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Noideaforaname wrote:*shrug* All I know is my favorite TF toys have next-to-nil fiction while my favorite TF characters have toys I'm avoiding like the plague.

One of my favourites is Decepticharge which has no bio to his name (which is in itself just a placeholder name). I like him because he is really just a toy and doesnt live beyond that concept. he also happens to be an amazing toy, which is great considering that is where he begins and ends.

And Sabr, I completely get it, but even as a kid, I never cared for the bios in the back of my beast war toys. I just wanted Beast Prowl because he looked awesome (never did get him though). However, I did find the tech specs pretty neat.

And Agamemnon, while the fiction behind TFs is part of the factor for the brand's longevity, it is not all there is to it. I say that because GI Joe got the exact same treatment in the 80s rejuvination of that Brand (Marvel Comic, plus show) but those characters have not had the same kind of success as TFs since.

Autobot N wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:Be calm lads no need to pre order. This thing will soon be on clearance.

I have to disagree with your snarky jab at Victorion, as (at least where I live) Combiner Wars figures are rather rare, with most of them (save a few Scattershots and Skywarps at a Walmart) having been bought already. I anticipate Victorion to sell the same way.

As for the implied meaning of your post, I also disagree there. It actually manages to look pretty good, and I really like the common color scheme. I also like that they removed the lipstick from shades copter girl Stormclash (though I have no idea why). The sword looks freakin' awesome, and I really like the whole combine-to-form weapons thing. Also, as Optibotimus said in his review, the amount of paint on them almost makes it seem more like a Club figure than a retail release.

What surprises me is how much I like this, considering I hated it when it was first announced.

As I said it'll go on clearance eventually.

Prowl4 wrote:

Autobot N wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:Be calm lads no need to pre order. This thing will soon be on clearance.

I have to disagree with your snarky jab at Victorion, as (at least where I live) Combiner Wars figures are rather rare, with most of them (save a few Scattershots and Skywarps at a Walmart) having been bought already. I anticipate Victorion to sell the same way.

As for the implied meaning of your post, I also disagree there. It actually manages to look pretty good, and I really like the common color scheme. I also like that they removed the lipstick from shades copter girl Stormclash (though I have no idea why). The sword looks freakin' awesome, and I really like the whole combine-to-form weapons thing. Also, as Optibotimus said in his review, the amount of paint on them almost makes it seem more like a Club figure than a retail release.

What surprises me is how much I like this, considering I hated it when it was first announced.

As I said it'll go on clearance eventually.

Given that I haven't seen a single CW item stay on the shelf for more than a couple months, I doubt that.

Autobot N wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

Autobot N wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:Be calm lads no need to pre order. This thing will soon be on clearance.

I have to disagree with your snarky jab at Victorion, as (at least where I live) Combiner Wars figures are rather rare, with most of them (save a few Scattershots and Skywarps at a Walmart) having been bought already. I anticipate Victorion to sell the same way.

As for the implied meaning of your post, I also disagree there. It actually manages to look pretty good, and I really like the common color scheme. I also like that they removed the lipstick from shades copter girl Stormclash (though I have no idea why). The sword looks freakin' awesome, and I really like the whole combine-to-form weapons thing. Also, as Optibotimus said in his review, the amount of paint on them almost makes it seem more like a Club figure than a retail release.

What surprises me is how much I like this, considering I hated it when it was first announced.

As I said it'll go on clearance eventually.

Given that I haven't seen a single CW item stay on the shelf for more than a couple months, I doubt that.

Oh yeah I hear your area is the benchmark for sales of transformers.

From a large retailer perspective, having the last portion of your stock go on sale is a good thing, yes? What's preferable - buying 2 cases and selling 100% of the items at full price, or buying 3 cases, selling 90% at full price and 10% at a lesser price? Selling all of your stock at full price means you didn't buy enough stock.

In the online marketplace (i.e. large) we see noticeable discounts in the majority of TF items past a certain waiting period, and I doubt Victorion will be an exception (it would be cool if she was, though!).

