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World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:48 am
by Shadowman
Hey, it's a link.

The MI6 Marketing Conference, that takes place in San Francisco and concentrates on the business side of games development, featured a lengthy panel discussion about the MMO business modes
and the potential for growth that free-to-play games could have in the near future.

The most important speakers were Daniel James of Three Rings, creator of Puzzle Pirates, Andrew Sheppard of Outspark, the company that makes Fiesta, Min Kim of Nexon, developers of MapleStory and Craig Sherman, representing the virtual world Gaia.

Their main idea is that the business model of the MMO needs to change in the near future. Gaia's Craig Sherman stated that there are some 800 million teenagers that would like to take part in an on-line game, in a MMO, and that this number makes the apparent success of World of Warcraft, which is around the 10 million subscriber mark, seem like a low number. His original quote was: "There are 800 million teens in the world. That's not a success." A success, he thinks, would be to target an attract at least 10% of that 800 million population.

Min Kim declared: "There's a whole audience of tweens and teens out there who want to engage, but don't have access to plastic," and only the free-to-play business model can attract those gamers to on-line worlds and on-line games.

There seems to be a virtual (pun intended) agreement between the panelists that the MMO of the future needs to be free and incorporate as much social networking possibilities as it incorporates gameplay. Also it needs to be less time-intensive than the current MMO games, letting the player decide how much time he wants to put in and when he wants to play, rather than forcing a clear gaming schedule on him.

The MMO of the future also needs to be casual in that it allows easy access to the core gameplay mechanics and has a really low learning curve, unlike most of today's persistent on-line worlds.


I felt that the last two paragraphs were the most cringe-worthy.

First, in the case that Social networking should be as much of a focus as gameplay...whoever proposed that needs to be dragged out into the street and shot. The majority of MMOs are NOT story-heavy, and if they are, it's rarely ever found in the game itself. As such, they put a lot more focus on the gameplay. I don't want to see something that has as much social networking as it does gameplay, because I don't want a stupid teenage girl chatting me up telling me I'm "cute" while I'm trying to keep a mob-boss from violating my goddamn rectum!

As for a free MMO being a necessity...no. It hasn't worked to it's fullest possible extent, and I don't think it ever will. Guild Wars is crap. Exteel is good, but it gets revenue through having billboards literally everywhere.

And finally, I can't really see a low learning curve ever working. It will either drive away more experienced players who want something more in-depth, or they will have their characters maxed out quickly, over-shadowing the players who the curve was designed for.

It looks very much like they're trying to dumb-down gaming, simply to appeal to the "MySpace generation." Oddly, it's the kind of kids 've never been able to happily coexist with.

Well...that's my thoughts. Anyone else care to give it a whack?

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:03 am
by neutralstate
ah well, thats the marketing department talking. success in terms of subscription, rather than game depth. success in terms of capturing the market, rather than how fun the game actually is. hard to blame them i guess cos thats their job.

i'm gonna emo if all games turn into some maple story variant.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:44 am
by Shadowman
neutralstate wrote:ah well, thats the marketing department talking. success in terms of subscription, rather than game depth. success in terms of capturing the market, rather than how fun the game actually is. hard to blame them i guess cos thats their job.


One of the comments in the link said that with 10,000,000 subscribers, each paying $15 a month, then Blizzard is making $150,000,000 each month. That is, in no way, a failure.

neutralstate wrote:i'm gonna emo if all games turn into some maple story variant.


I particularly hate Maple Story in that, despite being a game, none of the ads featured game-play footage. Instead, it used the phrase "Hang out with friends" which should never, ever, ever, EVER be used to describe a game, ever. And to do so is like spitting in the face of every good game maker in history.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:34 am
by UltraPrimal
It's apparent whoever wrote this article is a moron. "There are 800 million teens in the world and if 10% of them aren't playing WoW then it's not a success". :roll: I don't think 10% of the worlds teens even have a computer. More of them probably have AIDS. The people who play MMO's are the exact opposite of those on MySpace. Sterotypically speaking.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:51 pm
by Shadowman
Just went over the article. Apparently, this was all decide by the makers of such "great" games as Puzzle Pirates, Maple Story, and Gaia Online.

NCsoft and Blizzard are surely shaking with fear now, as they huddle up in their solid-gold mansions, and blankets made out of money.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:56 pm
by neutralstate
i've played maple story before, and i was astounded by just how little one can actually customize the character in terms of skills and the like - the customization possibilities are all for appearances.

the article makes a point that there are many kids who wanna play who have no access to plastic. well, even if they managed to attract these kids to pay, how are they going to earn alot of money? like they said themselves, these guys have no access to cash.

