The Energon Pub

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:12 pm**

Back when 20th anniversary Prime was released in 2004, we had no idea what it would start in terms of the MP line. Back then, Alternators and Binaltechs were also being released, and I collected them to go with the 1st MP figure, Optimus Prime. They kinda went together as far as scale, and the alt modes for Alternators and BTs were very realistic, even though robot mode suffered a bit because of it. But at the time, they were considered very detailed and top-of-the-line engineering, before the MP line blew up. Now, 12 years later, what are your thoughts on the comparisons between the 2 lines? Obviously, most if not all of us will say MPs are superior, due to their engineering being based on the animation models. So they're more accurate. But does that necessarily diminish the playability/collection value of the BTs/Alternators? Or do you still consider them a rather impressive addition to the toy-facet of the franchise, as well as your own collection, if you did collect the BTs/Alternators?

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:42 pm**

Binaltech was a great experiment. Modernized die-cast figures of out fave TFs. Just imagining if Takara instead implemented their actually show vehicle and figure iteration.

Though I think it would be an impossibility given that the driver seats were also included which occupied space.

What I really hated was how the darn paint easily flakes off.

Prowl and Jazz were my faves!

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:02 pm**

I still consider Binaltech very impressive. My favourite Transfomrers toy is still the Binaltech Overdride mold. It just fits my idea of a perfect transformer. That engineering is still top notch and I love how this whole line is a perfect reinvention of the Diaclone concept which was having these transforming cars be able to stand side by side non transforming vehicles and fit right in. Its a perfect homage to the idea and doing new things with it. The MP line is perfectly fine, but it s now only about doing that old stuff. Its all older 80s cars. The binaltech line is still always fresh in that aspect since they were trying to do something of the moment.

And some of these toys still work well as MP versions of characters. I will be honest and say that I didnt like the feet on the jazz mold and I dont like Shockwave as an alternator, but Hound and Overdride are still there for me. And while MP tracks looks more like his cartoon model than any other version, I actually preffer the Alternators Tracks as a toy. It has less problems for me. It might be tougher to transform but its far more solid and enjoyable to hold and play with.

In the end I think both lines have a nice place in TF history and both have their merrits. Oh one more thing, thanks to the alternators/BT line, you have a place to put the MP 03 seeker jets, since they look more like real life planes in alt mode and fit that line better than the MP line which now has the redone seeker instead.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:35 pm**

Not to sound too nitpicky, but I don't believe there was a toy called Override either from the Binaltech line nor the Alternators line.

If you are referring to the Honda S2000 mold, he was Windcharger for Alternators, and OverDrive
for Binaltech.

The concept was good in my view, it had great vehicle modes of course, but some of those transformations were so fiddly and complex, as to suck all the enjoyment out of them. Prime/Dodge RAM SRT pickup, Wheeljack/Grimlock/ Ford Mustang, Ravage (not Battle Ravage) Jaguar,

I do still have Hound, which is one of the better figures all around.

Grimlock / Mustang which has the most cumbersome, annoying transformation ever. Those arms can give you nightmares really,

Sideswipe / Dodge Viper, also one of the better molds and transformations along with Hound, though the end product isn't as good as Hound's robot mode which is almost perfect.

and Silverstreak, which simply will not stay together in his Imprezza Mode at all.

I'm looking to get Tracks, to put in my character shelf, with Reveal the Shield TurboTracks, G1 Tracks, and MP Tracks. He looks pretty cool in car mode at least.

Ohh, SDCC Rodimus to add to my siggy now.

I think it was a good concept, that sadly probably died an early death due to the difficulty in securing rights to the actual vehicle models, and the fact that many of the robot modes suffered a bit to accommodate the accurate vehicle alt modes, with detailed interiors and all.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:45 pm**

Overcracker wrote:
I think it was a good concept, that sadly probably died an early death due to the difficulty in securing rights to the actual vehicle models, and the fact that many of the robot modes suffered a bit to accommodate the accurate vehicle alt modes, with detailed interiors and all.