What I was expecting: Victorion.

What I got:



RiD Wave 1 2016 Legion class case.

Funnier yet is that I never got a shipping notification and they are showing that my package still hasn't shipped and it is processing. And said package isn't supposed to even ship until the middle of the month. To me, it sounds like they saw my info and sent a wrong package when the real one isn't even there and ready to ship yet. We'll see what they say...

RevTibe wrote:From a large retailer perspective, having the last portion of your stock go on sale is a good thing, yes? What's preferable - buying 2 cases and selling 100% of the items at full price, or buying 3 cases, selling 90% at full price and 10% at a lesser price? Selling all of your stock at full price means you didn't buy enough stock.

In the online marketplace (i.e. large) we see noticeable discounts in the majority of TF items past a certain waiting period, and I doubt Victorion will be an exception (it would be cool if she was, though!).

If something is discounted it stands to reason it's either not selling or retailers want to move it because it's taking up shelf space. Victorion will go on clearance. Smart thing to do by companies is to not order a lot of it imo.

Prowl4 wrote:

RevTibe wrote:From a large retailer perspective, having the last portion of your stock go on sale is a good thing, yes? What's preferable - buying 2 cases and selling 100% of the items at full price, or buying 3 cases, selling 90% at full price and 10% at a lesser price? Selling all of your stock at full price means you didn't buy enough stock.

In the online marketplace (i.e. large) we see noticeable discounts in the majority of TF items past a certain waiting period, and I doubt Victorion will be an exception (it would be cool if she was, though!).

If something is discounted it stands to reason it's either not selling or retailers want to move it because it's taking up shelf space. Victorion will go on clearance. Smart thing to do by companies is to not order a lot of it imo.

...you have a very black and white view of the matter, which makes it tricky to explain.

Yes, the "leftovers" which sell more slowly following the initial rush/supply can be called "unwanted product" - but this isn't necessarily a flaw in the product.

It is more profitable to order just a bit too much of a product than a bit too little. No retailer can perfectly estimate the exact number of a product they will sell, after all.

If there are no leftovers, no "unwanted product", then that almost certainly means the retailer ordered too little of the product - that they didn't profit as much as they could have if they had ordered slightly too much.

In short, having "unwanted product" is part of the plan. Yes, retailers might sometimes overestimate the ideal supply by a good portion, but unfortunately the data to accurately analyze that isn't available.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

RevTibe wrote:From a large retailer perspective, having the last portion of your stock go on sale is a good thing, yes? What's preferable - buying 2 cases and selling 100% of the items at full price, or buying 3 cases, selling 90% at full price and 10% at a lesser price? Selling all of your stock at full price means you didn't buy enough stock.

In the online marketplace (i.e. large) we see noticeable discounts in the majority of TF items past a certain waiting period, and I doubt Victorion will be an exception (it would be cool if she was, though!).

If something is discounted it stands to reason it's either not selling or retailers want to move it because it's taking up shelf space. Victorion will go on clearance. Smart thing to do by companies is to not order a lot of it imo.

...you have a very black and white view of the matter, which makes it tricky to explain.

Yes, the "leftovers" which sell more slowly following the initial rush/supply can be called "unwanted product" - but this isn't necessarily a flaw in the product.

It is more profitable to order just a bit too much of a product than a bit too little. No retailer can perfectly estimate the exact number of a product they will sell, after all.

If there are no leftovers, no "unwanted product", then that almost certainly means the retailer ordered too little of the product - that they didn't profit as much as they could have if they had ordered slightly too much.

In short, having "unwanted product" is part of the plan. Yes, retailers might sometimes overestimate the ideal supply by a good portion, but unfortunately the data to accurately analyze that isn't available.

It's a logical view. I'd sooner, as a business, order just enough to sell rather than buy too much. Lets face it this thing isn't hyped to bits or universally wanted nor exciting a lot of fans. Smart thing for businesses to do is order a few and be done with it. I don't see it selling well. It's exciting a minority of people so the businesses would be bonkers to over stock it.

