The Energon Pub

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:50 am**

OK, first of all, this is just a speculative thread, so all you fangirlz don't wet yourselves. :twisted:

Now. We've seen Optimus Prime and Jetfire combine in Armada, then in RoTF. (Maybe even in other series, but I haven't seen it.) Their Decepticon counterparts, Megatron and Starscream, from G1 through the movies, have never seen optic-to-optic, which is a great contribution to the dynamic of both characters. However, it cannot be denied that individually they're both formidable warriors with awesome capabilities. But whereas Jetfire's combination with Prime gives Prime the ability to fly, Megatron, being a Decepticon, needs no such upgrade. But Starscream does have a lot of great battle qualities, from which Megatron could benefit. I'm picking Megatron, because combined, Prime was the dominant personality, and so would Megatron be. So would combining these 2 volatile characters be a good story move for a comic or a cartoon, (or even the next movie? :shock:

) or would their personalities simply be too much to contain in one single combined form? Think the G1 Stunticons. Individually they were effective, but the 4 soldiers hated Motormaster and Menasor didn't work very well. And we all know Starscream and Megatron aren't drinking buddies. Except in Microbots.

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:02 am**

Going from what Starscream is protrayed in the G1 series, I'd say Starscream would likely "eject" from Megatron the moment they don't have the upper hand. This is a good idea, maybe someone can explore this idea through fan fiction of some kind. :-?

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:29 am**

That's a good point, but if Megatron was the dominant personality, what if he doesn't *let* Starscream separate? :twisted:

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:05 pm**

Jetfire isn't the only flying Autobot Optimus has combined with. So far ever sence R.I.D. every new series following has had Optimus combine with other characters. (except for Animated)

RID has Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus combine to form Omega Prime and I belive this is the only time an Optimus combiner has been named. Neither Optimus or Magnus seemed overly dominate, insted Omega Prime seemed to be a seperate personality which is good considering Ultra Magnus hates Optimus and Omega Prime wouldn't work verry well if the two characters were fighting for controll.

Armada then had Jetfire and later Overload. Overload in the comics (I've only seen him in 1 comic and really the only comic I ever read) was actully a speaking character but in the cartoon he was nothing more than a weapon. Never spoke, never transformed to robot mode, he was only there to combine with Optimus.

Energon Jetfire was still around and all the Autobots in the series were able to combine with other Autobots who had the same "Spark of Combination" that they did. Jetfire and Optimus had different sparks. Insted Optimus was able to combine with Wing Saber in different combinations allowing him to fly. He was allso able to combine with Omega Supreme which looked like crap because it was Omega Supreme with Optimus Prime's head makeing him vastly out of proportion and basically Omega Supreme was battle armor preventing Optimus from getting attacked unless someone shot him in the head. His head being such a small target it's like blowing up the death star.

Cybertron he again gets to combine with Wing Saber who is an entirely different character from Energon Wing Saber as he's first introduced as an Autobot no one really trusts and he's kind of a jerk. Like Ultra Magnus in RID I doubt Wing Saber likes Optimus verry much but for different reasons. Optimus allso combines with Leo Breaker which is basically just Leo Breaker transforming into an Arm.

Then we of course have ROTF Optimus and Jetfire so no Optimus has never combined with Jetfire outside of Armada and ROTF.

Megatron has had a few combinations of his own, not with Starscream but in Armada he was able to combine with Tidal Wave and in Cybertron Leo Breaker had an evil black repaint that combined with Megatron.

But hey combineing with characters who hate you seems to work for Optimus so I guess someone could make Megatron and Starscream work.

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:21 pm**

I think Tidal Wave was more of just an add-on with Megatron in Armada, as he kinda just breaks into pieces for Megatron's armor and weap. :-?

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:02 pm**

As much as this sets my slashy antennae atingle (*tingle*), I have to say if Prime/Jetfire from ROTF is your model of this type of combining, I don't think it's going to happen. Ratchet was required to make it happen, so it's less a combining than a 'wearing another dead dude' and being able to access some of his features. Remember, Jetfire was nigh dead/dying and the 'combining' required Ratchet's intervention. Which we didn't see with Skids and Mudflap or Devastator.

