The Energon Pub

Apologies if this thread sounds strange and doesn't make complete sense; I just didn't exactly know how to word it.

As far as I can remember, I've been fascinated with combiner teams, from both the 'Bots' and the 'Cons' respective sides. The whole concept of having a, if you will, faction operating either independently or with the particular larger force intrigues me, as they're usually a tight-knit and cohesive bunch, often formed on a strong bond with one another--a bond that ventures much deeper than those of their "outside" friends and comrades.

The individual who's responsible for the team's cohesion, fluidity and work ethic is obviously the gestalt team leader. He makes sure that his team is performing at an acceptable level, that there would not be any personal issues existing between certain teammates, that their well-beings are noted and aided (when necessary), and so forth...

Now, I know that these guys aren't commanding an army or anything, but don't you think these guys have it tough? I mean, I think there would be a great deal of pressure on the team leader--especially during a critical mission--to insure his colleagues execute their orders in an efficient manner, otherwise it's the team leader's rear end on the line. It all comes back to him; he'll cop it, after all.

If I manage to nab a few responses, I'll add to this thread, since it's getting late and I'm feeling a tad sleepy.

I think of it like a computer. On their own, they represent 5 individual PCs. Together, they form a cluster with shared processing, shared short term memory (RAM), and the hard drives.

Which makes me ask, where is the secondary or shared conscience that makes up the total combined form? And my best guess is separate partitions of the same drive that get accessed when only in combined form that the individual entities are unable to access on their own.

So like for example, lets say Deadend has a 100GB hard drive installed. 60GBs of that stores his main conscience and all the memories used to create and manage his unique identity. When he combines with Motormaster and the rest of the stunticons, that 40GB that isn't used when the 60GB is active, becomes the primary partition and is used for the combined hard drive of the combined unit. Meanwhile, that 60GB partition with Deadend's main identity goes dormant or unused.

That would make sense to me. Because honestly, if all 5 members kept their unique identities, then co-ordinating even the simplest of movements would be a multiple answer argument or a major effort of all the parts involved.

It probably varies from team to team.

For example, Computron has little to no personality. Likewise, Devastator is mainly about destruction, little in the way of personality there.

In some teams, the leader's personality probably dominates. In some it's likely that the strongest trait of each becomes part of the whole.

It probably depends on the way the team members relate to eachother, too. A team with a domineering leader would probably have mostly its personality combined. A more compassionate leader might have a combined personality with more input from the other team members.

it's funny you reference Menasor when talking about gestault personality. Menasor's main problem actually stemmed from Motormaster. The Stunticons all hate him so much that their unique personalities refuse to unite when their bodies do, leading Menasor to be unintelligent and prone to mental breakdowns.

It really does come down to the team's cohesion. the Protectobots work well as Defensor because all five members want to help. the Technobots have trouble when united as Computron because he must consider each team member's ideas before he acts.

Predaking is one of the best because all of the Predacons have near identical mentalities.

Others like Devestator, Bruticus, and the Beast, just simply lose any level of thought when they combine together.

adamassc wrote:Others like Devestator, Bruticus, and the Beast, just simply lose any level of thought when they combine together.

Which simply serves to prove that old adage..."none of us are as dumb as all of us." Thank you, ThinkGeek, for that pearl of wisdom...

Lorekeeper wrote:Likewise, Devastator is mainly about destruction, little in the way of personality there.

I find this to be rather ironic, because Devastator's counterparts, the Constructicons, are basically designed to plan and build certain structures, weapons, etc.

Lorekeeper wrote:In some teams, the leader's personality probably dominates. In some it's likely that the strongest trait of each becomes part of the whole.

Yeah, I can definitely see this.

Hot Spot and Motormaster, while being good examples of dominating personalities, in my opinion, offer conflicting methods on how to motivate their respective teams.

Hot Spot, on one hand, leads the Protectobots almost purely by example, his words and actions blazing with an unmatched ardour, while on the other, Motormaster inspires fear and hatred, producing, no doubt, violent verbal and physical displays to "stimulate" the other Stunts into effect.

These two, also, certainly have the strength and size to support their "big personalities". Not that it would ever come to those sort of terms for the Protectobots, since Hot Spot genuinely would inspire the rest to perform at a maximum level, but the Stunticons are definitely another story... Motormaster would just have to be in a sour mood to throw one of the Stunts yet another beating.

