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Deadput wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:

Deadput wrote:
[Scourge and Highbrow] do share the same base skeleton though most parts are completely different

So like I said, it's not the same mold.

Read the bottem

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Retool

To be fair though, they arent the authority, its just fans writing for fans. We can still make our own personal definitions. I also dont see them as retools because the whole point of a retool is that there was something initial that was then changed. but in this case, it was designed that way from the start. Basically, you cannot say one is a retool of the other, and because of that I find the word retool to not work here. I much preffer shared engineering/parts. Which is something that dates from g1 with the throttlebots and other toys that share a very similar engineering.

EmirateXaaron wrote:Has anyone had trouble with stress markers on the joints of Galvatron? I found one crammed in the back of a Wal-Mart shelf a couple weeks ago, and I'm just now noticing that there's small stress marks along the purple plastic where the elbow pins are. Is this just my copy? Or have others had stress mark issues?

My Galvatron is fine in that area, but stress marks around pin joints are not uncommon due to the force needed to insert them. If the aim is a teeny bit off, who knows what can happen.

Deadput wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:

Deadput wrote:
[Scourge and Highbrow] do share the same base skeleton though most parts are completely different

So like I said, it's not the same mold.

Read the bottem

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Retool

I somewhat disagree with the wiki to be bluntly honest, only because of the way figures are designed in Titans Return it makes it hard to properly pick out the retools by currently-used definitions. IMO, the real retools are:

Head Retools
Skytread with Terri-Bull
Clobber with Crashbash

Ravage with Stripes
Rewind with Rumble
Roadburn with Bumblebee

Breakaway with Chromedome
Krok with Skullsmasher
Quake with Hardhead

Astrotrain with Sentinel Prime

Body Retools
Brainstorm out of Blurr
Soundwave with Blaster

The likes of:

Scourge & Highbrow
Blurr & Chromedome
Broadside & Alpha Trion

... I consider part-sharers, or co-developed as mentioned before. Same rough base, same minor parts, but they go beyond the pretooling seen in Combiner Wars in that the transformation is not entirely the same between two figures of a pair. But they are related for the sole reason their shared parts happen to include the Titan Master (making poor Stylor most often used thanks to Chromedome's unique position).

I wouldnt even consider those retools Jelze. Like Sentinel and Astrotrain. Those are just redecos. Sure the head is different, but that itself is its own robot, it might have nothing to do with the actual mold of the toy. And even then, its not like the faces have changed tooling from the other, they just have different faces. Its a new part. its not like someone took the face mold of one and made a change, they just slapped a new face that had nothing to do with the previous mold onto the exact same little titan master figure.

I actually believe that the term retool should be retired from here on out unless they actually really do take an existing mold and do changes to it (which seems to not happen anymore).

william-james88 wrote:I actually believe that the term retool should be retired from here on out unless they actually really do take an existing mold and do changes to it (which seems to not happen anymore).

Powermaster Optimus Prime?

william-james88 wrote:I wouldnt even consider those retools Jelze. Like Sentinel and Astrotrain. Those are just redecos. Sure the head is different, but that itself is its own robot, it might have nothing to do with the actual mold of the toy. And even then, its not like the faces have changed tooling from the other, they just have different faces. Its a new part. its not like someone took the face mold of one and made a change, they just slapped a new face that had nothing to do with the previous mold onto the exact same little titan master figure.

I actually believe that the term retool should be retired from here on out unless they actually really do take an existing mold and do changes to it (which seems to not happen anymore).

I think the fan-usage of the term "Retool" is here to stay, despite the official definition (permanent changes to an existing tooling, i.e. set of molds used for producing toys) used by Hasbro. It may not be correct, but then again, it provides a term for grouping releases.

fenrir72 wrote:"62841/ #CO286"

Eh? That's not correct, is it? I thought the Leader Class assortment code is "B7997" as shown above the barcode. And the "O" is actually a zero.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I wouldnt even consider those retools Jelze. Like Sentinel and Astrotrain. Those are just redecos. Sure the head is different, but that itself is its own robot, it might have nothing to do with the actual mold of the toy. And even then, its not like the faces have changed tooling from the other, they just have different faces. Its a new part. its not like someone took the face mold of one and made a change, they just slapped a new face that had nothing to do with the previous mold onto the exact same little titan master figure.

