The Energon Pub

megatronus wrote:

Skyfire77 wrote:

Cyberpath wrote:Meh. As of writing this, you can still preorder him from Japan for nearly half the price.

Not anymore. HLJ has an Order Stop on Exhaust.

Just a couple hours ago, the price was 5600 yen. Now it's 6500... looks like HLJ capitalized on the situation.

Just to clarify, when something goes into an order stop the price defaults back to the MSRP. If you look for it in a search you'll see the store price still listed. By the looks of it the price got down to ¥5,200 before the order stop.

Emerje

or a spring-loaded missile. Groan.

Yotsuyasan wrote:They also still have Exhaust himself listed, both with and without a collector's coin. (You can save $6.00 if you don't care about the coin.)

Not quite sure yet if this means Philip Moris's lawyers haven't noticed TFSource, and TFSource is hoping to fly under the radar (or may even be potentially unaware there is a radar to fly under), or if TFSource just hasn't gotten around to updating their listings yet. (It is the weekend, after all.) I suppose if the listings still exist by mid-week this upcoming week, we might hazard a guess as to the radar.

Well, I was curious to follow up on this post of mine, and it does look like these items are no longer listed... When I click on any of the links in the above post, all that loads up is just TFSorce's header, and a blank page underneath.

Ah, well. Not totally surprising. (And no skin off my teeth, I suppose, as I didn't intend to get Exhaust, anyway.) But anyway, to those who do want him, I'm sure there will still be ways.

couresy of actionrobo's facebook page, heres a little news on MP23.

Special Notice on TAKARA/TOMY "MASTERPIECE MP-23 EXHAUST"

Actionrobo was contacted by a law firm represent Philip Morris USA Inc. Informing us that the TAKARA/TOMY "MASTERPIECE MP-23 EXHAUST" figure infringes “Philip Morris USA Inc” trademark and such product cannot be sold in the USA.

To avoid further matter, listing on our website will be remove. All USA customers pre-ordered this figure will be refund.

We apologize for the inconvenience caused!!!

this is bad news, as actionrobo is HK based. i have an order with another overseas retailer, so i wonder what this will mean for us outside of the US (canada).

shajaki wrote:this is bad news, as actionrobo is HK based. i have an order with another overseas retailer, so i wonder what this will mean for us outside of the US (canada).

Well, if Phillip Morris's lawyers are specifically contacting retailers to tell them not to sell to the U.S., then I should think they should still be able to ship to Canada. And heck, you should probably order a few extra Exhausts while you're at it! If Philip Morris is even sending legal notices to foreign toy distributers, I suspect the bulk of U.S. fans wanting Exhaust may have to resort to private sellers offering it on eBay. (Probably with a lot of auctions that don't include photos!) Sell two or three of 'em at a slightly inflated price for your trouble, and you could probably cover the cost of your own Exhaust.

I'm gonna be so p*ssed if I can't get Exhaust from my Japanese retailer I normally use.

Just in the USA right? So the only recourse would be ebay for the American market?

fenrir72 wrote:Just in the USA right? So the only recourse would be ebay for the American market?

That's my guess, cause at least private sellers not selling large quantities <I>should</I> hopefully be able to squeak by Phillip Morris's lawyers.

Fellow Seibertron.com user shajaki brings us a minor update, which leaves the situation unfortunately unchanged, regarding Takara Tomy Transformers Masterpiece MP23 Exhaust and the legal issues surrounding its release. The ActionRobo Facebook page - retailer based in Hong Kong - has confirmed that they will also not be carrying the figure, due to a request from the Philip Morris legal department. See for yourself below.

Special Notice on TAKARA/TOMY "MASTERPIECE MP-23 EXHAUST"

Actionrobo was contacted by a law firm represent Philip Morris USA Inc. Informing us that the TAKARA/TOMY "MASTERPIECE MP-23 EXHAUST" figure infringes “Philip Morris USA Inc” trademark and such product cannot be sold in the USA.

To avoid further matter, listing on our website will be remove. All USA customers pre-ordered this figure will be refund.

We apologize for the inconvenience caused!!!

Looking at the PM Trademark logo for Marlboro and the Exhaust figure and how the marks are positioned, there is a very distinct difference. That would be the colored space relative to the white field ratio or position. The simple difference is that the colored angle portion on the PM logo is in the upper third of the cigarette box. More white in the lower 2/3's. The small green/white box on Exhaust has the green portion extended to the lower quarter. If you turn the Exhaust figure to have him look like a cigarette box, the red extends into the lower third. The ratios of color to white are different.

If Tak/Tomy wanted, they could go from an angular look to a more parabolic look to further differentiate similar to how Prowl's hood is designed or lust jutt in a bit on the fender portion and then angle in. The latter would satisfy the angular look of the original and PM has nothing they can say about it. And looking at the Exhaust figure, the white cuts back into the red field just above the numbers on the door. The symbols are NOT exact as the PM logo does not. Easily arguable.

