The Energon Pub

I've gotten my girlfriend involved in Transformers and by far her two faves are Prime and Arcee. What gets to me though is there aren't that many female Transformers. With all of the Transformers out there, wouldn't, shouldn't it make sense to have more female? Wouldn't be cool to see them as something as more than a novelty? If you look at the psychology of a robot species doesn't it make sense for there to be just as many female as there are male, because the whole female perspective is very different from the male and helps with problem solving? Some types I was thinking of would be:

Autobot Female: Bruta
Robot Body Type: Mountian Girl
Vehicle Mode: 18 wheeler

Decepticon Female: Skylark
Robot Body Type: Thin frail creepy looking
Vehicle Mode: F-35

Autobot Female: Anchora
Robot Body Type: Voluptuous
Vehicle Mode: Corvette

Decepticon Female: Matron
Robot Body Type: Thin and sleak
Vehicle Mode: Cybertronian light aircraft

These are just a few ideas, but damn if I couldn't see an entire planet filled with female Transformers that consider the males to be idiots never letting go of war, while they live in a functioning society with them in the vast majority and the stories then focusing on transformer criminals, and politics and weapons manufacture so the males destroy one another. Just a thought.

Maybe I want more out of my Transformers than, "They fightfightfight, fightfightfight, it's the Itchy and Scr_ Oppy and Meggy show!"

Simple answers:

1: It's a boys toy line. How many boys are there in Barbie toy lines anyway?
2: They're robots, they don't reproduce the same way we do (let's NOT go beyond that, please).

1) There's a lot of girls into transformers as well. And I've seen a fair amount of older guys into Barbie and Mattel sells to them as well.

2) Yeah, think of how great it would be if there was a series of stories in which sex wasn't an issue for male and female! Transformers would be a great resource for that.

3) He-man is a toy series but I've seen just as many boys into it as She-ra.

knightedfeline wrote:1) There's a lot of girls into transformers as well. And I've seen a fair amount of older guys into Barbie and Mattel sells to them as well.

You guys don't know how many females are really into Transformers. You won't believe the amount until you've met/hung out with them. I am one of those females. I prefer male series my self over anything female such as Barbies. I mean, my current obsessions/series includes TMNT, Transformers and Thundercats. But many of these are childhood fandoms that have arisen over the past few years because of the friends that I have who are into the same things I am.

knightedfeline wrote:1) There's a lot of girls into transformers as well. And I've seen a fair amount of older guys into Barbie and Mattel sells to them as well.

That doesn't change their target audience, in this case, little boys. And I don't see that many boys buying, for instance, barbie dolls. In fact, Arcee was slated to have a toy in G1, only to be canceled for that reason: too girly.

Don't get me wrong, I like female Transformers as much as any other. But I am realistic about the limits set.

I honestly think we can apply this to most sci-fi and fantasy genres of story.

Female characters are generally novelties in these type of stories.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
That doesn't change their target audience, in this case, little boys. And I don't see that many boys buying, for instance, barbie dolls.

Actually, I've often wondered who did the marketing research on these types of things. In my experience as a female Transformers fan (who even had her first Transformers bought new in the 80's), boys were/are as likely to own female characters' toys and girls to own male characters' toys (or any other items like comics, sports, etc) as the other way around. Check out some of the threads in the Non-TF Toys Forum for examples of those female figures owned by males!! Not your grandma's Barbie.

I still collect and play with Transformers. The one thing I don't have? Female Transformers! I don't know what that says except that I don't like the ultra feminine Arcee type. The Arcee in Transformers Prime appeals to me more altho I don't care for the show.

As to why there aren't more, that's a good question. If you are going to throw females into the mix to begin with (altho they may not be needed at all in the world of Transformers), wouldn't common sense dictate there should be a much more equal ratio (depending on your explanation for their reproduction)? I personally don't mind the lack but it is kind of odd.

CelticDragon wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:


Actually, I've often wondered who did the marketing research on these types of things.

I wonder myself. Heck this is an era in which so much of our understanding is changing, why not our toys. I thought it would be great for little boys to actually get a chance to see how to interact with females, in a manner that isn't quite so chauvinistic.