I actually believe that the term retool should be retired from here on out unless they actually really do take an existing mold and do changes to it (which seems to not happen anymore).

I think the fan-usage of the term "Retool" is here to stay, despite the official definition (permanent changes to an existing tooling, i.e. set of molds used for producing toys) used by Hasbro. It may not be correct, but then again, it provides a term for grouping releases.

fenrir72 wrote:"62841/ #CO286"

Eh? That's not correct, is it? I thought the Leader Class assortment code is "B7997" as shown above the barcode. And the "O" is actually a zero.

Isnt that just the code found on the actual toy, engraved or stamped on it? Anyways, its sixshot.

And Kurona, PMOP might work as an actual retool. Yeah, I would count that, good call. The leader Seekers are a great example too.

william-james88 wrote:I also don't see them as retools because the whole point of a retool is that there was something initial that was then changed. but in this case, it was designed that way from the start. Basically, you cannot say one is a retool of the other, and because of that I find the word retool to not work here. I much preffer shared engineering/parts. Which is something that dates from g1 with the throttlebots and other toys that share a very similar engineering.

You made me think about Armada Skywarp I would imagine he's commonly referred to as retool/remould - but the guy who designed it said it's not an alternation to the existing Starscream mould or new pieces designed to replace the old ones - but a whole new mould that is based on Starscream.

I guess that is what is happening with Scourge/Blurr/Chromedome/Highbrow etc..

Someone is opening a CAD/CAM file and copy and pasting whole sections with no changes. which if that is the case why can't they keep the shape and change the scribing lines or decoration on them at the same time so no one even notices they used the same piece twice (in terms of design)?

BombshellDaBug wrote:I'm loving most of these figure reveals! The only ones that I'm wary of are Krok and Broadside. I've seen a review that said Krok has the exact same problems as Skullsmasher with the leg joints, so unfortunately I'm going to have to pass on him. It's a shame considering that I love adding IDW characters to my collection, but not if he has the same problems as Skullsmasher.

I think out of all of these Deluxes, I'm gonna have to snag Quake. I don't like the green on Hardhead, which is why I passed on him, and Quake's color scheme is just so much better in my opinion. Seriously, it's one badass looking toy.

Try Clear Nailpolish ; it will work wonders on floppy Crocodiles.
The gun isn't such a tight fit in the tail on Krok as it was though previously on Skullsmasher/Skullcruncher.

I just noticed Other than Quake - Quake's toy resembles 6" Titanium "Cobra" Megatron a lot too - It will be fun to nail home that point with a temp-swap of heads with Voyager Megatron.

william-james88 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I wouldnt even consider those retools Jelze. Like Sentinel and Astrotrain. Those are just redecos. Sure the head is different, but that itself is its own robot, it might have nothing to do with the actual mold of the toy. And even then, its not like the faces have changed tooling from the other, they just have different faces. Its a new part. its not like someone took the face mold of one and made a change, they just slapped a new face that had nothing to do with the previous mold onto the exact same little titan master figure.

I actually believe that the term retool should be retired from here on out unless they actually really do take an existing mold and do changes to it (which seems to not happen anymore).

I think the fan-usage of the term "Retool" is here to stay, despite the official definition (permanent changes to an existing tooling, i.e. set of molds used for producing toys) used by Hasbro. It may not be correct, but then again, it provides a term for grouping releases.

fenrir72 wrote:"62841/ #CO286"

Eh? That's not correct, is it? I thought the Leader Class assortment code is "B7997" as shown above the barcode. And the "O" is actually a zero.

Isnt that just the code found on the actual toy, engraved or stamped on it? Anyways, its sixshot.

And Kurona, PMOP might work as an actual retool. Yeah, I would count that, good call. The leader Seekers are a great example too.

Correct. It's on the toy itself.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I wouldnt even consider those retools Jelze. Like Sentinel and Astrotrain. Those are just redecos. Sure the head is different, but that itself is its own robot, it might have nothing to do with the actual mold of the toy. And even then, its not like the faces have changed tooling from the other, they just have different faces. Its a new part. its not like someone took the face mold of one and made a change, they just slapped a new face that had nothing to do with the previous mold onto the exact same little titan master figure.

I actually believe that the term retool should be retired from here on out unless they actually really do take an existing mold and do changes to it (which seems to not happen anymore).

