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chuckdawg1999 wrote:

Mkall wrote:Honestly, I think the previous one was more complete. That one had all the paint apps and individual robot/vehicle accessories, missing only Menasor's head. This one is missing alot of those bits, missing a bunch of vehicle-mode paint apps, but comes with a G1 Menasor head to make it look more complete and a decent story behind it though.

Hard to say if it'll do better or worse than the last, and it's my understanding the previous one's buyer suffered remorse and asked for a refund from the seller, claiming it was mis-advertised.

Really? Did the buyer get the refund? I'm really curious as to how many of these are out there.

Rumor was cash or protos were offered to make amends. Regardless, about a year later the buyer resold it, http://www.ebay.com/itm/301678256100

It hurts my eyes!

I think, I'll stick with my CW G2 Menasor it didn't cost me as much and I can play with it

Got my combiner wars version for $30. I'm good

I wouldn't be surprised if someone was bootlegging these things and cranking them out to sell for stupid amounts of money. Bloody knockoff merchants mutter mutter.

And we're over $2,000. A lot slower than I would have thought.

Mkall wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

Mkall wrote:Honestly, I think the previous one was more complete. That one had all the paint apps and individual robot/vehicle accessories, missing only Menasor's head. This one is missing alot of those bits, missing a bunch of vehicle-mode paint apps, but comes with a G1 Menasor head to make it look more complete and a decent story behind it though.

Hard to say if it'll do better or worse than the last, and it's my understanding the previous one's buyer suffered remorse and asked for a refund from the seller, claiming it was mis-advertised.

Really? Did the buyer get the refund? I'm really curious as to how many of these are out there.

Dunno actually, I saw the story play out on TFW where the buyer bought it as it was advertised as a nearly one of a kind holy grail type item, only afterwards to be notified by the 'really really high end collectors' that we TF fans barely know exist and was told that in their circles the G2 prototypes aren't that rare, and there were a few that were actually complete. I don't recall if the buyer said if he got his refund.

Still, these things are pretty neat to look at when they surface.

It's funny you mention those collectors. I always hear stories about them here and there but like you said, they don't make themselves known. I wonder if they're ashamed of the rest of us.

(What follows is speculation and rumor, not thinly veiled fact presented as such.)

I heard rumor this past Botcon that there are a couple dozen more-or-less complete ones being hoarded and slowly trickled out. That feels a little too tin-foil hat for me, but I'd still caution folks against thinking these are as scarce as once believed.

Super rare, yes, but I think it's closer to the Lucky Draw realm quantity wise than the "once in a lifetime" one.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:
It's funny you mention those collectors. I always hear stories about them here and there but like you said, they don't make themselves known. I wonder if they're ashamed of the rest of us.

Double posting easier on mobile than editing and pasting in another quote, sorry for this in advance.

Anyhow, the couple of folks I've met that can afford to be at the true high end of collecting Transformers are often too busy making the money that allows them to make that part of their lifestyle to be super actively involved with the fan community at large.

ScottyP wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:
It's funny you mention those collectors. I always hear stories about them here and there but like you said, they don't make themselves known. I wonder if they're ashamed of the rest of us.

Double posting easier on mobile than editing and pasting in another quote, sorry for this in advance.

Anyhow, the couple of folks I've met that can afford to be at the true high end of collecting Transformers are often too busy making the money that allows them to make that part of their lifestyle to be super actively involved with the fan community at large.

That's a possibility, or they're part of the secret Transformers Illuminate that controls everything Fandom wise.

ScottyP wrote:(What follows is speculation and rumor, not thinly veiled fact presented as such.)

I heard rumor this past Botcon that there are a couple dozen more-or-less complete ones being hoarded and slowly trickled out. That feels a little too tin-foil hat for me, but I'd still caution folks against thinking these are as scarce as once believed.

Super rare, yes, but I think it's closer to the Lucky Draw realm quantity wise than the "once in a lifetime" one.

That sounds like what some collectors do in the retro video game community. They buy up all the copies of rare games to control the price.

I like both rare minicons and rare minibots but I've been able to trip over both over the years without having to pay much for them.

It's not something I want to pay hundreds for though. It's nice to have somethings that some people didn't even know existed though.