So, it's possible a dead or dying Screamer would be gutted for a one-time use, like OP/Jetfire--that would fit with Megatron's character, yes. But on a regular basis? I don't think it works within the movieverse rules of combining (S&M, Dev and probably the Arcees tho' we never got to see them).

HK, so *mean* to Starscream, you are!

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:19 pm**

hellkitty wrote:As much as this sets my slashy antennae atingle (*tingle*), I have to say if Prime/Jetfire from ROTF is your model of this type of combining, I don't think it's going to happen. Ratchet was required to make it happen, so it's less a combining than a 'wearing another dead dude' and being able to access some of his features. Remember, Jetfire was nigh dead/dying and the 'combining' required Ratchet's intervention. Which we didn't see with Skids and Mudflap or Devastator.

So, it's possible a dead or dying Screamer would be gutted for a one-time use, like OP/Jetfire--that would fit with Megatron's character, yes. But on a regular basis? I don't think it works within the movieverse rules of combining (S&M, Dev and probably the Arcees tho' we never got to see them).

HK, so *mean* to Starscream, you are!

I'm all for killing and gutting Starscream to use his parts on Megatron :twisted:

Thought, it is a slim, but possibility that the TFs in the movie will discover some "new/old technology" that allows them to combine.

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:35 pm**

hellkitty wrote:As much as this sets my slashy antennae atingle (*tingle*), I have to say if Prime/Jetfire from ROTF is your model of this type of combining, I don't think it's going to happen. Ratchet was required to make it happen, so it's less a combining than a 'wearing another dead dude' and being able to access some of his features. Remember, Jetfire was nigh dead/dying and the 'combining' required Ratchet's intervention. Which we didn't see with Skids and Mudflap or Devastator.

Actually I was thinking of it when I combined my Armada Prime and Jetfire and was looking at Armada Screamer and Megatron next to them. And if the writers of RoTF were able to come up with something as asinine as the Prime-Jetfire combination (not the concept but *how* they did it) I'm sure they can work their *magic* and give some dumbass explanation for combining Screamer and Megatron in the next movie. If we have the misfortune of having those 2 return as writers.

So, it's possible a dead or dying Screamer would be gutted for a one-time use, like OP/Jetfire--that would fit with Megatron's character, yes.

So by that explanation technically Megatron *was* a combiner in RoTF because he was wearing a dead Constructicon. But I really was referring to more of a Skids-Mudflap type combination, where they can combine and separate on command. (On command by *Megatron* :twisted:

)

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:37 pm**

shonenfan4 wrote:I'm all for killing and gutting Starscream to use his parts on Megatron.

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:52 pm**

shonenfan4 wrote:I'm all for killing and gutting Starscream to use his parts on Megatron Thought, it is a slim, but possibility that the TFs in the movie will discover some "new/old technology" that allows them to combine.

You know, I really have no one to blame here but *myself* for even mentioning the notion. Anyone who thinks I am a crafty devil, queen of verbal ninjitsu--proof to the contrary.

I think the 'writers' of Transformers movies have made up *enough* inconsistent ridiculous faux-worldbuilding garbage already, thanks. I'd rather see minicons than have them reinvent the combining thing again. Serious dearth of imagination. And killing off Screamer has also already been done. Hope they try something almost sorta kinda maybe original, myself.

HK, Shonenfan--I will waterboard you with my tears!!!! :sad:

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:00 pm**

hellkitty wrote:I'd rather see minicons than have them reinvent the combining thing again.

One of the movies' producers, Lorenzo di Bonaventura, has already indicated that they're going in that direction for TF3. Personally, I like the Mini-Con concept, hopefully they can make a working script of it. Not with Orci and Kurtzman, but it can be done.

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:57 pm**

Just a random question but why is it that everyone talks about Optimus Prime and Jetfire as if both characters died and only Optimus was brought back to life when they combined? I don't understand how everyone came to that conclusion.

If Optimus died and Jolt his electro whips to combine him with Jetfire there by bringing Optimus back to life wouldn't he there for allso be bringing Jetfire back to life?

Someone exsplain to me how it is that two dead transformers get combined togeather and only one of them is revived from this.

