The Energon Pub

I'm working under the premise from what I've been reading here that it's just a matter of when given that Trypticon is coming to town maybe June 2017.

The original, which I don't own is a weird color collage



Whoever though of that scheme is really waaaaaaay out there. So best we can assume from the result of Trypticon, he will retain most of his original appearance. How big his head will turn out or how tall he'll be will also be another matter of contention.

Will Hb/Takara again recycle parts from the Metroplex mold? Sometimes, their business decisions baffles me. Metroplex was all original. The good guy. Fortmax, even more popular. Good guy. But composed of at least 20% to 25% Metroplex parts.

Then comes Trypticon. Bad guy. Sporting an entirely specific mold. What the? ( not to mention he also got a G1 re-issue release a few months back but no Metroplex )

Again, very hard to phantom their market focus. Was that primarily for the Asian market (I did see a few at TRU)?

Back to Scorponok. One thing that ticked of many G1 fans was the half azz City mode of TR Fortmax. I wouldn't even call it a fortress mode at all.



Like were they recreating this?



But given how G1 Scorponok's city mode looking like this


and Fortmax like this



with a few minor adjustment of lifting the arms and adding a ramp on his crotch, the are near carbon copies in transformation steps.

Given how TR Scourge and Highbrow iirc also is said to have shared tooling though not very overt like Blurr and Brainstorm, is it possible that Hb/Takara will do the same to Scorponok the same to what they did to Fortress Maximus?

If that is the case, I sincerely hope this will be a better job.

I speculate that he will be... the G1 toy but bigger and with more articulation and less accessories. Given that that's what all the Titans have been so far.

The most interesting question here - and it is rather interesting - is the matter of the head, considering the original was a normal-sized Headmaster but for this that obviously can't be the case. Would it be a Double Headmaster like Emissary/Cerebros/Fort Max? In the case, what would the bigger robot look like if Zarak made up the smallest stage? Or would the bigger robot be Zarak himself, enlarged from normal Headmaster status to being between Deluxe and Voyager? In that case would there be a need for it to be a Double Headmaster? So many questions.

Also, I'm not quite getting your bad guy/good guy thing. They were able to repurpose a lot of Metroplex into Fort Max but obviously weren't able to repurpose anything into Trypticon, so he's the one that got the new mold. Not quite sure how good guy/bad guy factors into that.

^ "Bad Guy" characters sell worse, so it was surprising to see Trypticon get a completely new mold when Fort Max, a "Good Guy" toy, did not

I'm sure we'll see a Scorponok unless Trypticon somehow completely bombs sales wise. That's not something I'd predict as likely, they seem to have their numbers down well for these large figures.

Problem is, how do you work the scorpion parts in? He'd need a new torso to accommodate the scorpion legs and tale and remove Fort Max's tower, new legs to allow for the backwards 180 degree bend at the knees, and new arms for the claws. By the time you're done changing all of the essential things that make Scorponok who he is you may as well just start over from scratch. Same goes for the theory of them using Trypticon as the base, by the time you're done making enough changes to make a convincing Scorponok you've replaced all of the original parts. As much as people dislike Fort Max he isn't the worst thing that could have come from redesigning him from another figure with a base and city mode. Scorponok is literally a different type of creature. They'll most likely use that mold for scale and proportion references, but that's all.

(edit)

Kurona wrote:The most interesting question here - and it is rather interesting - is the matter of the head, considering the original was a normal-sized Headmaster but for this that obviously can't be the case. Would it be a Double Headmaster like Emissary/Cerebros/Fort Max? In the case, what would the bigger robot look like if Zarak made up the smallest stage? Or would the bigger robot be Zarak himself, enlarged from normal Headmaster status to being between Deluxe and Voyager? In that case would there be a need for it to be a Double Headmaster? So many questions.

You might be forgetting something: scorpion mode needs a head, too. They can't make Scorponok's entire head the robot because then the scorpion will be headless. I think what w'll see is something like Leader class heads where the transforming head will be somewhere between Legend and Deluxe, smaller than Cerebros at least, and go inside a helmet that does double duties as both part of the bot head and the entire scorpion head ala G1.

