatron*** wrote:easy...Quints or some other alien race to cause chaos

Funny you should mention the Quints because I'm actully hopeing they get introduced into the series at some point. Maybe it will turn out Blitzwing is secretly a double agent working for the Quints and not a Decepticon at all. It would sertainly exsplain the simular head gimic.

ummmmm none. Because if it was written right you wouldn't need filler villians.

Aliens would be a cool one-time shot, but IMHO setting the whole show on Earth, then having the Autobots spend their time fighting/interacting with non-Cybertronian aliens instead of humans would be... pointless.

Burn wrote:ummmmm none. Because if it was written right you wouldn't need filler villians.

How would you write it so that you have fighting action every episode (like you know the fans are gonna want), but not have either side lose so much that they lose credibility?

There doesn't need to be fighting EVERY episode.

I can see a series centering around the front lines where each episode deals with a character (and later more than one character) and who they are and how they deal with the war while the underlying storyline tells the story of the war it's self.

Burn wrote:There doesn't need to be fighting EVERY episode.

I can see a series centering around the front lines where each episode deals with a character (and later more than one character) and who they are and how they deal with the war while the underlying storyline tells the story of the war it's self.

Um... you can't have a "war" going on and not have anyone fighting. You can't seriously call that "good wrighting" it barly passes with fighting and no casualties.

Casualties don't have to happen in view. We can hear about them, the losses each side takes, but naturally we can't see them as that would defy the standards children's shows are set today. But there is nothing wrong with fighting, I don't get where you got the idea there couldn't be any, just not all the time.

Plus it is perfectly plausible to have "good writing" in character focused episodes without resorting to killing a character or characters. It is the story that dictates good writing and a story is not exclusively dependent on character death. Also it is a little too tragic for a children's show to convey the true horror of war realistically... That's why they would be much more suited to delivering the background of war losses exclusively through dialogue.

Saber Prime wrote:

Burn wrote:There doesn't need to be fighting EVERY episode.

I can see a series centering around the front lines where each episode deals with a character (and later more than one character) and who they are and how they deal with the war while the underlying storyline tells the story of the war it's self.

Um... you can't have a "war" going on and not have anyone fighting. You can't seriously call that "good wrighting" it barly passes with fighting and no casualties.

Read what Tekka said. He got my point perfectly.

Here's my point.

One aspect of good wrighting is conflict. Sence the conflict has allready been stated as "war" you can't have the story without showing it.

You can substitute one conflict for another and then your story is not about the war between the Autobots and Decepticons and then we're back to haveing non-Decepticon villains on the show.

Having them out in the trenches every episode wouldn't be very entertaining. When you're doing things like character focused episodes you can do things like solo missions, take Mirage for example.

His power would make him ideally suited for a story seeing him going behind enemy lines to take out a Decepticon facility or storehouse. While he's there he encounters a former friend of his from Cybertron who is now a Decepticon.

This Decepticon and Mirage get into it, and during the fight the Decepticon comes close to convincing Mirage to switch sides. But at the last moment we're given a flashback scene to remind us as the viewers and Mirage as a character exactly what he's been fighting for all this time, giving him the motivation to use his power one last to time to incapacitate his enemy and make his escape before the facility goes up in flames.

Then when Mirage has made his way back to base to get his pat on the head from Optimus Prime, and make his little speech about knowing where he belongs and doing the right thing.

Meanwhile back at the ruins of the Decepticon facility, our 'con friend is seen pulling himself out the rubble and swearing that next time he won't be so forgiving. Before going back to Decepticon HQ to get his implied punishment from Megatron.

And that's just a bare basis for a solo episode that still has conflict, and no death, and is still keeping within the scenario of war.

Saber Prime wrote:Here's my point.

One aspect of good wrighting is conflict. Sence the conflict has allready been stated as "war" you can't have the story without showing it.

You can substitute one conflict for another and then your story is not about the war between the Autobots and Decepticons and then we're back to haveing non-Decepticon villains on the show.

Go back and read what I originally posted. I said there didn't need to be fight scenes EVERY episode. I NEVER said there was no need to see fight scenes.

Take a look at the Terminator movies and The Sarah Connor Chronicles tv series. They revolve around the war of man -vs- machine set in the future while the main stories are set in the present. We see snippets of the war in the future but it's often very brief.

