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Malicron wrote:So, the million dollar question (or $300, more accurately) is this: How many of these figures are actually breaking? Basically, is this a GPS-like situation, and the entire production run is doomed to this fate, or is this design just suffering from production defects, and only some of them are breaking? If it's the latter, what percentage (roughly) are breaking? 1 in 10, 1 in 5? How wide spread is this?

Hard to say, because the process of breaking seems to have already started in the box if the stress marks present are anything to go by. They may hold, but we don't really know for how long. Reviewers so far manage to keep their figures in one piece, so careful handling (like you would an antique porcelain doll) seems to be key here. Above all, read the instructions, it has extra precautions listed on how to transform certain areas... just not for the hips.

Malicron wrote:So, the million dollar question (or $300, more accurately) is this: How many of these figures are actually breaking? Basically, is this a GPS-like situation, and the entire production run is doomed to this fate, or is this design just suffering from production defects, and only some of them are breaking? If it's the latter, what percentage (roughly) are breaking? 1 in 10, 1 in 5? How wide spread is this?

We don't know. All we know is that there are now between a dozen and 20 confirmed reports of breakage in the exact same area and most appear to be like that out of the box.
It really is the luck of the draw due to how the plastic was done for the crotch area.

Finally got some time for the figure. I took great care into transforming it into robot mode, watching a video beforehand, and I'm happy to say that no breakage occurred.
The crotch area does show a few stress marks though, but those were present beforehand: probably the chosen plastic itself is to blame, yet I can't really be sure.
Now the figure is under strict observation on a shelf, and in the unlucky event that something happens to it while simply standing (I put it in a little more dynamic pose, though), I'll make sure to keep you posted... as soon as I finish crying, of course.

I popped this guy open in an attempt to see what's up. Haven't had any breaks myself but it's all screw assembled in the scary parts so figured I'd check it out.

Before I get too far, consider the words of a chemical engineer. It could just be that you need to wait for Winter to actually end before messing with him. I live in a pretty warm, humid place and had no issues. It makes sense that higher temperatures would be more favorable to allowing plastic to flex a little where needed, so possibility one is that if it's cold where you are, you just need to warm-up this guy's crotch a bit with your hands before you go messing with his hips. I know how that sounds, wear your grown-up hat for a few

That said, the visible lines in the pearlescent plastic appear to be evidence of an actual flaw. I haven't been able to figure out if the correct term here is "jetting", "flow lines", or something else entirely, but those indeed seem to signal a poor mix or flawed injection molding technique.

I decided to just loosen up the inside of the whole crotch assembly. Shush. Getting it apart is very easy, you need a couple small screwdrivers and that's it. Once the screws are removed, angle the torso forward to allow it to let go of the midsection assembly. Be careful to not let stuff just fall, I did this and had a spring pop out, hit me in the forehead and then proceed on its way to oblivion. Ended up using a junker Galaxy Force Soundwave hip spring to replace it.

Here's what it looks like when you get it apart:


That middle silver screw connects the toothed ratchet part to the black diecast hip piece, with the purple metallic piece crammed in between:


Places where diecast and plastic meet are suspect, so I loosened this about a quarter turn. Then, when putting it back together, I made the three screws that hold the metallic crotch pieces together tight but not overtorqued like they were in the factory, as I definitely had some white stress marks inside the part due to this.

Very important things to consider:

1. What I did here seems to have reduced the stress on that part but there's no guarantee it's a permanent fix.
2. THIS WILL MAKE THE HIPS A LITTLE FLOPPY. He can stand ok in both modes, but will now be limited to angles that the ratchets can provide and won't be able to use halfway points like it can out of the box thanks to friction. YMMV on whether or not this matters, it did not to me.
3. I'm not a pro and can't help you if you have trouble, this post is everything I know about it. In other words, tinker at your own risk.

Anyway hope that helps. I don't know if it really does but maybe time will tell. (News staff, please don't post this, it's not nearly definitive enough for that!)

Thanks Scotty, this whole MP BW Megatron thing is becoming scary AF. I know many were a bit skeptical as to how widespread this was, but the more I look into this, the more we are getting confirmation that there is a full on flaw with this toy and how it was assembled/made. Now, we just don't know how often that flaw will lead to an actual crack, but your report is not calming me down, especially that bit about stress marks forming inside the crotch itself

The thing in most cases so far, it was broken right out of the box, but now i am finding reports like this one as well:

I've put mine back as a T-Rex and back in the box, one of the potential "cracks" on the crotch is now an actual crack and I won't be the one that breaks the **** thing - don't think Kapow will feel inclined to come up with a replacement after over a week of playtime. Transformed it back and forth twice and that's it.