Lorekeeper wrote:It probably depends on the way the team members relate to eachother, too. A team with a domineering leader would probably have mostly its personality combined. A more compassionate leader might have a combined personality with more input from the other team members.

Strangely enough, I think the Stunts (minus Motormaster) would be one of the closest 'Con gestalt teams due to their collective loathing of their brutish leader. They can all relate to the intense hatred they feel towards Motormaster, thus--perhaps--creating a tight bond between the four cars. Maybe Motormaster was good for something after all? lol

In my humble opinion, I reckon the Aerialbots would most probably be like this, reflecting equal parts of all their personalities. They appear to be a really tight group, too. And Silverbolt, to me, just seems like the sort of 'Bot who'd encourage, as you just said, more input from his teammates. Well, maybe except for Slingshot...

adamassc wrote:Predaking is one of the best because all of the Predacons have near identical mentalities.

Yep. I agree with this, alright.

adamassc wrote:Others like Devestator, Bruticus, and the Beast, just simply lose any level of thought when they combine together.

I'm still amazed that, despite Onslaught's brilliant military mind, Bruticus acts like such a
dummy. In fact, all of the Combaticons, apart from Brawl, of course, are intelligent, so why doesn't the Combaticon gestalt act a little more brightly? I mean, c'mon! That's unfair!

it's possible that Bruticus is so stupid because the Combaticons are so smart. Maybe their individual minds are so at odds with strategy that the unified persona can't access the intelligence.

For the sunbow cartoon, Bruticus' stupidity probably stems from the fact Starscream built him.

Devestator is prototypical, so perhaps they hadn't really mastered the idea of a combined mentality when he was constructed.



the Beast is made from the Dinobots. I don't really think that needs explained.

Going by the toy bios it seems like all of the gestalt minds are, by default, failures. The Decepticon gestalts are universally unintelligent, as is Superion. To go by the profiles:

Devastator is only able to perform actions that all six members agree on. He acts before he can think through his actions.
Menasor is violently unstable as a result of the Stunticons hating Motormaster. As such, he's literally irrational.
Superion is stated to not be able to handle the five minds and can only concentrate on one thing at a time. Also in the cartoon he speaks slowly and deliberately.
Bruticus is apparently a "successful" merging but he is depicted as incapable of creativity or initiative. In the cartoon he speaks incredibly slowly.
Defensor does appear to be a successful merging in the bio and in the cartoon, though he suffers from mental lapses when Groove's mind wanders.
Abominus is presented as a mindless monsterous killing machine.
Computron processes information far more slowly than any individual bot.
Predaking is described as "not thinking, only reacting".
Pirahnacon blindly hunts down prey without any real conscious thought.

So it appears that G1 combiners are all less effective, mentally, than most individuals.

future combiners seem to have it a little better together. Ruination is not as stupid as Bruticus was. Landfill from RID seems to be controlled exclusively by Wedge, speeding up the thought process, but definately putting a lot of pressure and stress on him.

Energon made the limb bots into mindless drones, similar to the PCC idea.

ROTF's Devestator has an intelligence of 2, as opposed to the (decently) high int. of his parts. this suggests that he, like his G1 namesake, is a prototype and therefore the fusion of their bodies comes at the price of their minds.

The Beast is...a bad one-off idea from a oneshot comic. The gestault itself is less intelligent than the cartoon Dinobots, despite their fairly high intellect in the comic itself

Diem wrote:Going by the toy bios it seems like all of the gestalt minds are, by default, failures. The Decepticon gestalts are universally unintelligent, as is Superion. To go by the profiles:

Devastator is only able to perform actions that all six members agree on. He acts before he can think through his actions.
Menasor is violently unstable as a result of the Stunticons hating Motormaster. As such, he's literally irrational.
Superion is stated to not be able to handle the five minds and can only concentrate on one thing at a time. Also in the cartoon he speaks slowly and deliberately.
Bruticus is apparently a "successful" merging but he is depicted as incapable of creativity or initiative. In the cartoon he speaks incredibly slowly.
Defensor does appear to be a successful merging in the bio and in the cartoon, though he suffers from mental lapses when Groove's mind wanders.
Abominus is presented as a mindless monsterous killing machine.
Computron processes information far more slowly than any individual bot.
Predaking is described as "not thinking, only reacting".
Pirahnacon blindly hunts down prey without any real conscious thought.