40 million subscribers, most of whom pay nothing, or 10 million, everyone one of whom pays 15 bucks per month? its up to them i guess.

further more, repetitive games with little depth may seem fine at first, but as these kids grow up they will realize how repetitive these simple games really, and will simply move on to something else. anyone who has played maple story will know what i mean.

as far as i can tell its a case of the marketing department screwing up,and not understanding what makes a game a game, and what gamers enjoy.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:56 pm
by Avatar Prime
I don't agree with what the people on the panel said in the article. Maybe they're jealous of the success and amount of money those games make.
I don't think MMOs will ever become what those on the panel from the article say MMOs should become, mainly because there are so many players willing to pay $15 a month to play the games which. Plus, most of the time you don't have to pay real money for items to customize your character's looks and abilities unless your making a deal with another player.
Couldn't those kids use alternatives to credit cards anyways? I know some, if not all, of the Pay to Play MMOs have cards you can buy in store that will allow you to play.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:19 am
by Shadowman
Avatar Prime wrote:Couldn't those kids use alternatives to credit cards anyways? I know some, if not all, of the Pay to Play MMOs have cards you can buy in store that will allow you to play.


Or, better idea, ask their parents to pay for it, while earning the money to pay it off?

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:37 am
by ashe5k
I play one of these 'free-to-play' 'donation' games right now. It's been out for a year and a half and only has 1.5 million players, over half of which don't actually play or are duplicate accounts. There is a social aspect htrough guilds there, but the actual fighting is seperate and it's brwoser-based. It's a fun little addiction for about an hour of my day. I DO NOT see it as the future of MMOs. If it is I don't want any part of it. There's no story-line, the game is actually poorly-designed as far as levelling and so on after a certain point and the developers can't keep up with the top players as far as giving out new content. Yeah I think I'll pass if that's the future. The only thing keeping me playing is that I have a great guild there.

Guild Wars is not crap. They've got over 5 million accoutns now. It's got a decent story-line and a really decent PvP if you're into that sort of thing. Does it have the depth of Wow? No. But it's definitely not crap and it showed that you don't have to have a monthly fee to deliver a decent game that's online and has millions of players.

Personally I think the people that were at this panel have never really made an MMO. I hate to tell them but Gaia is a social network. Teens and Tweens gravitate toward those to socialize on forums NOT to play games. If they could do a successful blend I would be highly surprised.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:18 am
by Shadowman
ashe5k wrote:Personally I think the people that were at this panel have never really made an MMO. I hate to tell them but Gaia is a social network. Teens and Tweens gravitate toward those to socialize on forums NOT to play games. If they could do a successful blend I would be highly surprised.


If you use MMO as an acronym for "Mildly Multiplayer Online," then, yeah, they kind of do.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:33 pm
by Sherade
I don't play Warchraft, or any MMO, and in that light find this amusing. It's only a game. And you have to think, if people actually pay to play, apparently something went right.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:38 pm
by Shadowman
Sherade wrote:It's only a game.


That is the most dangerous thing to say around gamers. It's like going to a church and saying God isn't real, or going to a NASCAR event and saying that it's just a bunch of left turns.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:04 am
by City Commander
Shadowman wrote:
Sherade wrote:It's only a game.


That is the most dangerous thing to say around gamers. It's like going to a church and saying God isn't real, or going to a NASCAR event and saying that it's just a bunch of left turns.



RARGHHH!!! :P

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:33 pm
by Venomous Prime
Shadowman wrote:
Sherade wrote:It's only a game.


That is the most dangerous thing to say around gamers. It's like going to a church and saying God isn't real, or going to a NASCAR event and saying that it's just a bunch of left turns.


I hope you are joking.

Comparing two forms of entertainment being just entertainment to insulting a religion?

That is the most rediculous thing I have read all week

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:39 pm
by Jeep?
Shadowman wrote:
Sherade wrote:It's only a game.


That is the most dangerous thing to say around gamers. It's like going to a church and saying God isn't real, or going to a NASCAR event and saying that it's just a bunch of left turns.



What the **** is that? For one, a game is quantifiably, unarguably only a game. Otherwise it wouldn't be called a game, would it? Semantics aside, it is just a game. It's something played for fun by a group of people who enjoy it - what the bollocks has that got in common with the nature of divinity? You're just being inflammatory, and given the beliefs of several members of staff, stupid.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:48 pm
by neutralstate
Jeep! wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Sherade wrote:It's only a game.