Prowl4 wrote:

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

RevTibe wrote:From a large retailer perspective, having the last portion of your stock go on sale is a good thing, yes? What's preferable - buying 2 cases and selling 100% of the items at full price, or buying 3 cases, selling 90% at full price and 10% at a lesser price? Selling all of your stock at full price means you didn't buy enough stock.

In the online marketplace (i.e. large) we see noticeable discounts in the majority of TF items past a certain waiting period, and I doubt Victorion will be an exception (it would be cool if she was, though!).

If something is discounted it stands to reason it's either not selling or retailers want to move it because it's taking up shelf space. Victorion will go on clearance. Smart thing to do by companies is to not order a lot of it imo.

...you have a very black and white view of the matter, which makes it tricky to explain.

Yes, the "leftovers" which sell more slowly following the initial rush/supply can be called "unwanted product" - but this isn't necessarily a flaw in the product.

It is more profitable to order just a bit too much of a product than a bit too little. No retailer can perfectly estimate the exact number of a product they will sell, after all.

If there are no leftovers, no "unwanted product", then that almost certainly means the retailer ordered too little of the product - that they didn't profit as much as they could have if they had ordered slightly too much.

In short, having "unwanted product" is part of the plan. Yes, retailers might sometimes overestimate the ideal supply by a good portion, but unfortunately the data to accurately analyze that isn't available.

It's a logical view. I'd sooner, as a business, order just enough to sell rather than buy too much.

If it were a logical view, it would not have a massive logical flaw - the fact that it is nigh-impossible to accurately, exactly predict that demand.

How do you propose a business finds out how much is "just enough to sell"? With all the incredibly difficult to measure factors involved in gauging what can affect consumer behaviour here, it is all a business can do to roughly predict a range that they should order within.

There are no tools that can say "We should order 10 cases." - the most they can do is predict "We should probably order between 7 and 13 cases." In these instances, retailers typically lean towards oversupply instead of undersupply.

Prowl4 wrote:Lets face it this thing isn't hyped to bits or universally wanted nor exciting a lot of fans. Smart thing for businesses to do is order a few and be done with it. I don't see it selling well. It's exciting a minority of people so the businesses would be bonkers to over stock it.

Of course businesses aren't overstocking it. No one here's saying businesses should overstock. I'm just pointing out that a product being discounted doesn't indicate it's a failure.

Autobot N wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:As I said it'll go on clearance eventually.

Given that I haven't seen a single CW item stay on the shelf for more than a couple months, I doubt that.

Why are we using random local stores as evidence? And why ar we comparing CW deluxes and voyagers to a 100$ box set that parents probably arent as likely to buy? And plus, item could go on clearance online. Both Takara Menasor and Superion became clearance items online, and of course they couldnt be on store shelves. I bought Encore Fort Max on clearance and he was never in a store, how is one automatically related to another. With a less hyperbolic example, Devastator went on an insane clearance and he wasnt much on store shelves either. How many Year of the Goat exclusives have people seen on the shelves? Guess what, they are still going on clearance. Most big ticket items that are for a small group of people will eventually go on clearance. The G2 Combiners and Victorion will go on clearance too, and you might not even see them in stores.

Also, Autobot N, have the G2 Superions and Menasors been bought off the shelves quickly? I ask because that is the only thing in the CW line that is comparable to Victorion, since they are also big ticket boxsets.

william-james88 wrote:Also, Autobot N, have the G2 Superions and Menasors been bought off the shelves quickly? I ask because that is the only thing in the CW line that is comparable to Victorion, since they are also big ticket boxsets.

If they've been in the stores, then they've been bought to quickly for me to see them. However, I did see a few Devastators that flew off the shelves of TRU.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

RevTibe wrote:From a large retailer perspective, having the last portion of your stock go on sale is a good thing, yes? What's preferable - buying 2 cases and selling 100% of the items at full price, or buying 3 cases, selling 90% at full price and 10% at a lesser price? Selling all of your stock at full price means you didn't buy enough stock.