That's me waiting for a 3P to come up with a part to replace it then. Sad/AngryFace.

Now not only does this suck for the fan, but it's getting scary too. With the added report of the stress lines forming inside, I can see how it is possible for breaks to happen where they werent around before.

Also, (not directed at anyone here) I have 0 patience for those saying that any reported breakage for this toy is the fault of the person handling it. There are too many cases now, and we know it's a flaw in production. We should be helping eachother (the above report is a nice example) instead of chastising anyone for wanting to transform their figure.

william-james88 wrote:Also, (not directed at anyone here) I have 0 patience for those saying that any reported breakage for this toy is the fault of the person handling it. There are too many cases now, and we know it's a flaw in production. We should be helping eachother (the above report is a nice example) instead of chastising anyone for wanting to transform their figure.

Quoted for emphasis

Springs, overly tight screws, die-cast, the construction, plastic composition... from the sound of it they all share the blame, which would make a fix all the more difficult for the designers.

Has there been any word from Takara on this issue? Surely the news would have reached them by now

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Also, (not directed at anyone here) I have 0 patience for those saying that any reported breakage for this toy is the fault of the person handling it. There are too many cases now, and we know it's a flaw in production. We should be helping eachother (the above report is a nice example) instead of chastising anyone for wanting to transform their figure.

Quoted for emphasis

Springs, overly tight screws, die-cast, the construction, plastic composition... from the sound of it they all share the blame, which would make a fix all the more difficult for the designers.

I would say the die cast is a sign that they were aware that this was a potential failure point. But in a classic case of over engineering they used too many screws to keep everything together (creating a bunch of close holes in the plastic) and strong springs to help support the heavy figure creating pressure, coupled with reports of over torqued screws creating stress forming the perfect storm for breakage.

Normally the crotch would sandwich the ratcheting parts and screwed together from behind where the opening part on his butt would hide them in bot mode. Not sure why they chose to go in from the side instead.

I doubt Takara Tomy will recall the figure. We've had mass complaints of issues with MP-09 breaking, both Takara and Hasbro versions with no recalls as well as minor cases of MP Ultra Magnus' knee joint sheering. Our most recent case of an expensive collectible that should have been recalled, Encore God Fire Convoy and that set's issue with warped parts on every single figure, did get a recall, but Takara Tomy wouldn't admit there was an issue with the figure, the recall was due to a minor issue with the box graphics.

Emerje

Mine hasn't cracked yet, but it has several signs he will eventually. Unfortunate, cause you can't fix the chemistry here, it's nonrepairable.

Some interesting stuff over at TFW as people try to see what is wrong and if there is a way to avoid a problem. there seems to be a miss assembly (to go along with the questionable plastic):

My friend, who's copy was cracked right out of the box, brought his over, and I took a look.

At first, nothing seemed different, but then I took off the ratchet piece., and it was definitely miss assembled at the factory. The diecast hip bar has a square peg. The purple ratchet has a square hole. His, however, was put on wrong, somehow not lining up the square to square.

You can see the ratchet was put on rotated 45 degrees from where it should, and forced down enough that it smashed the plastic down. Those corners at the green arrow shouldn't be there, and were created by forcing the part down over diecast hip joint. You can see the smashed plastic at the red arrows.



Here's another angle without the arrows so you can see the smashed down plastic a little better.



And compared to how it should look



So what does this do? Well that damaged ratchet doesn't sit down as far as it should, since there's now smashed plastic in they way of it sitting properly. I'd also guess the internal circular section is pushed outward slightly too. All of which, in turn, will create extra tension and stress when two crotch have were screwed, too tightly, together, causing the crack. You can see below that the affected ratchet, on the right side in this picture, does sit slightly further out than the one of the left.

Hmm ...

I really need to take mine apart. I really want to see what's going on inside, especially since mine does NOT have any damage (yet). I'm encouraged that the damage is common but not widespread. I will keep all of you posted with pics (if necessary) when I take mine apart.

So far, my MP-43 is doing okay. Granted, I haven’t moved his legs since I posed him. Although there is definitely swirling going on in the plastic.

Is this the kind of thing that super glue will take care of?

Nemesis Maximo wrote:So far, my MP-43 is doing okay. Granted, I haven’t moved his legs since I posed him. Although there is definitely swirling going on in the plastic.