Thanks, it is indeed Overdrive I was talking about. And while they had trouvle getting the volkswagon license, licensing is not why it died. It just didnt do well in the states and the lack of sales and enthusiasm made Hasbro not bother doing more. Takara kept doing some (like Arcee) and then brought it back for Kissplayers and then kept it going with the alternity line which then got a further subline with the GT series. So its all about popularity and sales.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:10 pm**

I don't compare them. Back in the day you could, but now days they're both their own distinct lines.

I will always like Alt/BT. They're fantastic figures in both modes.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:15 pm**

Burn wrote:I don't compare them.

Burn wrote:I picked up MP Tracks from the Post Office today.

meh, Binaltech is better.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:24 pm**

william-james88 wrote:
Burn wrote:I don't compare them.

Burn wrote:I picked up MP Tracks from the Post Office today.

meh, Binaltech is better.

That's not a direct comparison. But whatever. I have better things to do than justify myself.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:00 am**

Burn wrote:I don't compare them. Back in the day you could, but now days they're both their own distinct lines.

I will always like Alt/BT. They're fantastic figures in both modes.

Especially the Bt Smokescreen (sorry Jazz, the Mazda, though great doesn't hold a candle to the original Porsche....darn hypocritical Porsche/VW)!

Excellent reality to toy translation of the Subaru rally car!

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:07 am**

fenrir72 wrote:
Burn wrote:I don't compare them. Back in the day you could, but now days they're both their own distinct lines.

I will always like Alt/BT. They're fantastic figures in both modes.

Especially the Bt Smokescreen (sorry Jazz, the Mazda, though great doesn't hold a candle to the original Porsche....darn hypocritical Porsche/VW)! Excellent reality to toy translation of the Subaru rally car!

Yeah, and he was the first figure and really set the bar high. Incredibly fun simplistic transformation that produced a damn good looking robot. So damn good we completely ignored the fact he looked NOTHING like his G1 incarnation! :lol:

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:10 am**

Burn wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:
Burn wrote:I don't compare them. Back in the day you could, but now days they're both their own distinct lines.

I will always like Alt/BT. They're fantastic figures in both modes.

Especially the Bt Smokescreen (sorry Jazz, the Mazda, though great doesn't hold a candle to the original Porsche....darn hypocritical Porsche/VW)! Excellent reality to toy translation of the Subaru rally car!

Yeah, and he was the first figure and really set the bar high. Incredibly fun simplistic transformation that produced a damn good looking robot. So damn good we completely ignored the fact he looked NOTHING like his G1 incarnation!

Yeah! No one complained about diapers or hip panels back then. Same with WJ too.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:13 am**

fenrir72 wrote:
Burn wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:
Burn wrote:I don't compare them. Back in the day you could, but now days they're both their own distinct lines.

I will always like Alt/BT. They're fantastic figures in both modes.

Especially the Bt Smokescreen (sorry Jazz, the Mazda, though great doesn't hold a candle to the original Porsche....darn hypocritical Porsche/VW)! Excellent reality to toy translation of the Subaru rally car!

Yeah, and he was the first figure and really set the bar high. Incredibly fun simplistic transformation that produced a damn good looking robot. So damn good we completely ignored the fact he looked NOTHING like his G1 incarnation!

Yeah! No one complained about diapers or hip panels back then. Same with WJ too.

Oh I can complain about the WJ/Grimlock mold. That was a frustrating bastard with the hip having three bloody joints and I often have to remove all this panels just to transform him!

Good figure in both modes, but one of the most frustrating Transformers ever to transform.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:15 am**

Burn wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:
Burn wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:
Burn wrote:I don't compare them. Back in the day you could, but now days they're both their own distinct lines.

I will always like Alt/BT. They're fantastic figures in both modes.

Especially the Bt Smokescreen (sorry Jazz, the Mazda, though great doesn't hold a candle to the original Porsche....darn hypocritical Porsche/VW)! Excellent reality to toy translation of the Subaru rally car!

Yeah, and he was the first figure and really set the bar high. Incredibly fun simplistic transformation that produced a damn good looking robot. So damn good we completely ignored the fact he looked NOTHING like his G1 incarnation!

Yeah! No one complained about diapers or hip panels back then. Same with WJ too.

Oh I can complain about the WJ/Grimlock mold. That was a frustrating bastard with the hip having three bloody joints and I often have to remove all this panels just to transform him!