In the online marketplace (i.e. large) we see noticeable discounts in the majority of TF items past a certain waiting period, and I doubt Victorion will be an exception (it would be cool if she was, though!).

If something is discounted it stands to reason it's either not selling or retailers want to move it because it's taking up shelf space. Victorion will go on clearance. Smart thing to do by companies is to not order a lot of it imo.

...you have a very black and white view of the matter, which makes it tricky to explain.

Yes, the "leftovers" which sell more slowly following the initial rush/supply can be called "unwanted product" - but this isn't necessarily a flaw in the product.

It is more profitable to order just a bit too much of a product than a bit too little. No retailer can perfectly estimate the exact number of a product they will sell, after all.

If there are no leftovers, no "unwanted product", then that almost certainly means the retailer ordered too little of the product - that they didn't profit as much as they could have if they had ordered slightly too much.

In short, having "unwanted product" is part of the plan. Yes, retailers might sometimes overestimate the ideal supply by a good portion, but unfortunately the data to accurately analyze that isn't available.

It's a logical view. I'd sooner, as a business, order just enough to sell rather than buy too much.

If it were a logical view, it would not have a massive logical flaw - the fact that it is nigh-impossible to accurately, exactly predict that demand.

How do you propose a business finds out how much is "just enough to sell"? With all the incredibly difficult to measure factors involved in gauging what can affect consumer behaviour here, it is all a business can do to roughly predict a range that they should order within.

There are no tools that can say "We should order 10 cases." - the most they can do is predict "We should probably order between 7 and 13 cases." In these instances, retailers typically lean towards oversupply instead of undersupply.

Prowl4 wrote:Lets face it this thing isn't hyped to bits or universally wanted nor exciting a lot of fans. Smart thing for businesses to do is order a few and be done with it. I don't see it selling well. It's exciting a minority of people so the businesses would be bonkers to over stock it.

Of course businesses aren't overstocking it. No one here's saying businesses should overstock. I'm just pointing out that a product being discounted doesn't indicate it's a failure.

No flaws to my reasoning at all. The product has no buzz, it has generated none to very little excitement. Hasbro know how little this thing is wanted as do retailers I'm sure. Retailers are not stupid they know what's in demand and what's not. Why would stores order 7 to 13 cases of this?

Sometimes I think Mairghread scott has multiple profiles on these pages.

The fact remains a minority want this item. On the bones of it box sets are expensive, parents aren't going to buy it. The only people buying this are the people hasbro and idw catered to for this awful stain on the fabric of Transformers.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

RevTibe wrote:From a large retailer perspective, having the last portion of your stock go on sale is a good thing, yes? What's preferable - buying 2 cases and selling 100% of the items at full price, or buying 3 cases, selling 90% at full price and 10% at a lesser price? Selling all of your stock at full price means you didn't buy enough stock.

In the online marketplace (i.e. large) we see noticeable discounts in the majority of TF items past a certain waiting period, and I doubt Victorion will be an exception (it would be cool if she was, though!).

If something is discounted it stands to reason it's either not selling or retailers want to move it because it's taking up shelf space. Victorion will go on clearance. Smart thing to do by companies is to not order a lot of it imo.

...you have a very black and white view of the matter, which makes it tricky to explain.

Yes, the "leftovers" which sell more slowly following the initial rush/supply can be called "unwanted product" - but this isn't necessarily a flaw in the product.

It is more profitable to order just a bit too much of a product than a bit too little. No retailer can perfectly estimate the exact number of a product they will sell, after all.

If there are no leftovers, no "unwanted product", then that almost certainly means the retailer ordered too little of the product - that they didn't profit as much as they could have if they had ordered slightly too much.

In short, having "unwanted product" is part of the plan. Yes, retailers might sometimes overestimate the ideal supply by a good portion, but unfortunately the data to accurately analyze that isn't available.

It's a logical view. I'd sooner, as a business, order just enough to sell rather than buy too much.

If it were a logical view, it would not have a massive logical flaw - the fact that it is nigh-impossible to accurately, exactly predict that demand.

