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Shadowman wrote:

Baneblade wrote:for once the headmaster-bat and myself are in agreement - having the enemy transform and dart out the way made the fights a little more challenging (frustrating) especially when you fight the bosses or you are in a boss fight and the minions show up. it did irk me though that the only ones that were transforming mid combat - the car drones just charged in and then that was it...

But that's it. That's all transforming enemies ever did, that's all they could do with what they were given. It's not a limitation on the AI, it's a limitation on the mechanic, and being a slightly harder-to-hit target is not using Transforming to its full potential.

But you know what would be a really, really good idea? A chase scene. A real, proper, GTA-style chase scene. Imagine the Iacon Speedway or the final stretch of Halo 3 from the Kaon mission, but instead of just getting from point A to point B, you have to do that while also trying to take down a fleeing opponent.

or dodge a hot pursuit?

Shadowman wrote:But that's it. That's all transforming enemies ever did, that's all they could do with what they were given. It's not a limitation on the AI, it's a limitation on the mechanic, and being a slightly harder-to-hit target is not using Transforming to its full potential.

But you know what would be a really, really good idea? A chase scene. A real, proper, GTA-style chase scene. Imagine the Iacon Speedway or the final stretch of Halo 3 from the Kaon mission, but instead of just getting from point A to point B, you have to do that while also trying to take down a fleeing opponent.

The AI decides when they should transform, and what to do after they have transformed. By improving the AI, you are improving the transforming mechanic since you are giving each npc a new set of actions to execute in each form. If your gonna fault the transformation use of enemies for the fact that it didn't make it that much harder to kill them, well thats a problem with the whole of WFC being too easy for you. I have no problem on toughest difficulty now (unless i'm in a team, and I think I have a special user made update version that increased game difficulty when playing co-op), but I would not have them sacrifice transforming robots for just a bunch of running robots... even if that somehow makes the game harder, who cares, its now that much more boring, and I might as well play some other 3rd or fps.

But your idea for the end chase is right in my books. Although GTA is what your talking about, whereas in halo, you didn't need to shoot any enemies (although it often helped if your driver/driving sucked).

Baneblade wrote:or dodge a hot pursuit?

That would be intense; Movie Hatchet (SUV) racing behind you to transform into a freaky oversized beast, and you gota shoot down supports so that you just make it, only to slow him down a little each time...

metatron_da_don wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

metatron_da_don wrote:In the first video who are the guys in the concept art. There's a purple one and a large hulking white+red one.

Which first video? There's a lot of those.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/ ... obots.aspx

Guys Ive heard are wheeljack perceptor and Breakdown. I see Wheeljack is far right, but the giant hulk... can it be perceptor??

The big hulking red and white one is one of the CPU enemies. The white car next to it is Wheeljack. Can't tell who the other one is (though, he looks more blue to me) due to a glare.

Sabrblade wrote:

metatron_da_don wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

metatron_da_don wrote:In the first video who are the guys in the concept art. There's a purple one and a large hulking white+red one.

Which first video? There's a lot of those.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/ ... obots.aspx

Guys Ive heard are wheeljack perceptor and Breakdown. I see Wheeljack is far right, but the giant hulk... can it be perceptor??

The big hulking red and white one is one of the CPU enemies. The white car next to it is Wheeljack. Can't tell who the other one is (though, he looks more blue to me) due to a glare.

I spy an Autobot insignia... edit: also that cannon looks less than generic... maybe not perceptor but he looks too bad@ss to be a generic foe,



Wheeljack


blue purple guy (I feel his design has been revealed earlier) & more

^He has tank treads on his legs. I was going to guess some crazy power-armour mode for Jetfire... buuut I guess I'd be wrong.

metatron_da_don wrote:I spy an Autobot insignia... edit: also that cannon looks less than generic... maybe not perceptor but he looks too bad@ss to be a generic foe,

No, he's an enemy AI. I'm guessing an Autobot brute for one of the Decepticon levels. He's shown with a bunch of other enemy AIs here - http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/10/20/clever-devils-the-enemies-and-ai-of-fall-of-cybertron.aspx

thanks for the clearup, sux I like the "Autobot Titan" character design <sigh> hope theyre saving best for last. I was also hoping they made Perceptor a gentle giant cant wait 4 more char reveals

MINDVVIPE wrote:The AI decides when they should transform, and what to do after they have transformed. By improving the AI, you are improving the transforming mechanic since you are giving each npc a new set of actions to execute in each form. If your gonna fault the transformation use of enemies for the fact that it didn't make it that much harder to kill them, well thats a problem with the whole of WFC being too easy for you. I have no problem on toughest difficulty now (unless i'm in a team, and I think I have a special user made update version that increased game difficulty when playing co-op), but I would not have them sacrifice transforming robots for just a bunch of running robots... even if that somehow makes the game harder, who cares, its now that much more boring, and I might as well play some other 3rd or fps.