Emerje

Well considering they took a Lion:


and turned it into a Jet:




which required altering 70 to 80% of the figure to accomplish,

I can totally see them turning a dinosaur into a scorpion and replacing 60 to 80% of Trypticon to accommodate a scorpion mode.

More so if you consider how Trypticon actually transforms into his base mode.

Overcracker wrote:Well considering they took a Lion:


and turned it into a Jet:




which required altering 70 to 80% of the figure to accomplish,

I can totally see them turning a dinosaur into a scorpion and replacing 60 to 80% of Trypticon to accommodate a scorpion mode.

A scorpion mode AND a humanoid bot mode, two things Trypticon doesn't have, not just one like your example. Doesn't seem likely.

Emerje

Still, if titans return has showed anything, is that they can go really really far with retools now.

They took Scourge and gave us Highbrow.

I think they can alter Tripty enough to get a scorpion and humanoid out of him.

Kurona wrote:I speculate that he will be... the G1 toy but bigger and with more articulation and less accessories. Given that that's what all the Titans have been so far.

The most interesting question here - and it is rather interesting - is the matter of the head, considering the original was a normal-sized Headmaster but for this that obviously can't be the case. Would it be a Double Headmaster like Emissary/Cerebros/Fort Max? In the case, what would the bigger robot look like if Zarak made up the smallest stage? Or would the bigger robot be Zarak himself, enlarged from normal Headmaster status to being between Deluxe and Voyager? In that case would there be a need for it to be a Double Headmaster? So many questions.

Also, I'm not quite getting your bad guy/good guy thing. They were able to repurpose a lot of Metroplex into Fort Max but obviously weren't able to repurpose anything into Trypticon, so he's the one that got the new mold. Not quite sure how good guy/bad guy factors into that.

Bad guys usually don't sell as much as the good guys. That trend may be changing but iirc, back in the G1 days, Optimus, though expensive continued to be on the shelves way past their wave release. or their being popular.

Even in Japan, the bad guys are a hard sell unless you are like the Char Aznable type.

Related front to your query, does seibertron's staff have any idea if the recent G1 re-issue Trypticon sold well or bombed? Same with Metroplex and Fortmax. Access to actual sales figures etc

Also, measuring success vs bombing, is a fig considered a success if sold full price off inventory or sold at a sale? is the a percentage cut off level to consider such?

That part of the Scorpion head is also a great point to ponder.

In the Sunbow version, Zarak mass shifts. In the Toei version, his size was everywhere. Sometimes the size of the Destron headmaster's transtectors sometimes...well you get my drift. I wonder they'll pull it off this time.

fenrir72 wrote:Related front to your query, does seibertron's staff have any idea if the recent G1 re-issue Trypticon sold well or bombed? Same with Metroplex and Fortmax. Access to actual sales figures etc

I can say for sure that Hasbro doesn't give out that kind of information unless they either have to or they're bragging. At most you'll get sales figures for the entire franchise from investor meetings, but not for individual figures. If you're lucky enough to corner them at a convention they might tell you if something sold well or not, but no hard numbers.

Also, measuring success vs bombing, is a fig considered a success if sold full price off inventory or sold at a sale? is the a percentage cut off level to consider such?

The primary concern is how much stores are ordering and if things go to clearance. Hasbro gets paid the same no matter how much a store sells them for so sales aren't a concern, that's an incentive to get people into a store.

Emerje

Are we sure there's even going to be a Scorpinok (or Omega Supereme, another I see people just assume will happen soon)? We only have Trypticon because of a poll, so it wasn't as if it was planned.

Anyhow: speculation! I can't see how they can retool Metroplex of Fort Max into Scorpinok. And I hope they don't. Max is pretty disappointing. He needs some add-ons to make him a little less Metroplex and a little more Fort Max.

I agree with the notion that he'll be like G1, except bigger with less accessories. And disappointingly smaller than Metroplex.

I do hope we'll get him. It'd be a shame if Max went on without his nemesis.

