Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Posted: **Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:04 am**

Could someone please identify the larger bright yellow "bee" in the comparison pics that is neither the MP or the G1? Is it third-party? Thanks.

Posted: **Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:10 am**

procyon wrote:Could someone please identify the larger bright yellow "bee" in the comparison pics that is neither the MP or the G1? Is it third-party? Thanks.

That's Bug Bite from Tonka's Gobots. He's a so-called Super Gobot, larger than normal Gobots, but his transformation is a standard one used by half of the Supers. Thanks to Hasbro buying out Tonka in the 1990's, the Bug Bite character could be used for BotCon 2007 as a white repaint of Classics Bumblebee, based on one of e-Hobby's G1 Gobots:

By the by, pretty interesting that Gobots Bug Bite is practically the same size as MP Bumble in vehicle mode. :lol:

Posted: **Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:08 am**

Seibertron wrote:It seems like imagery from the Animated film is rarely used in the past few years, specifically since Paramount obtained rights to it. In the US, that's because Paramount owns the rights to it currently so they could block it from being released because they apparently felt that it would confuse the marketplace with the live action movies (doesn't make any sense to me). I think the Australian Madman Blu-Ray release was the last time that it was available so I wonder if it has now been somehow restricted worldwide. My speculation could be running wild here ... just something I've noticed.

Would Paramount's hold in the movie in the U.S. extend to Japanese markets as well, though? To my understanding (though it could be wrong), ownership rights of American material mightn't affect those in foreign markets that already have their own versions of the material. Paramount might be keeping the American version of the movie out of the American market, but what's to stop Toei from putting out a new domestic (for Japan) DVD release of the Japanese audio version of the movie that neither Hasbro nor Paramount ought to have any ownership of? If Toei wanted to, that is. Would Paramount step in and object to a foreign release that would otherwise ignore the English-language markets that Paramount's been trying to keep that movie out of? :-?

Seibertron wrote:I changed the gallery to Spike but I still stand by my opinion of it. The sideburns and facial proportions are that of Daniel and not Spike. Daniel has the smaller triangle sideburns like this toy has whereas Spike has the longer rectangle sideburns that go the length of his ears. Also, the face is round like the boy Daniel instead of a more "chisled"/longer adult face like adult Spike has. They can call it Spike all they want, but that's Daniel's face/head (and the instructions seem to back this up as well with the picture of Daniel in it and a picture of Spike nowhere to be seen).

Maybe someone goofed up and based it on the wrong visual reference. They might have used that The Headmasters screengrab of Daniel in the transformed Exo-Suit that we see in the instructions and mistook it for Spike. Who knows. *shrug*

Posted: **Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:08 pm**

Autobot032 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:

エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。 = "Ekuseru Suuto no Supaiku mo henkei." = "Spike's Excel Suit also transforms."

Ah. Good catch. That, plus the fact that shots of Magnus's packaging state that he's coming with a figure of Daniel. This Exo-Suit is Spike, Daniel comes with Magnus and younger Spike came with MP-10, so all we're missing is a Carly and a Chip Chase.

EDIT: Here we go.

The Daniel here looks just like the Spike above, so confusing. I wish the figures were larger!

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:08 am**

The should be a 3rd party that should be able to make a line of MP human figures that scale up with the robot modes. Whom to send proposals to.

539

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:02 pm**

Agent-539 wrote:The should be a 3rd party that should be able to make a line of MP human figures that scale up with the robot modes. Whom to send proposals to.

539

One company already made Spike and Sparkplug to go with MP-10. Dr. Wu, I think?

