The Energon Pub

Well, after getting involved with arguements concerning GeeWunners, why Transformers should go back to the 80's, why the movieverse should go die or be immortal, or what continuities should have reboots and others should perish, I realized something. You see, I had posted a thread titled "Has TF Lost it's Magic?". At the time, I was disappointed with the slightly fewer products available now than the were about six years ago, and thought TF was losing what it used to have and tumbling down hill. Then I got into the "GeeWunners: Myth or Fact?" brawl, and a few others in which people were throwing slag at each other.
It all of a sudden came to me. In the midst of a huge fan base of close-minded people that have to yell at each other for just enjoying some part of TFs, there is only one reason why Transformers could be "Ruined FOREVER". It's not Hasbro or TakaraTomy. It's not the continuity from the mind of Michael Bay. It's not loving G1 too much either...


It's US.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:It's US.

Indeed. It's the people that are the problem. Not the designs, not the companies, but the people.

I don't know where our sense of entitlement came from, but it's ridiculous and it has to go.

We're not entitled to a damn thing, we're just lucky we're included when they have an idea.

I used to be one of those whiners, but I realized that I was adding to the problem, not helping it.

Some figures won't be my cup of tea, some will. Some will suffer from terrible QC, some will be excellent.

Either way, nothing's perfect and we shouldn't demand it. There's too many people wanting to have a voice, when we should all just shut up for 10 seconds.

i wouldn't get so upset about it guys..jeez. Who cares. Like what you like and people like what they like.
Bitching and griping or exulting accolades over a figure or line is all part of the "FORUMS"!!
It's all open for discussion and opinion whether negative of positive.
I personally find it all very interesting. It's why i keep coming back.

Surely its the diversity that galvanises us together?

MightyMagnus78 wrote:Surely its the diversity that galvanises us together?

Rest of Seibertron community: "Wait, what does diversity mean?" Oh, that's like yelling at each other for enjoying something else right?"
I wish people would accept diversity and shut up.

monstergrotusque wrote:i wouldn't get so upset about it guys..jeez. Who cares. Like what you like and people like what they like.
Bitching and griping or exulting accolades over a figure or line is all part of the "FORUMS"!!
It's all open for discussion and opinion whether negative of positive.
I personally find it all very interesting. It's why i keep coming back.

Yeah, my point is that we should all stop making this a big deal and get over it. I don't want some guy to keep writing bloody hell over all my posts that give a thumbs up to Michael Bay. There's pretty much a forum for everyone, and I don't see why people keep swarming to criticize a post which annoys them, instead of leaving it be.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

monstergrotusque wrote:i wouldn't get so upset about it guys..jeez. Who cares. Like what you like and people like what they like.
Bitching and griping or exulting accolades over a figure or line is all part of the "FORUMS"!!
It's all open for discussion and opinion whether negative of positive.
I personally find it all very interesting. It's why i keep coming back.

Yeah, my point is that we should all stop making this a big deal and get over it. I don't want some guy to keep writing bloody hell over all my posts that give a thumbs up to Michael Bay. There's pretty much a forum for everyone, and I don't see why people keep swarming to criticize a post which annoys them, instead of leaving it be.

Because people are not actively seeking peace. They thrive on the fighting. They live for it, it seems.

To be fair, sometimes we let our opinions get the better of us and just say what we feel and then think better of it later, but the damage has already been done.

For the most part, however, they just want to troll.

This is why I'm starting to hate fandoms. I mean HATE.

Autobot032 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

monstergrotusque wrote:i wouldn't get so upset about it guys..jeez. Who cares. Like what you like and people like what they like.
Bitching and griping or exulting accolades over a figure or line is all part of the "FORUMS"!!
It's all open for discussion and opinion whether negative of positive.
I personally find it all very interesting. It's why i keep coming back.

Yeah, my point is that we should all stop making this a big deal and get over it. I don't want some guy to keep writing bloody hell over all my posts that give a thumbs up to Michael Bay. There's pretty much a forum for everyone, and I don't see why people keep swarming to criticize a post which annoys them, instead of leaving it be.

Because people are not actively seeking peace. They thrive on the fighting. They live for it, it seems.

To be fair, sometimes we let our opinions get the better of us and just say what we feel and then think better of it later, but the damage has already been done.

For the most part, however, they just want to troll.

This is why I'm starting to hate fandoms. I mean HATE.

This is why I'm starting to hate humanity. Because it happens everywhere. Not just fandoms.

Only one person has ruined TF's for me, and that's myself. There is a host of reasons from setting my own standards in what I want in a figure/storyline to not being able to enjoy my collection how I want to.