That is the most dangerous thing to say around gamers. It's like going to a church and saying God isn't real, or going to a NASCAR event and saying that it's just a bunch of left turns.



What the **** is that? For one, a game is quantifiably, unarguably only a game. Otherwise it wouldn't be called a game, would it? Semantics aside, it is just a game. It's something played for fun by a group of people who enjoy it - what the bollocks has that got in common with the nature of divinity? You're just being inflammatory, and given the beliefs of several members of staff, stupid.


whoa whoa whoa!!!! he had NONE of that in mind. all he's saying is that gaming to some people is really important, and that saying "its just a game" implies some trivialization to the activity, so it gets them angry.

he wasn't flaming anyone or any religion!!! he did not try and slam any religion, he's just simply saying some people take their games very seriously, up to the point that its (maybe) like a religion to them. relax!!!!!!

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:57 pm
by Jeep?
Well, actually, he dragged other points into the conversation is a piss-poor attempt to counter something. It was needless, and pathetically futile.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:06 pm
by High Command
Original Sin wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Sherade wrote:It's only a game.


That is the most dangerous thing to say around gamers. It's like going to a church and saying God isn't real, or going to a NASCAR event and saying that it's just a bunch of left turns.


I hope you are joking.

Comparing two forms of entertainment being just entertainment to insulting a religion?

That is the most rediculous thing I have read all week


Personally I find insulting a religion to be a first rate form of entertainment.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:10 pm
by neutralstate
Jeep! wrote:Well, actually, he dragged other points into the conversation is a piss-poor attempt to counter something. It was needless, and pathetically futile.


i believe he was only giving a hypothetical situation. the fact that he might quote an example of someone going into church saying that God doesn't exist as as act that is offensive suggests that he is of a similar religious persuasion to yourself, don't you think?

I will not argue with you whether or not his argument was sound, but I will say that the aggressive manner in which u slammed him for what i think was an example that was not meant to be offensive was not necessary. aren't we all supposed to be cordial in the forums?

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:11 pm
by Venomous Prime
You obviously have no idea who you are defending :lol:

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:13 pm
by neutralstate
Original Sin wrote:You obviously have no idea who you are defending :lol:


hehe.. educate me, i'm new to these forums :D

i only saw the contents of this thread and wrote my posts based on the evidence in this thread :p

*edit* some typos...

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:34 pm
by Jeep?
neutralstate wrote:
Jeep! wrote:Well, actually, he dragged other points into the conversation is a piss-poor attempt to counter something. It was needless, and pathetically futile.


i believe he was only giving a hypothetical situation. the fact that he might quote an example of someone going into church saying that God doesn't exist as as act that is offensive suggests that he is of a similar religious persuasion to yourself, don't you think?

I will not argue with you whether or not his argument was sound, but I will say that the aggressive manner in which u slammed him for what i think was an example that was not meant to be offensive was not necessary. aren't we all supposed to be cordial in the forums?


Yes, I see your point - the sentiments behind "this piece of software you're playing is just a game" and "that ethereal being you've dedicated your life to is not real" are perfectly compatible, nor is it at all offense to think they are. Jolly good show, wonderfully sporting, now for tea and scones.
Or, you know, not. If you can't defend a point on its own merits then you can't defend it.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:58 pm
by neutralstate
oh wow.. okay. lets not get so up tight over such things.

i'll state my point clearly now :

1) i believe he wasn't trying to be antagonistic, and that you shouldn't have been so rude in your posts.

and i'll add a new one:

2) even if he was being antagonistic (which Original Sin seems to suggest) you STILL should not have phrased some of the things the way you did. just because someone else has done something wrong does not give u a license to be all nasty. simply nudge him back in line cordially.

thats all i'm saying, cool down.

cheers!

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:17 pm
by Jeep?
Much as you don't nudge a rhino in the opposite direction, you don't gingerly ask Shadowman to retract absurd statements. And I'm not being rude, were I being rude someone would be crying now. I'm quashing a stupid argument and engaging in another.

Re: World of Warcraft is not a "Real" success

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:29 pm
by neutralstate
Jeep! wrote: And I'm not being rude, were I being rude someone would be crying now.


Oh? and who might that someone be?

I guess everyone has his or her own interpretation of "rude" and "aggressive", but I do find calling people "stupid" and calling their comments "piss poor" some what.. un-cordial. all i wanted to do was to prevent this forum from literally bursting into flames (ha! i liked the pun there, if i should say so myself :D ) just so that thats clear.

that's all i am saying. it's back to fourier and laplace transforms for me. good day to all!