Heck I grew up playing with Teela, Evil-Lyn, She-ra, Princess Liea, Steel Heart, Cheetara, and any other. The world of play always felt so empty without female characters. True boys are going to lean towards males in play, but you try and take their female characters away and see how badly they react.

But as for how Transformers reproduce, I've always thought it was two transformers got together, built a body and then used their sparks to ignite the third or they were just built like the Dinobots by a character/s that knew how to make Transformers.

CelticDragon wrote:Actually, I've often wondered who did the marketing research on these types of things.

Hasbro did, when they decided to market specifically to young boys.

CelticDragon wrote:As to why there aren't more, that's a good question. If you are going to throw females into the mix to begin with (altho they may not be needed at all in the world of Transformers), wouldn't common sense dictate there should be a much more equal ratio (depending on your explanation for their reproduction)? I personally don't mind the lack but it is kind of odd.

In the Aligned Continuity, something like 13% of Transformers are female. In IDW continuity, female Transformers didn't exist until Jhiaxus turned Arcee into one, just to see what would happen if there were gender differences in the species.

The answer: nothing, which is the more realistic answer when you consider they don't reproduce like organic species and thus have no need for females, or indeed genders of any kind.

Real life answer: It is not targeted at girls, even if some girls owned the toys. It's also not targeted at adults, who make up the vast majority of this site. As has been explained, the franchise is targeted at young boys. Everyone else is, at best, an afterthought.

knightedfeline wrote:Maybe I want more out of my Transformers than, "They fightfightfight, fightfightfight, it's the Itchy and Scr_ Oppy and Meggy show!"

Read romantic fanfics. They'll probably cure you soon enough.

There were always female Autobots in the cartoon going right back to G1, The search for Alpha trion, for example first gave us Elita One, Moonracer, Firestar and Cromia.

Why Hasbro never produced female Transformers toys at the time, I don't know, it was probably some corporate think tank that decided it was a bad idea or something and the fact they weren't really established characters.

I think the most plausible explanation is that Transformers, at that time, were simply re-decos of Takara Diaclone molds which were not gender specific but had very masculine features. As Takara never produced a 'feminine' mold for Diaclone, perhaps the cost of producing new characters with new associated molds was just to expensive at that time and therefore not economically viable.

Shadowman wrote:

CelticDragon wrote:Actually, I've often wondered who did the marketing research on these types of things.

Hasbro did, when they decided to market specifically to young boys.

I think perhaps you misunderstood. I know Hasbro decided to target young boys. The question I have is why Hasbro decided young boys didn't want female characters.

CelticDragon wrote:As to why there aren't more, that's a good question. If you are going to throw females into the mix to begin with (altho they may not be needed at all in the world of Transformers), wouldn't common sense dictate there should be a much more equal ratio (depending on your explanation for their reproduction)? I personally don't mind the lack but it is kind of odd.

Shadowman wrote:In the Aligned Continuity, something like 13% of Transformers are female. In IDW continuity, female Transformers didn't exist until Jhiaxus turned Arcee into one, just to see what would happen if there were gender differences in the species.

Yes, I know this. So why have any females in the toy aisle? But there are. So the question then becomes why not more??

Shadowman wrote:The answer: nothing, which is the more realistic answer when you consider they don't reproduce like organic species and thus have no need for females, or indeed genders of any kind.

Exactly. So there should be no females based on this idea. But since there are female transformers, why not more? Because Hasbro decided boys don't want female characters? We covered that in the above discussion, this might not be accurate and perhaps Hasbro's marketing isn't reflecting what children (or adults) want.

Shadowman wrote:Real life answer: It is not targeted at girls, even if some girls owned the toys. It's also not targeted at adults, who make up the vast majority of this site. As has been explained, the franchise is targeted at young boys. Everyone else is, at best, an afterthought.

Um, right. But boys obviously do buy female figures and adult boys are clamoring for the female characters. As the afterthought here, I couldn't care less if there was one female Transformer and I didn't start the thread. Someone who I presume is a male did that and wanted to know.

Shadowman: I wouldn't say nothing would come about, it's very true that men and women think differently and approach things differently. I don't think the change would be immediate, but there would be a change.