But just because something is rare doesn't mean it's desirable that is often the case with some test shots that ebay seller simply can not get rid of for years on end even after repeated reductions in price.

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I used to collect Prototypes but the availability got much rarer once the manufacturing moved away from china so I sort of moved over to KO's instead.

And frankly there is some KO's that are every bit as exciting quirky or interesting as legit samples are. In fact several of my grail items are KO's such as the repainted KO G1 Scorponok for example.

Only ended up going for $10,700. Almost a full $10,000 less than the last set seen. I think the difference was that the previous set had stickers applied, and was bagged.

I still wonder why I've never seen a G2 Defensor up for auction on eBay. I've been back into collecting for almost a decade and have seen less than a handful of individual G2 Protectobots up for auction.

Bounti76 wrote:Only ended up going for $10,700. Almost a full $10,000 less than the last set seen. I think the difference was that the previous set had stickers applied, and was bagged.

I still wonder why I've never seen a G2 Defensor up for auction on eBay. I've been back into collecting for almost a decade and have seen less than a handful of individual G2 Protectobots up for auction.

Probably has to do with what Scotty said, there's more G2 Stunticons out there than we first thought.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

Bounti76 wrote:Only ended up going for $10,700. Almost a full $10,000 less than the last set seen. I think the difference was that the previous set had stickers applied, and was bagged.

I still wonder why I've never seen a G2 Defensor up for auction on eBay. I've been back into collecting for almost a decade and have seen less than a handful of individual G2 Protectobots up for auction.

Probably has to do with what Scotty said, there's more G2 Stunticons out there than we first thought.

There may very well be many more G2 Stunticon sets than first thought. But that still doesn't explain my main question: Why are the G2 Protectobots so rare as to be almost nonexistent? I've seen a G2 Blades or two, a G2 Streetwise or two, and one G2 Groove, and that's IT. Never a G2 Hot Spot or G2 First Aid up. And never as a complete set.

My secondary questions are: Would Hasbro ever reissue/produce the G2 Stunticons and Protectobots in G2 colors? And beast combiners aside, we have gotten EVERY single G1 combiner ever released and then some (G2 Menasor and Liokaiser) in Combiner Wars, so why not G2 Defensor? Not even a PEEP about him ever being planned or thought about.

I think they might be holding back G2 Defensor for later for some reason.
Perhaps as a Comic show exclusive or to sell at their new convention.

Though there is the issue of what to do about Rook/groove that may have had them thinking it wasn't worth the grief over people complaining about not getting something they think they should be it a Rook & Chest Plate Groove or getting Deluxe Groove then not getting the chest plate.

Personally I'd rather have G2 Rook & Legends Groove and then get the Groove G2 Deluxe later in a vs pack of some kind.

Perhaps G2 Groove vs G2 Off Road.
Also G2 Alpha Bravo Vs G2 Shuttle Blast Off.

Bounti76 wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

Bounti76 wrote:Only ended up going for $10,700. Almost a full $10,000 less than the last set seen. I think the difference was that the previous set had stickers applied, and was bagged.

I still wonder why I've never seen a G2 Defensor up for auction on eBay. I've been back into collecting for almost a decade and have seen less than a handful of individual G2 Protectobots up for auction.

Probably has to do with what Scotty said, there's more G2 Stunticons out there than we first thought.

There may very well be many more G2 Stunticon sets than first thought. But that still doesn't explain my main question: Why are the G2 Protectobots so rare as to be almost nonexistent? I've seen a G2 Blades or two, a G2 Streetwise or two, and one G2 Groove, and that's IT. Never a G2 Hot Spot or G2 First Aid up. And never as a complete set.

My secondary questions are: Would Hasbro ever reissue/produce the G2 Stunticons and Protectobots in G2 colors? And beast combiners aside, we have gotten EVERY single G1 combiner ever released and then some (G2 Menasor and Liokaiser) in Combiner Wars, so why not G2 Defensor? Not even a PEEP about him ever being planned or thought about.

The Stunticons were probably further along so more prototypes were made, or people liked cars more. I feel G2 Defensor will not happen due to the fact most stores can't give away their G2 box sets.

I feel G2 Defensor will not happen due to the fact most stores can't give away their G2 box sets.