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:33 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
Seibertron wrote:I changed the gallery to Spike but I still stand by my opinion of it. The sideburns and facial proportions are that of Daniel and not Spike. Daniel has the smaller triangle sideburns like this toy has whereas Spike has the longer rectangle sideburns that go the length of his ears. Also, the face is round like the boy Daniel instead of a more "chisled"/longer adult face like adult Spike has. They can call it Spike all they want, but that's Daniel's face/head (and the instructions seem to back this up as well with the picture of Daniel in it and a picture of Spike nowhere to be seen).
Maybe someone goofed up and based it on the wrong visual reference. They might have used that The Headmasters screengrab of Daniel in the transformed Exo-Suit that we see in the instructions and mistook it for Spike. Who knows. *shrug*

I'm switching it back to Daniel. The toy's head is clearly Daniel. The line-art in the Masterpiece book that came out a few months back is Daniel as well. The prototype in that book appears to have the head of Spike oddly. I'll post scans in a few minutes so you guys can see the difference in Spike and Daniel's heads in the exo-suit.

The guys over at the Wiki also seem to agree: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Bumblebee_(G1)/toys#Masterpiece

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:41 pm**

Seibertron wrote:

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:47 pm**

Oy vey. Then someone at Takara really did goof up since the packaging does acknowledge it as Spike, as スパイク is how one writes "Spike" in Katakana (unless the packaging just meant that the Exosuit belonged to Spike even though it's Daniel inside it). "Daniel" would be ダニエル. But... yeah, it is very much Daniel.

Only thing I can guess is that Hasui might have planned for it to be Spike, but somewhere along the way somebody else didn't get that exact memo, got working on the Exosuit, remembered that Daniel was seen in it more than his father was, thought that's who it was supposed to be, and made Daniel instead.

Though, this does raise the question of whether they'll try again with giving us an actual Spike from this toy in some later release. Maybe either with a variant release of Bumble or with a completely different figure.

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:49 pm**

Seibertron wrote:I'm switching it back to Daniel. The toy's head is clearly Daniel. The line-art in the Masterpiece book that came out a few months back is Daniel as well. The prototype in that book appears to have the head of Spike oddly. I'll post scans in a few minutes so you guys can see the difference in Spike and Daniel's heads in the exo-suit.

Is changing it Daniel really a good idea though? The fact that the instructions clearly state it's Spike would make things final no matter what people may think he actually is. You may think it's Daniel, TakaraTomy claim it's Spike. In the interest of being factually accurate with the site, which side takes priority? The evidence does point to him being designed originally as Daniel, I'll give you that. but the name given, eh... I agree with Sabrblade here that TakaraTomy made a Galaxy Goofup.

Keeping the name Spike, but at the same time acknowledging the sculpt to be based on Daniel would be the way to go IMHO. Keep both sides of the argument ("It's Spike, the instructions say so" vs. "It's Daniel, look at the sculpt!") appeased.

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:52 pm**

It's tough to tell from this scan but at a lower resolution it looks much more like Spike on the printed page. Notice the elongated face versus the rounder face for Daniel plus the part in his hair on his left side that is absent on the Daniel head mold.

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:53 pm**

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Is changing it Daniel really a good idea though? The fact that the instructions clearly state it's Spike

Do they, though? Looks more like they just call the toy "Exo-Suit"/"Excel Suit":

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:57 pm**

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Keeping the name Spike, but at the same time acknowledging the sculpt to be based on Daniel would be the way to go IMHO. Keep both sides of the argument ("It's Spike, the instructions say so" vs. "It's Daniel, look at the sculpt!") appeased.

Not sure where it says in the instructions that it's Spike, but regardless the picture shown is that of Daniel. I can't read Japanese but I can certainly look at an image in the instructions to see that it's clearly Daniel, I can look at the officially licensed Takara Masterpiece book to see that the line-art is Daniel, and I can look at the toy itself to clearly see that it's Daniel. Maybe it's just the artist in me that notices shapes and subtle differences even in something so vague, I dunno, but it's definitely Daniel and not the adult version of Spike.

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:58 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Is changing it Daniel really a good idea though? The fact that the instructions clearly state it's Spike
Do they, though? Looks more like they just call the toy "Exo-Suit"/"Excel Suit":

My bad, it's the box-back:

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:00 pm**

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:My bad, it's the box-back:

I would consider that a typo since that's the only reference of it as "Spike" whereas we have line-art from Takara showing it as Daniel, the instructions show Daniel, and the shape of the head is Daniel.