RhA: Oh, I've come across a few of those. YIKES! Megs and Scream? Really? Seriously? *shudders*
It just seems to me that Transformers would have a culture that isn't focused solely on war. Even the Spartans had concepts of culture and philosophy. (Mind you it was mostly how to be manly and rise in power, how that power was to be used, but it was a culture.) Otherwise Transformers becomes nothing more than the metaphor of the US's own cultural war; a war of whether it's better to obey, or think independently. (A debate that goes back to the Greek golden era.)

CelticDragon wrote:
Um, right. But boys obviously do buy female figures and adult boys are clamoring for the female characters. As the afterthought here, I couldn't care less if there was one female Transformer and I didn't start the thread. Someone who I presume is a male did that and wanted to know.

That's right I am male. I was raised by a woman and I have seen how strong and powerful they can be. I'd put them up against any male. So, my question is more about why, in this so called age of equality, do females get treated so $#!tily, when it comes to toys? Were are the woman, boys can grow up to admire? Arcee is great. Arcee is fun, but by the gods there's more female types than Arcee and Blackarachnia. It's the same basic archetype of Goddess and Whore. Can't we see more than these to archetypes and this body design? All I'm asking is for a little pepper in my chicken broth.

knightedfeline wrote:Maybe I want more out of my Transformers than, "They fightfightfight, fightfightfight, it's the Itchy and Scr_ Oppy and Meggy show!"

I didn't notice this before, and I wanted to comment on it: That's the entire point of the franchise.

knightedfeline wrote:Shadowman: I wouldn't say nothing would come about, it's very true that men and women think differently and approach things differently. I don't think the change would be immediate, but there would be a change.

Nothing has come of it. They don't perform anything that differentiates from the males, and I mean that on every level. Before Spotlight Arcee, Simon Furman said he wouldn't include female Transformers until he could think of a good reason for them to exist. "Because a mad scientist wanted to see if they could" was the best he came up with.

That said, what change are we talking about here? Because while women may approach things differently in day to day life, female soldiers approach things the same way as the men.

Shadowman wrote:That said, what change are we talking about here? Because while women may approach things differently in day to day life, female soldiers approach things the same way as the men.

That's because female soldiers are trained in male tradition of combat and trained in specific techniques. When it comes to how women approach things there are significant differences. Just off the top of my head, women are more detailed oriented than men, they're generally quicker thinkers, and have longer memories. Women are usually crueler than men as well as more vicious. Women are usually more protective and will suffer more hurt and pain than a male before reacting. Generally women are even more spiritual and social. If you have a society which is all one gender, then you only have a single perspective. More female transformers just means more diversity. That's my main point.

After all, how many incarnations of Ironhide, Optimus Prime, Starscream, Prowel, Cliffjumper, Bumblebee, Megatron, Ratchett, Jazz, and so forth are there going to be before we become sick of them? That's something I'll give BW, it wasn't the same characters at least they had variation. With those basics, just those basics in mind, imagine what it would be like to have a female Ironhide or any of the others. Imagine a Prime that would torment Megs and then finish him off? Imagine a Megs that was concerned with whittling down Prime to weaken, and cause Prime to loose so much hope, he'd want to kill himself.

I don't care to see Transformer romances, to me, that's kinda like Oedipus to talk about all of his sexual conquests in detail. I'm just so sick of seeing the same thing, over and over and over and over and over and over.

hey it counts!









Need I post more?

Yes. Please!

But where are their figures? Are they in every series like Ironhide and the others? Beyond Elita are any of them leaders?

Never saw Strika before or Roulette or Shadow Striker. Cool.

Loved Slipstream. She made Animated worth it to me. Never saw the other fembots in Animated, except BA and RC (but then again, I haven't finished Animated.)

Loved all the series incarnations of Black Arachnia, but not always their figures. The first Black Arachnia figure was bad.

Airazor was good, but not in there that long to really develop and also suffered from bad figureitus.