Is this the kind of thing that super glue will take care of?

Super glue is a band-aid. Would you put a band-aid on your Megatron's crotch?

Seibertron wrote:

Nemesis Maximo wrote:So far, my MP-43 is doing okay. Granted, I haven’t moved his legs since I posed him. Although there is definitely swirling going on in the plastic.

Is this the kind of thing that super glue will take care of?

Super glue is a band-aid. Would you put a band-aid on your Megatron's crotch?

Well... I’m not going to kiss it no matter how nicely he asks.

But I see your point.

So, two things to say:

First, I was one of the ones who early on said the broken crotch was just a case of ham hands. I was wrong, and I'm sorry, which brings me to my second point.

We were visiting with my brother in law this past weekend. He used to work in the qc department of injection molding in one of the RV businesses around here. He also did a lot with plastics there, so he has experience. I had him look at Megatron.


Here is the deal, if your crotch isn't broken, it will be, its just a matter of time.

He took one look at it, and said that the mix on that plastic is pretty bad. He was actually shocked that a major company would let that slide by. The things you see that look like fractures are just that. Those are the very lines he will brake on, again, its just a matter of time.

It quite depressed me.

Ironhidensh wrote:He took one look at it, and said that the mix on that plastic is pretty bad. He was actually shocked that a major company would let that slide by. The things you see that look like fractures are just that. Those are the very lines he will brake on, again, its just a matter of time.

It quite depressed me.

So to recap:

- We have a confirmed missassembly at the factory level with the inner ratchets
- That same area also has a mix of springs and die cast adding tension
- All of this is within a plastic shell that is confirmed to have been poorly put together at the mixing stage

They really should have made the crotch die cast instead of the hips (though ideally both would be). The hip joints are thick enough that they (if using proper plastic) probably can take the twisting of the joint without stressing. It would have saved so many engineering issues.

Emerje

william-james88 wrote:
So to recap:

- We have a confirmed missassembly at the factory level with the inner ratchets
- That same area also has a mix of springs and die cast adding tension
- All of this is within a plastic shell that is confirmed to have been poorly put together at the mixing stage

Pretty much. The plastic is my main concern as that color is not unique to the hips. It's not quite GPS-related from what I can tell, but it is seemingly weakened by improper mixing and thus not up to the task it was assigned to.

One final note: MP BW Megatron had already been delayed 2 months. You think we would have had to wait even longer had this issue been discovered before production began?

william-james88 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:He took one look at it, and said that the mix on that plastic is pretty bad. He was actually shocked that a major company would let that slide by. The things you see that look like fractures are just that. Those are the very lines he will brake on, again, its just a matter of time.

It quite depressed me.

So to recap:

- We have a confirmed missassembly at the factory level with the inner ratchets
- That same area also has a mix of springs and die cast adding tension
- All of this is within a plastic shell that is confirmed to have been poorly put together at the mixing stage

And all of this for the low, low cost of $300

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

william-james88 wrote:
So to recap:

- We have a confirmed missassembly at the factory level with the inner ratchets
- That same area also has a mix of springs and die cast adding tension
- All of this is within a plastic shell that is confirmed to have been poorly put together at the mixing stage

Pretty much. The plastic is my main concern as that color is not unique to the hips. It's not quite GPS-related from what I can tell, but it is seemingly weakened by improper mixing and thus not up to the task it was assigned to.

One final note: MP BW Megatron had already been delayed 2 months. You think we would have had to wait even longer had this issue been discovered before production began?

Look at how much is expected of that ratchet:



Its being stripped

Don't tell me that spring is so strong it's actually pushing that cog into the inner housing?!

Better add "too strong springs" to that second note.

william-james88 wrote:Look at how much is expected of that ratchet:

I'm not sure what you are stating. That's a standard "transforming noise" click-click-click ratchet that's been in Transformers for decades. Knowing the problem that some have had with this toy, it looks like maybe the teeth of that ratchet could be sanded/trimmed down, and that perhaps the spring needs to be shortened a little bit to reduce the amount of stress applied to the exterior walls of the purple plastic.

Also something I've noticed: the screw isn't perfectly centered, but pushed towards the left. Emphasis on "pushed"

Y'all, this assclown right here.

His eyes naturally settle into this "Rolling my eyes" pose, no matter what mode he's in.

He is giving me attitude, yessss

Would you rather broken crotch instead?