I think the fan-usage of the term "Retool" is here to stay, despite the official definition (permanent changes to an existing tooling, i.e. set of molds used for producing toys) used by Hasbro. It may not be correct, but then again, it provides a term for grouping releases.

fenrir72 wrote:"62841/ #CO286"

Eh? That's not correct, is it? I thought the Leader Class assortment code is "B7997" as shown above the barcode. And the "O" is actually a zero.

Aye + what country is that code for? coz the id code in the UK may differ? not sure though

but yes...at the end of the day it's still Sixshot

Stuartmaximus wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I wouldnt even consider those retools Jelze. Like Sentinel and Astrotrain. Those are just redecos. Sure the head is different, but that itself is its own robot, it might have nothing to do with the actual mold of the toy. And even then, its not like the faces have changed tooling from the other, they just have different faces. Its a new part. its not like someone took the face mold of one and made a change, they just slapped a new face that had nothing to do with the previous mold onto the exact same little titan master figure.

I actually believe that the term retool should be retired from here on out unless they actually really do take an existing mold and do changes to it (which seems to not happen anymore).

I think the fan-usage of the term "Retool" is here to stay, despite the official definition (permanent changes to an existing tooling, i.e. set of molds used for producing toys) used by Hasbro. It may not be correct, but then again, it provides a term for grouping releases.

fenrir72 wrote:"62841/ #CO286"

Eh? That's not correct, is it? I thought the Leader Class assortment code is "B7997" as shown above the barcode. And the "O" is actually a zero.

Aye + what country is that code for? coz the id code in the UK may differ? not sure though

but yes...at the end of the day it's still Sixshot

The first 5 numbers are on his left butt cheek. The other 5 on on the right. The "O" is well, not sure if it's an O or 0 so it may be the latter.

Stuartmaximus wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

Stuartmaximus wrote:This is turning into Broadsidegate, but it does look better with the wings like that

The trouble is, you'll be judging it via just the image. At that angle the wings looks a bit wonky. But in hand, it's just right. Also, those wings are what makes the flatbed surface of the carrier. It will, the ship , look even more unbalanced if you widen the "wings".

After owning him a few weeks, if there is a complaint, I'd say its the colors in robot and jet mode that's kind of all over. And his wobbly neck connection.

Erm excuse me but it's not just me that's judging it....it's other people too...about the same or similar issue

oh & btw...did you say you HAVE the figure? you lucky devil coz it's not even out in the UK yet

My bad. The "You" is in generic form not just you stuartm . And yes, I already own one. I have an anecdotal review in the review section.

fenrir72 wrote:

Stuartmaximus wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

Stuartmaximus wrote:This is turning into Broadsidegate, but it does look better with the wings like that

The trouble is, you'll be judging it via just the image. At that angle the wings looks a bit wonky. But in hand, it's just right. Also, those wings are what makes the flatbed surface of the carrier. It will, the ship , look even more unbalanced if you widen the "wings".

After owning him a few weeks, if there is a complaint, I'd say its the colors in robot and jet mode that's kind of all over. And his wobbly neck connection.

Erm excuse me but it's not just me that's judging it....it's other people too...about the same or similar issue

oh & btw...did you say you HAVE the figure? you lucky devil coz it's not even out in the UK yet

My bad. The "You" is in generic form not just you stuartm . And yes, I already own one. I have an anecdotal review in the review section.

Speaking of Blunderbuss, in Carrier mode, another gimmick allows the homunculi/titanmaster to sit on the Carrier's tower. So it's highly probable that Blunderbuss in actual robot mode is as big as a regular robot on scale. Not a wee headmaster/micromaster/human size.No mass shifting.

And, Hb/Takara(?) forgot to include his ax weapon

fenrir72 wrote:Speaking of Blunderbuss, in Carrier mode, another gimmick allows the homunculi/titanmaster to sit on the Carrier's tower. So it's highly probable that Blunderbuss in actual robot mode is as big as a regular robot on scale. Not a wee headmaster/micromaster/human size.No mass shifting.