Good examples of female transformers, but where's are they as characters? If as I stated in another post that Transformers are nothing more than a metaphor for the cultural war going on in the US, then it means that more female Transformers are needed to represent more ideas of either side. If Transformers are a fictional society of clashing warriors fighting over energy reserves then females Transformers are needed for diversity. If Transformers are a metaphor for good versus evil then female Transformers are needed to give that fight a fuller perspective and it begins to breach into territories that most TF fans are uncomfortable with. If Transformers is just a stupid little show, who's only purpose entertain, then the TF might as well go whole hog and rip out cooling hoses, use magic bullets, and change into unicorns and butterflies. Every story has elements it must have to tell the full story, otherwise you're always going to be left with an unfinished one.

knightedfeline wrote:

Shadowman wrote:That said, what change are we talking about here? Because while women may approach things differently in day to day life, female soldiers approach things the same way as the men.

That's because female soldiers are trained in male tradition of combat and trained in specific techniques. When it comes to how women approach things there are significant differences. Just off the top of my head, women are more detailed oriented than men, they're generally quicker thinkers, and have longer memories. Women are usually crueler than men as well as more vicious. Women are usually more protective and will suffer more hurt and pain than a male before reacting. Generally women are even more spiritual and social. If you have a society which is all one gender, then you only have a single perspective. More female transformers just means more diversity. That's my main point.

That's just a bit on the insulting side. Do you have anything to back any of that up? I mean, Mythbusters confirmed the part about women being able to take more pain, but do you have anything to back up the rest of it?

knightedfeline wrote:Imagine a Prime that would torment Megs and then finish him off?

That was movie Prime. He had a tendency to insult his opponents as he fought them, and preferred quicker, more brutal finishers.

knightedfeline wrote:Imagine a Megs that was concerned with whittling down Prime to weaken, and cause Prime to loose so much hope, he'd want to kill himself.

That was one of the goals of Kefka in Final Fantasy VI, not to kill the heroes but to kill their hope. Kefka, mind you, was not a woman. Damn good villain, though.

Do you have any other "female tactics" that have already been used by men?

(By the way, there WAS a female Prime. Solus Prime, a weaponsmith and one of the Original 13)

knightedfeline wrote:I've gotten my girlfriend involved in Transformers and by far her two faves are Prime and Arcee. What gets to me though is there aren't that many female Transformers. With all of the Transformers out there, wouldn't, shouldn't it make sense to have more female? Wouldn't be cool to see them as something as more than a novelty? If you look at the psychology of a robot species doesn't it make sense for there to be just as many female as there are male, because the whole female perspective is very different from the male and helps with problem solving? Some types I was thinking of would be:

Autobot Female: Bruta
Robot Body Type: Mountian Girl
Vehicle Mode: 18 wheeler

Decepticon Female: Skylark
Robot Body Type: Thin frail creepy looking
Vehicle Mode: F-35

Autobot Female: Anchora
Robot Body Type: Voluptuous
Vehicle Mode: Corvette

Decepticon Female: Matron
Robot Body Type: Thin and sleak
Vehicle Mode: Cybertronian light aircraft

These are just a few ideas, but damn if I couldn't see an entire planet filled with female Transformers that consider the males to be idiots never letting go of war, while they live in a functioning society with them in the vast majority and the stories then focusing on transformer criminals, and politics and weapons manufacture so the males destroy one another. Just a thought.

Maybe I want more out of my Transformers than, "They fightfightfight, fightfightfight, it's the Itchy and Scr_ Oppy and Meggy show!"

This is similiar to ideas I tend to play around with myself. I always find myself in the minority of being bored of a storyline that is overly focused on fighting.
As a child I started to create my own chars, because I saw the series lacking in female chars.
I did just that, I would create my own place populated by mostly female TFs.

My other complaint is when there are female TF chars, is how they are protrayed.
I hate female TFs that look like giant women who can't transform into anything.
The message is that male TFs can have variety and females must conform to limited "feminine" forms.
Or that the purpose of female TFs is to be a male TF's lover. I don't care if there's romance in TF or not. I do object when that's the only purpose of the existance of females.

I am glad I never saw some of these female TF chars as a child. Actually I wish I never saw them now either now that I think about it. I am glad at least something is improving.

knightedfeline wrote:Yes. Please!

But where are their figures? Are they in every series like Ironhide and the others? Beyond Elita are any of them leaders?

Never saw Strika before or Roulette or Shadow Striker. Cool.