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:12 pm**

hellkitty wrote:
shonenfan4 wrote:I'm all for killing and gutting Starscream to use his parts on Megatron Thought, it is a slim, but possibility that the TFs in the movie will discover some "new/old technology" that allows them to combine.

You know, I really have no one to blame here but *myself* for even mentioning the notion. Anyone who thinks I am a crafty devil, queen of verbal ninjitsu--proof to the contrary.

I think the 'writers' of Transformers movies have made up *enough* inconsistent ridiculous faux-worldbuilding garbage already, thanks. I'd rather see minicons than have them reinvent the combining thing again. Serious dearth of imagination. And killing off Screamer has also already been done. Hope they try something almost sorta kinda maybe original, myself.

HK, Shonenfan--I will waterboard you with my tears!!!!

At least I didn't mention my idea of killing off Starscream and he instead turns into some type of virus like Mr. Smith did in the Matrix trilogy. :lol:

Rial Vestro wrote:Just a random question but why is it that everyone talks about Optimus Prime and Jetfire as if both characters died and only Optimus was brought back to life when they combined? I don't understand how everyone came to that conclusion.

If Optimus died and Jolt his electro whips to combine him with Jetfire there by bringing Optimus back to life wouldn't he there for allso be bringing Jetfire back to life?

Someone exsplain to me how it is that two dead transformers get combined togeather and only one of them is revived from this.

I think Optimus Prime was revived by the Matrix moments before the Fallen grabs it again, then the mortally wounded Jetfire sacrificed his spark and his own parts for Prime. Thus Jetfire really died. :-?

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:59 am**

Rial Vestro wrote:Just a random question but why is it that everyone talks about Optimus Prime and Jetfire as if both characters died and only Optimus was brought back to life when they combined? I don't understand how everyone came to that conclusion.

If Optimus died and Jolt his electro whips to combine him with Jetfire there by bringing Optimus back to life wouldn't he there for allso be bringing Jetfire back to life?

Someone exsplain to me how it is that two dead transformers get combined togeather and only one of them is revived from this.

Are you talking about "ROTF"'s Prime and Jetfire????

If thats the case........Optimus Prime was brought back to life by Sam and the Matrix.

Soon after Jetfire killed himsewlf so as to allow Optimus to use his body and power to upgrade.

Optimus basicly wore Jetfires body like a power booster jacket.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:15 pm**

That makes alot more sence.

Every time the subject had been brought up I allways heard both Prime and Jetfire died and then Jolt used his electro whips to combine them. And for some reason only Prime was resurected. No one ever mentioned the Matrix before or that Prime was revived before he was combined with Jetfire so I just thought they were both dead and Jolt's electro whips revived him.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:37 pm**

Rial Vestro wrote:That makes alot more sence.

Every time the subject had been brought up I allways heard both Prime and Jetfire died and then Jolt used his electro whips to combine them. And for some reason only Prime was resurected. No one ever mentioned the Matrix before or that Prime was revived before he was combined with Jetfire so I just thought they were both dead and Jolt's electro whips revived him.

So you havent seen the film????

Prime was killed earlier in the film and brought back by Sam and the Matrix.

If I remember correctly he was on the verge of dieing again....or at least badly damaged when he was "combined" with Jetfire.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:59 pm**

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:If I remember correctly he was on the verge of dieing again....or at least badly damaged when he was "combined" with Jetfire.

He was revived, and was just very weak. Without Jetfire's added power, no way he would have been able to fight Megatron and The Fallen.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:16 pm**

Rodimus Prime wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:If I remember correctly he was on the verge of dieing again....or at least badly damaged when he was "combined" with Jetfire.

He was revived, and was just very weak. Without Jetfire's added power, no way he would have been able to fight Megatron and The Fallen.

Thanks for the reminder.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:23 pm**

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:So you havent seen the film????

Nope, I was going off the information I've heard about the movie which all sounds preddy horrible anyway.

The last time I heard about a movie that sucked this much I desided to check it out for myself and it turned out, the movie was exactly as bad as I thought it would be. That would be Spider-man 3, for like 3 weeks before I finnally desided to watch it I heard about the scene of the "evil" Peter Parker doing the SNL strut down the street and I was like "how does SNL strut = evil?" and sure enough it was just that bad. Toby makes a horrible bad guy.