Just sayin'

Tranzilla wrote:

Looking at the PM Trademark logo for Marlboro and the Exhaust figure and how the marks are positioned, there is a very distinct difference. That would be the colored space relative to the white field ratio or position. The simple difference is that the colored angle portion on the PM logo is in the upper third of the cigarette box. More white in the lower 2/3's. The small green/white box on Exhaust has the green portion extended to the lower quarter. If you turn the Exhaust figure to have him look like a cigarette box, the red extends into the lower third. The ratios of color to white are different.

If Tak/Tomy wanted, they could go from an angular look to a more parabolic look to further differentiate similar to how Prowl's hood is designed or lust jutt in a bit on the fender portion and then angle in. The latter would satisfy the angular look of the original and PM has nothing they can say about it. And looking at the Exhaust figure, the white cuts back into the red field just above the numbers on the door. The symbols are NOT exact as the PM logo does not. Easily arguable.

Just sayin'

If the issue is selling this to underage customers then use the Credit card identifying route. 18 to 19 years old up then it's legal. Just saying.........

Marlboro, like any other large corporation wants their money and will track you down all over the world.

fenrir72 wrote:If the issue is selling this to underage customers then use the Credit card identifying route. 18 to 19 years old up then it's legal. Just saying.........

From what I've read since this issue came to light, though, that may not be enough. It is still a product that, argue all we may that is it an "adult collectable," would be seen by the masses as a toy. And to these masses, toy = "For kids!" And the law seems vague enough that, even though technically Phillip Morris has nothing to do with this, if they allow a product to be sold with their iconography that, regardless of intent, could be perceived as being marketed to children, then they could be held liable and fined accordingly.

Blackstreak wrote:Marlboro, like any other large corporation wants their money and will track you down all over the world.

What money is Marlboro getting through this action?

Look a few pages back. We've largely concluded that this is a defensive action on Marlboro's part. Not an offensive one.

megatronus wrote:Look a few pages back. We've largely concluded that this is a defensive action on Marlboro's part. Not an offensive one.

Indeed! It isn't so much about getting more money, it is more a matter of not wishing to loose any of the money they already have.

Why not stick a decal on it stating M for "mature" or 18 up only? I'm giving the USA importers options to get around this stupid issue.

Sure hope this issue does not resurface for Jazz or Mirage.

dat head sculpt tho....

fenrir72 wrote:Why not stick a decal on it stating M for "mature" or 18 up only? I'm giving the USA importers options to get around this stupid issue.

Because, even if it has such a sticker on it, it doesn't change that it is still a Transformer, which is well known as a brand of children's toys. So it is still arguably actionable. "Well, your honor, this Playskool Busy Ball Popper may say 'For adults 18+' on it, but clearly it is actually intended for infants, so the fact that it has Benson & Hedges labels all over it is highly inappropriate!" Decent chance of a judge agreeing with that.

fenrir72 wrote:Sure hope this issue does not resurface for Jazz or Mirage.

Don't know why Jazz should be any issue, he has no tobacco branding on him, and I think the laws for alcohol are not quite as overreaching. As for Mirage, I think the tobacco company alluded to on him doesn't have a presence in America anyway, so there'd be no one to take action against. Thus, no one to prevent sales of it to U.S. customers. (If I am incorrect on that, if someone who knows better wishes to correct me, be my guest.)

In any case, as has previously been talked about in this thread at length (did you read anything that came before, or did you just jump to the end to throw in your two cents?) the branding on both Jazz and Mirage isn't quite as integral to their basic look. (Without the "Martini" or "Gitanes" logos, you'd still be able to tell who they are, unlike Exhaust who rather needs that distinctive red pattern on him to be Exhaust.) So it is always possible they could get domestic releases, and Reprolabels could step in to fix any omissions.

Anyone know if Robotkingdom still intends to honor US preorders?

Soooooo, about that recolor option I suggested...

Too bad they didn't consider this ahead of time, but whatev.

Wolfguard wrote:Soooooo, about that recolor option I suggested...

It's already coming out as it is. You seriously expect Hasbro even consider releasing this thing in the U.S., recolored or otherwise?

This is starting to get a little bit ridiculous. I feel like if this keeps up with various retailers TakaraTomy may step in to defend why it's different enough to get by.

Yotsuyasan wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Why not stick a decal on it stating M for "mature" or 18 up only? I'm giving the USA importers options to get around this stupid issue.

Because, even if it has such a sticker on it, it doesn't change that it is still a Transformer, which is well known as a brand of children's toys. So it is still arguably actionable. "Well, your honor, this Playskool Busy Ball Popper may say 'For adults 18+' on it, but clearly it is actually intended for infants, so the fact that it has Benson & Hedges labels all over it is highly inappropriate!" Decent chance of a judge agreeing with that.

fenrir72 wrote:Sure hope this issue does not resurface for Jazz or Mirage.

Don't know why Jazz should be any issue, he has no tobacco branding on him, and I think the laws for alcohol are not quite as overreaching. As for Mirage, I think the tobacco company alluded to on him doesn't have a presence in America anyway, so there'd be no one to take action against. Thus, no one to prevent sales of it to U.S. customers. (If I am incorrect on that, if someone who knows better wishes to correct me, be my guest.)