And, Hb/Takara(?) forgot to include his ax weapon

I think Takara did something similar with their version of Blaster where him as the blue Twincast was a normal sized guy but he became the head of a giant mech suit kinds like with Cerebros and Fortress Maximus.

fenrir72 wrote:Speaking of Blunderbuss, in Carrier mode, another gimmick allows the homunculi/titanmaster to sit on the Carrier's tower. So it's highly probable that Blunderbuss in actual robot mode is as big as a regular robot on scale. Not a wee headmaster/micromaster/human size.No mass shifting.

And, Hb/Takara(?) forgot to include his ax weapon

Hmm.

If someone made a "Collectable Figure" that represented a Titanmaster (bigger than usual) then it looks like Broadside's Titanmaster should be on the top of that list then.

I did notice the same quirk and it also crossed my mind with Alpha Trion too.

Though I would say Astrotrain has some excuse.

It does raise the question of what a Titanmaster actually is though - as I remain completely confused on that point - mainly as it seems in complete contradiction on a case by case basic and changes depending on what that size or scale is depending on which product it is.

I think they want you to think the Robot body is the robot - but something like Titanmaster Brawn completely confuses the whole idea of who is who and what is what.

Broadside also raises the issue of scale in a pretty obvious way (as does Cerebros to some extent) - I suppose you have to image in the little dudes can masshift or the 'seat on the bridge' feature isn't canonical - it's just for fun.

Other wise it would place the Titanmaster as being as big as or even bigger than most of the other Titan Master robots all on his own. which then begs the question is he also that big in the other modes too ?
Is Broadside 300 Foot tall or something ? or a 300 foot long jet ?

Also the toys themselves put the name of the Titanmaster before the name of the body - what does that imply that all the main characters are in bondage to the little guys - that they are just a neo-tector armour for the little fellas !

No wonder Titanmasters keep givings me a headache.

Deadput wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Speaking of Blunderbuss, in Carrier mode, another gimmick allows the homunculi/titanmaster to sit on the Carrier's tower. So it's highly probable that Blunderbuss in actual robot mode is as big as a regular robot on scale. Not a wee headmaster/micromaster/human size.No mass shifting.

And, Hb/Takara(?) forgot to include his ax weapon

I think Takara did something similar with their version of Blaster where him as the blue Twincast was a normal sized guy but he became the head of a giant mech suit kinds like with Cerebros and Fortress Maximus.

Sort of like Brave Max. The "Emissary", iirc was like the size of a regular bot (40 to 60 feet tall) but combined to the body becomes even more big. Brave Max I guess is mucho bigger than Fortmax.

RAR wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Speaking of Blunderbuss, in Carrier mode, another gimmick allows the homunculi/titanmaster to sit on the Carrier's tower. So it's highly probable that Blunderbuss in actual robot mode is as big as a regular robot on scale. Not a wee headmaster/micromaster/human size.No mass shifting.

And, Hb/Takara(?) forgot to include his ax weapon

Hmm.

If someone made a "Collectable Figure" that represented a Titanmaster (bigger than usual) then it looks like Broadside's Titanmaster should be on the top of that list then.

I did notice the same quirk and it also crossed my mind with Alpha Trion too.

Though I would say Astrotrain has some excuse.

It does raise the question of what a Titanmaster actually is though - as I remain completely confused on that point - mainly as it seems in complete contradiction on a case by case basic and changes depending on what that size or scale is depending on which product it is.

I think they want you to think the Robot body is the robot - but something like Titanmaster Brawn completely confuses the whole idea of who is who and what is what.

Broadside also raises the issue of scale in a pretty obvious way (as does Cerebros to some extent) - I suppose you have to image in the little dudes can masshift or the 'seat on the bridge' feature isn't canonical - it's just for fun.

Other wise it would place the Titanmaster as being as big as or even bigger than most of the other Titan Master robots all on his own. which then begs the question is he also that big in the other modes too ?
Is Broadside 300 Foot tall or something ? or a 300 foot long jet ?

Also the toys themselves put the name of the Titanmaster before the name of the body - what does that imply that all the main characters are in bondage to the little guys - that they are just a neo-tector armour for the little fellas !

No wonder Titanmasters keep givings me a headache.

That is why Takara's retcon makes a bit more sense They (Takara TFs) can use the alibi that the black ball bomb messed up their original bodies and that the size of their heads remained the same. So a wiggle room more or less.

I can see Broadside, who already is portrayed as as big as Devastator (seen in "Burden Hardest to Bear") retained his big noggin and used Master Planet science to turn it into a biped form in the form of Blunderbuss.