Loved Slipstream. She made Animated worth it to me. Never saw the other fembots in Animated, except BA and RC (but then again, I haven't finished Animated.)

Loved all the series incarnations of Black Arachnia, but not always their figures. The first Black Arachnia figure was bad.

Airazor was good, but not in there that long to really develop and also suffered from bad figureitus.

Good examples of female transformers, but where's are they as characters? If as I stated in another post that Transformers are nothing more than a metaphor for the cultural war going on in the US, then it means that more female Transformers are needed to represent more ideas of either side. If Transformers are a fictional society of clashing warriors fighting over energy reserves then females Transformers are needed for diversity. If Transformers are a metaphor for good versus evil then female Transformers are needed to give that fight a fuller perspective and it begins to breach into territories that most TF fans are uncomfortable with. If Transformers is just a stupid little show, who's only purpose entertain, then the TF might as well go whole hog and rip out cooling hoses, use magic bullets, and change into unicorns and butterflies. Every story has elements it must have to tell the full story, otherwise you're always going to be left with an unfinished one.

Good point, but remember (and no offence) they are not a cultural statement

as to where their figs are, most never got the chance to be toyfied

Not all are from the same series or in every series

as for are most team leaders, not really

I will try to post more later

First let me say, this isn't about, "How there aren't any female transformers?" it's about, "Why aren't there more?" The differences between male and female are significant, but that doesn't mean one isn't superior to the other. I'm just looking for a bit more equality in what I'm seeing and buying and I'm very tired of seeing women as "the damsel in distress" or "The Amazon." There's more to woman than that. The fem fatal is a great character, but does she always have to be bad? Do woman in stories always have to be reduced to "Goddess or the Whore" archetypes. Don't we get just as tired of seeing a hero that always wins? Don't we get sick of the villain that's only evil for evil's sake? Gods D@^^^^!t I wan't a little meat with my potatoes.

Shadowman wrote:That's because female soldiers are trained in male tradition of combat and trained in specific techniques. When it comes to how women approach things there are significant differences. Just off the top of my head, women are more detailed oriented than men, they're generally quicker thinkers, and have longer memories. Women are usually crueler than men as well as more vicious. Women are usually more protective and will suffer more hurt and pain than a male before reacting. Generally women are even more spiritual and social. If you have a society which is all one gender, then you only have a single perspective. More female transformers just means more diversity. That's my main point.

That's just a bit on the insulting side. Do you have anything to back any of that up? I mean, Mythbusters confirmed the part about women being able to take more pain, but do you have anything to back up the rest of it? [/quote]

What's insulting about it? I basically said that women rock and gave examples. As far as proof:
Female artists regularly put in more details then male artists.
Females brain size is smaller, but more oriented towards memory, where as the male is more capable to take damage.
The cruelty of women is historical and is evident in the crimes they commit. When a study looked at criminal behavior between men and women, women were seen to do more crimes of a cruel and vicious nature than males.
Women are known to be in abusive relationships longer than males.
The overprotective parent is almost always a woman.

When it comes to males:
Males are physically stronger and faster.
Males brains are more visually oriented than females.
Male brains are more capable of surviving damage.
Male crimes are mostly more straightforward in their attacks. They have a single goal, and leave.

All of this info is out there look it up. There's nothing wrong with the differences, they're just differences.

What movie Prime did wasn't vicious. Vicious would have been a slow grueling death, Megs kept just alive enough to see everything he worked for to the last to be destroyed and never be able to do anything about it and then letting him powerless and immobile.

As far as Kefka, that's not enough. A woman would have made them lose their hope, convince them the only hope would be dead, left the room with the weapons need to kill themselves, and let them kill themselves. A female Kefka would have even used the fact that they treated the one girl that was brainwashed like crap, and create discord among the group.

And an example straight from a woman: (She used Anna from V as an example) "A man would have just shot the daughter, but Anna made the [daughter] watch as she made the man [the daughter] was in love with sleep with another woman."

(First I had heard of Solus Prime. What was she in?)