Have others ruined it for me? Absoloutely not. I enjoy a good discussion, I don't expect people to agree with me, I just expect them to respect my differing opinion.

Sadly though, there are a lot of people, not just in the fandom, but around the world, who have forgotten how to be respectful, after all, it's so much easier to hide behind the anonymity of their monitors and say whatever they want and not expect repurcussions.

pickyness the 8th deadly sin
its like the weather its to hot or its to cold were never satisfied are we?
humanity has never had it so good and we cant whate to pick a fight im on koie a dynasty warriors sight its the same thare utter bitchyness
your right its the fans that make a franchise and its fans that can ruin it
ok im a newby and im a girl i like comics and
( storry )
i once went to a comic shop in my town the only one we had it did american comics ghostrider alpha flight this was the early 90s i was 13 and geeky
the guy was a pillock and kept on trying to get me to leve as i wasnt one of his target customers namely a boy
my point the eleatest fans can ruin every thing and chase away the new fans

OptiMagnus10 wrote:It's US.

Pft. Not me.

I'm blameless and super-cool.

I'm like Travolta in Hollywood after Pulp Fiction cool.

what a scientologest?
admitadly the ongly one i can stand
but tom cruse TOM CRUSE
i cant even watch last samurai now i wanted to see valkery

I wholeheartedly agree it's the fans themselves that seem to ruin the fun, and I'm speaking in a general sense. It's in varying degrees, yeah, some are worse than others, but we are all guilty to ruining the fun of someone else's hobby. Even in the most innovative, the most perfect, we somehow manage to find something, a glaring error, to bitch and moan about to no end.

Let's face it, nothing's good enough for us.

Counterpunch wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:It's US.

Pft. Not me.

I'm blameless and super-cool.

I'm like Travolta in Hollywood after Pulp Fiction cool.

What he said.

Except I'm like Eastwood after The Good the Bad and the Ugly cool. I mean cool.

Autobot032 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:It's US.

Indeed. It's the people that are the problem. Not the designs, not the companies, but the people.

I don't know where our sense of entitlement came from, but it's ridiculous and it has to go.

We're not entitled to a damn thing, we're just lucky we're included when they have an idea.

I used to be one of those whiners, but I realized that I was adding to the problem, not helping it.

Some figures won't be my cup of tea, some will. Some will suffer from terrible QC, some will be excellent.

Either way, nothing's perfect and we shouldn't demand it. There's too many people wanting to have a voice, when we should all just shut up for 10 seconds.

OFT.

There are a lot of things to complain about but there are a LOT of things to be thankful for. Masterpiece,Encore,TFC,Commemorative.....I could go on and on.

Granted that though I saw both Bayformers and marveled at the tech that rendered them to life like proportions, I still stuck to the G1 toys. Didn't bellyache over them. The TFA storyline gradually won me over, but i really hated the chins, again didn't bellyache over it. So, if there's anything to complain about or ruin the brand, well maybe the suits in corporate Hasbro,some of their recent decisions were kind of iffy (with the exception of the Generations series....that's a good start)

So I think let's wait and see first before passing judgment.

Slow down.

Firstly, doublecheck whether or not Transformers have been ruined forever.Is that what you honestly believe?

I believe they haven't, and that few people actually feel that they have.In 25 years, everyone will look back on this period and judge it cleanly, including us, the movie people, the book people and the toy people.I reckon we'll all say this is a period of craziness.Like the chaos explosions ya know? all raw matter, no real outlines and firmament until later, just one big jumble of everything.

Folks hear about a cinematization of an existing story and assume it will be a redo of the classic version of the story.In my experience, I thought TF1 would be a 'classic example of a typical G1 episode', especially after I heard a major character would die, I thought "fight".

Thing is: Nobody specifically said that it would be the old Universe, and nobody specifically said it would be a new Universe, until way after FANS started to say it to each other, as far as I know, unless it happened when the first few hundred members were still here, way before the next few thousand signed on.
By the time I got here, this place was a shambles.Who to blame and what to appreciate or hate was a shifting landscape.
I had my own feelings. I tried to share them. Political correctness makes us need to speak with half a mouth, and Post topics make us need to speak with half a word.Someone is always in danger of being offended, including us.It gets dragged on. Folks get tired,drop out, change opinions, change my opinion sometimes.It's just evolution.The only hard part is getting into arguments with someone you respect and want to hear from, and knowing it's gonna turn out bad...