In any case, as has previously been talked about in this thread at length (did you read anything that came before, or did you just jump to the end to throw in your two cents?) the branding on both Jazz and Mirage isn't quite as integral to their basic look. (Without the "Martini" or "Gitanes" logos, you'd still be able to tell who they are, unlike Exhaust who rather needs that distinctive red pattern on him to be Exhaust.) So it is always possible they could get domestic releases, and Reprolabels could step in to fix any omissions.

No. I didn't just jump in as I know that the orange angles of not Malboor indeed makes Exhaust well............Exhaust. I'm looking at this issue at a wider perspective if selling tobacco and alcohol endorsement products applies to future MP realistic decos.

It may just be your "opinion" about recognizing Jazz and Mirage without those alcohol and tobacco endorsements from the original inspiration vehicles that Diaclone/Transformers used. On my side, I feel Jazz might escape the "Martini" logo but he is very iconic with the royal blue, red stripe and dark blue back ground paterns of Martini. See how his binaltech release looked like an anemic and generic bot?

Gitanes' gypsie girl logo plus the F1 Elf makes Mirage Mirage. As for the former not having a strong presence in the USA, never underestimate an "ambulance chaser" chance to raise some issue to earn a fast buck.

Now back to my reference to proper labeling. A decal stating as an adult only item may more than suffice but given how legally taxing this might importers, it may not be worth all the trouble at all to contest this in court. And those two logos in green located on the hood aside from the main orange pattern is indeed troublesome.

Again, I am posting a potential remedy for any importers are hoping to get around this.

1. In adult anime dvd cases. Some companies either digitally edit off the "details" and/or stick a big yellow and black stripes FOR ADULTS decal on the covers. Will this add to extra costs?

2. Go for the MP-05 route, instead of orange caping, open the box and cover it (the not Malboor patterns) with a smiley decal or whatever that won't damage the product. If adhesive decals might damage the colors, why not a Glad wrap like wraping with a big smiley covering the patterns. The purchaser will do the removal of the wrapping like the same whn you take off the orange cap on MP-05.

3. This product, clearly an adult collectible. How did this company (kyoshu) get around this issue?





This is more or less a homage to Malboor.....Malboro. And yet this site can sell this without incident

http://www.diecast-toys.com/allproducts ... cat_id=149

Since not everyone is seeing the clear picture, let me lay it out, one step at a time:

1.) It's not the design itself that the company has a problem with, rather the sale of that particular item in the US. US regulations are explicitly against any form of tobacco branding on any particular toy sold inside the US.

2.) TakaraTomy is first and foremost a toy company, no matter how you slice it. As such, any product made by that company is legally considered a toy, no matter the age range,

3.) As the regulations affect any item sold inside the US (or even to US customers, somebody help me on that), Exhaust can not be sold inside the US. That includes online stores operating from within the US, no matter where they import stock from.

4.) This only affects the US, Japan and other countries have their own regulations (similar or not) for products of such nature.

Any more questions? No, I don't know in what legal category model cars fall under.

fenrir72 wrote:It may just be your "opinion" about recognizing Jazz and Mirage without those alcohol and tobacco endorsements from the original inspiration vehicles that Diaclone/Transformers used. On my side, I feel Jazz might escape the "Martini" logo but he is very iconic with the royal blue, red stripe and dark blue back ground paterns of Martini. See how his binaltech release looked like an anemic and generic bot?

Gitanes' gypsie girl logo plus the F1 Elf makes Mirage Mirage. As for the former not having a strong presence in the USA, never underestimate an "ambulance chaser" chance to raise some issue to earn a fast buck.

Obviously then, since this toy has no Martini markings:



And this toy has no Citanes markings:



...then you have absolutely no idea who these two characters are then, right? They are absolutely unidentifiable as Jazz or Mirage, and are thus the worst toys ever! Pardon me, I must throw mine out immediately.

(Well, maybe not my Jazz...)



(Thanks, Reprolabels!)

If Takara makes these characters, I am sure they will have all of the appropriate markings. And at the very least, Jazz should have no problems with importers, since the laws in question here apply to tobacco, not alcohol. So I don't know why we are even discussing Jazz.

If Takara makes a Mirage, I suppose it is hypothetically possible this problem might rear its head again. I doubt it, as I still think Gitanes, as a company without a US presence (that I know of) would have no reason to object to their sale. (Thus, who exactly would your hypothetical ambulance chaser be going after? There'd be no one for him to sue in a US court of law.) But a hypothetical Hasbro release might still be possible, because I think most people (obviously with you as an exception) will still recognize him as Mirage without the Citanes marking.

Exhaust, on the other hand, needs the distinctive red patch to look like Exhaust. So he has problems that Mirage and Jazz wouldn't.

Anyway, isn't this all rather academic at best? Until such time as Takara actually produces either character in the Masterpiece line, if they even ever do so, and then once we can see what details are included on their decos, is there even a point in arguing any of this?