Good figure in both modes, but one of the most frustrating Transformers ever to transform.

Oopsie. I meant MP WJ. Who some complained to be not too MP enough.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:23 am**

fenrir72 wrote:Oopsie. I meant MP WJ. Who some complained to be not too MP enough.

I dont see how he can be any more MP. He is my reference for the entire MP line.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:43 am**

fenrir72 wrote:
Yeah! No one complained about diapers or hip panels back then. Same with WJ too.

Probably, because diaper waists were not something BTs were known to suffer from. Pretty clean waists and crotches on most molds. And many of them had panel free ball jointed hips.

I think the most cumbersome in terms of hips and their transformation was the Ford GT and Dodge Viper molds.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:56 pm**

fenrir72 wrote:Oopsie. I meant MP WJ. Who some complained to be not too MP enough.

You're going to make me go up the ladder and get him off the top shelf and have a play with him so I post my thoughts about him aren't you? :-P

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:56 pm**

Alternators look great, if not strictly like the G1 counterparts, but man, the two I have are a pain to transform compared to most other TF toys.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:15 pm**

Alt/BT vs MP? Unfair comparison in my opinion. Different time, different place.

On its own, the Alt/BT line was glorious. My favorite mold was easily the GT, followed by the Subaru. Out of those two, probably Silverstreak and Kiss Rodimus. In my mind, they were engineering marvels back then and still are today. The current MP line shouldn't take any of that away from them. Sure they don't have the refinement of the newer MP's, but that's like damning G1 for not having the posability of BW figures.

And newer doesn't always mean better. I hold all my Alt/Bt's in higher regard than the Alternity's I've handled. Those are a nightmare in comparison. But I'd love to see another line of TF's based on current vehicles. And while I never completed my Alt/Bt collection, I do look forward to doing so some day

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:39 pm**

Burn wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:Oopsie. I meant MP WJ. Who some complained to be not too MP enough.

You're going to make me go up the ladder and get him off the top shelf and have a play with him so I post my thoughts about him aren't you?

But of course! :lol:

You really didn't get to WJ yet.

Excellent Italian cars just like the Countach!

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:41 pm**

william-james88 wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:Oopsie. I meant MP WJ. Who some complained to be not too MP enough.

I dont see how he can be any more MP. He is my reference for the entire MP line.

Not you wj88. I'm 100% in agreement with you on the Lancia mold. Car wise, almost to a T accurate like the model car releases. Only missing is the driver's compartment which of course is impossible to implement. Robot mode? :BOWDOWN:

though surprisingly, I prefer Exhaust over WJ in robot mode.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:45 pm**

shajaki wrote:Alt/BT vs MP? Unfair comparison in my opinion. Different time, different place.

On its own, the Alt/BT line was glorious. My favorite mold was easily the GT, followed by the Subaru. Out of those two, probably Silverstreak and Kiss Rodimus. In my mind, they were engineering marvels back then and still are today. The current MP line shouldn't take any of that away from them. Sure they don't have the refinement of the newer MP's, but that's like damning G1 for not having the posability of BW figures.

And newer doesn't always mean better. I hold all my Alt/Bt's in higher regard than the Alternity's I've handled. Those are a nightmare in comparison. But I'd love to see another line of TF's based on current vehicles. And while I never completed my Alt/Bt collection, I do look forward to doing so some day

The KISSPLayer Hotrodimus especially with the fishing rod and steamed meat buns? Despite being at the tail end was also an engineering marvel for it's time. Prowl too was the best "pr1ck" petanko version after the Datsun oppai version.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:47 pm**

Overcracker wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:
Yeah! No one complained about diapers or hip panels back then. Same with WJ too.

Probably, because diaper waists were not something BTs were known to suffer from. Pretty clean waists and crotches on most molds. And many of them had panel free ball jointed hips.

I think the most cumbersome in terms of hips and their transformation was the Ford GT and Dodge Viper molds.

The diaper more or less approximates his appearance in the anime. Annnnnnnnnnd, they fold up to allow articulation. Even the panel that folds up is a stroke of genius. The folding gaps are so narrow that at first glance, you won't know it even folds up.

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