What I was proposing was stories centered around one or two characters, either planning or discussing the war, or reflecting on the past before the war came. Yes, there will be conflict shown but not every episode will require the Autobots to go out and fight the Decepticons.

For 20 odd years we had TF stories which revolved around Optimus Prime and Megatron as the main leaders of either faction, fighting for domination.

Beast Wars changed that, neither Primal or Megatron were the main leaders of their faction, they commanded smaller groups, much like Animated Optimus Prime does.

This is what I want to see, stories from the grunts, not the main leaders fighting for control but the grunts story and how they deal with the war and how it affects them. Like I said, there will be conflict but it does NOT need to be every episode.

Nightbird somehow gets away from her encasement. She's somehow convinced herself she could do better alone than with the Decepticons and harrasses humanity with her own group of human made robots for world domination. She can do mind games as well as beat cybertron robots up.

There was a TF series once, that was widely regarded as the best ever, and by me is teh best. It had no humans at all, except for one or two monkeys, and it had brilliant stories.
It was called Beast wars.
No silly children, no police, just brillig bots.
So there.

I would say another faction of Tfs would do the trick. One which does'nt agree with either the Autobots or Decepticons and treats each with disgust and hatred.

Since we are dealing in hypothetical, why can't we see what kind of victims would be present in between Autobot episodes!

I hate that things always revolve around the good guys, and thank the comics for focusing on the bad every now and then(now if I only had a store near me that carried TF comics).

Still I have to agree with prior coments, if writen well, you wont need these suck ass filler villans. The Decepticons/Predicons would be intresting enough to pull the story along working towards a preconcieved goal, while AutoBots/Maximals are learning to work as a team(losers)!

The idea is that they're NOT "filler" villains. They're "recurring" villains. Guys that would be just as powerfull as the Decepticons themselfs without being so over powered that they are a much LARGER threat (like Unicron) this way the show doesn't get borring by just doing the same damn thing EVERY episode.

Defcon! wrote:I would say another faction of Tfs would do the trick. One which does'nt agree with either the Autobots or Decepticons and treats each with disgust and hatred.

I think that would be a really interesting thing to see, it would make it feel more realistic in a way because war is never as plain as 'Group A = Good, Group B = Bad'

I always wondered why this didn't happen in more prominence, I mean I'm sure somebody is pretty upset about their fighting messing things up for everyone else for how many years....*shrugs*

Bring in the Predacons, since we already have Black Arachnia, a few more biological bots to round out a small group of Predacons fighting against both the Decepticons and Autobots would be nice to see.

Transformers who had something happen to them, so they end up being shunned by either side, so they end up forming the Predacons. Maybe bring in Dinobot, or Waspinator, or Rhinox. Pair them up with Black Arachnia trying to get the Allspark for a cure and to get revenge of their "friends" who cast them of.

That would make for some good episodes.

Senor Hugo wrote:Bring in the Predacons, since we already have Black Arachnia, a few more biological bots to round out a small group of Predacons fighting against both the Decepticons and Autobots would be nice to see.

Transformers who had something happen to them, so they end up being shunned by either side, so they end up forming the Predacons. Maybe bring in Dinobot, or Waspinator, or Rhinox. Pair them up with Black Arachnia trying to get the Allspark for a cure and to get revenge of their "friends" who cast them of.

That would make for some good episodes.

That's an idea. They would be directly connected and affected to and by both sides. Also i was thinking to have them be almost like the Morlocks from the X-Men. You could have them with deformities or even be Preds. living underground and despising both sides.

Saber Prime wrote:The idea is that they're NOT "filler" villains. They're "recurring" villains. Guys that would be just as powerfull as the Decepticons themselfs without being so over powered that they are a much LARGER threat (like Unicron) this way the show doesn't get borring by just doing the same damn thing EVERY episode.

So then why cant they at least be good!?!

We get some fancy pants Moltar rip-off, a Robin Hood reject, and a kid on a pony. If these are just as good as Decepticons and Autobots are still struggling...

Well that just sucks!!!!

And before a single one of you go, "well Animated rocks, and G1 had that Chumbly guy..."

Well, that was one episode out of 98, and he at least had tech on his side. Hell I think Sean Berger was way more villanious as he used real things like media and politics to best the good guys. It made for a good story.