The Geewunner post is an expression of something that bugs me here about reliability. That's why, in it, I ask "If we're going to have an interfering factor, can we make it a real one, please?".I was angry when I posted it,because I felt 'a trend' was 'creating' a fake enemy (whilst I also feel 'a trend' has at times prevented problems from being allowed to be discussed to their full natural conclusion), and I expected a brawl to erupt for completely off topic reasons. Assumed I'd leave and never come back here, but it turned out to be totally educational for me and made me change my whole attitude towards TFs-thing is, Fanbases are gonna fight, and they're gonna lose and pick up people along the way.It's the topics that our contribution can matter towards,not what we can hear being said, it'll be an old fashion in a week so why rely on it?.Our beliefs won't go anywhere without being convinced to go.The conversations are amazing when we're ready to listen to the opposite opinion.

And if fans ruined TFs,it's not the fans who ruined TFs ALONE. Maybe we ruin TF discussions,ourselves,seibertron.com, the appropriate words we should be using, Hasbros' freedom to name anything anything and color anything anything but we don't manufacture Transformers and THEN complain, rewrite non-continuing continuities and THEN complain, re-release half lines and THEN complain or NOT give the next evolution a go and THEN complain.We don't do this to ourselves, yaknow? We I mean, if Seibertron himself protested about Megatrons head, why should we all hide in a box? We inherited that from him (the capability to protest like civil people, not the box).

Ps: I like what Autobot 032 said about our sense of entitlement. It's the sense of passing the spirit (in design) of our old TFs on that used to be meaningful to me. Entitlement to the next group. I still think Takara sees it that way, a little, in their own way, but only for our group so far, not the next.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Well, after getting involved with arguements concerning GeeWunners, why Transformers should go back to the 80's, why the movieverse should go die or be immortal, or what continuities should have reboots and others should perish, I realized something. You see, I had posted a thread titled "Has TF Lost it's Magic?". At the time, I was disappointed with the slightly fewer products available now than the were about six years ago, and thought TF was losing what it used to have and tumbling down hill. Then I got into the "GeeWunners: Myth or Fact?" brawl, and a few others in which people were throwing slag at each other.
It all of a sudden came to me. In the midst of a huge fan base of close-minded people that have to yell at each other for just enjoying some part of TFs, there is only one reason why Transformers could be "Ruined FOREVER". It's not Hasbro or TakaraTomy. It's not the continuity from the mind of Michael Bay. It's not loving G1 too much either...


It's US.

There wasn't a 'brawl' in the geewunners thread that I recall. Maybe you're just hypersensitive?
I don't think there is anything that will 'ruin TFs forever', just periods of things being released that don't interest you. In which case Takara usually release something or other to keep me interested like THS Convoy during Cybertron, TFC reissues during Armada-Energon etc.
I do think there is a tendency for old schoolers to compare to G1 or Beast Wars which were of higher quality [that'll get some of you to kick off], to which they often come off unfavourably.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

monstergrotusque wrote:i wouldn't get so upset about it guys..jeez. Who cares. Like what you like and people like what they like.
Bitching and griping or exulting accolades over a figure or line is all part of the "FORUMS"!!
It's all open for discussion and opinion whether negative of positive.
I personally find it all very interesting. It's why i keep coming back.

Yeah, my point is that we should all stop making this a big deal and get over it. I don't want some guy to keep writing bloody hell over all my posts that give a thumbs up to Michael Bay. There's pretty much a forum for everyone, and I don't see why people keep swarming to criticize a post which annoys them, instead of leaving it be.

Because people are not actively seeking peace. They thrive on the fighting. They live for it, it seems.

To be fair, sometimes we let our opinions get the better of us and just say what we feel and then think better of it later, but the damage has already been done.

For the most part, however, they just want to troll.

This is why I'm starting to hate fandoms. I mean HATE.

This is why I'm starting to hate humanity. Because it happens everywhere. Not just fandoms.

What Sly says. Too bad I didn't have a personal Megatron to tell people to shut up for me. He's more convincing.

US...

...ruining Transformers since 1985!

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:
Firstly, doublecheck whether or not Transformers have been ruined forever.Is that what you honestly believe?

I believe they haven't, and that few people actually feel that they have.In 25 years, everyone will look back on this period and judge it cleanly, including us, the movie people, the book people and the toy people.

I had my own feelings. I tried to share them. Political correctness makes us need to speak with half a mouth, and Post topics make us need to speak with half a word.Someone is always in danger of being offended, including us.It gets dragged on. Folks get tired,drop out, change opinions, change my opinion sometimes.It's just evolution.The only hard part is getting into arguments with someone you respect and want to hear from, and knowing it's gonna turn out bad...

Fanbases are gonna fight, and they're gonna lose and pick up people along the way.It's the topics that our contribution can matter towards,not what we can hear being said, it'll be an old fashion in a week so why rely on it?