Also, are we sure that it doesn't say something like "Daniel is wearing Spike's Exo-Suit" or "Spike built the Exo-Suit". Is Daniel's name in the text anywhere on the box?

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:07 pm**

エクセルス‐ツ0スパイクも蛾。

Excel scan - Tsu 0 spike also moth.

Whatever that means.

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:10 pm**

Seibertron wrote:Also, are we sure that it doesn't say something like "Daniel is wearing Spike's Exo-Suit" or "Spike built the Exo-Suit". Is Daniel's name in the text anywhere on the box?

I wondered something like that, myself. The text エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。 basically translates to saying "Spike's Excel Suit also transforms." But the parsing of it as "Spike's Excel Suit" (as in "Ekuseru Suuto no Supaiku") could be a reference to how the suit worn by Daniel in the movie belonged to his father. So even though it's "Spike's Exo-Suit", it's still Daniel who's wearing it.

As for whether or not Daniel's name is mentioned anywhere on the box, the entirety of the text on the whole box is a bit small for me to tell (even in the biggest images), but if Daniel's name is mentioned anywhere, it would look like this:

ダニエル

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:11 pm**

I can't tell how accurate this text is to what's on the box ... most of it looks accurate

フォルクスワ‐ゲン・タイブT (江称ビ‐トル)lよドイツのワ‐ゲン社に
よって0江きれた小型自M車である。この丸<愛fjのある車がビ‐卜ル同
様、虫にまつわる名前を持つロボッ卜戦士に変形する。それこそが「げえ!
aロボット生命体トランスフオ‐マ→においてマスコッ卜的存在で強い印
&を残したTr<ンブル」である。M中でのバンブルは小さい体で■怒哀楽
が泣し<その可愛きと人ffつこい性托で人岡と卜ランスフオ‐マ‐との架
けfjとなつた■要キャラクタ‐である。本商昂はアニメ‐ション本\同
様、車か5ロボットへの完全蛮形を再現し、様々なボ‐ズをとる■が可能
である。交換用フェイスパ‐ヅが付庸してお0、勇敢にftに立ち向かう戦
士の頂か5`彼の持つ人倍の優しきと包客カを轟した笑硬に付け替える
ことができる。き5にはビ‐クルモ‐ドに蛮形可能なエクセルス‐ツも付
屈している。この人間味泣れるキャラクタ‐のバンブルビ‐を\\な付屈
晶と共にあなたのコレクションに加えていただきたい。

Well that wasn't his bio apparently ...

Volkswagen Wa - Gen-Taib T (Koshobi - torr) l by the German word - to the current company
Therefore, it is 0 Jiang blown small self-M cars. Some of this round <love fj Kurumagabi - Bokurudo
Like, transformed into robot Bok warrior whose name surrounding insects. That's what "Gee!
a robot life Toransufuo - strong mark in Masuko~tsu Bok existence between →
& Is a Tr <tumble "which was leaving. Bumble in a M is a small body and ■ anger Airaku
There is crying and <the Kawaiki with people ff Tsukoi of stipules Bok with people Oka in Ransufuo - Ma - a mosquito
Only fj and the Natsuta ■ main character - is. This ShoNoboru anime - tion this \ same
Like, and to reproduce the full 蛮形 to car or 5 robot, various ball - to take Figure ■ can
Is. Replacement Feisupa - Dzu is to TsukeIsao Contact 0, war to confront bravely ft
And replace the Gentle and Tsutsumikyakuka of people doubles Emikata you roar with Judges top or 5` of his
Thing I can. Is a tree 5 bi - Kurumo - soil 蛮形 possible Excel scan - tree with even
Have succumbed. This impersonal crying is character - of Banburubi - a the \\ and Tsuke屈
I would like to add to your collection with the crystal.