Overcracker wrote:Well considering they took a Lion:


and turned it into a Jet:

BURN IT WITH FIRE!

They should be ashamed of themselves. That has to be one of the top 5 worst modern TF jets.

Just thinking about what accessories they'd likely remove from Scorponok. Gun and shield seem most likely. I wonder if they'd include Fasttrack? Sure, Max didn't come with Cog, but we did get a proper Cerebro and "Spike", Metroplex got Scamper, and Trypticon got Full-Tilt (and "Wipeout"). I suppose they could just stop at Zarak, but who knows.

I think what they could do to add his city tower without the shield is do like Trypticon and have the tower on the inside of the chest door, either fold out or have the spikes pop out of the door.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Related front to your query, does seibertron's staff have any idea if the recent G1 re-issue Trypticon sold well or bombed? Same with Metroplex and Fortmax. Access to actual sales figures etc

I can say for sure that Hasbro doesn't give out that kind of information unless they either have to or they're bragging. At most you'll get sales figures for the entire franchise from investor meetings, but not for individual figures. If you're lucky enough to corner them at a convention they might tell you if something sold well or not, but no hard numbers.

Also, measuring success vs bombing, is a fig considered a success if sold full price off inventory or sold at a sale? is the a percentage cut off level to consider such?

The primary concern is how much stores are ordering and if things go to clearance. Hasbro gets paid the same no matter how much a store sells them for so sales aren't a concern, that's an incentive to get people into a store.

Emerje

How much the store sells them would /should concern Hb. If Hb sells them a toyline's worth let's say TR. At $ 1,000,000. Money in the bank for Hb. Then the store sells it with a mark up. If it flies like hotcakes then good. But if it doesn't move and the store has excess inventory then they will start selling them at sale levels or at a loss. Smart guess is that the store won't be supporting that dud of a toyline.

If only 10% of gets sold at a loss, I am assuming it's acceptable and that line will still have a new lease in the shelves but at what level will it be a loss?

Reason why I am hoping Trypticon regardless of versions sells well so a potential Scorponok will be a reality unlike the TFA Omega Supreme which was not released.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Are we sure there's even going to be a Scorpinok (or Omega Supereme, another I see people just assume will happen soon)? We only have Trypticon because of a poll, so it wasn't as if it was planned.

Anyhow: speculation! I can't see how they can retool Metroplex of Fort Max into Scorpinok. And I hope they don't. Max is pretty disappointing. He needs some add-ons to make him a little less Metroplex and a little more Fort Max.

I agree with the notion that he'll be like G1, except bigger with less accessories. And disappointingly smaller than Metroplex.

I do hope we'll get him. It'd be a shame if Max went on without his nemesis.

Overcracker wrote:Well considering they took a Lion:


and turned it into a Jet:

BURN IT WITH FIRE!

They should be ashamed of themselves. That has to be one of the top 5 worst modern TF jets.

Was the original G1 version any better?

Kurona wrote:The most interesting question here - and it is rather interesting - is the matter of the head, considering the original was a normal-sized Headmaster but for this that obviously can't be the case.

Or could it ... what if the Titan Master goes up inside the head? Brainmaster gimmick ...

Burn wrote:

Kurona wrote:The most interesting question here - and it is rather interesting - is the matter of the head, considering the original was a normal-sized Headmaster but for this that obviously can't be the case.

Or could it ... what if the Titan Master goes up inside the head? Brainmaster gimmick ...

That's a high possibility. Maybe an oversized version of the original Zarak but with a hm/tm.

Also, maybe the smaller head could incorporate Fasttrack like Trypticon's Full-tilt. I hope the Zarak shield won't be too hollow.

What if Fasttrack is the scorpion and robot mode helmet? And Zarak is a titan master who forms the head of Fasttrack?


We'll have to get a new mould for Scorpinok. He's too different to what we have. But he may be smaller than Max, but with the bigger bulk.

Overcracker wrote:Well considering they took a Lion:


and turned it into a Jet:

Except they didn't.
Alpha Trion and Broadside only share parts, not a mold. They're as much retools of each other as Blurr and Chromedome are.