From the sound of things, ROTF is even worse than Spider-man 3. I've heard that every single Constructicon who forms Devistator dies at least once before Devistator is even formed. The first of whome is Demolisher/Scrapper who is made even worse by the fact he seems to have 2 different names but given they look exactly alike I'm not buying into the whole, they're different characters exsplination that everyone else seems to be going with. I've allso heard that a few characters who died in the 2007 movie are returning to this movie just to die all over again. Jolt apperently never speaks and only appears to combine Optimus Prime and Jetfire. No one seems to know what the purpus of Alice was. And just all around in general with Transformers poping in and out for no appearent reason the story line is near impossible to follow.

Again, this is all just what I've heard about the movie from mixed sources. So given all this crap, I really don't want to see ROTF. All that pluse the fact that I did see and hated the 2007 movie.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:32 pm**

Spiderman 3 was horrible. Tobey Maguire is a bad Spidey/Peter Parker, not just a horrible bad guy. James Franco would have been a perfect Peter Parker, and Tobey would have fit Harry's role. RoTF was not nearly as bad as Spidey 3.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:48 pm**

Rial Vestro wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:So you havent seen the film????

Nope, I was going off the information I've heard about the movie which all sounds preddy horrible anyway.

The last time I heard about a movie that sucked this much I desided to check it out for myself and it turned out, the movie was exactly as bad as I thought it would be. That would be Spider-man 3, for like 3 weeks before I finnally desided to watch it I heard about the scene of the "evil" Peter Parker doing the SNL strut down the street and I was like "how does SNL strut = evil?" and sure enough it was just that bad. Toby makes a horrible bad guy.

From the sound of things, ROTF is even worse than Spider-man 3. I've heard that every single Constructicon who forms Devistator dies at least once before Devistator is even formed. The first of whome is Demolisher/Scrapper who is made even worse by the fact he seems to have 2 different names but given they look exactly alike I'm not buying into the whole, they're different characters exsplination that everyone else seems to be going with. I've allso heard that a few characters who died in the 2007 movie are returning to this movie just to die all over again. Jolt apperently never speaks and only appears to combine Optimus Prime and Jetfire. No one seems to know what the purpus of Alice was. And just all around in general with Transformers poping in and out for no appearent reason the story line is near impossible to follow.

Again, this is all just what I've heard about the movie from mixed sources. So given all this crap, I really don't want to see ROTF. All that pluse the fact that I did see and hated the 2007 movie.

Well....the story really isint that hard to follow.Truth be told the story is rather "cartoonish" in how easy it is to follow.

The issue with both the "Construticon doubles" and the others is that they were different characters.......but its still a pretty stupid.None of the "vehicles" that combined into Devastator were ever seen transforming into individual robots.

Alice's purpose was to get info from Sam.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:00 pm**

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Rial Vestro wrote:That makes alot more sence.

Every time the subject had been brought up I allways heard both Prime and Jetfire died and then Jolt used his electro whips to combine them. And for some reason only Prime was resurected. No one ever mentioned the Matrix before or that Prime was revived before he was combined with Jetfire so I just thought they were both dead and Jolt's electro whips revived him.

So you havent seen the film????

Prime was killed earlier in the film and brought back by Sam and the Matrix.

If I remember correctly he was on the verge of dieing again....or at least badly damaged when he was "combined" with Jetfire.

^That, Optimus Prime was brought back by Sam and the Matrix, but was badly damaged again when The Fallen teleported in and grabbed the Matrix from Prime.

edit: 666th posts. :twisted:

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:03 pm**

Rodimus Prime wrote:Spiderman 3 was horrible. Tobey Maguire is a bad Spidey/Peter Parker, not just a horrible bad guy. James Franco would have been a perfect Peter Parker, and Tobey would have fit Harry's role. RoTF was not nearly as bad as Spidey 3.

I don't think so Tim.

Toby was a great Spider-man when Spider-man was a good guy but when he turned evil he just sucked at playing bad. Toby could not of been Harry at all because then he'd be playing a bad guy all the time and he sucks at it.