Huh. Only box set I've ever seen in a store is one Menasor in a TJ Maxx about 2 weeks ago.

The only G2 set I really would consider would be Superion, I like the blue and silver redoco on the two leg bots. I'd probably give them to Ultra Prime, though.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:The Stunticons were probably further along so more prototypes were made, or people liked cars more. I feel G2 Defensor will not happen due to the fact most stores can't give away their G2 box sets.

Yep. Liokaiser's probably it for those sets.

I got flak for saying something about things not happening when everyone waits for clearance sales, but it wasn't wrong. The fandom sent a clear message to Hasbro with the CW box sets, and that was "we love these but we don't want to pay for these". No intention to debate that point in one way or another, just pointing out that if a G2 Defensor doesn't happen, the reason seems easy to find.

To me, the biggest reason that there hasn't yet been a G2 Defensor Collection Pack yet is because of how Hasbro did Groove.

For Superion and Menasor, they originally removed Slingshot and Wildrider, replacing them with Alpha Bravo and Offroad before eventually doing the two as the May Mayhem exclusives Quickslinger and Brake-Neck. Then, when they did the G2 Collection Packs, they put back in the original members who were previously removed and replaced.

For Defensor, however, they did not completely remove Groove from the combiner. They replaced him as a limb with Rook, but still kept Groove as a Legends class component. After Takara did their Unite Warriors Deluxe Groove, Hasbro eventually imported that figure into the CW toyline as another May Mayhem exclusive, but which they advertised as a component of the then-contemporary Sky Reign combiner, who also happened to be the one complete-team CW combiner who did not have a designated Legends class component (regardless of any possible plans for Wreck-Gar to be Sky Reign's Legends component that might have been dropped).

Speaking of Legends class components, that too is likely a factor in why G2 Defensor hasn't happened yet. So far, every CW Collection Pack has contain a complete-team combiner made up of six components: 1 Voyager, 4 Deluxes, and 1 Legends (we can presume that the Scrounge and Cybaxx that come with Computron count as a single Legends set in Hasbro's eyes much like how the original Cosmos w/ Payload did). For Superion and Menasor, their Collection Packs not only put back in their original team members, but also included the new Legends class members Powerglide and Backjack.

For Defensor, because Legends Groove was not a new member, if Hasbro tried to put him back as a limb like they did for Quickslinger and Brake-Neck, that would render the Legends Groove toy redundant, making there be two Grooves in the set. Hasbro likely wants to avoid having two of the same guy in each set, and also likely would want to avoid creating new characters for the G2 sets that weren't already released as G1 versions in the mass retail line. Therefore, if they used the Deluxe Groove mold as a limb like they did with Quickslinger and Brake-Neck, that would leave G2 Defensor without a Legends class component, which would go against the trend that Hasbro had established for the Collection Packs. But if they were to keep Legends Groove as Groove, then there would either be two Grooves or a need for a different non-Groove limb, which also goes agaist the established trend of the Collection Pack using the original limb characters properly.

Hasbro likely wants to maintain consistency across the board in how they handle these CW Collection Packs, but the presence of two different toys that each serve the necessary purpose of their respective size classes being the same single character, who also happens to be an original teammate character, likely conflicts with Hasbro's desire for widespread consistency with the CW Collection Packs, thereby presenting an obstacle in their doing a G2 Defensor set.

^ That's all a logical line of thinking, but why couldn't they just throw it in Platinum with a random new weapon/Arms Micron/whatever like they did with Liokaiser?

ScottyP wrote:^ That's all a logical line of thinking, but why couldn't they just throw it in Platinum with a random new weapon/Arms Micron/whatever like they did with Liokaiser?

I could see the consistency argument working against that suggestion as well, since the other three G2 Collection Packs weren't Platinum Editions, they'd probably want a G2 Defensor set to follow in suit as a non-Platinum set rather than be the only CW G2 combiner to get the Platinum release treatment (especially considering how Platinums tend to have more exclusivity in their venues of release compared to the more wider-than-Platinum distribution that the non-Platinum CW Collection Packs have gotten).

^ I can see that being a thing, but it just seems too complicated. If they thought there was money to be made in making it, they'd make it.