Totally and completely forgot about the scorpion head... that's a lot of interesting possibilities for the head you guys are bringing up I didn't think of

I thought a hasbro rep confirmed they are very heavy retools?

Kurona wrote:

Overcracker wrote:Well considering they took a Lion:


and turned it into a Jet:

Except they didn't.
Alpha Trion and Broadside only share parts, not a mold. They're as much retools of each other as Blurr and Chromedome are.

They share retooled parts. You are splitting hairs. They took Alpha Trion and modified to such an exten to get a jet form what was previously a lion.

Of course they'll need to make new parts for Scorpy, no claws on Trypticon they can use and other things.

The point still stands, if they can take something that looks like a Lion use some parts from it, and turn it into a Jet, they can totally take some parts from a dinosaur, and turn it into a scorpion.

Obviously a straight retool is impossible. But parts sharing and retooling are just different levels of the same thing.

They could make Scorpinok from Fort Max or Trypticon. But they probably shouldn't.

I mean ... Broadside is pretty disappointing. And, yes, I find the G1 more successful. The jet mode isn't great, but ... it's better than the modern Broadside. Which is kinda sad.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:They could make Scorpinok from Fort Max or Trypticon. But they probably shouldn't.

I mean ... Broadside is pretty disappointing. And, yes, I find the G1 more successful. The jet mode isn't great, but ... it's better than the modern Broadside. Which is kinda sad.

I agree with all of this. And Scorponok makes sense as his own mold.

fenrir72 wrote:How much the store sells them would /should concern Hb. If Hb sells them a toyline's worth let's say TR. At $ 1,000,000. Money in the bank for Hb. Then the store sells it with a mark up. If it flies like hotcakes then good. But if it doesn't move and the store has excess inventory then they will start selling them at sale levels or at a loss. Smart guess is that the store won't be supporting that dud of a toyline.

You seem to have this strange concept that sale = poor when there's a number of reasons why items go on sale. Sometimes it's because a promotion was worked out with the manufacturer, sometimes it's because an item has proven popular enough that a sale will get people into the store to buy other things while they're there, and some times it's to temporarily move old stock to make room for new stock. Sales are always temporary and rarely used to clear out something that a store has discontinued, that's what clearance is for.

If only 10% of gets sold at a loss, I am assuming it's acceptable and that line will still have a new lease in the shelves but at what level will it be a loss?

You don't have to sell your entire inventory to make a profit, you just have to sell enough to make back more than you spent. If the profit margins are thin or sales are sluggish then there's little reason to order again. However, clearance doesn't always mean failure, it can also mean they overstocked and moved as much product as possible in a location, but still made a profit so they can afford the clearance.

Reason why I am hoping Trypticon regardless of versions sells well so a potential Scorponok will be a reality unlike the TFA Omega Supreme which was not released.

It's hard to say since most retailers in the US don't sell Titans anyway and ones that do and would sell them at a sharp discount do so as seasonal items and either get them after they've been on the market for a while (T.J.Maxx, Ross) or after they've been at full price for and clearance them out with their entire toy section (Costco). The only national brick and mortar retailer that stocks them as a regular product is Toys R Us. Online stores are hard to figure out since we can't get a good read on their stock like physical retailers. Prices at BBTS and TFSource haven't changed much for Max so I'd say they aren't very concerned. I'm thinking Hasbro will actually see a boost in sales with Trypticon since fewer people are saying they're buying the Takara Tomy version this time around. Plus kids love giant robot dinosaurs.

Overcracker wrote:They share retooled parts. You are splitting hairs. They took Alpha Trion and modified to such an exten to get a jet form what was previously a lion.

The parts aren't retooled, that would imply they took parts of Alpha Trion's mold and changed them to be something else. That's not how this works. Both figures are designed at the same time with parts created for both figures to share. Hasbro calling it a retool is really a misnomer, they're treating it as a catchall word, but fans have moved on to calling it the more accurate "parts sharing" since no parts are actually being retooled.