After some snipping:

fenrir72 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:"62841/ #CO286"

Eh? That's not correct, is it? I thought the Leader Class assortment code is "B7997" as shown above the barcode. And the "O" is actually a zero.

(...)

The first 5 numbers are on his left butt cheek. The other 5 on on the right. The "O" is well, not sure if it's an O or 0 so it may be the latter.

Then the printed "C0286" is the Hasbro product ID number. The engraved "62841" is I think the tooling ID.

Thanks for providing it. By the by, that falls in line with the rest of Wave 3 in Titan Master through Deluxe Class (I need still the ID for Octanus Prime and Blitztron): they all have "C02**"... which brings me to Broadside, who has the ID code C0277 according to the sourced rumor. Unless I'm pretty much mistaken, his code shows he was planned to be in Wave 3, but was split from it and pushed back to Wave 4. The upcoming wave has ID code C10**/C11** (Sergeant Kup C1091, Roadburn C1102, Brawn C1103), keep an eye out for those.

:EDIT: Turns out I was right: Megatron is C0275 and Optimus Prime is C0276.

Stuartmaximus wrote:what country is that code for? coz the id code in the UK may differ? not sure though

Those are the Hasbro internal codes, so they're the same throughout the world.

I couldn't find the same # coding on the Broadside figure but near the the "Made in Vietnam indicia there's this V-2976B(right shin). Same on the box with this included. #63311

fenrir72 wrote:I couldn't find the same # coding on the Broadside figure but near the the "Made in Vietnam indicia there's this V-2976B(right shin). Same on the box with this included. #63311

If you have the actual retail box, it should be on the bottom, right above the bar code. It's formatted <product ID>/<Asst. ID>, like "C0278/B7769Asst."

Here they are.

C0277/B7769 Asst.

fenrir72 wrote:Here they are.

C0277/B7769 Asst.

Thanks again So this means:

- The product codes from the rumor list are right on the money, so C23**/C24** codes should be Wave 5
- Broadside may have had an earlier release planned, possibly with Octanus Prime and Blitztron
- The planned Voyager with the code C10**/C11** may have been booted out, as the next wave Voyagers are Octane, C2396, and Blitzwing, C2397.

Interesting

fenrir72 wrote:

Deadput wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Speaking of Blunderbuss, in Carrier mode, another gimmick allows the homunculi/titanmaster to sit on the Carrier's tower. So it's highly probable that Blunderbuss in actual robot mode is as big as a regular robot on scale. Not a wee headmaster/micromaster/human size.No mass shifting.

And, Hb/Takara(?) forgot to include his ax weapon

I think Takara did something similar with their version of Blaster where him as the blue Twincast was a normal sized guy but he became the head of a giant mech suit kinds like with Cerebros and Fortress Maximus.

Sort of like Brave Max. The "Emissary", iirc was like the size of a regular bot (40 to 60 feet tall) but combined to the body becomes even more big. Brave Max I guess is mucho bigger than Fortmax.

Actually, it was Cerebros who was regular bot sized, making Emissary closer to combiner size...

ThunderThruster wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

Deadput wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Speaking of Blunderbuss, in Carrier mode, another gimmick allows the homunculi/titanmaster to sit on the Carrier's tower. So it's highly probable that Blunderbuss in actual robot mode is as big as a regular robot on scale. Not a wee headmaster/micromaster/human size.No mass shifting.

And, Hb/Takara(?) forgot to include his ax weapon

I think Takara did something similar with their version of Blaster where him as the blue Twincast was a normal sized guy but he became the head of a giant mech suit kinds like with Cerebros and Fortress Maximus.

Sort of like Brave Max. The "Emissary", iirc was like the size of a regular bot (40 to 60 feet tall) but combined to the body becomes even more big. Brave Max I guess is mucho bigger than Fortmax.

Actually, it was Cerebros who was regular bot sized, making Emissary closer to combiner size...

I mean the mini head was like the size of a regular 'bot. Once combined he is like a combiner size then once transformed is bigger than Fortress himself.

I honestly never understood why so many people were so hung up on the size of Cerebros when he became FM's head. I mean Megatron, Soundwave, Perceptor etc...all shrink down to become household items when in alt mode, but a "normal" sized bot turning into a giant head...now that's way too much