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:12 pm**

Seibertron wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:My bad, it's the box-back:

I would consider that a typo since that's the only reference of it as "Spike" whereas we have line-art from Takara showing it as Daniel, the instructions show Daniel, and the shape of the head is Daniel.

Also, are we sure that it doesn't say something like "Daniel is wearing Spike's Exo-Suit" or "Spike built the Exo-Suit". Is Daniel's name in the text anywhere on the box?

I looked all over but "Daniel" isn't mentioned anywhere. Then again, I also considered the possibility that "Spike's Exo-Suit" could be viewed as "Exo-Suit built by Spike". That could mean that TakaraTomy intended the fans to decide who he actually is as the focus is more on the suit itself rather than the one piloting it. Japanese is like any language that way...

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:14 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
Seibertron wrote:Also, are we sure that it doesn't say something like "Daniel is wearing Spike's Exo-Suit" or "Spike built the Exo-Suit". Is Daniel's name in the text anywhere on the box?
I wondered something like that, myself. The text エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。 basically translates to saying "Spike's Excel Suit also transforms." But the parsing of it as "Spike's Excel Suit" (as in "Ekuseru Suuto no Supaiku") could be a reference to how the suit worn by Daniel in the movie belonged to his father. So even though it's "Spike's Exo-Suit", it's still Daniel who's wearing it.

As for whether or not Daniel's name is mentioned anywhere on the box, the entirety of the text on the whole box is a bit small for me to tell (even in the biggest images), but if Daniel's name is mentioned anywhere, it would look like this:

ダニエル

There are close-ups of the text in my gallery of Bumblebee. You can use this Japanese OCR I just found ...

http://maggie.ocrgrid.org/nhocr/

If you need larger cropped images of specific text, just let me know where and I can get them from my original images before they are shrunk down for the web.

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:15 pm**

Boy, the three of us are fast posters.

So, I guess that's it. Daniel's not mentioned, the toy's only called "Exo-Suit", the one reference to Spike might just be a reference to how the suit belonged to him, but it's still very much Daniel's noggin inside the thing.

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:18 pm**

The image of what I assume is his bio in his instructions is too low res ... if you guys think that text might reveal something, I can photograph it again up close so that we can use the OCR convertor on it to see if there are any hints there.

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:21 pm**

I'm scanning the Exo-Suit text from the instructions right now so that we can get a clearer scan of it for the OCR.

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:25 pm**

My scan wasn't perfect so not all of the characters translated ... but I think the last line of the translation says all I need to know.

instructions wrote:/Wi用に作5れたパワ‐ドス‐ツ。腕力が強化きれ重量のある瓦蝶なども寧々と持ち上げる事ギで
aもn ビ‐クルモ‐ドへの卜ランス7ォ‐ムも可能で四つの車輪を使い、他のサイパ卜口ン同様の
>ビ-ドで走行が可能である。両腕は変形し銃器とな0レ‐ザ‐光線の発射が可能だ。初葦場は「ト
ユフオ‐マ‐ザ・ム‐ビ‐」であ0大人になユたスパイクとダニエルが装着した。

/ Product 5 was power for Wi - Dos - tree. With formic able to lift and such as tile butterflies brute strength is the strengthening out weight also Nene
a also n bi - Kurumo - Bok lance 7 ~O to do - No also possible to use four of the wheels, I mouth down similar other Saipa
> Bi - it is possible to run with earth. Arms deformed firearms and such 0 Les - The -'s possible launch of rays. Hatsuashi-jo "SHOOTING
Yufuo - Ma - The Mu - Beauty - "Der 0 Yu was Spike and Daniel, such adult wears.

Daniel in Japanese: ダニエル

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:28 pm**

The instructions' text is a description of the Exo-Suit itself and mentions both Spike and Daniel, but as those who have worn it rather than as the subject of the text.

So, yeah, it's still Daniel's head, while the toy itself is marketed with the identity of just "Exo-Suit".

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