How do you propose a business finds out how much is "just enough to sell"? With all the incredibly difficult to measure factors involved in gauging what can affect consumer behaviour here, it is all a business can do to roughly predict a range that they should order within.

There are no tools that can say "We should order 10 cases." - the most they can do is predict "We should probably order between 7 and 13 cases." In these instances, retailers typically lean towards oversupply instead of undersupply.

Prowl4 wrote:Lets face it this thing isn't hyped to bits or universally wanted nor exciting a lot of fans. Smart thing for businesses to do is order a few and be done with it. I don't see it selling well. It's exciting a minority of people so the businesses would be bonkers to over stock it.

Of course businesses aren't overstocking it. No one here's saying businesses should overstock. I'm just pointing out that a product being discounted doesn't indicate it's a failure.

No flaws to my reasoning at all. The product has no buzz, it has generated none to very little excitement. Hasbro know how little this thing is wanted as do retailers I'm sure. Retailers are not stupid they know what's in demand and what's not. Why would stores order 7 to 13 cases of this?

Sometimes I think Mairghread scott has multiple profiles on these pages.

The fact remains a minority want this item. On the bones of it box sets are expensive, parents aren't going to buy it. The only people buying this are the people hasbro and idw catered to for this awful stain on the fabric of Transformers.

william-james88 wrote:

Autobot N wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:As I said it'll go on clearance eventually.

Given that I haven't seen a single CW item stay on the shelf for more than a couple months, I doubt that.

Why are we using random local stores as evidence? And why ar we comparing CW deluxes and voyagers to a 100$ box set that parents probably arent as likely to buy? And plus, item could go on clearance online. Both Takara Menasor and Superion became clearance items online, and of course they couldnt be on store shelves. I bought Encore Fort Max on clearance and he was never in a store, how is one automatically related to another. With a less hyperbolic example, Devastator went on an insane clearance and he wasnt much on store shelves either. How many Year of the Goat exclusives have people seen on the shelves? Guess what, they are still going on clearance. Most big ticket items that are for a small group of people will eventually go on clearance. The G2 Combiners and Victorion will go on clearance too, and you might not even see them in stores.

Also, Autobot N, have the G2 Superions and Menasors been bought off the shelves quickly? I ask because that is the only thing in the CW line that is comparable to Victorion, since they are also big ticket boxsets.

I agree, using ones own store is arrogance and ignorance. If that was the case here in Ireland was so popular with Combiner wars we skipped wave 2 and 3 and went straight to wave 4.

Online retailers like bbts, tfsource, kapow, amazon etc give you a fair idea of what's in demand and what's not. Guess what Victorion ain't going to be in demand.

Autobot N wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Also, Autobot N, have the G2 Superions and Menasors been bought off the shelves quickly? I ask because that is the only thing in the CW line that is comparable to Victorion, since they are also big ticket boxsets.

If they've been in the stores, then they've been bought to quickly for me to see them. However, I did see a few Devastators that flew off the shelves of TRU.

And yet there were crazy discounts for Devastator at Walmart and Costco.

There are a ton of those box sets everywhere I look:





I am just waiting for clearance.

This is Devastator on Clearance:



This stuff goes on clearance, Victorion will too. But who knows if it will sell out quick once the price lowers, that is the thing I cant guarantee.

Prowl4 wrote:No flaws to my reasoning at all. The product has no buzz, it has generated none to very little excitement. Hasbro know how little this thing is wanted as do retailers I'm sure. Retailers are not stupid they know what's in demand and what's not.

Your statement “I'd sooner, as a business, order just enough to sell rather than buy too much.” assumes businesses can accurately predict the exact amount a product will sell. That’s flawed. You estimate a range, and order in the lower or higher portions of that range.

Additionally, I never mentioned anything about it being a high-demand item. I’m not sure if anyone has - it's more of a specialty product, a la Computron and G2 Menasor/Superion. I was simply pointing out that your logic regarding a product going on clearance was flawed, and you're drawing sweeping conclusions with insufficient data.