And if fans ruined TFs,it's not the fans who ruined TFs ALONE. Maybe we ruin TF discussions,ourselves,seibertron.com, the appropriate words we should be using, Hasbros' freedom to name anything anything and color anything anything but we don't manufacture Transformers and THEN complain, rewrite non-continuing continuities and THEN complain, re-release half lines and THEN complain or NOT give the next evolution a go and THEN complain.We don't do this to ourselves, yaknow?

I appreciate your thoughts. I usually agree with your opinions, but a few things in this one I disagree with.
1. What I should have said is "Why TF COULD Eventually Become Ruined FOREVER". I don't think it actually is ruined now.
2. I think we will all laugh at ourselves yelling at each other. I can imagine people bringing it up once in a while like we kind of do with RID now: "Remember the movies? Where Bumblebee was a Camaro and stuff? Man I wish they'd bring back the toys."
3. Thank you Smoketreader! I hate political correctness. We never speak what we want to speak anymore. Ex: Society expects me to stop being a Christian and refrain form references to Christmas, or a Jew to stop saying "Happy Hannukah", instead call them the "Holidays". I shouldn't have to hold back my TF views either.
4. Yeah we forget the slag as soon as we think of it.
5. Ah HA! Here it is! As always, someone totally misses what the subject is and starts pointing fingers. I'm saying people enter things with certain preconceived, self-conceived expectations in which they go buzzerk when the result is not what was expected. Hasbro is merely doing what they think is good for the franchise, or "experimentation" with new concepts. The problem is that we have the hardest time accepting change, so we push the blame on something else. We do in fact do this to ourselves. There will always be the group(s) that want(s) to ruin the fun and start a rant. You are saying that Hasbro is ruining Transformers through change and discontinuing lines, so you did nothing to contribute to the ruination. What is actually happening is you are saying your opinion is fact, and Hasbro is the problem by doing stuff you don't like. It's when we make Hasbro's job that much harder by telling them how to do their job that we try to kill the characters we love. And actually, I do disagree with some of Hasbro's actions, some which you mentioned. This isn't relevant to this discussion, though. I've learned that criticizing them for every move they make only contributes to the problem, not fix it. We are just making TF less enjoyable for one another by making TF seem bad because of Hasbro, or Mike Bay, or whatever, and telling everone the way it should be.

Burn wrote:Only one person has ruined TF's for me, and that's myself. There is a host of reasons from setting my own standards in what I want in a figure/storyline to not being able to enjoy my collection how I want to.

Have others ruined it for me? Absoloutely not. I enjoy a good discussion, I don't expect people to agree with me, I just expect them to respect my differing opinion.

Sadly though, there are a lot of people, not just in the fandom, but around the world, who have forgotten how to be respectful, after all, it's so much easier to hide behind the anonymity of their monitors and say whatever they want and not expect repurcussions.

Listen to this man! Everyone!

MightyMagnus78 wrote:US...

...ruining Transformers since 1985!

If this was a Facebook status, I would "Like" it. Well said buddy.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:Ps: I like what Autobot 032 said about our sense of entitlement. It's the sense of passing the spirit (in design) of our old TFs on that used to be meaningful to me. Entitlement to the next group. I still think Takara sees it that way, a little, in their own way, but only for our group so far, not the next.

No...

I'm really not sure where you're going with this, but you've misunderstood my post.

We believe we're owed something. We believe it should be this way or that way, and all other ways are wrong. (Change the generation, but the end result is still the same.)

We are owed NOTHING. We have no reason to feel a sense of entitlement.

Hasbro and Takara cater to us because we help with sales to a very, very small and unimportant percentage of the overall profit. Plus it's a thank you for the decades of brand loyalty. If it wasn't for us being loyal and us not being profitable, we'd be told to go do something with ourselves.

We are owed nothing, we deserve nothing (but respect, and we get far more than that), and we shouldn't be asking.

That's what I was talking about, I have absolutely no idea where you were going.

I don't know. Bay seems to be trying his hardest to baysplode the live action franchise, but...ruining Transformers entirely? PFFF. Even BAY can't destroy a franchise this old and big. He can't even ruin movieverse for me, which has given us things like Reign of Starscream and Alliance.

I'm not fond of some of the microcontinuities--Ironhide didn't do so much for me, and Exodus made my brain bleed with Teh Crappiness, but even then, *shrug*.

I don't like the stories? I can find fanfiction. I don't like a figure? I can find fanart I love, or some fantastic kitbashes.

Sure, fans can ruin something (the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons--he's funny b/c it's true!!!!) but they can also make up, in my mind, for a LOT. Without fans, there wouldn't be good RPGs, fanart, art, fiction, cosplay, botcon, etc, etc, etc.

HK, optimistic? me?!?!