Eclipsica wrote:

This is similiar to ideas I tend to play around with myself. I always find myself in the minority of being bored of a storyline that is overly focused on fighting.
As a child I started to create my own chars, because I saw the series lacking in female chars.
I did just that, I would create my own place populated by mostly female TFs.

That's one of the great things about being a kid.

Eclipsica wrote:My other complaint is when there are female TF chars, is how they are protrayed.
I hate female TFs that look like giant women who can't transform into anything.
The message is that male TFs can have variety and females must conform to limited "feminine" forms.
Or that the purpose of female TFs is to be a male TF's lover. I don't care if there's romance in TF or not. I do object when that's the only purpose of the existance of females.

Yeah, that does get annoying. It seems that the writers can't come up with anything other than the three main archetypes, Damsel in Distress, Goddess and Whore. As I said in another post. There's so much more to women.

Eclipsica wrote:I am glad I never saw some of these female TF chars as a child. Actually I wish I never saw them now either now that I think about it. I am glad at least something is improving.

Would elaborate on this? Are you talking about my characters or the ones that were posted earlier by Godzillabot?

knightedfeline wrote:As far as proof:
Female artists regularly put in more details then male artists.
Females brain size is smaller, but more oriented towards memory, where as the male is more capable to take damage.
The cruelty of women is historical and is evident in the crimes they commit. When a study looked at criminal behavior between men and women, women were seen to do more crimes of a cruel and vicious nature than males.
Women are known to be in abusive relationships longer than males.
The overprotective parent is almost always a woman.

When it comes to males:
Males are physically stronger and faster.
Males brains are more visually oriented than females.
Male brains are more capable of surviving damage.
Male crimes are mostly more straightforward in their attacks. They have a single goal, and leave.

That's not proof. That's you saying things without backing them up. That's the opposite of proof.

knightedfeline wrote:All of this info is out there look it up. There's nothing wrong with the differences, they're just differences.

No. You look it up. It's not my job to research your claims.

knightedfeline wrote:What movie Prime did wasn't vicious. Vicious would have been a slow grueling death, Megs kept just alive enough to see everything he worked for to the last to be destroyed and never be able to do anything about it and then letting him powerless and immobile.

I said brutal. Like, ripping of Starscream's arm and beating him with it, or tearing Blackout's head in half with a pair of hooks. Or uppercutting Megatron's head off. Or ripping off the Fallen's face, punching him through the chest, tearing out his spark, and crushing it in his hand.

knightedfeline wrote:As far as Kefka, that's not enough. A woman would have made them lose their hope, convince them the only hope would be dead, left the room with the weapons need to kill themselves, and let them kill themselves. A female Kefka would have even used the fact that they treated the one girl that was brainwashed like crap, and create discord among the group.

He did that. But they had found reasons to live, they found a way to cast off all doubt, they found acceptance or forgiveness for their pasts, and then he realized that no matter how much he destroyed, he still couldn't destroy their hope.

Wait, they treated Terra like crap? When? I recall them adamantly protecting her and treating her with respect.

In the end, I'm pretty much done with you until you actually want to post some proof, which you've failed to give. All you have is conjecture and baseless assumptions.

EDIT: If you meant Celes (Who was never brainwashed), then yeah, he made her out to be a traitor, creating discord among the group. It actually worked pretty well for a while.

Eclipsica wrote:This is similiar to ideas I tend to play around with myself. I always find myself in the minority of being bored of a storyline that is overly focused on fighting.
As a child I started to create my own chars, because I saw the series lacking in female chars.
I did just that, I would create my own place populated by mostly female TFs.

My other complaint is when there are female TF chars, is how they are protrayed.
I hate female TFs that look like giant women who can't transform into anything.
The message is that male TFs can have variety and females must conform to limited "feminine" forms.
Or that the purpose of female TFs is to be a male TF's lover. I don't care if there's romance in TF or not. I do object when that's the only purpose of the existance of females.

I am glad I never saw some of these female TF chars as a child. Actually I wish I never saw them now either now that I think about it. I am glad at least something is improving.

Glad I'm not the only one who made up stories with characters that fit my idea of the female roles (imagination is an awesome thing!). I agree with your complaint about the existing female transformers. I think I'd enjoy new female characters if they had variety, were used more consistently and represented more than just the token gesture female.