Okay, well, what's your idea? What would you have the AI do to make full use of transforming? If you're going to start criticizing my ideas (Make transforming something actually useful, or don't bother doing it) maybe you should put out some of your own.

MINDVVIPE wrote:But your idea for the end chase is right in my books. Although GTA is what your talking about, whereas in halo, you didn't need to shoot any enemies (although it often helped if your driver/driving sucked).

Actually I was referring to how the extended driving scene near the end of the Kaon mission was extremely similar to the extended driving sequences at the end of Halo 1 and 3.

Shadowman wrote:Okay, well, what's your idea? What would you have the AI do to make full use of transforming? If you're going to start criticizing my ideas (Make transforming something actually useful, or don't bother doing it) maybe you should put out some of your own.

Cars:

race to cover, transform to robot, attack.
>Take damage>
Transform and drive away to find better cover/fire at the player from afar while vehicle strafing until heavy damage is taken > transform and take cover behind obstacle, completely out of view unless flanked.

Trucks:

Similar to cars, but added Ram attack in vehicle mode.

Jets:

Fly in while bombing/rocketing player.
Hover from afar and fire while taking evasive actions when fired upon.
Hover over other enemy npcs to provide aid or shield cover.
>Transform>
Take high perches and attack from afar.
Aid enemy nps with medic gun.
Transform when being attacked to fly out of immediate visibility.

Insects:

Similar to jets, but can cling onto player in insect form and require being melee'ed off while damage is gradually being taken (gun arm still free to fire other enemies with decreased accuracy OR melee)
>Transform>
Uses arms to melee/throw multiple objects (explosives?) at the player with the use of additional limbs.
Cling onto flying insect mode bots to fire until shot at, then they can drop and crawl/run/attack the player.

I could probably come up with more. Theres all the little details I left out like, cars are faster than trucks, insects run faster than their bot mode... all the things that could be used with actual better AI to decide when to do what.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Okay, well, what's your idea? What would you have the AI do to make full use of transforming? If you're going to start criticizing my ideas (Make transforming something actually useful, or don't bother doing it) maybe you should put out some of your own.

Cars:

race to cover, transform to robot, attack.
>Take damage>
Transform and drive away to find better cover/fire at the player from afar while vehicle strafing until heavy damage is taken > transform and take cover behind obstacle, completely out of view unless flanked.

Why do they need to transform to do that? You can run for cover on foot.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Jets:

Fly in while bombing/rocketing player.
Hover from afar and fire while taking evasive actions when fired upon.
Hover over other enemy npcs to provide aid or shield cover.
>Transform>
Take high perches and attack from afar.
Aid enemy nps with medic gun.
Transform when being attacked to fly out of immediate visibility.

Some of those are only useful is large rooms. Not all enemies hide out in rooms specially designed for them.

Shadowman wrote:
Why do they need to transform to do that? You can run for cover on foot.

Some of those are only useful is large rooms. Not all enemies hide out in rooms specially designed for them.

Its faster, and as you said, makes them a smaller target with no visible head for a sniper headshot (if you tried and missed, you don't get a second chance).

Theres always been enough areas of a mission/level with open spaces that you won't miss the jets in smaller spaces. If they really wanted to, they could have the jets fly in behind you in a tunnel, and then transform and fly further down the tunnel to take up points further ahead of the tunnel you are traversing (which means if you don't finish them off before they fly off, they accumulate ahead of you as more jets fly in [which means if you're quick, you can take out a few jets as they fly in since they are weaker in this mode and more susceptible to one well timed and locked on rocket]).

It's really more about the timing at which they transform, just like WFC multiplayer with gamers who want to make full use of the transformers potential.

metatron_da_don wrote:thanks for the clearup, sux I like the "Autobot Titan" character design <sigh> hope theyre saving best for last. I was also hoping they made Perceptor a gentle giant cant wait 4 more char reveals

Here's Perceptor.