The first Spider-man movie was really the only movie in the trilligy that I actully liked. The only major changes to the source material that were made in that Movie was that Spider-man was actully able to produce webs from his hands insted of building his trade marked web shooters and Green Goblin's costume was COMPLETLY different from the original. The origins changed as well but not really a major change to the characters.

Now I actully liked the first movie because non of the changes actully effected how the characters were in terms of personality so it was more of a slight annoyance that went away after the first few scenes. Pluse I never liked Green Goblin's original costume anyway so I prefer Movie Goblin.

In Spider-man 2, it sucked because Doc Oct's personality was changed in order to fit the plot of the movie where he basically kills himself at the end to save everyone else. Doc Oct is not a crazy man who talks to his tenticles and the whole thing with the microchip protecting him from being controlled by said tenticles was just stupid. There's no way they should of been able to controll him unless they allready had their own AI in which case he wouldn't of needed to hook himself up to them in the first place. That aside the ending allso looked verry rushed where as the first movie flowed at a nice stedy pace all the way through.

Spider-man 3, the opening seemed verry rushed and thus Harry takeing over as the Goblin which took place in the rushed ending of 2 and the rushed opening of 3 just looked like a horrible slaped togeather mess. And Harry's Goblin costume didn't even look like a Goblin anymore.

Venom was screwed up throughout the entire movie. The only thing they got right was the bell tower scene and because of all the changes that were made before they got to that scene it didn't even make any sence for the movie. In the original Peter Parker wore the synbiot all the time, it never came off UNTILL the bell tower. In the movie they showed him takeing it off and storeing it as if it were a normal costume which then defys all reasoning when suddenly he's not able to take it off anymore. Then when Eddie becomes Venom things get even worse as he refers to himself as I rather than we and has a high pitched screech rather than a low snarl. Not to mention he isn't a bulked up muscle head jock and looks like he's just as scrony and week as Peter was before he was Spider-man. Basically the movie did a horrible job at showing that this "suit" was actully it's own sentiant entity and wasn't just a black suit. There were moments when they showed the moving black goo that looked like a spider which was kinda cool but that's the only indication in the entire movie that this thing is alive. The rest of the time, it's a costume and they way they did it I don't think someone unfamiliar with the character would even realize that the suit is alive.

Finally there's Sandman who I'm not familar with at all so I'm not compairing him with any older version of his character he just sucked. I couldn't follow his motivation for the life of me. They had that whole back story where he's a father with a sick daughter and needs money for her to get better but they played that out horribly. Most of his actions in the movie invoved trying to kill Spider-man for no reason what so ever. Then the ending of the movie, really long fight scene followed by really long simpathetic story, followed by "well that's all right then." Worst character ever.

It seems like for some odd reason they desided that in the movieverse of Spider-man every single villain was going to be a skitsofrenic.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:37 pm**

Rial Vestro wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:Spiderman 3 was horrible. Tobey Maguire is a bad Spidey/Peter Parker, not just a horrible bad guy. James Franco would have been a perfect Peter Parker, and Tobey would have fit Harry's role. RoTF was not nearly as bad as Spidey 3.

I don't think so Tim.

I do Frankie.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:56 pm**

Rodimus Prime wrote:
Rial Vestro wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:Spiderman 3 was horrible. Tobey Maguire is a bad Spidey/Peter Parker, not just a horrible bad guy. James Franco would have been a perfect Peter Parker, and Tobey would have fit Harry's role. RoTF was not nearly as bad as Spidey 3.

I don't think so Tim.

I do Frankie.

Who's Frankie?

"I don't think so Tim." was an Al Borland quote from Home Improvement. He'd say that line every time Tim Taylor (AKA Tim Allen) did or said something goofy and/or stupid.

I was mostly just commenting on the fact you seem to think Toby would of done better as Harry than as Peter and that is a most definite no. He was the worst possible bad guy ever as the so called "Evil" Peter Parker why in the world would you think he could do better as a character who is a villain all the time.

Toby should never play villains, ever, simple as that. He sucks at playing the bad guy.

Granted Harry isn't actully evil just missguided but the same could be said of Peter under the influance of Venom. In any case Harry was a villain to Spider-man and Toby can not play a good villain.

The Energon Pub

Megatron and Starscream combined.

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