Prowl4 wrote:Sometimes I think Mairghread scott has multiple profiles on these pages.

...what?

Prowl4 wrote:this awful stain on the fabric of Transformers.

Take a chill pill.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:No flaws to my reasoning at all. The product has no buzz, it has generated none to very little excitement. Hasbro know how little this thing is wanted as do retailers I'm sure. Retailers are not stupid they know what's in demand and what's not.

Your statement “I'd sooner, as a business, order just enough to sell rather than buy too much.” assumes businesses can accurately predict the exact amount a product will sell. That’s flawed. You estimate a range, and order in the lower or higher portions of that range.

Additionally, I never mentioned anything about it being a high-demand item. I’m not sure if anyone has - it's more of a specialty product, a la Computron and G2 Menasor/Superion. I was simply pointing out that your logic regarding a product going on clearance was flawed, and you're drawing sweeping conclusions with insufficient data.

Prowl4 wrote:Sometimes I think Mairghread scott has multiple profiles on these pages.

...what?

Prowl4 wrote:this awful stain on the fabric of Transformers.

Take a chill pill.

You ever work in business? I can tell you I worked in a business and that's how they ran things and were very successful. No business wants a product that has no hype, buzz or possibility of selling well in high quantities so they will order the bare minimum, if they're smart. So not flawed at all .

There's a sweeping statement for you equating this thing to g2 menasor and superion. The difference is menasor and superion have a much bigger following both in fans and nostalgia plus bright colours that kids will like. Victorion has none of the above save a gaudy colour scheme.

The mairghread scott comment is a swipe.

It is an awful stain on Transformers though there's no two ways about it.

Prowl4 wrote:You ever work in business? I can tell you I worked in a business and that's how they ran things and were very successful. No business wants a product that has no hype, buzz or possibility of selling well in high quantities so they will order the bare minimum, if they're smart. So not flawed at all .

We're talking big brand stores here, Amazons, Wal-marts etc. Yes, smaller businesses are more conservative in their estimates, but that's not relevant here. Besides, by your logic, Devastator was "unwanted" - he's on clearance with big name sites!

Prowl4 wrote:The mairghread scott comment is a swipe.

I know it's a swipe, but that doesn't stop it from being baffling. "You must be a Transformers author I personally dislike!" "A" for effort, I guess.

Prowl4 wrote:I agree, using ones own store is arrogance and ignorance. If that was the case here in Ireland was so popular with Combiner wars we skipped wave 2 and 3 and went straight to wave 4.

Of course I'm not using only the stores around me. I've been to many stores in different places in the US like Orange County, Knoxville, and others, and the only CW figures that shelfwarmed were the W1 Voyagers and the W4 Deluxes.
Also, I'm not going to comment further in this argument due to the fact that I had originally forgot about how stocked WJ88's TRU's are, so there's no point in continuing to argue my case.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:You ever work in business? I can tell you I worked in a business and that's how they ran things and were very successful. No business wants a product that has no hype, buzz or possibility of selling well in high quantities so they will order the bare minimum, if they're smart. So not flawed at all .

We're talking big brand stores here, Amazons, Wal-marts etc. Yes, smaller businesses are more conservative in their estimates, but that's not relevant here. Besides, by your logic, Devastator was "unwanted" - he's on clearance with big name sites!

Prowl4 wrote:The mairghread scott comment is a swipe.

I know it's a swipe, but that doesn't stop it from being baffling. "You must be a Transformers author I personally dislike!" "A" for effort, I guess.

Smaller businesses haha you are presumptuous I worked for a top business that sold gym equipment and this was how they worked.

You're not actually comparing devastator to victorion are you? Dear god.

She's an awful writer I wouldn't bestow the title author on that hack.

Prowl4 has convinced me. I'm getting Victorion.

Mr Skram wrote:Prowl4 has convinced me. I'm getting Victorion.

Congratulations on wasting your money.

Prowl4 wrote:

Mr Skram wrote:Prowl4 has convinced me. I'm getting Victorion.

Congratulations on wasting your money.

To some, it might not be a waste. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.