Want to explore the timeline the Cybertronian civil war? gameinformer has posted the timeline mirrored below in their latest Transformers: Fall of Cybertron article, "The Transformers Timeline". Click here to view the full article and see the image in greater detail.

In the interest of offering an official history, we asked High Moon Studios, in cooperation with Hasbro, to prepare a timeline that explains the emerging fiction. If you've been paying attention to the Transformers for many years, you'll notice elements of the story drawn from the original generation of stories, not the least of which is the tracing of a history that takes the Transformers from Cybertron to Earth. Careful readers will also notice some new hints about the direction of the Fall of Cybertron storyline.

I hope they find a way of adding a version of beast wars to this timeline.

I agree, the AI should be better, but I also think they can add a little bit more for the AI to do (like dashing, ramming, etc.) If the AI were better at dodging, the game would be marginally more difficult. And would make it more like a show/movie where everybody's shooting but no one gets hurt! XD Anyway, assuming they dodge, they can, as someone mentioned, find cover farther back, or be more agressive and run up for a melee as well (kamikaze of sorts, either to help their remaining friends, go out bright, or because they're cornered and no where else to go, etc.). And when only one is left (if the level allows), he might decide to attempt fleeing, and you could then chase after him if you wanted to. <insert epic car chase here> Not killing him might mean more enemies when you next see him. (like the huge hexagonally plated floor map before you approach Soundwave in Kaon in WfC....some enemies there run away or lead you on for a bit - that could be expanded upon for the premise idea here)

But all of this is sort of intricately woven for the AI system as a whole. (IE not everything can be implemented one part at a time, but relies on other factors in the system to function effectively, basically a good chunk is all-or-nothing, effort wise. If you can't debug it before time runs out you lose a good chunk of improvement) So hopefully they have enough time and manpower budgeted to improve it. (and knowledge and engine ability. I have no idea what Kismet or whatever else is actually capable of AI-wise, let alone in the new Unreal3.)

So yes. AI better = I hope it's on the list, regardless of whether generic enemies transform. I just don't see them taking that completely out...Like if you meet a boss, like Starscream, assuming he transforms, then his AI will have to deal with that in addition to everything else, while none of the other AI have to. It doesn't provide a good subject for bug testing anyway, if only one or two enemies use the system...not only would it make it harder to spot bugs, but there becomes a battle with how important they really are. On the one hand, it's only one enemy. On the other, it's a boss, so it's supposed to challenge you, not sit there transforming confusedly and whatnot. Of course, this isn't much of a problem if they script the bosses in stages like WfC.
Example:
Boss fires at you in robot mode until 60% energy remains. Cutscene. Boss alternates shooting and bringing in additional forces , until 20% energy remains. Cutscene. Boss brings in additional forces, and runs. After defeating additional forces, you chase after them, chase scene ensues and you have to take them out in alt. mode due to the speed/chase.

I won't get into my opinion of the flawed boss system in general in games (with uber health) to make up for lack of good AI.
Oh, what a wonderful place the world would be with great AI.

remnant114 wrote:I hope they find a way of adding a version of beast wars to this timeline.

if they do then it will be well after the battles on earth and the final wars on Cybertron. Beast Wars starts well in the future and goes back to earth pre G1/volcano eruption, and then it jumps back forwards to post final war where everything went pete-tong (all wrong if you don't get the reference)

so the incusion will have to be very well after the original settings..

remember trukk not monkey lol (sorry... i had to)

sounds like they're starting to draw ideas from Beast Wars, nice.

Baneblade wrote:

remnant114 wrote:I hope they find a way of adding a version of beast wars to this timeline.

if they do then it will be well after the battles on earth and the final wars on Cybertron. Beast Wars starts well in the future and goes back to earth pre G1/volcano eruption, and then it jumps back forwards to post final war where everything went pete-tong (all wrong if you don't get the reference)

so the incusion will have to be very well after the original settings..

remember trukk not monkey lol (sorry... i had to)

I second this. If they wanted to hit BW, then they'd have to fast forward ALOT! Pretty much drop this story and go to where Megatron is about to steal the golden disk. They'd probably use vehicle modes though because they didn't get their animal forms 'till they hit earth. But HMS would probably drop the timelines comic and give them animal forms before they hit earth with what they're doing with the Dinobots. Then I'd kinda be dissapointed. Other than that, they'd have to focus on the future, which I kinda doubt they will.