Now I;m not sorry, but I watch Transformers for the Transformers. One of my all time favorite things about Beast Wars was that it was just about the Transformers. Every episode had it's own plot, but there was always a greater prize which through good writing, brought all Transformers together.

When that ran out, we didn't get a super figure like Unicron. No we got a simple plot twist that showed the spoils of war when the good guys loose, and a nice journey into some of the various mythos of Cybertron itself that didn't even need to awaken Primus!?!

There's alot of ways to tell a story, and delving into one of a anchent race has alot of potential. Without Earth, or Villans like Unicron, there are countless tales a good writer can bring from that in itself....

Hence to me, human "super villans" are just filler, which takes focus not only off the other side of the coin, but the rest of the change in the pocket.

Liege Evilmus wrote:We get some fancy pants Moltar rip-off, a Robin Hood reject, and a kid on a pony. If these are just as good as Decepticons and Autobots are still struggling...

You missunderstood. The topic title is "for all who hate Human Villains" I wasn't talking about the villains on the show when I talked about the recurring villains being just as powerfull as the Decepticons. I was trying to give you an idea of what to think about in terms of your sugestions for more powerfull enemys than the likes of Professor Princess and Angry Archer.

My opinion is more that the human villains could have worked if they were done ALOT better. Meltdown and Headmaster are the only ones that pose any real threat to the Autobots. Meltdown is a bit insaine but I like him. Headmaster could of been a little better if it wasn't for the World of Warcraft reject personality. Basically I'm not really agenst human villains, I'm agenst THESE human villains. The likes of Angry Archer, Professor Princess, Nanosec, are no challenge at all for giant robots. If they were fighting human heroes maybe but giant robots, I don't think so.

Short version of my opinion, I hate the human villains in Animated just as much as you do but for different reasons.

Liege Evilmus wrote:So then why cant they at least be good!?!

We get some fancy pants Moltar rip-off, a Robin Hood reject, and a kid on a pony. If these are just as good as Decepticons and Autobots are still struggling...

Well that just sucks!!!!

And before a single one of you go, "well Animated rocks, and G1 had that Chumbly guy..."

Well, that was one episode out of 98, and he at least had tech on his side. Hell I think Sean Berger was way more villanious as he used real things like media and politics to best the good guys. It made for a good story.

Now I;m not sorry, but I watch Transformers for the Transformers. One of my all time favorite things about Beast Wars was that it was just about the Transformers. Every episode had it's own plot, but there was always a greater prize which through good writing, brought all Transformers together.

When that ran out, we didn't get a super figure like Unicron. No we got a simple plot twist that showed the spoils of war when the good guys loose, and a nice journey into some of the various mythos of Cybertron itself that didn't even need to awaken Primus!?!

There's alot of ways to tell a story, and delving into one of a anchent race has alot of potential. Without Earth, or Villans like Unicron, there are countless tales a good writer can bring from that in itself....

Hence to me, human "super villans" are just filler, which takes focus not only off the other side of the coin, but the rest of the change in the pocket.

QFT!

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Here's a quick question for you. Would you like the human characters any more or less if they were actully Decepticons?

Here's my version of the Human villains as Decepticons.


The Angry Archer (It was the only Transformer mold I could find with a bow.)


Nanosec (I used this version of Blurr for multiple reasons. 1. They're both fast characters 2. The design of this Blurr is verry simular to the costume Nanosec wears 3. The Orange accents were allready there on the original mold.)


Professor Princess (Rather than "riding" a unicorn now she "is" a unicorn)


Meltdown (The shape of the mold is verry simular to Meltdown's costume, he has googles, and in Animated Meltdown hates machines and Soundwave hates organics so he was allready primed to be a reverse.)


Colossus Rhodes (The stacks on the shoulders of Overload are allready verry simular to the ones on Cyrus.)


The Headmaster (He really needs no "Transformer" version of himself sence he is allready a Transformer but I thought this head kind of looked like him so I did it anyway. Not sure how it actully transforms so the coloring may be off.)

And as an added bonus... THE PRETENDERS! (Without their shells)


Bomb-Burst


Submarauder

I just stuck these in here sence they did appear in Animated with their shells.