So it appears that G1 combiners are all less effective, mentally, than most individuals.

Yes, but out of all these Predaking, Pirahnacon and Defensor are most effective because they share common thinking or goals. I'm not phrasing that right, but becase their components share the same set of ideals or desires the combined forms work better than most. Not that they're brain surgeons, but a '3' techspec score for intelligence is better than a '2'.

in Computron's defense, the reason he's so slow to act is because he's considering the situation before him from every possible angle, considering all the available data, and running every possible scenario.

to paraphrase teletraan 1: Computron always arrives at the right decision, but usually too late.

As for Silverbolt's and the Aerialbots flaws, it makes sense to me since I have a similar train of thought to them. (why Silverbolt my favorite transformer in both G1 and beast wars, I find both highly relateable.) I am afraid of heights myself, and ironicly wanted be a pilot, the protector of my 4 siblings and love jets. (I worked on F-16s in the air force.) When I was distracted from my fears, I stop worrying about how I am and can just focus on doing my job. I can always fight harder for someone else than I ever could for myself or my ego.


The Silverbolt and the Aerialbots as a whole are all littered with flaws despite the ability to excel beyond most the autobots. It's only when something forces them rise about their personal BS do they realize their potential.

This is made most clear in their transformation to Superion. As Superion all non-mission related thoughts as suppressed and deemed unimportant. They ultimately care more about others than themselves(Silverbolt especially) , so when they re called into action that's when they stop dwelling on their flaws as it draws their courage and strength out of them. They approach near suicidal levels of devotion as Superion because of this as they have laser like focus on their task. They won't stop till they succeed or die trying.(which they kamikazed in one comic series into a nuke to save others by blowing it up over the ocean.) It's probably why their motto united was "To live is to fight; to die is to stop."

The Stunticons are equally interesting psychology behind them. It's fitting the smallest combiner team (both as a toy and actuality scales) has a small man complex. Motormaster is like the Cain marko (juggernaut) of the transformers world, and despite his ability, has an inferiority complex to both Megatron and Optimus Prime.(in same regard cain does to professor X.) He wants to prove he's truly King of the road, and if Megatron defeats Prime he never can do this. he then lashes out on his own team, which they all despise him for it.

So when they all merge into Menasor they become this berserker of rage and hatred. Their selfloathing becomes personified and turned on whatever target they can vent it against. They're doing to others what they wish they could do to Motormaster, but they unfortunately need him. So you have this really unbalanced combiner who's just this vicious, unpredictable, and fast WMD. Like Superion he has little value on himself, and will just recklessly wade into battle, just for completely opposite reasons. (though Menasor I think has a bit more selfpreservation as they're usually ones who retreat.)

Defensor is like a super sized Trailbreaker, as he has a force field too. The Protectobots collectively aren't as offensive, but that's like why of the 3 autobot combiners, they re mentally the most balanced.

Computron just thinks too damn slow(the reverse of Devastator's problem instead of only being able to do simple commands due to it's overall high intelligence it simply takes longer to come to a conclusion.) , and Superion can't multitask for the life of him and is too reckless at times.

I wish the Decepticons combiners had alittle more variety, as majority of them upon forming become dumb as rocks most the time. Predaking probably only one that's mentally stable since all it's components love to hunt. Bruticus and Devastator are both dumb, Devastator due to his extreme lvls of finesse being watered down to being a simpleton, and Bruticus becomes the ultimate soldier, and does nothing unless it's told to. Abombinus is by far the strongest, but the dumbest and slowest of the lot. He has to wreck everything, as it's got like OCD, he doesn't follow orders well because of that. Menasor is average intelligence, but too angry to do anything elaborate.

Combiners ultimately are powerful, but it comes at a price. At what price is different each time though. They do have the advantage over giant super warriors like Omega supreme and Broadside of not being stuck at full size and being the SUVs of transformers. They can unite on demand rather, but then can be separated at inoportune times is the trade off. It makes them interesting though as later Combiners like in Armada, lacked that psychology aspect with the limbs just being drones for the main component that formed the body.