wigglez323 wrote:

Baneblade wrote:

remnant114 wrote:I hope they find a way of adding a version of beast wars to this timeline.

if they do then it will be well after the battles on earth and the final wars on Cybertron. Beast Wars starts well in the future and goes back to earth pre G1/volcano eruption, and then it jumps back forwards to post final war where everything went pete-tong (all wrong if you don't get the reference)

so the incusion will have to be very well after the original settings..

remember trukk not monkey lol (sorry... i had to)

I second this. If they wanted to hit BW, then they'd have to fast forward ALOT! Pretty much drop this story and go to where Megatron is about to steal the golden disk. They'd probably use vehicle modes though because they didn't get their animal forms 'till they hit earth. But HMS would probably drop the timelines comic and give them animal forms before they hit earth with what they're doing with the Dinobots. Then I'd kinda be dissapointed. Other than that, they'd have to focus on the future, which I kinda doubt they will.

yup - they can't really focus on a future version and ignore everything gone before that would just well... it would rub the wrong way

That whole "Journey" part of the timeline is written in an ambiguous, non-spoiler way, yet those of us who have already read Exiles know very well that they do NOT go to Earth (yet).

Also, the "Fall of Cybertron" part seems to indicate that this is a rewrite of just chapters 38-39 of Exodus.

Baneblade wrote:

wigglez323 wrote:

Baneblade wrote:

remnant114 wrote:I hope they find a way of adding a version of beast wars to this timeline.

if they do then it will be well after the battles on earth and the final wars on Cybertron. Beast Wars starts well in the future and goes back to earth pre G1/volcano eruption, and then it jumps back forwards to post final war where everything went pete-tong (all wrong if you don't get the reference)

so the incusion will have to be very well after the original settings..

remember trukk not monkey lol (sorry... i had to)

I second this. If they wanted to hit BW, then they'd have to fast forward ALOT! Pretty much drop this story and go to where Megatron is about to steal the golden disk. They'd probably use vehicle modes though because they didn't get their animal forms 'till they hit earth. But HMS would probably drop the timelines comic and give them animal forms before they hit earth with what they're doing with the Dinobots. Then I'd kinda be dissapointed. Other than that, they'd have to focus on the future, which I kinda doubt they will.

yup - they can't really focus on a future version and ignore everything gone before that would just well... it would rub the wrong way

So, in other words, it's best to just leave Beast Wars as the great story that it is and not try to work a different version of it into this mess.

Well since you put it that way, yes.

G1 has been chopped, cut, sliced, pasted, blended....i think what's been arrived with IDW and the story that was Fall...i think that g1 has hit that grittier darker level that transformers was needing....beastwars is a good story arc too...i think they would have to do the same chop cut rebuild that would confuse even more...

gameinformer has posted the latest article in their month long Transformers: Fall of Cybertron coverage. This article titled "True To Form: Safeguarding The Transformers License" focuses on intellectual property development and licensing. High Moon game director Matt Tieger and Hasbro vice president of intellectual property development Aaron Archer cover the following:

• On the creation of the first game
• On game narrative
• On managing Transformers lore
• On scripting a game
• On creative limits
• On designing characters
• On the War for Cybertron toys
• On Dinobots

Click here to read the full article of gameinfromer.

It may seem strange for a toy brand to have its own encyclopedia of chronicled narrative. Properties like Barbie, Hot Wheels, or LEGO aren’t known for their large wealth of fiction, for example. One of the first toy properties to pioneer the concept of branching off into additional media was Hasbro’s Transformers. Since the franchise was first introduced into the world in 1984, the brand has constantly been reinvented for different markets and audiences.

High Moon’s Transformers: War for Cybertron was significant in that it translated the core Transformer’s concepts into an entertaining game. Few licenses are able to safely make this transition. We sat down to talk with High Moon game director Matt Tieger and Hasbro vice president of intellectual property development Aaron Archer about how they avoided traditional licensing pitfalls and what they learned that will make the upcoming Transformer: Fall of Cybertron even better.

Another great update. Keep'em coming, Game Informer.

this looks awesome... now where's my energon goodie?

You think Gameinformer will announce multiplayer in their month long reveal? The only thing I got for it was in the magazine and that wasn't enough.