Also, while Alpha Trion makes a great looking lion, Broadside makes a terrible looking plain. It really isn't a good example of how Trypticon can be made into Scorponok.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:

Overcracker wrote:They share retooled parts. You are splitting hairs. They took Alpha Trion and modified to such an exten to get a jet form what was previously a lion.

The parts aren't retooled, that would imply they took parts of Alpha Trion's mold and changed them to be something else.

Which they did. They took the legs of Alpha Trion which had Lion Legs attached, and retooled them so they have airplane fins for Broadside:








Yes they could have totally done it at the same time, ie design the legs to have both lion legs and fins.

But its still in effect retooling the legs to have different parts.


I'm not saying its a 100% certainty they'll take parts from Trypticon and and use them for Scorponok, I'm just saying its possible based on what they've done before.

Does it make sense? No, but like Alpha Trion and Broadside have shown, they can engineer things to have different uses. So who's to say some parts of Trypticon where not already engineered to serve some purpose on Scorponok.

Emerje wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:How much the store sells them would /should concern Hb. If Hb sells them a toyline's worth let's say TR. At $ 1,000,000. Money in the bank for Hb. Then the store sells it with a mark up. If it flies like hotcakes then good. But if it doesn't move and the store has excess inventory then they will start selling them at sale levels or at a loss. Smart guess is that the store won't be supporting that dud of a toyline.

You seem to have this strange concept that sale = poor when there's a number of reasons why items go on sale. Sometimes it's because a promotion was worked out with the manufacturer, sometimes it's because an item has proven popular enough that a sale will get people into the store to buy other things while they're there, and some times it's to temporarily move old stock to make room for new stock. Sales are always temporary and rarely used to clear out something that a store has discontinued, that's what clearance is for.

If only 10% of gets sold at a loss, I am assuming it's acceptable and that line will still have a new lease in the shelves but at what level will it be a loss?

You don't have to sell your entire inventory to make a profit, you just have to sell enough to make back more than you spent. If the profit margins are thin or sales are sluggish then there's little reason to order again. However, clearance doesn't always mean failure, it can also mean they overstocked and moved as much product as possible in a location, but still made a profit so they can afford the clearance.

Reason why I am hoping Trypticon regardless of versions sells well so a potential Scorponok will be a reality unlike the TFA Omega Supreme which was not released.

It's hard to say since most retailers in the US don't sell Titans anyway and ones that do and would sell them at a sharp discount do so as seasonal items and either get them after they've been on the market for a while (T.J.Maxx, Ross) or after they've been at full price for and clearance them out with their entire toy section (Costco). The only national brick and mortar retailer that stocks them as a regular product is Toys R Us. Online stores are hard to figure out since we can't get a good read on their stock like physical retailers. Prices at BBTS and TFSource haven't changed much for Max so I'd say they aren't very concerned. I'm thinking Hasbro will actually see a boost in sales with Trypticon since fewer people are saying they're buying the Takara Tomy version this time around. Plus kids love giant robot dinosaurs.

Overcracker wrote:They share retooled parts. You are splitting hairs. They took Alpha Trion and modified to such an exten to get a jet form what was previously a lion.

The parts aren't retooled, that would imply they took parts of Alpha Trion's mold and changed them to be something else. That's not how this works. Both figures are designed at the same time with parts created for both figures to share. Hasbro calling it a retool is really a misnomer, they're treating it as a catchall word, but fans have moved on to calling it the more accurate "parts sharing" since no parts are actually being retooled.

Also, while Alpha Trion makes a great looking lion, Broadside makes a terrible looking plain. It really isn't a good example of how Trypticon can be made into Scorponok.

Emerje

Overstock is not a sign of loss? , well, it may be a sign of stupid distribution system but regardless, if there is High demand then all stocks will be sold out then or then?

Also, concerning online stores, little by little there are eating into the market share of the actual brick and mortal shops we all grew up with. Especially in the United States. How their sales figure will factor in the future is another matter.

In the end, all we collectors want is for the franchise not to die the way it did back in 1990. So like Hb, no more over producing of the yellow menace who shall not be named.